Guild Wars 2

Tumbleweed/silence..
Anet philosophy.. If it affects warrior it doesn’t fit in this game..

Maybe they should hire some Dota/lol balance people to figure out the fluster cluck..

This is one of the silliest threads I’ve ever seen. I don’t know where to start. I shouldn’t be surprised, everyone gets real defensive about their class when it’s over the top and needs taking down a little.

We’ll start by looking at the change itself:

Mark of Blood. Removed 1 bleed in PvP only.

in PvP only

PvP only

You know… PvP… the mode where necromancers are incredibly strong, able to singlehandedly win teamfights, 1v1 anyone not hard built to counter them and present amazing condi damage and control while having the health pool of an elephant?
And yet you’re talking in the OP about silly kitten like the 25 bleed cap? When does the bleed cap EVER come into play in PvP? When have you EVER seen someone in PvP with 25 bleeds that doesn’t die 1 second later anyway? Have you ever thought “Maybe if I had 26 bleeds instead of 25, that guy would have died!”? No, you haven’t. Total kittening joke.

TheBandit.7031:

Staff is already poor in PvP and now they’re gonna make it worse? Really?

This has to be the real jewel in a pile of kitten. Something extremely powerful is potentially getting nerfed a tiny little bit and you claim it’s “poor” in an attempt to handwave? Staff? Poor? It’s kittening core! Am I being rused here? Is this a joke? Can I direct you to this survey of necromancers in sPvP done by someone on reddit: http://imgur.com/a/iZfVr – In particular, can I direct you to the offhand weapon set graph: http://i.imgur.com/7fS2lrJ.png

Get a load of that! Over 70% of necromancers are using a weapon set which is “poor”. But of course, it’s really not, it’s incredibly strong to be able to kitten out hard hitting conditions over and over from 1200 range near-instantly and you’re just calling it “poor” in an attempt to garner some kind of sympathy.

Seriously necrobros, frankly I’m just disappointed. The warriors forums are handling being nerfed MUCH better than here, probably because warriors actually accept that their strengths are very over the top. Why can’t you?

I will admit however (Disclaimer) that they are looking in the wrong compartments for necro nerfs, and they need to go towards Dhuumfire and Terror instead of the weapon skills. You don’t even have to think about Dhuumfire, it just happens, and Terror bombing is just following routine.

Writetyper.1985:

Get a load of that! Over 70% of necromancers are using a weapon set which is “poor”. But of course, it’s really not, it’s incredibly strong to be able to kitten out hard hitting conditions over and over from 1200 range near-instantly and you’re just calling it “poor” in an attempt to garner some kind of sympathy.
.

Gee, I wonder why staff is so popular. Could it be that necros only have two choices for mainhand if they are condition and one of those is staff. I wonder how many necros think to themselves “Okay, I’ve got scepter in one mainhand now I need to choose my second mainhand. Should I go with staff or no weapon at all? Hrm, think I will go with no weapon.”

Of course staff is going to be highly represented since most necros are conditions. Power necros have an option. Condition necros don’t.

The staff is a great weapon for group fights. A great weapon. But, it’s a bit awkward for soloing. That could be said of all the staff classes, though. Necro staff doesn’t need any nerfs. Staff one could get some quality of life improvements though.

Staff is better for a 1v1 in sPvP than a 1v1 in WvW since the staff is about area control and people have to stand in the dorpycircles.

Writetyper.1985:

This is one of the silliest threads I’ve ever seen. I don’t know where to start. I shouldn’t be surprised, everyone gets real defensive about their class when it’s over the top and needs taking down a little.

We’ll start by looking at the change itself:

Mark of Blood. Removed 1 bleed in PvP only.

in PvP only

PvP only

You know… PvP… the mode where necromancers are incredibly strong, able to singlehandedly win teamfights, 1v1 anyone not hard built to counter them and present amazing condi damage and control while having the health pool of an elephant?
And yet you’re talking in the OP about silly kitten like the 25 bleed cap? When does the bleed cap EVER come into play in PvP? When have you EVER seen someone in PvP with 25 bleeds that doesn’t die 1 second later anyway? Have you ever thought “Maybe if I had 26 bleeds instead of 25, that guy would have died!”? No, you haven’t. Total kittening joke.

TheBandit.7031:

Staff is already poor in PvP and now they’re gonna make it worse? Really?

