Guild Wars 2

I dunno, we’re not in a condi meta so the extra vitality doesn’t really feel as useful as the toughness and precision (barbed precision) you get from rabid. Yea sure vitality increases life force pool too, but again, it depletes fast on someone who is essentially zerker level squishy. Also rabid allows me to use the new torment sigil on scepter, which is a nice cover condi. Here’s my build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNAW7Yjc0UebxN+1wfbighaqeI6DIAOXqTio4KA-TZhHABvs/AAXAAkKDEwTAA4DCAA

So please answer me, why carrion is the go-to amulet?

Probably due to the extra damage it allows life blast, life siphon etc to do.

You also do not really lose any condition damage either. Also it can work quite well with rune of scavenging if you want extra life steals.

The only thing you really lose is on crit effects.

Frankly if rampager actually devoted all it’s stats to power/precision & condi damage then it would be the better option. Sadly it puts focus on vitality as well which makes it not work as well.

U can tank burning from the current metamonkeys (ele, engie, warri, dps gurd,)

Ur harder to burst down. 0 heals carrion ehp is biger, 1 heal each theyre exactly same, after 2 heals the rabid ehp is bigger (ignoring condis ofcourse).

U lose on crit sigils tho, barbed precision is very small thing actualy so dont be afraid.

Theyre both possible, the best survival we have is having a ele/engie friend giving us some heals and peeling the bullies away

Flumek.9043:

Ur harder to burst down. 0 heals carrion ehp is biger, 1 heal each theyre exactly same, after 2 heals the rabid ehp is bigger (ignoring condis ofcourse).

This is actually not correct. If we only assume direct damage. Toughness gives more ehp before any heals then vitality (though not much).

Here are the calculations i made for health only: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/I-really-want-to-use-necro-in-pvp/first#post4645252

For DS i also made the calculations and it had the same result (though i am not sure if it is in that post). And yes even if LF generation scales with vitality, toughness still scales better against direct damage.

The vitality vs toughness thing really comes more down to preferance (and how good you can deal with conditions). Toughness is better against direct damage but useless against conditions or lifesiphons (lol), while vitality gives you general defence againsts all kind of attacks (and thus is better against those celestrial monkeys).

The reason why to take carrion over rabid is because power is better then precision for the most part (you still can presure in DS and a mixture of direct damage and condition damage has its advantages). Though some people would argue with the torment sigil, precision becomes good enough to go with rabid over carrion.

You gain very little actual DPS from the Precision of Rabid because you have no Ferocity, and Barbed Precision is a minimal DPS gain. The Power from Carrion allows things like Putrid Mark, Life Blast, and Life Transfer to become viably threatening even though your primary source of DPS is condition damage. Additionally, with all of the passive condition damage that Celestial builds are doing, you gain a good buffer against that by using Carrion for its Vitality.

Lastly, in the off chance some pub Ele on the enemy team is using Diamond Skin, you can actually punch through the top 10% to kill the thing. (Yes, this has been relevant to me before)

I use carrion because my build has more focus on life force gain, and the vitality means every percent of life force is more valuable. I could see rabid working if you built for it.

Muchacho.2390:

Flumek.9043:

Ur harder to burst down. 0 heals carrion ehp is biger, 1 heal each theyre exactly same, after 2 heals the rabid ehp is bigger (ignoring condis ofcourse).

This is actually not correct. If we only assume direct damage. Toughness gives more ehp before any heals then vitality (though not much).

Here are the calculations i made for health only: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/I-really-want-to-use-necro-in-pvp/first#post4645252

For DS i also made the calculations and it had the same result (though i am not sure if it is in that post). And yes even if LF generation scales with vitality, toughness still scales better against direct damage.

The vitality vs toughness thing really comes more down to preferance (and how good you can deal with conditions). Toughness is better against direct damage but useless against conditions or lifesiphons (lol), while vitality gives you general defence againsts all kind of attacks (and thus is better against those celestrial monkeys).

