Guild Wars 2

I may have asked this already but people always say condi necro beats power necro, any reasons why?

Power can beat condi. But you can’t let them get off heals and constant pressure so the condis dont eat you before you kill them. A decently skilled condi necro can win a battle if the power necro cannot pressure them enough.

If a condi necro gets off a fear spike the power necro is most likely dead. Because during a fear spike all other condis are laid on you, and you won’t recover in time to reset.

So to recap you need to get great intterupts, fears, warhorns, spectral grasp, spectral wall. Whatever you can to lock them down.

Depends…

If you’re refering to PvE then (like with alle classes) power>condi.

If you’re refering to PvP then it depends… WvW zergs: power>condi. Small scale or solo roaming and sPvP, depends on your group composition (and your opponents): a condi necro’s Epidemic can work like an amplifier for every ally, so they synergize quite well with other condition builds.

If you’re refering to a straight up 1v1 between a condi and a power necro: the better player wins. But if both players are equally strong then the outcome is a coin toss, there is no build-win (assuming they both use a good build) if that’s what you’re asking.
Some people say that condi beats power in a duel, but I suspect that’s because they haven’t met a good power necro yet, which might be because condi is more popular and easier to pull off.

If both players run viable builds and on equal skill, Power Necro should win 1v1. Ability to keep good pressure while in better DS, with way better LF generation is the key in here.
For Condimancer, sitting there in DS isn’t effective enough. They constantly lose pressure for being in Shroud because they don’t apply much condition pressure. Power on the other side has sustained pressure from critical Life Blasts, possibly Vital Persistance trait etc.

The key for condimancer in here is to apply as much Weakness as you can. If he fails here, it’s very close to being downed.
And even in downed state Power necro has advantage

I personally find in sPvP and PvE that hybrid works best for me. My axe channels usually hit for over 7k and with some might stacking assistance my swap set can keep conditions ticking at 120 dmg per tick per condition. The ability to also spread these conditions quickly if enemies bunch is exceptional. However….

In sPVP the necro’s true weakness really begin to show, despite whether your power/condi/hybrid..no blocks or viable stability can make a good build that is being played well be destroyed in under a minute.

I would agree with what some are saying here. It’s a bit of a coin toss assuming both players are equally skilled.
As for Necromancer versus any other profession, power has some pretty brutal damage. But then you come across players with high toughness and that all goes out the window. Why I love conditionmancer is that if I come across someone with lots of condition removal, I can apply conditions faster and more frequently than they can remove them. If they have high toughness but low vitality (Guardian for example) conditions ignore armor so they melt like butter. If I apply poisons or stack enough bleeds, their healing abilities are basically cut in half. So although yes, a well played power Necro can do some seriously devastating damage, and if underestimated can be a hell of an opponent, I would say I’m slightly in favor of a condition build. Applying conditions doesn’t take a lot of practice, but the more practice you get the easier and more quickly you’ll be able to apply just about every condition available in the game on your enemies. And I say this from personal experience when I say, bleeding damage is the silent killer. One or two stacks, your opponent will see it, possibly cleanse it, and will ignore. But those bleeds will keep coming back, and stacking higher and higher. And before they know it they’re suddenly on their backs.

In theory Conditions are more efficient/powerful for a few reasons. Direct damage is first negated by toughness and then also by vitality wherein conditions are only negated by vitality. Secondly, you don’t have to be face to face with an enemy to apply condition damage while most power comes from close/closer range melee weapons. Also, consider that if you are able to apply conditions as damage and you know you’ll be doing so at range it means that toughness isn’t as important for you so you can focus on vitality or whatever attribute you prefer. Lastly, an opponent typically has to specialize to some extent or at least fill their skill bar with ways to deal with conditions while doing so for direct damage is slightly less important.

Honestly, stack conditions and use enviroment to break line of sight = win
He will have use his heal for a full clense at which point hes almost defenseless against conditions (signet of spite).
Sigil of ice on scepter + chilling darkness usually seals the deal in 1v1 situations (well of darkness/deathly swarm).

Winneh.2064:

Honestly, stack conditions and use enviroment to break line of sight = win
He will have use his heal for a full clense at which point hes almost defenseless against conditions (signet of spite).
Sigil of ice on scepter + chilling darkness usually seals the deal in 1v1 situations (well of darkness/deathly swarm).