This has to be the real jewel in a pile of kitten. Something extremely powerful is potentially getting nerfed a tiny little bit and you claim it’s “poor” in an attempt to handwave? Staff? Poor? It’s kittening core! Am I being rused here? Is this a joke? Can I direct you to this survey of necromancers in sPvP done by someone on reddit: http://imgur.com/a/iZfVr – In particular, can I direct you to the offhand weapon set graph: http://i.imgur.com/7fS2lrJ.png

Get a load of that! Over 70% of necromancers are using a weapon set which is “poor”. But of course, it’s really not, it’s incredibly strong to be able to kitten out hard hitting conditions over and over from 1200 range near-instantly and you’re just calling it “poor” in an attempt to garner some kind of sympathy.

Seriously necrobros, frankly I’m just disappointed. The warriors forums are handling being nerfed MUCH better than here, probably because warriors actually accept that their strengths are very over the top. Why can’t you?

I will admit however (Disclaimer) that they are looking in the wrong compartments for necro nerfs, and they need to go towards Dhuumfire and Terror instead of the weapon skills. You don’t even have to think about Dhuumfire, it just happens, and Terror bombing is just following routine.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I dropped the staff after noticing bug numbering 3 in total. This was before that recent dev post confirming a stealth nerf from months ago. Now there is talk of nerfing the staff again with MOB. I can understand why some necros are getting upset. Nerfs and bugs does nothing but decrease performance. No matter how you look at it, this is another hit to performance, another hit. Too much time is spent trying to adjust and nerf things where it takes months to do just this alone. Not enough time fixing broken things with the class and addressing its most pressing concerns.

I’ve also noticed how you’ve lumped terror in with dhuumfire. This is something that most necros would not have done. I was a bit curious before, as I’ve seen the arguments, one or the other, but the chain is too strong for both at the same time. I can tell you right now that I’ve killed people without using terror from S.wall, staff or at all, where only dhuumfire prots in the encounter and people still cry foul. Is dhuumfire alone still over the top? We know terror alone was fine. That was before the addition of dhuumfire. Perhaps the S/W and S/D chain without S.wall is like all others, still over the top. Or at least that’s what I’m told in-game.

When Anet gets around to fixing the things that are still broken with the class first, then we can talk about nerfing things. Because some of the things still broken could have a substantial impact on attrition and survival.

Writetyper.1985:

This is one of the silliest threads I’ve ever seen. I don’t know where to start. I shouldn’t be surprised, everyone gets real defensive about their class when it’s over the top and needs taking down a little.

We’ll start by looking at the change itself:

Mark of Blood. Removed 1 bleed in PvP only.

in PvP only

PvP only

You know… PvP… the mode where necromancers are incredibly strong, able to singlehandedly win teamfights, 1v1 anyone not hard built to counter them and present amazing condi damage and control while having the health pool of an elephant?
And yet you’re talking in the OP about silly kitten like the 25 bleed cap? When does the bleed cap EVER come into play in PvP? When have you EVER seen someone in PvP with 25 bleeds that doesn’t die 1 second later anyway? Have you ever thought “Maybe if I had 26 bleeds instead of 25, that guy would have died!”? No, you haven’t. Total kittening joke.

TheBandit.7031:

Staff is already poor in PvP and now they’re gonna make it worse? Really?

This has to be the real jewel in a pile of kitten. Something extremely powerful is potentially getting nerfed a tiny little bit and you claim it’s “poor” in an attempt to handwave? Staff? Poor? It’s kittening core! Am I being rused here? Is this a joke? Can I direct you to this survey of necromancers in sPvP done by someone on reddit: http://imgur.com/a/iZfVr – In particular, can I direct you to the offhand weapon set graph: http://i.imgur.com/7fS2lrJ.png

Get a load of that! Over 70% of necromancers are using a weapon set which is “poor”. But of course, it’s really not, it’s incredibly strong to be able to kitten out hard hitting conditions over and over from 1200 range near-instantly and you’re just calling it “poor” in an attempt to garner some kind of sympathy.

Seriously necrobros, frankly I’m just disappointed. The warriors forums are handling being nerfed MUCH better than here, probably because warriors actually accept that their strengths are very over the top. Why can’t you?

