Guild Wars 2

Hey guys!

I hate to be that guy who asks a question that has probably been answered countless times before, but to find the exact answer I’m looking for, it saves a bit of time.

Wanting to be an offensive Necromancer, I’ve taken interest in both the Powermancer and Hybrid builds- not entirely interested in the full Conditionmancer.

So my questions go back to the title: Powermancer vs Hybrid

To help influence me and anyone else struggling with this decision, I would appreciate honest answers- and don’t be afraid to criticize my lack of knowledge in the subject .

My first question is are Hybrid damage Necro builds still viable/strong?

If the answer to that is yes, proceed.

Note: Most of the following assumes each Necro build is built most efficiently and playstyles are mastered.

In your opinion, what Necro build (P or H) is better with each of the following:
(Feel free to answer each individual category or give a rundown as a whole)

• Short fight single target dps (standard mobs):

• Short fight AoE dps:

• Long fight single target dps:

• Long fight AoE dps:

• Higher survivability:

• Generally more useful in dungeons:

• Generally more useful in fractals:

• More accepted for group play (relates to last 2):

• More respected by community:

• WvW roaming and skirmishing:

• Generally easier to play:

• (Complete opinion) More fun to play:

I am well aware that many of these are slightly unanswerable and some of them sound like the same question reworded. I apologize for these mistakes as I was somewhat unsure of what I was missing.

Once again, sorry if I posted a common topic, but thanks for the help !

CrosserX.5780:

• WvW roaming and skirmishing:

• (Complete opinion) More fun to play:

These two are a matter of personal preference.

Every PvE related question: power>hybrid.

Long fight aoe dps and survivability might be debatable. Probably depends on the situation, how much damage you have to mitigate, what utility skills you’re using, how far the targets are standing apart or if they are moving or standing still. Hard to say, but overall power builds should still be more effective.

If some of these questions are about PvP: skill>build (to some extent).
Both damage types are viable, however hybrids are rather unpopular and therefore rarely seen in WvW and sPvP.

CrosserX.5780:

In your opinion, what Necro build (P or H) is better with each of the following:
(Feel free to answer each individual category or give a rundown as a whole)

Short fight single target dps (standard mobs): Power

Short fight AoE dps: Power

Long fight single target dps: Power

Long fight AoE dps: doesn´t exist in this game

Higher survivability: power (celestial is not used for dps), but DS on cd (weakening shroud, dark path and skill 5) is more important for hybrid dps then for a powernecro
And both are melee (staff + d/d) hybrid. Axe/scepter is not rly a viable build.

Generally more useful in dungeons: Power

Generally more useful in fractals: Power

More accepted for group play (relates to last 2): Power

More respected by community: People who rly know the game and necros don´t want necros at all (or at least a powernec) . Others don´t want necros anyway.

WvW roaming and skirmishing: both viable, but hybrids will use other gear here.

Generally easier to play: hard > staff d/d hybrid > power d/f d/wh > axe/scepter hybrid

(Complete opinion) More fun to play: power > staff d/d hybrid, i don´t play axe/scepter

---

I am well aware that many of these are slightly unanswerable and some of them sound like the same question reworded. I apologize for these mistakes as I was somewhat unsure of what I was missing.

Once again, sorry if I posted a common topic, but thanks for the help !

Norjena.5172:

Long fight AoE dps: doesn´t exist in this game

They do in some world events, living stories and maybe some higher level fractals.

Norjena.5172:

Higher survivability: power (celestial is not used for dps), but DS on cd (weakening shroud, dark path and skill 5) is more important for hybrid dps then for a powernecro
And both are melee (staff + d/d) hybrid. Axe/scepter is not rly a viable build.

There is not just one single viable way to make a power build.
Arguably there’s even more variety to hybrids, so why would you assume “staff d/d” is the only way? And that’s just the weapons. What about gear prefixes, runes, sigils, traits…?
There are so many variables, not just to your build but also the situation you’re fighting in. Making statements about survivability or what is easier to play is rather pointless.

