Guild Wars 2

Was thinking of coming back. When I left, Necro’s seemed to be the worst class in the game. Not very good in structured PvP and AOE zombies in WvWvW.

Are necro’s better since then? Are minion class/syphon classes viable?

On the PvP front, Necros are now on pretty much every competitive team due to their massive pressure damage that they provide which can easily overwhelm someone that screws up against a condition necro. Minion Masters are also viable in PvP.

In WvW, the major strength of a necro is in AoE presence. Then again, that’s the nature of WvW. AoE will always do better than single target. Minions are pretty much useless there outside of a MM zerg (which are devestating).

In PvE, we’re getting better with new boss mechaincs. Necros are still probably the least desired class in dungeons, but the newer content actually means a necro’s strengths in boon and condition manipulation are useful.

very good in wvw (aoes, perma ret, soft CC, fear, zerg wide protection, blind spam all over)

good in pvp (though -admittedly- i dont play spvp as much as pve or wvw)… alot of people say they’re OP… but i disagree

bad in pve, condis suck (condi caps,, taking time -which is bad- to ramp up and many encounters being very anti condi) and offers little useful group support that other classes cant do better

Honestly, they aren’t as viable in PvP anymore. Warrior meta is train-wrecking most Necromancers now, and we’re quickly going back to our pre-dumbfire amount of play on organized teams (ie, only good players like Zombify who know what they are doing still play them). Not that they are bad, but the new warriors hard-counter necros, and until they fall out of the meta more it’ll be hard going.

WvW we’re still pretty amazing, almost no zerg I know of doesn’t pick up a few Necros for their backline.

PvE we’re getting better, definitely not the worst but not the best. But then again, a 5 man Ranger team killed Lupicus in under 50 seconds, so PvE obviously isn’t the most challenging to matter.

Bhawb.7408:

definitely not the worst

any elaboration on this? any way i look at it; necro is the worst

In what way are we the worst? Its been shown that we have comparable direct damage DPS to non-warriors, with a much easier time going full glass than pretty much anyone and still being self sufficient. And that is just single-target. We are easily one of the strongest classes at dealing with mass mobs, so long as they can’t ping-pong CC us.

I have no idea how it was a year ago, but right know I’m really satisfied with the class.
We’re awesome for WvW because of the AoE and ability to outlive most enemies, even with Glass gear
On the PvE side I felt a bit lacking from time to time, but overall I enjoy it and not feeling bad with it
On the PvP side, I haven’t really tried it, but I hear we’re doing really well… Terrormancers pretty much destroy in PvP and lots of other classes feel intimidated when they see a Necro.

The only thing I feel all the time when playing a Necro is the lack of support :\
I feel like we’re a really selfish class and we have practically nothing to help allies, only ourselves…

Bhawb.7408:

In what way are we the worst? Its been shown that we have comparable direct damage DPS to non-warriors, with a much easier time going full glass than pretty much anyone and still being self sufficient. And that is just single-target. We are easily one of the strongest classes at dealing with mass mobs, so long as they can’t ping-pong CC us.

Delusional is a big word, but…

Bhawb.7408:

In what way are we the worst? Its been shown that we have comparable direct damage DPS to non-warriors, with a much easier time going full glass than pretty much anyone and still being self sufficient. And that is just single-target. We are easily one of the strongest classes at dealing with mass mobs, so long as they can’t ping-pong CC us.

You are right in what you say Bhawb and the problem now is that people are now aware of the flaws in Necro with the lack of CC prevention. If a Necro can stay on their feet long enough they can be competitive enough but if your against a group that knows what they are doing they will knock you all over the place and there is little to nothing you can do about it.

With Hammer Warriors being the new craze the knockbacks and knockdowns is flying all over the place and its tough going when your a Necro.

He was responding to us not being the worst in PvE, where CC is pretty rarely an issue, compared to other things.

Bhawb.7408:

In what way are we the worst? Its been shown that we have comparable direct damage DPS to non-warriors, with a much easier time going full glass than pretty much anyone and still being self sufficient. And that is just single-target. We are easily one of the strongest classes at dealing with mass mobs, so long as they can’t ping-pong CC us.