I will admit however (Disclaimer) that they are looking in the wrong compartments for necro nerfs, and they need to go towards Dhuumfire and Terror instead of the weapon skills. You don’t even have to think about Dhuumfire, it just happens, and Terror bombing is just following routine.

Firstly, when I read pvp it means both spvp and wvw. Sure this could be a misunderstanding and they do mean only spvp. But if Anet actually means spvp only, they should have said so already. They kept quiet in all discussions on Mark of Blood indicates that it will indeed be nerfed in both spvp and wvw.

Second, no one has complained about Mark of Blood, before or after Dhuumfire. Mark of Blood was never the problem. It is Dhuumfire that needs to be nerfed. Anet nerfing Mark of Blood instead of Dhuumfire indicates 1) They do not listen to the necro community. 2) They still, after all this time, have no idea what the problem with the necro’s condition damage is.

Third, staff is obviously popular in wvw. But it isn’t because it is overpowered. Wrong! It is because dagger, sceper and axe are all useless in a zerg fight in wvw. 3 out of 4 weapons we necros have are useless in wvw. They are not even an option for us. Staff is the only viable weapons in a zerg fight in wvw.

Fourth, Mark of Blood only deals 3 stacks of bleeding. Reducing that to 2 is a huge 33% nerf. It isn’t small at all like you claimed.

Fifth, PvE. The 25 bleed cap is not nearly enough in pve. Bosses are still immune to snares and cc. Bosses do not use buffs that we can remove from. High level dungeons like FoTM 48+ are filled with one hit kill attacks, which necros have absolutely zero ways to avoid/block. It seems everything in pve is designed to screw the necro over. We have been asking these changes for over a year, and it still isn’t done.

sPvP follows “pvp” rules while WvW follows “pve” rules.

Yeah, the MOB nerf is going to hurt non-condition Necros who use it in WvW… A-net hasn’t even considered this. A-net is nerfing a skill based on the assumption that everyone using it is a Dumbfire Condition Necro.

Lucky I’m one of the few who run Axe/Dagger.

Avigrus.2871:

Yeah, the MOB nerf is going to hurt non-condition Necros who use it in WvW… A-net hasn’t even considered this. A-net is nerfing a skill based on the assumption that everyone using it is a Dumbfire Condition Necro.

Lucky I’m one of the few who run Axe/Dagger.

It isn’t changing in WvW, unless they have suddenly decided that all the wording they have used before is out the window.

Dev terms – PvP == sPvP =/= WvW

Avigrus.2871:

Yeah, the MOB nerf is going to hurt non-condition Necros who use it in WvW… A-net hasn’t even considered this. A-net is nerfing a skill based on the assumption that everyone using it is a Dumbfire Condition Necro.

Lucky I’m one of the few who run Axe/Dagger.

Our entire meta, according to ANet is that everyone is running dumbfire because it is the “one” build now for PvP. Sadly they need to start realizing that not all of us want to play that way, or even play PvP, or we will never see any real advancements to our class.

Bhawb.7408:

It isn’t changing in WvW, unless they have suddenly decided that all the wording they have used before is out the window.

Dev terms – PvP == sPvP =/= WvW

Right. Nor should it change. Staff marks (without Greater marks) miss fairly frequently in WvW, esp in small fights, just because people are dodging all around, stealthing, leaping, etc. They cannot base DPS or value measures based on it always landing like you can do for single targeted attacks. It’s different in PVE or SPVP, where its far easier to center them.

Tommyknocker.6089:

Avigrus.2871:

Yeah, the MOB nerf is going to hurt non-condition Necros who use it in WvW… A-net hasn’t even considered this. A-net is nerfing a skill based on the assumption that everyone using it is a Dumbfire Condition Necro.

Lucky I’m one of the few who run Axe/Dagger.

Our entire meta, according to ANet is that everyone is running dumbfire because it is the “one” build now for PvP. Sadly they need to start realizing that not all of us want to play that way, or even play PvP, or we will never see any real advancements to our class.

It’s not about what you want to play, it’s about what’s over the top in strength right now in pvp balance.

Oblivion.8307:

it’s about what’s over the top in strength right now in pvp balance.

Mark of Blood? really??

Number of times anyone has ever said “You wouldn’t have won that fight if it wasn’t for MoB” is most likely equal to zero.

Looking forward to the day my staff turns into a town toy

But tbh I hardly play PvP, so I don’t mind much. It would annoy me in PvE/WvW though, as it is a nice weaponskill due to the short cd. It’s not so great imo as some people state, as it is fairly situational.

