Guild Wars 2

I mainly WvW with a little Pve and was unsure which build to use… so I acquired 2 sets of gear (Zerk for power and Rabid for Condition) and came to share a few observations …

(These are my own opinions, and i’ll be the first to admit i’m no Pro gamer)

Power
Great fun to use as lB and wells do some great damage but still lacking compared to a GC Warrior/Thief for damage output.
One problem I had was that I have to rely too heavily on DS for LB as once that is gone, you have few options for escape/defence and are easily and quickly burst down.
1v1 was fun but 1v2 difficult due to limited DS force running out, although I found Power builds were great in small roaming gangs/Zergs.

Conditions
I was a little disappointed with conditions, both in WvW and PvE. Pve, works amazing as long as no-one else is there (or a few Warriors/Thieves)… Almost impossible to use for the invasion content due to the huge amount of conditions already on the mobs, making you little more than a bystander.
As for WvW, seems like it takes an age to apply any decent amount of bleeds which are then removed and you burst down – unless you get lucky with someone running no cond removals).

What are others experiences?

Nah, everyone can be berserker guys, but only necromancer have sweet thing called Epidemic. But conditions need buff in pve, true.

I love my condition necro. I have tried power and hybrid as well and always go back to conditions. I feel like i can do things with my condition build that will always send me back to a WP with the other builds. Epidemic is your best friend. Invasion content; 25 stacks of just about everything on the champ? Perfect, epidemic→25 stacks on everything else now as well. Spam area loot, Profit.

read the condition vs pve thread for more debate.

Epidemic is a joy button no other job has but it has no use outside of crowd control

Anchoku.8142:

read the condition vs pve thread for more debate.

Epidemic is a joy button no other job has but it has no use outside of crowd control

I sort of agree with you but you state this as if it is a weakness. I contend that when building a condition necro, you are explicitly choosing to build around the ability to handle multiple targets, and handle them very well i might add. When viewed in this light, your comment about epidemic having “no use outside of crowd control” is the same as saying that a bomb has no use outside of exploding…

BoogerSammich.7189:

I love my condition necro. I have tried power and hybrid as well and always go back to conditions. I feel like i can do things with my condition build that will always send me back to a WP with the other builds. Epidemic is your best friend. Invasion content; 25 stacks of just about everything on the champ? Perfect, epidemic->25 stacks on everything else now as well. Spam area loot, Profit.

Not everything, just 5 targets.

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

BoogerSammich.7189:

I love my condition necro. I have tried power and hybrid as well and always go back to conditions. I feel like i can do things with my condition build that will always send me back to a WP with the other builds. Epidemic is your best friend. Invasion content; 25 stacks of just about everything on the champ? Perfect, epidemic->25 stacks on everything else now as well. Spam area loot, Profit.

Not everything, just 5 targets.

Well yes, correct. But you get the point im sure ;-)

Budchgon.2108:

I mainly WvW with a little Pve and was unsure which build to use… so I acquired 2 sets of gear (Zerk for power and Rabid for Condition) and came to share a few observations …

(These are my own opinions, and i’ll be the first to admit i’m no Pro gamer)

Power
Great fun to use as lB and wells do some great damage but still lacking compared to a GC Warrior/Thief for damage output.

What are others experiences?

If you take your statement in bold above this is what people say about condition necros.

How everyone compares with the top dogs of direct damage like Warrior/thief (I would throw in S/D eles also) necro is the top dog of conditions only engineer comes close enough in comparision. Its not about only bleed stacking with necro thats what other classes do for necro you can if you want have access to every condition in the game and can manipulate those conditions.

I like power better. I have…

2,195 Power (3,135 att)
1,920 Toughness( 2,320) while channeling
and 1,820 vit (27,412 hp)

I never lose to condi necros unless its 1vx. I dont see why ppl wanna nerf condi necros. the ones ive faced are not that great.

Just want to add my 2 cents on the conditions for the invasions, don’t know about you but I have been doing them with 4 classes by pressing only auto attack, just get a staff and hit 1 and you will do just fine.

From my experience (I’m using a Blood magic Build) I got better result in small scale fight when I’m runing with condi gear while power gear work better in large scale battle.

That’s why I switch a lot and always keep my second gear with me. But I’m mostly running my power gear, In invasion I just have so much fun tanking these kitten mobs! If I could siphon on retal it would be awesome!