I wouldn’t say and hurry in here. First, you have to get that LoS. In tpvp it means leaving the point, WvW is vast open field with little cover.
Secondly, keep in mind Power Necros take conditions much better than Conditionmancer in many specs.
, for instance, run CC, Well of Power, Deathly Swarm having the same condition removal as condimancer and have outstanding health/LF pool with ability to regain full DS back within less than 10 sec.

Toe2toe with Powermancer is kind of weird for Condition necro.

There’s little possibility that you outlast him 1v1 if he knows how to manage Shroud. You have bursty role in here. If you manage to catch him in condibomb without preparation, that may be gg sometimes.
But there’s no way your bleeding will allow you to slowly kill him. Life Blast sustained damage is just higher and he can sit in Shroud for a loong time, keeping damage. You don’t.

“Beats”
As in 1v1?
As in team utility?
As in aoe?
As in focus damage?
USE YOUR WORDS MAN
Power nec brings plague signet its game over.

Rym.1469:

Secondly, keep in mind Power Necros take conditions much better than Conditionmancer in many specs.
, for instance, run CC, Well of Power, Deathly Swarm having the same condition removal as condimancer and have outstanding health/LF pool with ability to regain full DS back within less than 10 sec.

Apparently they dont, because i can transfer conditions at least twice – powermancers can not (not counting utility aka plague signet).

Powermancers usually dont have deathly swarm as they dont use a dagger as offhand weapon, most powermancers dont even use the staff. So unless you pick your utilities to deal with conditions you have very little to battle them.
With corrupt boon, signet of spite and well of darkness i can counter everything you have at your disposal to get rid of my conditions.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Power nec brings plague signet its game over.

A condimancer just sends them back via deathly swarm/putrid mark.

I see powermancers at a disadvantage here, their damage comes from DS 1 or channeling spells. Nicely timed CCs can and will easily interrupt them. Thats why i prefer condi setup for solo roaming.
I personally havent lost a fight vs powermancers so far, so i cant imagine a scenario where i actually would unless something goes wrong on my end.

In my experience, powermancer beats conditionmancer almost every time, but then again, when I play powermancer I use axe/focus + staff and take Well of Power, Spectral Grasp, and Spectral Armor. All of these abilities are extremely annoying to conditionmancers – Well of Power removes conditions and adds boons (including vigor from all those bleeds), Spectral Grasp is an interrupt/gap closer and “heals” the powermancer, and Spectral Armor “heals” the powermancer even more. Plus, that’s two stun breaks to deal with fear, and standing in Well of Power may as well be stability against fear.

One thing to remember is that a powermancer is strong and capable of doing damage in Death Shroud, while a conditionmancer is basically just sitting there tanking damage in Death Shroud. Plus, a powermancer has a lot more life force generation. This means that the sustain of a powermancer is much greater. If they can avoid big-hitters like Signet of Spite (or just remove/convert it), then they can outlast the conditionmancer, who has very little healing.

I can see a dagger powermancer struggling a lot harder, though, since it would be hard to actually stay on the conditionmancer. By the time a dagger user got to the conditionmancer, they would be struggling to stay alive. And there are condition transfers to deal with.

It comes down how much condition transfer/removel and ways to interrupt the fear chain the power necro has. If he has enough he will beat a condi necro most of the time.

I haven’t lost any duel vs. Conditionmancer in tpvp on my Power necro for a long time. I’ve been fighting necromancers like Ventari and other good ones and those fights are basis for my pov.
Unless it’s a big fault on my side, I won’t lose to conditionmancer 1v1 when prepared, and if so, it comes mostly from excellent play, above my level, of conditionmancer.

I run A/D+D/Wh and with WoP, I find my level of cleansing on the level of condimancer.

As I said previously, single blind or WoD won’t save you over time, it can just delay the damage. The most viable counter is keeping up high amount of weakness

Tpvp is a whole different story, i am playing wvw 99% of the time. thats where i got my experience from.
Im running around with 2200-2300 condi dmg, fully buffed (25 corruption stacks, pizza, crystal, Applied Strength).
I dont think thats comparable to tpvp.

I find as a powermancer that most condimancers I run into in WvW are, in my opinion, bad. Most times they run through their rotation, I cleanse, and they never touch death shroud until they are super low health and I know the fight is essentially over.

