On the bright side, maybe they let us use CC now without interupting it
that;s never gonna happen
the point is consume just need to stay the way categorized as a universal good heal like guardian’s shelter
the other heels need to be brought up inline
Vamp signet’s passive need to be able to happen to up to 5 enemies OR reduce the icd and the active need to either heal more or active effect last longer
Well of blood need to pulse for more health or pulse condition removal
I agree, having a healing skill that puts you into combat seems really hurtful
It doesn’t put you in combat.
Cast corrosive poison cloud (or w/e that utility is called) and see if you’ll get in combat with the self weakness. Try the same with Epidemic. Does it put you in combat?
I know poison cloud doesn’t, but if epi doesn’t either, the consume conditions won’t either, 100%.
I’d write a bit more if I wasn’t on a train.... on a phone X_X
It doesn’t put you in combat.
Cast corrosive poison cloud (or w/e that utility is called) and see if you’ll get in combat with the self weakness. Try the same with Epidemic. Does it put you in combat?
I know poison cloud doesn’t, but if epi doesn’t either, the consume conditions won’t either, 100%.I’d write a bit more if I wasn’t on a train…. on a phone X_X
Both don’t I tested it already.
………………………………………………………….
So the best way to remove condis on a necro is going to give you 10 vuln stacks. This is one of the most bizzare penalities just to use a heal.
It doesn’t even apply the vuln to anyone else.
This is one of the most uncalled for things I have ever seen.
Is there another heal ingame that puts you in jeopardy when you use it? I have zero idea W T * they were thinking with this change.
I would prefer it if Anet simply left consume conditions as an uncategorized heal skill instead of categorizing it as corruption. In other words, leave it alone and don’t touch it for the upcoming patch.
It doesn’t put you in combat.
Cast corrosive poison cloud (or w/e that utility is called) and see if you’ll get in combat with the self weakness. Try the same with Epidemic. Does it put you in combat?
I know poison cloud doesn’t, but if epi doesn’t either, the consume conditions won’t either, 100%.I’d write a bit more if I wasn’t on a train…. on a phone X_X
Both don’t I tested it already.
Regardless of combat, can you even see using that skill because you have taken a lot of ac fire in WvW? Trying to get through a choke? Youre getting focused and now you need to heal, and right after that you take 10% more damage.
The condition they chose just doesnt consider why you need to use a heal in the first place other than you are low on health. They dont consider why you may be low on health at all.
Maybe they want us to use our other heal skills? I dont even use Consume Conditions in PvP and i do just fine staying alive. Wells all day long! I mean hell, we already have 2 life pools. Crying over 1 heal skill nerf, when they buffed everything else for us. Mostly.
Would people stop complaining if master of corruptions was like :
Master of Corruption: Reduces recharge of corruption skills by 33% but causes corruption skills to apply additional conditions to you when cast. (Condition applied varies per skill.) Corrupting a Boon converts a condition of yourself. ( Insert ICD here)
I think this is the worst change to anything since Han shot first!
gg Anet :p
This will totally wreck my pvp necro I heavily rely on consume conditions to actually do anything considering its the ONLY GOOD HEAL SHEESH
I have to agree with the OP. As much as some of the changes, especially the to blood magic, look very interesting, making Consume Condition a corruption skill might make sense thematically but in terms of actual gameplay this is a HORRIBLE decision.
PLEASE reconsider this and just leave it uncategorised just like you did with shelter for guardians.
Oh yikes. I jumped back on to see how pre-expansion events were unfolding, and I find out that, apparently, Consume Conditions clears all current conditions, then applies 10 stacks of Vuln. I need to go watch the stream, but did they at least increase the healing potential? Is there another viable heal we can use in place of CC, making it potentially situational?
Either way, if their idea is to make it so it synergizes with condition transfer builds, why would you opt to transfer conditions after you’ve just cleared them all? You end up blowing two clears just to put 10 stacks of Vuln on someone.
Is it because CC is clearly the best Necro heal? What about making some of the other heals actually useful?
Usually I can see a bright side to ANet’s decisions, but this is actually unjustifiable. What a crazily uneducated change.
Oh yikes. I jumped back on to see how pre-expansion events were unfolding, and I find out that, apparently, Consume Conditions clears all current conditions, then applies 10 stacks of Vuln. I need to go watch the stream, but did they at least increase the healing potential? Is there another viable heal we can use in place of CC, making it potentially situational?