CrosserX.5780:

• Short fight single target dps (standard mobs):
  Power. don’t think anyone will argue against that.

• Short fight AoE dps:
  Debatable.
  Power has A3, DS4/5, DS1 (pretty hard to hit more than 2 or 3 though), Staff (which is more utility than damage) Focus4 and Well of Suffering(/Corruption)
  realistically used against a group of mobs is probably WoS -> DS5/4 -> DS1/AA if anything survives. (which doesn’t lock you into an axe/saff build)
  Hybrid has pretty much everything Power has + S2, D5, D4(not the greatest dmg though) and Epidemic.
  If you’re really just pulling 5 mobs and kill them power will probably be faster.
  if you’re fighting something like the risen giant (mostly single target, but spawns additional mobs) a hybrid will just epidemic the 20 bleeds+other condis and the adds are dead.

• Long fight single target dps:
  The long fight stuff depends a lot on one thing: how many ppl are there? is it just you who tries to solo a boss, you with a few friends or a zerg?
  for pure single hybrid should catch up (conditions are finally able to stack and bring their real pain) and do comparable damage (i think it’s a bit lower though)
  same for a group of friends IF they don’t bring conditions -> power is easier to fit in
  in a zerg power wins hands down. too many ppl who overwrite you condis.

• Long fight AoE dps:
  hybrid should have the advantage here with more spammable AoEs + Epidemic
  in a zerg even a hybrid should probably concentrate on the power-part and use epidemic to do more aoe

• Higher survivability:
  depending on the exact builds.
  power has better Lifeforce-generation and thus better DS uptime.
  hybrid usually has at least a few celestial items leading to better vitality/thoughness/healing power. LF-gen can be taken care of by the power-part (D1 or A/F). also better damage at >600 range through scepter and condis (thus staying safer).
  i’d give this to hybrid IF power is a regular zerker

• Generally more useful in dungeons:
  depending on team comp. but if you want a plug and play char power is probably better

• Generally more useful in fractals:
  haven’t run in ages (and never got high) but should be the same as above

• More accepted for group play (relates to last 2):
  don’t know. probably power

• More respected by community:
  really don’t know

• WvW roaming and skirmishing:
  again depending on number of targets/allies

• Generally easier to play:
  i might give this one to hybrid. while it has more complex rotations than a D1 spam, being in melee takes more practice to survive.

• (Complete opinion) More fun to play:
  i like both and have a weapon/armor set for each

keep in mind that i’m nowhere near being a pro and this is just my opinion which will most likely differ from some other necros

Norjena.5172:

Axe/scepter is not rly a viable build.

IMO if you’re not using scepter in a hybrid build you are better off just going for power. scepter/dagger stacks by far the most bleeds. without it any condition damage is wasted and could have been better put into pow/prec/fer. if you just wanna use terror/dhuumfire you should just stick to their base damage and what you get from curses (will probably be less effective than power traits).

EDIT: formatting

Appreciate the responses, thanks! So overall it seems Powermancers are better than the Hybrid in the particular aspects I asked.

I went 1-80 using a dagger so I’ve already grown quite accustom to melee range survival- though I can still have a lot of practice with it.

Do you guys recommend or suggest any particular builds?

From what I’ve seen trying to find an answer myself, Spoj’s looks promising…

Then again, what do I know :)

For PvE just use Spoj´s guide.

Du Bist Schuld.8097:

IMO if you’re not using scepter in a hybrid build you are better off just going for power. scepter/dagger stacks by far the most bleeds. without it any condition damage is wasted and could have been better put into pow/prec/fer. if you just wanna use terror/dhuumfire you should just stick to their base damage and what you get from curses (will probably be less effective than power traits).

EDIT: formatting

Scepter does rly low direct dmg. With staff d/d and the right rotation u have more then 15 bleeds on both weaponssets (average, 20-25 are possibel), and superior direct dmg on both sets.

Terror is not used in dungeons/fractals. Dhuumfire usually too (in partys).

CrosserX.5780:

Hey guys!