A good condimancer is a much tougher fight as they’ll not only be more skillful with jukes and dodges, but will also interrupt a heal and save their fears for an opportune moment instead of trying for a big condi spike. That fight usually depends on who is the better player and had better timed dodges/interrupts.

Rym.1469:

I haven’t lost any duel vs. Conditionmancer in tpvp on my Power necro for a long time. I’ve been fighting necromancers like Ventari and other good ones and those fights are basis for my pov.
Unless it’s a big fault on my side, I won’t lose to conditionmancer 1v1 when prepared, and if so, it comes mostly from excellent play, above my level, of conditionmancer.

I run A/D+D/Wh and with WoP, I find my level of cleansing on the level of condimancer.

As I said previously, single blind or WoD won’t save you over time, it can just delay the damage. The most viable counter is keeping up high amount of weakness

This.

Pve no comment, wvw zerg is all power, wvw with party is safer on a conditank, solo the better player wins (unless the usual bs of wvw roaming: stealth regen, PU mesmer, perplexity , healing signet….)

Necro vs necro
Depends on ammount of life force, if 100% power should win. It deals dmg and has better lf regen, condi only needs lf for fear flash. And vital persistance is great for tanking condies with DS

Any other realistic tpvp scenirios
Condi wins.
Sadly. I play power half a year Nd recently just tryed condi. It still wrecks teamsfights with aoe, downed fight control while being able to 1v1 anything beside a warr, pw thief or decap engie. Im not saying power is bad, its very decent and more fun. Condi just looks weaker cz of 40%+ warrior population

Rym.1469:

Winneh.2064:

Honestly, stack conditions and use enviroment to break line of sight = win
He will have use his heal for a full clense at which point hes almost defenseless against conditions (signet of spite).
Sigil of ice on scepter + chilling darkness usually seals the deal in 1v1 situations (well of darkness/deathly swarm).

I wouldn’t say and hurry in here. First, you have to get that LoS. In tpvp it means leaving the point, WvW is vast open field with little cover.
Secondly, keep in mind Power Necros take conditions much better than Conditionmancer in many specs.
, for instance, run CC, Well of Power, Deathly Swarm having the same condition removal as condimancer and have outstanding health/LF pool with ability to regain full DS back within less than 10 sec.

Toe2toe with Powermancer is kind of weird for Condition necro.

There’s little possibility that you outlast him 1v1 if he knows how to manage Shroud. You have bursty role in here. If you manage to catch him in condibomb without preparation, that may be gg sometimes.
But there’s no way your bleeding will allow you to slowly kill him. Life Blast sustained damage is just higher and he can sit in Shroud for a loong time, keeping damage. You don’t.

staff (Putrid Mark), well of power, deathly swarm, Consume Conditions (healing skill), plague signet and the various trait skills… Necro can remove condi’s easily if spec’d for it. I would say that a Death Shroud traited necro can easily deal with a condi necro, since large health pool of both vit and d/s can be the undoing of condi specialist especially when running all the condi removal abilities. Also, don’t forget the negative condi duration runes and food…

So I´m either a very skilled Conditionmancer, or all Powermancers I´ve met were utterly kitten (I am playing on riverside).

+ As a Powermancer, the skills you listed dont come with the typical way of playing a power based Necro. Sure it´s possible to spec a powermancer to deal with conditions, but then, theres not much of a powermancer left is there?

I.e. a powermancer using staff, doesnt use dagger off hand, therefore doesnt have access to deathly swarm.

terrormancer > any imho (until dumbfire will be moved)

Winneh.2064:

So I´m either a very skilled Conditionmancer, or all Powermancers I´ve met were utterly kitten (I am playing on riverside).

+ As a Powermancer, the skills you listed dont come with the typical way of playing a power based Necro. Sure it´s possible to spec a powermancer to deal with conditions, but then, theres not much of a powermancer left is there?

I.e. a powermancer using staff, doesnt use dagger off hand, therefore doesnt have access to deathly swarm.

dagger/dagger+staff is a viable weapon choice for power necromancer so dont dismiss it so easily…

Maybe i also should ad that there are many different powermancer builds, some which destroy condimancer and some which get destroyed by condimancer.

But normally a fight between necros comes down to how has the better condi transfer/removel and who uses them better (atleast if one is a condimancer).

Winneh.2064:

So I´m either a very skilled Conditionmancer, or all Powermancers I´ve met were utterly kitten (I am playing on riverside).