The damage is not high enough to make up for the classes shortcomings. Were really bad at dealing with mass mobs because of no cleave. Condi is the best way to get around that but it still has the same flaws as it does in all pve content. All classes actually help the group in various ways often with more than just utility stills. Necro only has high cd condi removal and blinds, everything else about the necro is completely selfish (could be fixed by making the boon on DS traits aoe). Necro is definately the worst in pve despite doing a lot better dps than engineers who are 2nd to last because of their vuln stacking ability.

To me necro is a high CD one-trick pony – for the niches where it’s viable:

• wells in wvw (~40s CD), make it wells + deathly perception for extra one-trick lulz
• fear combo in pvp (each fear has like a 40s CD untraited, I never trait more than spectral wall if at all)
• epidemic in pve (12s CD traited)

In the down-times necro is anything but spectacular – considering it brings nothing but autoattack damage in any build that can even be considered a damaging build.
I’m not even gonna mention pve wells as amazing pve aoe, kitten .

It brings immense front-loaded damage, which is cool in pvp settings (where necros is viable). Its sustained (non-cleaving) damage combined with no support at all makes necro suck in pve.

But maybe I’m just too unexperienced to know better!!11

Mark of Blood is about to be hit by a 33% nerf bat. So keep quitting. :P

I can say, man, I wasted 5-6 months playing, over 12 months of activity ingame and on forums, waiting for a balance.

They promised balance, all that we saw were nerfs, unbalance to make the class seem competitive for the last World Tourney (Dhuumfire), then nerfs to balance their errors(Nerf Torment), promises, fake buffs(Siphoning, Minion’s HP), declared ninja-nerfs (RIP Staff#4), nerfs.

It’s a nice game, but it’s a total fail if you play to be a Necromancer.

Bhawb.7408:

In what way are we the worst? Its been shown that we have comparable direct damage DPS to non-warriors.

to… non-warriors? you’re aware warrior is actually pretty mediocre damage wise? its liked for the offensive support and ease to play full zerk… IIRC many classes have higher potential DPS (guard, ele, thief and mes)

Bhawb.7408:

In what way are we the worst? Its been shown that we have comparable direct damage DPS to non-warriors, with a much easier time going full glass than pretty much anyone and still being self sufficient. And that is just single-target. We are easily one of the strongest classes at dealing with mass mobs, so long as they can’t ping-pong CC us.

- no cleave; so relying on utilities to aoe (unless you go condi… but condi sucks in pve because they take a while to ramp up -which doesnt happen in the current dps state of pve-, condi caps and many encounters being anti condi)

- no offensive group support beyond vuln (which suffers from condi caps, and most builds apply amounts anyway)

- no defensive group support beyond blinds (which guardian/thief does better) or heals (which are the worst form of group support in pve)

id love to hear what class has it worse than necro

yes necros have no mobility, stability, invuln, blocks etc.. no cleave as said above (our utilities are our main source of aoe), no real group support, no real access to fury or vigor.. our class mechanic, DS, is the only class mechanic that actually denies access to skills (almost like if mesmers had all their skills removed to use any of their shatters, including a cooldown on your skills when leaving that state)… and so on.

But if you’ve always just liked playing a necro in any game that offers that archetype then go for it XD. It is quite obviously the worst profession in this game hands down. Good luck though if you choose to stay with it. If the theme isnt such a bother then I would just say roll an engi who are just continuously served buffs to no end like the really hungry overweight spoiled child. XD I mean you really can’t go wrong with a mesmer or guardian etc.

If you really want to see how “super amazing” a necro is, roll a warrior and find a stunlock/stability build. Find a necro and take out all your anger lol Hahah. Don’t worry about his heath pool thats all he has to defend himself. Actually its far more amusing and worthwhile instead of it being a short-lived pounding. Have fun just bonk them around like beanbags XD

After you do that.. then make your final decision ^_-

I love how the mass weakness that necros can cause easily isn’t “defensive support”.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I love how the mass weakness that necros can cause easily isn’t “defensive support”.

except pve is about killing stuff before they can hit you; a guard giving out perma prot (33% damage reduction consistantly as opposed to weaknesses random ~25% whilst doing good damage -if properly specced- with a hammer), blinds (100% damage mitigation), aegis (100% damage mitigation) and projectile defence (damage mitigation varies per encounter; but its a hell of a lot… and then you have to factor in how the DPS from reflects makes encounters last less time effectively reducing damage the party is taking)

and im curious as to where this weakness comes from… because necro sacrifices a lot to obtain a decent weakness up time (especially when you factor in unshakable halving that duration)

Linguistically Inept.6583:

and im curious as to where this weakness comes from… because necro sacrifices a lot to obtain a decent weakness up time (especially when you factor in unshakable halving that duration)

Enfeebling Blood – 24% uptime
CPC – 37.5% uptime
Putrid Explosion w/ Death Nova – 50% uptime
Weakning Shroud – 40% uptime

If you have 100% uptime, those uptimes translate directly to unshakable durations.