I hate to be that guy who asks a question that has probably been answered countless times before, but to find the exact answer I’m looking for, it saves a bit of time.

Wanting to be an offensive Necromancer, I’ve taken interest in both the Powermancer and Hybrid builds- not entirely interested in the full Conditionmancer.

So my questions go back to the title: Powermancer vs Hybrid

To help influence me and anyone else struggling with this decision, I would appreciate honest answers- and don’t be afraid to criticize my lack of knowledge in the subject .

---

My first question is are Hybrid damage Necro builds still viable/strong?

If the answer to that is yes, proceed.

---

Note: Most of the following assumes each Necro build is built most efficiently and playstyles are mastered.

---

In your opinion, what Necro build (P or H) is better with each of the following:
(Feel free to answer each individual category or give a rundown as a whole)

• Short fight single target dps (standard mobs):

• Short fight AoE dps:

• Long fight single target dps:

• Long fight AoE dps:

• Higher survivability:

• Generally more useful in dungeons:

• Generally more useful in fractals:

• More accepted for group play (relates to last 2):

• More respected by community:

• WvW roaming and skirmishing:

• Generally easier to play:

• (Complete opinion) More fun to play:

---

I am well aware that many of these are slightly unanswerable and some of them sound like the same question reworded. I apologize for these mistakes as I was somewhat unsure of what I was missing.

Once again, sorry if I posted a common topic, but thanks for the help !

I personally lean towards hybrid because it provides far greater utility and flexibility. You will not be as optimized for some situations as a power build, but with swapping of just a couple pieces of gear, not even entire sets, and switching utility skills, you can very quickly adjust to anything and still do OK at it.

I would take some of these findings with a grain of salt. Necro is one of few classes where the situation affects what the best damage build will be.

A hybrid necro in situations where they can apply consistent, uncontested, high volume bleed stacks + other conditions easily give power builds a run for their money and are more forgiving to any downtime experienced.

I don’t see a reason to not run either as the situation requires … we have free trait resets and you got bags for gear.

Norjena.5172:

For PvE just use Spoj´s guide.

Scepter does rly low direct dmg. With staff d/d and the right rotation u have more then 15 bleeds on both weaponssets (average, 20-25 are possibel), and superior direct dmg on both sets.

I just calculated the possible avg stacks on D/D + Staff and it’s theoretically possible with the right cooldown reductions, enough Condi duration and sigil of earth to get to 15 Bleeds. I’m not sure how likely it is, but i stand corrected on this one.

Scepter will (rightfully) never reach dagger lvls of direct damage, but it isn’t that shabby. I tested it for another thread and it wasn’t too much behind the axe in a full power build. However it was far better than the staff in the same situation. now account for the much better and more consistent bleed stacking on it and it massively outdamages a staff in a hybrid build.
I’d try to make a comparison of hybrid dagger vs. scepter on the golems, but imo Hybrid doesn’t work too well in the mists due to being forced into (suboptimal) Stats.

Du Bist Schuld.8097:

Staff < Scepter < axe < DS < Dagger < DS+axe

hide spoiler

Scepter: (used 2 and 3 everytime they were up)
avg 18,74s
longest 20,7s
shortest 17,4s

Axe: (used 2 and 3 everytime they were up)
Avg. 17,83s
longest 20,2s
shortest 15,3s

Dagger: (only 1 spam)
avg 11,06s
longest 12,3s
shortest 9,4s

Staff (with Spite VII): (open with 234 ->1 spam, 2 when up)
avg 24,03
longest 27,7
shortest 22,3

(open with 4 -> 1 spam)
avg 25,35
longest 28,6
shortest 20,6 (VERY lucky though)

DS (NO axe training): (only 1 spam)
avg 12,31s
longest 13,4s
shortest 11,8s

DS (with axe training): (only 1 spam)
avg 10,94s
longest 11,8s
shortest 10,2s

Du Bist Schuld.8097:

I tested it for another thread and it wasn’t too much behind the axe in a full power build.