Either way, if their idea is to make it so it synergizes with condition transfer builds, why would you opt to transfer conditions after you’ve just cleared them all? You end up blowing two clears just to put 10 stacks of Vuln on someone.
Is it because CC is clearly the best Necro heal? What about making some of the other heals actually useful?
Usually I can see a bright side to ANet’s decisions, but this is actually unjustifiable. What a crazily uneducated change.
There literally is no bright side to this, just as you see. All of our other heals were untouched, and they actually lowered our hps with CC by increasing the cooldown and making it so that we take even more damage if we trait it.
I told myself to walk away and re-roll after looking at the changes, I just can’t. Please revert Consume Conditions to the way it was.
Edit: Also there are traits that add more damage to vulnerable foes. Basically some of the professions can deal more than damage to us every time we heal. This is unfair to us.
(edited by MingYew.8521)
Maybe they want us to use our other heal skills? I dont even use Consume Conditions in PvP and i do just fine staying alive. Wells all day long! I mean hell, we already have 2 life pools. Crying over 1 heal skill nerf, when they buffed everything else for us. Mostly.
I play wellsteal necro and I can tell you that I know i’m sacrificing effectiveness by sticking with the well theme. Even though I have literally the entire build built around well ticks, I would be more effective with consume conditions on.
Well of blood is just crap and needs a buff more than CC needed to be touched at all.
Maybe they want us to use our other heal skills? I dont even use Consume Conditions in PvP and i do just fine staying alive. Wells all day long! I mean hell, we already have 2 life pools. Crying over 1 heal skill nerf, when they buffed everything else for us. Mostly.
I play wellsteal necro and I can tell you that I know i’m sacrificing effectiveness by sticking with the well theme. Even though I have literally the entire build built around well ticks, I would be more effective with consume conditions on.
Well of blood is just crap and needs a buff more than CC needed to be touched at all.
Well they did put all the Well traits into 1, which is very nice, and their uping the effectiveness of our Siphons. Honestly we all just need to wait for the patch to come out and see how this all plays out. I mean it seems they gave us more ways to heal and help out our teammates alot more than we used to. Shroud skill 4 changes. Ive always liked the Wells for PvP. Im more of a attack everyone and stay alive, more than trying to kill this 1 person kinda satisfaction.
Why nerf Necro’s only viable heal…rip…
Oh yikes. I jumped back on to see how pre-expansion events were unfolding, and I find out that, apparently, Consume Conditions clears all current conditions, then applies 10 stacks of Vuln. I need to go watch the stream, but did they at least increase the healing potential? Is there another viable heal we can use in place of CC, making it potentially situational?
. . .
Is it because CC is clearly the best Necro heal? What about making some of the other heals actually useful?
Not only did they not increase the healing, they did increase the base cooldown by 20%. And, what’s more, even with the disastrous nerf, it’s still better than the other heals, because of course those were not made competitive.
It doesn’t put you in combat.
Cast corrosive poison cloud (or w/e that utility is called) and see if you’ll get in combat with the self weakness. Try the same with Epidemic. Does it put you in combat?
I know poison cloud doesn’t, but if epi doesn’t either, the consume conditions won’t either, 100%.I’d write a bit more if I wasn’t on a train…. on a phone X_X
Both don’t I tested it already.
They dont put you in combat. But if you are already in combat they prevent you from getting out of combat. So if you take fall damage and use this skill you are stuck in combat for longer. Or if you just want to cleanse conditions to get out of combat faster you can no longer use Consume for this.
I’ve only recently (month or so) started to play necro, and was looking forward to trying it after the trait changes (more so than my warrior actually) .. until I saw this part.
I watched the Ready Up last night, they said they liked it having a nice thoughtful risk vs reward aspect… but why is it the only heal that does? It’s a heal, why would it EVER be a risk? It’s already easy to interrupt (and let’s not even mention the new Mesmer interrupt builds >.>)
They are trying to get away from “must have traits” and trait lines. And then they go and make it so we have NO VIABLE heals without taking a trait in curses. And even with that trait the heal isnt exactly amazing. it puts two condis on you. It has a massive cast time.
What a complete disaster.
Imagine if they said: Healing turret now has a 30s cool down. If you triat for it then it inflicts 2 condis on you but its now a 18s cool down. O and btw, that trait? Yeh, its not all upside. O and by the way engis, we put that trait (you know – the one u have to take on every spec to not be completely terrible for heals), yeh….we put it competing with incediary power.