+ As a Powermancer, the skills you listed dont come with the typical way of playing a power based Necro. Sure it´s possible to spec a powermancer to deal with conditions, but then, theres not much of a powermancer left is there?

I.e. a powermancer using staff, doesnt use dagger off hand, therefore doesnt have access to deathly swarm.

Please notice that most of so said “Power” necromancers out in WvW are playing some well builds, made for zerging.
Really small percentage of Power Necro players actually play DS Power Specs roaming with success.

And I don’t think that picking something else than a staff is a mistake, at least for Power Necromancer. My build, for instance, is not defined by utilities I bring.
If I so desire, I can take something in place of WoP and still beat most of conditionmancers I meet.

There are many powermancers specs and variations and don’t judge by some random WvW zerglings running from A to B.

In Spvp MM, Power, and condi are all viable. But through experience, condimaster usually takes the cake.

Winneh.2064:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Power nec brings plague signet its game over.

A condimancer just sends them back via deathly swarm/putrid mark.

I see powermancers at a disadvantage here, their damage comes from DS 1 or channeling spells. Nicely timed CCs can and will easily interrupt them. Thats why i prefer condi setup for solo roaming.
I personally havent lost a fight vs powermancers so far, so i cant imagine a scenario where i actually would unless something goes wrong on my end.

If you’re worth your Necro salt, you wouldn’t start such a wide-potential argument by simply stating that the condimancer would send the conditions from Plague Signet back via abilities that a Powermancer very possibly has. Deathly Swarm perhaps not, but Putrid Mark is a very real possibility. Also, dodging Deathly Swarm is a very real possibility as well, so what then?

It’s a bit of a precarious balancing act, but again, I hardly ever see Powermancers roaming while I’m out and about roaming on mine. It’s often considered the “zerg” spec, and the Powermancers I have met seem to be trying out full Zerker and just get sat on. There’s more to pay attention to and worry about as a Powermancer in my opinion, but it can be done well with practice.

To be honest though, I’m not a really big fan of Necro vs. Necro 1v1s, and whether Condi beats Power more often or Power beats Condi says almost nothing about those two specs for the rest of the game (as people have pointed out in different ways).

Flumek.9043:

Rym.1469:

I haven’t lost any duel vs. Conditionmancer in tpvp on my Power necro for a long time. I’ve been fighting necromancers like Ventari and other good ones and those fights are basis for my pov.
Unless it’s a big fault on my side, I won’t lose to conditionmancer 1v1 when prepared, and if so, it comes mostly from excellent play, above my level, of conditionmancer.

I run A/D+D/Wh and with WoP, I find my level of cleansing on the level of condimancer.

As I said previously, single blind or WoD won’t save you over time, it can just delay the damage. The most viable counter is keeping up high amount of weakness

This.

Pve no comment, wvw zerg is all power, wvw with party is safer on a conditank, solo the better player wins (unless the usual bs of wvw roaming: stealth regen, PU mesmer, perplexity , healing signet….)

Necro vs necro
Depends on ammount of life force, if 100% power should win. It deals dmg and has better lf regen, condi only needs lf for fear flash. And vital persistance is great for tanking condies with DS

Any other realistic tpvp scenirios
Condi wins.
Sadly. I play power half a year Nd recently just tryed condi. It still wrecks teamsfights with aoe, downed fight control while being able to 1v1 anything beside a warr, pw thief or decap engie. Im not saying power is bad, its very decent and more fun. Condi just looks weaker cz of 40%+ warrior population

I use a condition build and hopping in and out of Death Shroud is great for Fury boon just before using Feast Of Corruption to ensure a hefty crit. Also, if you use Plague Signet, it’s great for those condition Engi’s and throwing their conditions back in their faces just before or after stacking a bunch of your own.
Still, I say it’s about 50/50 assuming the players are equally skilled. I’ve both rolled and been rolled and had many close fights as a conditionmancer against other Necromancers. Generally speaking though, if you have a good rotation it doesn’t matter how often someone cleanses or how much reduced condition duration they have. You can stack them faster than they can remove them, even against anti-condition Warriors. The key is making them come to you and not you going to them. Because by the time they get within arms reach they should be ready to run away before melting in the distance.

Cogbyrn
I havent met a powermancer that actually caused me any trouble at all.
So i cant really comprehend statements like “powermancers usually beat condimancers”, thats just not what I´ve expierenced in my 1300 hours of wvw necro play.