Mystogan.4157:

I like power better. I have…

2,195 Power (3,135 att)
1,920 Toughness( 2,320) while channeling
and 1,820 vit (27,412 hp)

I never lose to condi necros unless its 1vx. I dont see why ppl wanna nerf condi necros. the ones ive faced are not that great.

Power Necros are one of the best counters to a condition Necro (or any condition class) that’s kind of like Rock saying it thinks Scissors is weak.

I find that my condition build is a better 1v1 & 1vx dueler, but my power build (i run PVT gear) is better in team fights. Just personal play style honestly but condition Necros are by no means weak.

One of the few classes i feel like i can 1v1 guardians and eles with no problem.

I feel like with the right balance all classes that have condi remove can negate most condo builds. i found this with thieves and necros so far. i havent ventured on any other classes to far tho. the problem i have with my build mostly is hammer war staff med and axe war

BoogerSammich.7189:

When viewed in this light, your comment about epidemic having “no use outside of crowd control” is the same as saying that a bomb has no use outside of exploding…

Epidemic does zero damage to its target, unlike a bomb. It takes two to tango.

All I was trying to say is that epidemic can go from being indispensible to useless pretty quick as the combat environment changes from target-rich to a boss fight. That is the risk/reward system the developers follow. If it was useful all the time, it would probably be nerfed. However, in team play with a bunch of high single-target dps builds, an epidemic condition build can plug an important gap in capability.

Anchoku.8142:

BoogerSammich.7189:

When viewed in this light, your comment about epidemic having “no use outside of crowd control” is the same as saying that a bomb has no use outside of exploding…

Epidemic does zero damage to its target, unlike a bomb. It takes two to tango.

All I was trying to say is that epidemic can go from being indispensible to useless pretty quick as the combat environment changes from target-rich to a boss fight. That is the risk/reward system the developers follow. If it was useful all the time, it would probably be nerfed. However, in team play with a bunch of high single-target dps builds, an epidemic condition build can plug an important gap in capability.

There is some merit to this chain of thought, but I don’t think it will keep epidemic from getting hammered at some point in the future. The SPVP community seems determined to make sure that happens.

Condition necro without epidemic is an engineer without boons. But condition necro with epidemic is potentially a game breaking element. How do you balance those two polar ends of the spectrum?

One thing is for sure though, people have already forgotten what epidmemic used to be like. I will recap it here so everyone remembers:

1. It used to have no target cap (It could hit everyone in the epidemic area)
2. It used to not require LOS (you could epidemic through walls)
3. It had no range restriction (you could hit anyone you could see)
4. It was IMPOSSIBLE to avoid (dodging, invulnerable, whatever, you would be hit)

Of course much of that was patched early on (target cap and range). But the others were changed much more recently. Further nerfs to epidemic really are uncalled for, no matter how much people want them. The spell was grossly overpowered, WAS.

Anchoku.8142:

BoogerSammich.7189:

When viewed in this light, your comment about epidemic having “no use outside of crowd control” is the same as saying that a bomb has no use outside of exploding…

Epidemic does zero damage to its target, unlike a bomb. It takes two to tango.

All I was trying to say is that epidemic can go from being indispensible to useless pretty quick as the combat environment changes from target-rich to a boss fight. That is the risk/reward system the developers follow. If it was useful all the time, it would probably be nerfed. However, in team play with a bunch of high single-target dps builds, an epidemic condition build can plug an important gap in capability.

Ehh… kind of,

Epidemic is definitely more useful in fights with a lot of adds but it can be used to double up on or re apply conditions to your main target if there is more than one target.

Example would be a ranger and his pet, if you apply a lot of AoE conditions then switch to the pet and Epidemic the ranger will get those extra conditions.

Also on a boss fight you don’t really need all of your utility, what would you have in place of Epidemic? Plus a lot of boss fights have adds, or just 2 bosses.

I dare say Epidemic is the strongest utility in the game… at least in the top 10 (remember 15s cool down)

Condi necro has much higher (practical) damage in wvw, almost all of it is AOE, and epidemic is without question one of the best skills in the game, mainly due to it’s tiny CD. Keep in mind epidemic’ing just a handful of bleeds/other conditions gets a lot of AOE damage for that CD, so when you epi a full rapid necro’s AOE rotation (something like 15-18 bleeds, burning, 3 stacks of torment and confusion, 20s+ weakness, cripple, chill and poison, everything, save for the confusion being AOE) it is a *tad strong.