Imagine that. If it happened about 17 devs would all rush to fix it after all the engis QQed.
That is what they have done to us. They have destroyed necromancers build diversity completely.
Conditions are about to become vastly more powerful than they were before, we have a skill that removes every single condition on us at relatively low cd on top of a heal, as well as condi necro damage output being buffed to the balls.
I think the consume conditions nerf/adjustment is fine as it is given how much more powerful and valuable condition cleansing is going to become post-23rd
That doesnt make sense. Surely if conditions are becoming more dangerous our cleanse should be buffed not nerfed?
That doesnt make sense. Surely if conditions are becoming more dangerous our cleanse should be buffed not nerfed?
To my knowledge (Though admittedly I don’t play other classes very much) we are the only clas capable of cleansing all conditions with one skill.
On top of this CC is a heal that is also immune to the poison heal reduction due to cleanses queuing before the heal queues.
Due to this, and the sheer impact it will have on attempting to use conditions against a necromancer, there needs to be some drawback to the use of CC.
Personally, I feel like 4 seconds is a tad too long and perhaps it should be lowered to two or so for a more reactionary approach, but I do agree with the overall decision to give some form of downside to the only skill I’m aware of that can totally cleanse someone of all conditions (on top of offering a poison-immune heal).
This is of course merely my own, personal, opinion looking at it from the sheer increase in value condition cleanses will experience post-23rd and necromancer’s already good level of condition management.
You would have a point if it was instant cast and if condition access wasnt also being buffed. But conditions are getting buffed in both potency and access. So all that time you take to cast or before you cast is time you lose more health. And then the vuln leaves you vulnerable to further condition pressure right afterwards. This potentially destroys the benefit of the heal in the first place.
In PvP players could save a secondary burst/condi burst for after the heal and take advantage of the vuln. It creates risk vs reward. But the reward seems to be weighted towards the enemy player. Which is kind of absurd for any skill (especially a heal).
And the whole getting stuck in combat after cleansing is really stupid. Id even take a nerf to the number of conditions cleansed over this iteration of the skill.
(edited by spoj.9672)
That doesnt make sense. Surely if conditions are becoming more dangerous our cleanse should be buffed not nerfed?
To my knowledge (Though admittedly I don’t play other classes very much) we are the only clas capable of cleansing all conditions with one skill.
Guardian, engineer, warrior and ranger (depending on your view) have also such a skill.
On top of this CC is a heal that is also immune to the poison heal reduction due to cleanses queuing before the heal queues.
Due to this, and the sheer impact it will have on attempting to use conditions against a necromancer, there needs to be some drawback to the use of CC.
Yes it’s called a cast time. Necro heals have the longest cast time on theri go to heal (it’s shared with shelter but that one blocks during the cast time).
Personally, I feel like 4 seconds is a tad too long and perhaps it should be lowered to two or so for a more reactionary approach, but I do agree with the overall decision to give some form of downside to the only skill I’m aware of that can totally cleanse someone of all conditions (on top of offering a poison-immune heal).
This is of course merely my own, personal, opinion looking at it from the sheer increase in value condition cleanses will experience post-23rd and necromancer’s already good level of condition management.
Also necro heals are also one from the lower hp/s if I’m not mistaken.
Has anyone here even stopped to think about what build they will go with. Has anyone here actually thought about what the new meta will be. Has anyone here even considered how much this change to CC improves condition builds. Of course not because the ones complaining here probably started playing a few months ago or doesnt even main necro.
To my knowledge (Though admittedly I don’t play other classes very much) we are the only clas capable of cleansing all conditions with one skill.
Take a look at guards and warriors.
I’m repeating myself but, self corrupt effect would be alright if we had traits that take advantage of it.
Let’s change Mark of evasion into Corrupted blood : each time you inflict yourself a condition or draw a condition from an ally you siphon life around you (radius 240, same siphon value as vampiric)
Let’s change Life for death into Thirst of the corrupted : each time you inflict yourself a condition or draw a condition from an ally you heal around you.
Let’s add to Unholy martyr : each time you inflict yourself a condition or draw a condition from an ally you also grant a boon. (Boon based on the convertion table) Decrease LF gain to the actual 5% it would be alright.
(edited by Dadnir.5038)
Has anyone here even stopped to think about what build they will go with. Has anyone here actually thought about what the new meta will be. Has anyone here even considered how much this change to CC improves condition builds. Of course not because the ones complaining here probably started playing a few months ago or doesnt even main necro.