The reason why to take carrion over rabid is because power is better then precision for the most part (you still can presure in DS and a mixture of direct damage and condition damage has its advantages). Though some people would argue with the torment sigil, precision becomes good enough to go with rabid over carrion.

Pretty sure we have gone over this a million kittening times… and you say the same hlthing everytime and everytime a bunch of people have math that says carrion is better against getting bursted.

NeXeD.3042:

Muchacho.2390:

Flumek.9043:

Ur harder to burst down. 0 heals carrion ehp is biger, 1 heal each theyre exactly same, after 2 heals the rabid ehp is bigger (ignoring condis ofcourse).

This is actually not correct. If we only assume direct damage. Toughness gives more ehp before any heals then vitality (though not much).

Here are the calculations i made for health only: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/I-really-want-to-use-necro-in-pvp/first#post4645252

For DS i also made the calculations and it had the same result (though i am not sure if it is in that post). And yes even if LF generation scales with vitality, toughness still scales better against direct damage.

The vitality vs toughness thing really comes more down to preferance (and how good you can deal with conditions). Toughness is better against direct damage but useless against conditions or lifesiphons (lol), while vitality gives you general defence againsts all kind of attacks (and thus is better against those celestrial monkeys).

The reason why to take carrion over rabid is because power is better then precision for the most part (you still can presure in DS and a mixture of direct damage and condition damage has its advantages). Though some people would argue with the torment sigil, precision becomes good enough to go with rabid over carrion.

Pretty sure we have gone over this a million kittening times… and you say the same hlthing everytime and everytime a bunch of people have math that says carrion is better against getting bursted.

Yes we have gone over this a million of times and strangely no one has ever shown me the error in my calculations. And all those people say they have done the math but they never showed it to me nor gave me a link, so why should i believe them when they dont give me the numbers as proof and the calculations i have done say other wise?

But hey if you insist that i am wrong simply show me the math and you will convince me.

And to be clear this post is about the vitality vs toughness debate only, not about carrion vs rabid.

I have seen the math and rabid is better after two heals or something like that, I dunno about you but I haven’t had many fights where I’ve been IN the fight long enough to get consume conditions off twice.

NeXeD.3042:

Muchacho.2390:

…

Pretty sure we have gone over this a million kittening times… and you say the same hlthing everytime and everytime a bunch of people have math that says carrion is better against getting bursted.

Sounds like my cue. ^^

Muchacho.2390:

And yes even if LF generation scales with vitality, toughness still scales better against direct damage.

First of all, the calculations you made in that other thread was a direct comparison of base stats + amulett. It didn’t include traits or life force.
Once you have 4 points in Death Magic you get an additional 200 toughness out of DS and 370 toughness in DS. That means the EHP of carrion is actually higher before healing (27164 vs 27746 to be exact).
Now let’s look at life force:
With rabid you have 18472 hp, factoring in the 50% dmg reduction in DS that means 22166 life force. With carrion: 24972/29966.
Now, let’s see what happens if you add 370 toughness to each amulet. That would be a 36% dmg reduction for rabid = 34634; and 17% dmg reduction for carrion = 36104.

As you can see, if you use the meta condi build with 4 points in Death Magic your regular hp and your lf pool have a higher EHP with carrion.
Also, the bigger pool happens to be the one that can be replenished more easily.

But most importantly, it is absolutely impossible to just take direct damage in a real pvp match. You will take condition damage, a lot of it, more than you could ever make up with the healing effectiveness of a rabid amulett. And you don’t need celestial classes for that, even zerkers inflict conditions.

Muchacho.2390:

And to be clear this post is about the vitality vs toughness debate only, not about carrion vs rabid.

To be fair, the thread title says “why carrion over rabid?”
Also, if you talk about those prefixes it basically comes down to vitality vs toughness because damage wise there’s no contest at all (carrion wins).

flow.6043:

NeXeD.3042:

Muchacho.2390:

…

Pretty sure we have gone over this a million kittening times… and you say the same hlthing everytime and everytime a bunch of people have math that says carrion is better against getting bursted.