And the question of OP has more-a-less been answered here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Dec-10th-Balance-Preview-Necromancer/page/3#post3143043

flow.6043:

Oblivion.8307:

it’s about what’s over the top in strength right now in pvp balance.

Mark of Blood? really??

condition necros are op.

Oozo.7856:

sPvP follows “pvp” rules while WvW follows “pve” rules.

With the exclusion of ‘nurf the necro’ rules for WvW…

CHIPS.6018:

Alright I am all ears, Anet. You asked for Collaborative Development. Ok let’s talk.

If you guys spent any time at all reading the necro forum, you will notice one thing that everyone has been asking for.

“The 25 bleed cap is way too low. This need to be increased.”

This is an universally agreed point by pretty much every single necromancer player.

And now you guys went ahead and nerfed Mark of Blood by 33%.

Saying I am disappointed would be a very very understatement.

Now, I don’t want to hear any words of comfort. I do not need the usual:

“We understand that many of you are frustrated with the upcoming changes. But you players have no idea what we want for the necromancer.”

Nope. None of this.

I want facts. I want straight up logical facts.

Prove to me, in clear writing, why Mark of Blood need to be nerfed by 33%.

If no one from Anet reply to this post, then I am sorry to say that what we necros fears for months has been proven true.

So give me the facts. Why are you guys nerfing Mark of Blood by 33%. Convince me and all of us. I am all ears. If you truly wants Collaborative Development then talk with us.

With all due respect,

A very frustrated necromancer and GW1 beta player.

Good luck with a response other than more nerfs.

From what they are doing to weakening shroud it should be clear that nearly 100% nerfs to traits and conditions will be the new normal.

Get used to it.

The game is warrior-biased. Anything that reaches near the power of warrior must be nerfed. Necros are currently mediocre(maybe the worst because of one viable build obligation), nerfing them would make them one of the worst classes for spvp. Use your condition-cleanse abilities and ta da, no condi necro can deal damage to you. This is just ridiculous. Other classes already have so much cleanse option, you have to nerf their condition cleanse abilities, not our conditions. They still nerf mediocre classes while warriors(hammer build) and guardians are clearly op. We are expecting buffs to necros to be on par with them, not nerfs !

Umut.5471:

The game is warrior-biased. Anything that reaches near the power of warrior must be nerfed. Necros are currently mediocre(maybe the worst because of one viable build obligation), nerfing them would make them one of the worst classes for spvp. Use your condition-cleanse abilities and ta da, no condi necro can deal damage to you. This is just ridiculous. Other classes already have so much cleanse option, you have to nerf their condition cleanse abilities, not our conditions. They still nerf mediocre classes while warriors(hammer build) and guardians are clearly op. We are expecting buffs to necros to be on par with them, not nerfs !

The idea that the game is warrior-based, when any warrior that showed his face in PvP (unless his name was Hmann) for nearly a full year would have been laughed at until he re-rolled to any other class, is hilarious (if wrong). Almost every tier list had a special tier, generally along the lines of: Trash Tier – Quaggans, Below Trash Tier – Warriors.

Bhawb.7408:

The idea that the game is warrior-based, when any warrior that showed his face in PvP (unless his name was Hmann) for nearly a full year would have been laughed at until he re-rolled to any other class, is hilarious (if wrong). Almost every tier list had a special tier, generally along the lines of: Trash Tier – Quaggans, Below Trash Tier – Warriors.

Yes they were bad before, but now they are at op level with stun-spam builds with 2x invulnerability plus one 8sec condition invulnerability. Also warrior & guardian are only “specially” wanted classes in pve parties, in wvw, guilds use 20 hammer warriors to aoe-stun train enemy guilds or raids because it’s currently only way to win crowded fights. And we don’t even have a real solution against cc spams. They are better than necros in every aspect of the game. This is not a big problem for me, but nerfing necros instead of making them on par with these master classes… This is ridiculous.

You are trying too hard to get a response from the Dev’s. It won’t do any good.

You know why? Because their logic is not the same as ours. Jon recently stated that ‘Siphoned Power’, which is by far the most non-existant grandmaster minor trait performance wise, is fine.

I pretty much gave up hope trying to convince A-Net of anything balance wise.