I’ve done some testing myself a while ago and in very optimal settings the scepter could come close to 6k dmg with Feast of Corruption. However, in the very same situation Ghastly Claws would do ~10k when not even all of the 8 consecutive hits were critical. Needless to say, the scepter would fall a lot more behind if there were less conditions on the target. Also, the cooldown on axe is much lower, the life force regeneration is better and more reliable, utility of Unholy Feast beats Grasping Dead and damage in DS is higher with an axe equipped.

The only weak thing on the axe is its auto attack. So I’m not at all surprised about the results of your test, but keep in mind: against actual opponent you’ll use more than just auto attack and then 2+3 whenever they’re off cd.
If we’re just analysing sustained damage on a single weapon then dagger and scepter are the clear winners. If you’re trying to set up a burst rotation incorporating all of your skills to get more than 20 stacks of bleeding then you don’t need the scepter at all.
And yes, this thread is more about PvE, but against other players in WvW or sPvP you’ll rarely get to use your auto attack anyway.

Du Bist Schuld.8097:

Norjena.5172:

For PvE just use Spoj´s guide.

Scepter does rly low direct dmg. With staff d/d and the right rotation u have more then 15 bleeds on both weaponssets (average, 20-25 are possibel), and superior direct dmg on both sets.

I just calculated the possible avg stacks on D/D + Staff and it’s theoretically possible with the right cooldown reductions, enough Condi duration and sigil of earth to get to 15 Bleeds. I’m not sure how likely it is, but i stand corrected on this one.

Scepter will (rightfully) never reach dagger lvls of direct damage, but it isn’t that shabby. I tested it for another thread and it wasn’t too much behind the axe in a full power build. However it was far better than the staff in the same situation. now account for the much better and more consistent bleed stacking on it and it massively outdamages a staff in a hybrid build.
I’d try to make a comparison of hybrid dagger vs. scepter on the golems, but imo Hybrid doesn’t work too well in the mists due to being forced into (suboptimal) Stats.

Du Bist Schuld.8097:

Staff < Scepter < axe < DS < Dagger < DS+axe

hide spoiler

Scepter: (used 2 and 3 everytime they were up)
avg 18,74s
longest 20,7s
shortest 17,4s

Axe: (used 2 and 3 everytime they were up)
Avg. 17,83s
longest 20,2s
shortest 15,3s

Dagger: (only 1 spam)
avg 11,06s
longest 12,3s
shortest 9,4s

Staff (with Spite VII): (open with 234 ->1 spam, 2 when up)
avg 24,03
longest 27,7
shortest 22,3

(open with 4 -> 1 spam)
avg 25,35
longest 28,6
shortest 20,6 (VERY lucky though)

DS (NO axe training): (only 1 spam)
avg 12,31s
longest 13,4s
shortest 11,8s

DS (with axe training): (only 1 spam)
avg 10,94s
longest 11,8s
shortest 10,2s

U aren´t using Staff 1. After the swap to staff use 234 DS 2/5111(1) staff 2, switch back to dagger. Sigil of earth isn´t used. Geomancy is better.

flow.6043:

I’ve done some testing myself a while ago and in very optimal settings the scepter could come close to 6k dmg with Feast of Corruption. However, in the very same situation Ghastly Claws would do ~10k when not even all of the 8 consecutive hits were critical. Needless to say, the scepter would fall a lot more behind if there were less conditions on the target. Also, the cooldown on axe is much lower, the life force regeneration is better and more reliable, utility of Unholy Feast beats Grasping Dead and damage in DS is higher with an axe equipped.

The only weak thing on the axe is its auto attack. So I’m not at all surprised about the results of your test, but keep in mind: against actual opponent you’ll use more than just auto attack and then 2+3 whenever they’re off cd.