Sounds like my cue. ^^

Muchacho.2390:

And yes even if LF generation scales with vitality, toughness still scales better against direct damage.

First of all, the calculations you made in that other thread was a direct comparison of base stats + amulett. It didn’t include traits or life force.
Once you have 4 points in Death Magic you get an additional 200 toughness out of DS and 370 toughness in DS. That means the EHP of carrion is actually higher before healing (27164 vs 27746 to be exact).
Now let’s look at life force:
With rabid you have 18472 hp, factoring in the 50% dmg reduction in DS that means 22166 life force. With carrion: 24972/29966.
Now, let’s see what happens if you add 370 toughness to each amulet. That would be a 36% dmg reduction for rabid = 34634; and 17% dmg reduction for carrion = 36104.

As you can see, if you use the meta condi build with 4 points in Death Magic your regular hp and your lf pool have a higher EHP with carrion.
Also, the bigger pool happens to be the one that can be replenished more easily.

But most importantly, it is absolutely impossible to just take direct damage in a real pvp match. You will take condition damage, a lot of it, more than you could ever make up with the healing effectiveness of a rabid amulett. And you don’t need celestial classes for that, even zerkers inflict conditions.

Muchacho.2390:

And to be clear this post is about the vitality vs toughness debate only, not about carrion vs rabid.

To be fair, the thread title says “why carrion over rabid?”
Also, if you talk about those prefixes it basically comes down to vitality vs toughness because damage wise there’s no contest at all (carrion wins).

Yes that convinces me (why was it so hard to show me the math?). I indeed never made the calculations with deathmagic in mind. But to my defence i did my calculations with a 6/4/0/0/4 dhuumfire build…

Now that you mention it, I forgot to factor in 4 points in Soul Reaping.
That would mean 26600 life force for rabid, effectively 41561 with 36 % dmg reduction.
For Carrion: 35960 – 43325.

btw if you go rabid, you get hard countered by diamond skin ele..

atleast thats what happened when i was playing rabid corrupt

Honestly, there’s very little in it. Yeah, Carrion makes you much tankier if you have a full life force bar, but it takes awhile to build that and you’re squishier in the beginning when you start off empty. I personally take carrion because I find the extra direct damage from life blast, staff 1, an feast of corruption (if you have enough condis on them, people really don’t use that skill as much as they should) outweighs the extra bleeds you’d score from on-crit effects. It’s a pretty small difference though, since you get more crits with rabid.

I’d say Rabid is perfectly viable too, especially now that sigil of tormenting got into pvp.

Okay I’m starting to see the merit of Carrion, especially since the fury scales better with lower base crit chances. But what is this -50% damage in DS thing? I see no mention of it in the wiki page. Source?

Smirgel.9460:

But what is this -50% damage in DS thing? I see no mention of it in the wiki page. Source?

We are the source ;P

In July 2013 we got a patch that made it possible for damage to overflow from our life force pool to our regular hp. After that people started to notice that Death Shroud had become a lot more durabel. All this was before you could see an actual number on the life force bar, so with some testing and speculating we could determine that our life force was now 120% of our regular hp. Devs denied this and said it was 60%.
September 2013: we finally get a number on the lf bar, and behold, it just 60%. However, with actually being able to compare numbers we were able to determine that whatever source of damage we take, only half would be substracted from the lf bar.
So who was right? 120% or 60% but with a damage reduction?
The difference becomes apparent when you take overflow damage. For example: you have 100 hp and 100 lf. if you take 100 damage in DS you are left with 100hp and 50 lf. But if you take 101 damage you’ll have 99 hp and zero lf.
Therefore it stands to reason that there is a 50% dmg reduction in DS as long as it doesn’t overflow to your regular hp.

Basically if u dont run carrion u will die to random burning procs. The difference is huge.