That said I still prefer power for solo roaming, where a necro can be the best build in the game to prevent enemy disengagement, whereas condi notably struggles if the enemy seriously tries to disengage; most don’t.

War Mourner.5168:

Condi necro has much higher (practical) damage in wvw, almost all of it is AOE, and epidemic is without question one of the best skills in the game, mainly due to it’s tiny CD. Keep in mind epidemic’ing just a handful of bleeds/other conditions gets a lot of AOE damage for that CD, so when you epi a full rapid necro’s AOE rotation (something like 15-18 bleeds, burning, 3 stacks of torment and confusion, 20s+ weakness, cripple, chill and poison, everything, save for the confusion being AOE) it is a *tad strong.

That said I still prefer power for solo roaming, where a necro can be the best build in the game to prevent enemy disengagement, whereas condi notably struggles if the enemy seriously tries to disengage; most don’t.

I have trouble with enemy disengagement as bolth specs, what do you do to prevent it?

Ultimately I have two moves for damage, dagger 1 and well of suffering. Every single other skill is either to better let you use those two, or to use when you using those two isn’t appropriate.

This means DS 2,3 and 5. Spectral grasp, constant swiftness and extremely high cripple uptime via horn 5 and Swalk, dag 3, horn 4, axe 3, focus 5 and glorious golem charge. All these skills help you keep on people extremely well (and of course is with 3 reduced CD traits, it simply doesn’t work without them).

then axe 2, focus 4, DS 1 and 4 are ranged damage for when melee is not viable.

While other classes can chase better (just get super sanic warrior), but you’ll struggle to find something that can hold things better, but seriously, without the lower CD’s on everything you simply can’t manage, simply looking at certain other classes escape CD’s.

I like both.

I havent played a power necro, but i feel that conditions is really powerful. It does well in large scale fights (beeing able to epidemic and AoE), but also really useful in 1v1s because of fear and crit procs. I also feel its pretty easy to solo a supply camp, which i had a very hard time trying with my power thief. (maybe power necros have it easier, idk)

It seems to me like a more “general purpose” build. I really only have to switch my utilities when going from solo roaming to group/zerg. It only does bad on raid bosses, were most of your conditions get overriden. But even then you can be helpful by Crowd Controlling minions. Im pretty sure that without condition necros, minions would be a bigger nuisance than they are (beeing able to epidemic minions with 25 bleed stacks and a bunch of other things make them melt like butter in a microwave).

Anchoku.8142:

BoogerSammich.7189:

When viewed in this light, your comment about epidemic having “no use outside of crowd control” is the same as saying that a bomb has no use outside of exploding…

Epidemic does zero damage to its target, unlike a bomb. It takes two to tango.

All I was trying to say is that epidemic can go from being indispensible to useless pretty quick as the combat environment changes from target-rich to a boss fight. That is the risk/reward system the developers follow. If it was useful all the time, it would probably be nerfed. However, in team play with a bunch of high single-target dps builds, an epidemic condition build can plug an important gap in capability.

the best boss where you can use EPIDEMIC is in Fractal Shaman, i love to see those kitteng worms in crying on theyr kitteng blood MUAHAHAH

For power: If you can somehow manage to use your cc skills effectively and build up some vuln+might, doing 6.5k on average at 1200 range with death shroud 1 auto attack is pretty good considering thief/ warrior have to close in on you first. If at first you dont succeed, use well of darkness. If that doesnt work, then panic and pop your elite and become a lich meanie.
For condi: requires extensive knowledge of the phenomenon known as cc. Spam weakness. It is your friend.
PS this is part no srs because youre right, necro is a lil underpowered

I was a condi necro for 11 months then suddenly changed to power necro for WvW/GvG reason.

Against organized guilds/zerg, conditions are easily being cleansed and it rarely last more than 5 seconds and the -condition duration from lemon grass soup and rune of melandru. If Necros can stack more condition and can stack fast like engineers, then they might be viable against organized guilds/zerg.

In PvE though, I got mixed feelings about power necro and condition necro, there are instances that one can do better than the other and vice versa.