All true. For my test i just wanted to know how different weapons would fit into a power build, so i could only use the weapon specific skills. Obviously axe is better than scepter for any power build, but i’m not so sure about hybrid, as bleeds start doing significantly more damage there. axe still has the edge with axe training and it’s DS boosting.
I don’t really know how s3 vs. a2 works out in pvp. condis are being cleansed thus reducing s3 (plus it’s just one hit, so critting with it is hit or miss), but any halfway skilled player could just dodge a big part of a2’s damage.

flow.6043:

If we’re just analysing sustained damage on a single weapon then dagger and scepter are the clear winners. If you’re trying to set up a burst rotation incorporating all of your skills to get more than 20 stacks of bleeding then you don’t need the scepter at all.
And yes, this thread is more about PvE, but against other players in WvW or sPvP you’ll rarely get to use your auto attack anyway.

that’s all true for pvp. but pve is either bursting down trash mobs (in which i wouldn’t even start burst stacking bleeds in a complex rotation when dagger1 does the job equally good) or prolonged boss fights in which sustained damage is better. however i don’t know if burst stacking of bleeds with lows in between, but being able to attack with the hard hitting DS and D1 attacks is better than something like scepter bleed stack -> switch to axe F4->a2 ->DS rotation -> back to scepter

Norjena.5172:

U aren´t using Staff 1. After the swap to staff use 234 DS 2/5111(1) staff 2, switch back to dagger. Sigil of earth isn´t used. Geomancy is better.

but, but, you didn’t say anything about DS, you just said that staff has better direct damage. qq
(please read this with some funny/childish tone to it and don’t take it offensive )

i just tried your build/rotation and it’s a pretty nice condition burst. i didn’t manage to get to over 20 stacks without BiP or any food (tried it in the mists)and shortly after rotating back to the dagger the stacks dropped down to about 5 with d5 being on CD.
in a prolonged boss fight where you can do multiple rotations the stacks should add up a bit more though.
so, i stand corrected and have to admit that you can do a hybrid build without scepter (even though it needs a specific setup and a precise rotation that you can only achieve in fulltime melee)

EDIT: just tried this vs. an indestructable golem and the max i got was 17 stacks (peaks were usually 15-16 though) with said lows of 5-6 on dagger. with food or runes this would ofc be higher. It may as well be just me not knowing the absolutely perfect rotation though

with a scepter/staff and similair (point blank) rotation i managed peaks of up to 22 (usually more like 18-19 though) with lows of 10-12
that means during the lows i had 372 – 651 (at 1000 CD) more (Condition) DPS which would make the gap between scepter and dagger thinner.

I can answer for pvp, hybrids are god awful and no one uses them. I think only the warrior ele and engie can pull of hybrids, and thats just down to weapon skills that allow for it.

PVE wise power will always be the best. Although of course dont be afraid to dump some conditions on them, just dont expect much from them.

One way you could test it out is go into the pvp mists, do a hybrid build and go and take on the NPCs (not the class ones, svanir and co, although you can test the class ones if you like). Then switch over to a hybrid and try again.

It will not be a perfect representation but its something. And because its in the mists its free, so no wasting money/tokens before you decide on the gear etc.

DaliIndica.9041:

I can answer for pvp, hybrids are god awful and no one uses them.

lol. I use a hybrid in both sPvP and WvW.

DaliIndica.9041:

I think only the warrior ele and engie can pull of hybrids, and thats just down to weapon skills that allow for it.

Well, we have Death Shroud, which has to be balanced so it is equally useful for power and condi builds. Therefore our class mechanic innately makes it possible to create hybrids.

I would guess a 6/6/x/x/x hybrid would work fantastic with carrion in spvp and roaming. Dhuum and path of corruption terror.

flow, what hybrid build are you playing these days?

I am using 6/4/0/0/4 for Dhuum/Terror condition damage and d/d + Staff. Sometimes I swap the 4 in soul reaping into death magic for the staff traits. Usually run zerk armor/weps trav runes and celestial trinkets.

I really want to run an offhand other than dagger but it just feels so strong.

displacedTitan.6897:

flow, what hybrid build are you playing these days?

Here you go.
I would probably use an off hand dagger as well if I didn’t have the staff traits to buff Putrid Mark. But other than that, the warhorn + Banshee’s Wail is pure gold.

flow.6043:

displacedTitan.6897:

flow, what hybrid build are you playing these days?