Oh the l2p card. Havent seen that one before. /s
Has anyone here even stopped to think about what build they will go with. Has anyone here actually thought about what the new meta will be. Has anyone here even considered how much this change to CC improves condition builds. Of course not because the ones complaining here probably started playing a few months ago or doesnt even main necro.
Yes actally I go spite, blood magic soul reaping power necro. No curses and no transfers so CC is a nerf for me. Also how does an increased cooldown and extra vulnerability on your heal will help a condi necro when you have just cleansed your condi’s so transferring them is not a good option and the corruption trait competes with both terror and path of corruption?
Also I mained necro for at least 1 or 2 years now.
If they wanted to nerf CC, surely a better way would’ve been to cap the number of condi’s it removed? I’m really not a fan of balancing things around the expectation of a trait, it certainly seems like specific builds are expected to use specific heals… which probably still wouldn’t be too bad, if the other heals were even good enough to be considered.
Has anyone here even stopped to think about what build they will go with. Has anyone here actually thought about what the new meta will be. Has anyone here even considered how much this change to CC improves condition builds. Of course not because the ones complaining here probably started playing a few months ago or doesnt even main necro.
Yes actally I go spite, blood magic soul reaping power necro. No curses and no transfers so CC is a nerf for me. Also how does an increased cooldown and extra vulnerability on your heal will help a condi necro when you have just cleansed your condi’s so transferring them is not a good option and the corruption trait competes with both terror and path of corruption?
Also I mained necro for at least 1 or 2 years now.
Blood magic was improved, the siphons now works through shroud and there is quite a number of them on top of all the siphon sigils and runes. Think about how much time you spend in DS, think about the reaper spec and how much healing that line alone has, the attacks are faster which affects the blood magic line, and then there is the chilling nova, chilling force and blighters boon combo.
If you are going into blood magic then you are probably focused on healing, so not just from blood magic alone because if there is anything we know about Anet is that they dont allow players to be effective at doing any one thing using one single source.
Spite also has a healing trait and we know how fast a necro can burst with that line, so its not going to be hard to get the trait to proc often.
Imagine you are trying to balance the necro with all this in mind, are you trying to say that increasing the CD on consume conditions makes no sense?
Also one other thing, with these many changes it is possible you might have to rethink your combination. I run Curses Death Magic and Soul reaping, had a lot of success with it, more so than the meta but with all the new stuff, i will be changing it because a lot of the new traits seem to have gotten better at doing what i typically try to do. You might also have to change things up as well.
Blood magic was improved, the siphons now works through shroud and there is quite a number of them on top of all the siphon sigils and runes. Think about how much time you spend in DS, think about the reaper spec and how much healing that line alone has, the attacks are faster which affects the blood magic line, and then there is the chilling nova, chilling force and blighters boon combo.
Sorry to say it but most of us think about the “necromancer” not the “reaper”, because the day of the reapers are still far away in a long long and undetermined futur.
Otherwise, if you allow me to bet, I’d say that soon after this update, minion will be nerfed because a minionmancer with blood magic will have a stupidly high sustain while non minionmaster will struggle.
On an otherhand, more self inflicted condition wouldn’t be an issue IF we had option to be rewarded for them. Baseline nerf on the assumption that you will take a single trait is still an overall nerf for the profession and for diversity. And, since I’m at it, I want to point that support and debuff are 2 things that are vastly different (also, debuffing ourself is vastly different than buffing ourself).
Has anyone thought about the fact the Skill 4(Putrid Mark) with the staff also gets rids of your Conditions? Use CC and use that skill. We have SO many ways of getting rid of conditions. Wether that be with Wells, Corruption Skills, Staff, Heals, Etc.
Plus they buffed the Staff right off the bat. Increased the area of effect, cooldown by 20%, and damage by 10%, without any traits.
Has anyone thought about the fact the Skill 4(Putrid Mark) with the staff also gets rids of your Conditions? Use CC and use that skill. We have SO many ways of getting rid of conditions. Whether that be with Wells, Corruption Skills, Staff, Heals, Etc.
“Well,” the only well that cleanses conditions is Well of Power, and it has a long cooldown that does not make it worth popping with every heal. Saying our heal/corruption is a condi cleanse for the condition applied by said heal/corruption is ludicrous. Most importantly, the Vulnerability applied by the heal lasts long enough to be bursted down, but not long enough to transfer it (Which is risky) and actually make use of it. There is literally no way to justify the condi on condi cleanse. It is ridiculous and it hurts us no matter how you look at it.