But the real thing we do is put out poison fields, which give 5s of weakness per blast, and 8s per leap. And besides CPC, all of the things that cause weakness are things we’d already be taking regardless, so we aren’t “giving up” anything.

Bhawb.7408:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

and im curious as to where this weakness comes from… because necro sacrifices a lot to obtain a decent weakness up time (especially when you factor in unshakable halving that duration)

Enfeebling Blood – 24% uptime
CPC – 37.5% uptime
Putrid Explosion w/ Death Nova – 50% uptime
Weakning Shroud – 40% uptime

If you have 100% uptime, those uptimes translate directly to unshakable durations.

But the real thing we do is put out poison fields, which give 5s of weakness per blast, and 8s per leap. And besides CPC, all of the things that cause weakness are things we’d already be taking regardless, so we aren’t “giving up” anything.

so you’re using;
staff? a weak weapon for power builds (and weve already gone over how condi builds are kitten twice)
offhand dagger? weakest offhand; you lose reapers touch (vuln; multiplying the teams DPS… pretty much the only thing necro can do well in teams) and/or locust swarm (which does decent AOE damage and generates life force so you can sponge those hits that every other class can dodge because they have more endurance)
death nova? a death magic (horrible HORRIBLE trait line for optimal pve) grand master (meaning you’ve wasted 30 trait points)
bone minions? you have better things to be slotting
corrosive poison cloud? you’re slotting CPC and bone minions… you’re not helping the team as much as other options

weakening shroud is the only viable source of weakness and thats only because the only other trait worth taking in its place is reapers precision

with unshakable the uptimes you stated are;
Enfeebling Blood – 12% uptime
CPC – 17.75% uptime
Putrid Explosion w/ Death Nova – 25% uptime
Weakning Shroud – 20% uptime

12+17.25+25+20= 74.25% uptime

Last I checked, the majority of necros were either Condition (thus running Scepter/Dagger, Staff and Weakening Shroud) or Minion Master (thus running Death nova). This is even more true in PvP.

So yeah, power necros lose out on support. Condition necros don’t.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Last I checked, the majority of necros were either Condition (thus running Scepter/Dagger, Staff and Weakening Shroud) or Minion Master (thus running Death nova). This is even more true in PvP.

So yeah, power necros lose out on support. Condition necros don’t.

im debating pve, minion builds are trash in dungeons (for obvious reasons) and – as i already stated – condi builds are kitten in pve because of condi caps, taking time to ramp up (good groups burst stuff down before they can kill you) and so many encounters being anti condi (dredge fractal for example; does superheated increase condi damage?… or CoE golem mid boss; constantly cleansing)… and again; you lose out on vuln -THE best thing a necro can bring to a party-

Having just finished a slew of dungeon running with a MM build, I can confidently say that since the HP buff (and damage buff via Vampiric master), minions are actually pretty good in dungeons now.

In Fractals, people prefer a condition necro to a power necro because of the awesome power of Epidemic. In addition, the bosses there are not simple “Stack and DPS” fights, so the short build-up is not really a detriment when compared to the fact a condition necro can keep moving and keep up his DPS. The only time in Fractals where it is better to have a Power necro are on two bosses: Ice Elemental/Powersuit in Dredge fractal (a fractal many people skip if possible because of its length) and the ice elemental in Snowblind fractal.

In other dungeons, the speed difference isn’t noticeable unless you are trying to do organized speed runs. For everything else, the only time it makes a difference is if there are more condition builds in the group.

So I greatly disagree with “no support other than vulnerability”. Fears, Weakness, Blinds, and occasionally poison are all good support necros bring into dungeon environments as well. The main problem with necro support in dungeons is that, other than Aetherpath, boon and condition play just aren’t important enough.

Weakness is no good in pve since it has half duration on bosses and champs. Terrible up time. Only good for dredge trash because you cant blind them. Withering precision needs to be restored for necro to be properly good for weakness in pve though.