Here you go.
I would probably use an off hand dagger as well if I didn’t have the staff traits to buff Putrid Mark. But other than that, the warhorn + Banshee’s Wail is pure gold.

How do you feel about your direct damage with your build? i personally never really liked carrion because of the lack of crit (i like seeing those big numbers xD). you seem pretty durable though, so it might not be much of a problem.

btw i tried the d/d + staff rotation mentioned earlier versus the s/d + staff version of it on the indestructible golems and took the time it needs to get it’s hp from 100-0 once. i used celestial for this test (just bcs it gives the same amount of power/prec/fer and condi damage, so no build would be at a disadvantage).
didn’t try it too often (like 5 times each) because it is a pain in the kittycat to reset them to full hp (unless i’m an idiot xD).

the results were actually pretty even. it took somewhere between 42-52 seconds to ‘kill’ it and the deviation inside the groups was larger than between the two builds. which means two things: the damage is very comparable and i suck at consitently doing such rotations.

Du Bist Schuld.8097:

How do you feel about your direct damage with your build? i personally never really liked carrion because of the lack of crit (i like seeing those big numbers xD). you seem pretty durable though, so it might not be much of a problem.

Well, first of all: if you like to see big numbers you probably shouldn’t play necro at all

In my case it’s usually several lower damage skills hitting all at once while conditions are ticking in the background. It sounds rather vague, but a non-stun-broken burst can deal a very good amount of damage. Maybe check out the video linked in the build thread, it’s old but still works today.
As for the direct damage with carrion in general, it’s ok, nothing too fancy but way higher than dire or rabid of course.
Also, in my pvp adaptation of the build I use pack runes, which in combo with Furious Demise add up to a pretty nice fury uptime in combat. So I’m not really trying to make big numbers happen in the first place, I’m fine with having ~2k power for non-crits and the occasional ~50% crit chance with fury. The bigger part of my damage comes from conditions anyway.

So I had a bunch of gold/mats sitting around and decided to gear up for this build. Albeit with exotic armor instead of ascended.

I have to say, loving it so far, you are super durable and still put out tremendous damage on a target. A lot more AOE potential than what I was running for sure, the only thing I miss is the lack of constant 25% move speed from traveler runes.

As flow mentioned, while the damage looks low because of a lack of crit chance/dmg you are hitting SO MANY TIMES. Between swarm/Condi/Golem/Mad King you just pound hits into targets. I have a superior sigil of strength on my warhorn and get far more procs on this build than I did on my last build.

As an excellent aside, you just faceroll over most thieves using this build, the aoe condi pressure combined with the innate tankiness is just awesome. I love getting jumped by one and laughing as I melt him.

Glad you like it.

displacedTitan.6897:

the only thing I miss is the lack of constant 25% move speed from traveler runes.

It’s probably something you got used to but it’s really not neccessary.
Also, you get some swiftness with warhorn anyway.

displacedTitan.6897:

I have a superior sigil of strength on my warhorn and get far more procs on this build than I did on my last build.

Interesting choice. How many stacks can you build up before switching back to staff?

One of the reasons I went with leeching is because Geomancy’s direct damage was nerfed by 75%. An extra 1k damage (and healing) regardless of my opponent’s armor value turned out to be a really nice buff overall.

Pseudo Hybrid Build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNAW7djc0UZb5Ne2wfbiehS6aoEOBoCgofgE4dB-TFCGwABuCArU/Zpyga7PA4hAYUpXbdDTVCSKA/kGB-w

My current necro setup. The primary purpose of this build is corruption. Hence Focus, Path of Corruption and Corrupt Boon. In a team setting I can swap locust signet for Well of Corruption if needed.

The power isn’t high enough to justify using power weapons. It does however make using certain skills better. Namely Focus 4, Every DS skill, Scepter 3 and Staff 1. This way if I run into a diamond skin ele or rampaging warrior I don’t have to just sit on my hands…I can modify my attack pattern and deal with it.