Has anyone thought about the fact the Skill 4(Putrid Mark) with the staff also gets rids of your Conditions? Use CC and use that skill. We have SO many ways of getting rid of conditions. Wether that be with Wells, Corruption Skills, Staff, Heals, Etc.
And the fact remains that you have to follow your total cleanse skill with a cleanse skill. And also follow your heal with another skill just to prevent your own heal from getting you killed.
And the fact that by the time you can transfer 4 seconds of Vuln to an opponent, you’ve already lost a very significant portion of said duration.
Plus the whole thing of the fact the skill was balanced before and they nerfed it in literally all situations. Yes, traited, you have a shorter cooldown, but now you’re also taking 10% (or more) damage and have some other disability.
Has anyone thought about the fact the Skill 4(Putrid Mark) with the staff also gets rids of your Conditions? Use CC and use that skill. We have SO many ways of getting rid of conditions. Wether that be with Wells, Corruption Skills, Staff, Heals, Etc.
And the fact remains that you have to follow your total cleanse skill with a cleanse skill. And also follow your heal with another skill just to prevent your own heal from getting you killed.
And the fact that by the time you can transfer 4 seconds of Vuln to an opponent, you’ve already lost a very significant portion of said duration.
Plus the whole thing of the fact the skill was balanced before and they nerfed it in literally all situations. Yes, traited, you have a shorter cooldown, but now you’re also taking 10% (or more) damage and have some other disability.
This sums it up perfectly. Im am still having a hard time seeing how master of corruptions adds nothing but cooldown reductions barely, for more self damage. How is this cool? More random game changing self induced problems? This is fun? Wtf? These skills are so lackluster at best and totally kittened at worse
Then just pop the CC and go into Shroud. Done. It so pointless to constantly complain about this one nerf. Its 4s. Just dodge and dodge after you use the Heal. There’s at least 2 secs down. I mean come on, we’re the masters of condition manipulation. It will still heal us all the way basically. If you spec it it has an even shorter cooldown. If you rely so heavily on this 1 skill so much than you’re not playing Necromancer right. I just think its ridiculous that we’re all focusing on this 1 little thing here.
Coz we have so much Vigor to dodge all day all night. Hope you don’t have Blood spec tho so your dodge creates a mark that can be triggered to suck you into combat even longer. Why did they do that? After not having mobility the nibble on our normal movement now??
Blood magic was improved, the siphons now works through shroud and there is quite a number of them on top of all the siphon sigils and runes. Think about how much time you spend in DS, think about the reaper spec and how much healing that line alone has, the attacks are faster which affects the blood magic line, and then there is the chilling nova, chilling force and blighters boon combo.
Sorry to say it but most of us think about the “necromancer” not the “reaper”, because the day of the reapers are still far away in a long long and undetermined futur.
Otherwise, if you allow me to bet, I’d say that soon after this update, minion will be nerfed because a minionmancer with blood magic will have a stupidly high sustain while non minionmaster will struggle.
On an otherhand, more self inflicted condition wouldn’t be an issue IF we had option to be rewarded for them. Baseline nerf on the assumption that you will take a single trait is still an overall nerf for the profession and for diversity. And, since I’m at it, I want to point that support and debuff are 2 things that are vastly different (also, debuffing ourself is vastly different than buffing ourself).
Cmon man, reaper is i would guess 3 maybe 4 months away (most likely this year) Anet is going to consider the reaper line as they make these core spec changes. They wouldn’t rebalance based on the current game then over haul everything in just a few months.
Its a little shortsighted if anyone isn’t already considering what the classes will play like when HoT drops.
When you account for what the reaper shroud is capable of traited, heals like “Your Soul is Mine” might actually be useable, more so now with some of the core changes. If you can achieve a decent amount of cleanses and toss in some of the new healing traits, It is very possible to make Consume Conditions unnecessary, maybe even a bad choice since it has a long cast time.
Honestly i want to get rid of having to use Flesh wurm and consume conditions because that cast time is a problem when facing groups of good players with stun heavy builds
Yes actally I go spite, blood magic soul reaping power necro. No curses and no transfers so CC is a nerf for me.
And what would you call the massive heal options (you heal even when you’re in Shroud) you get from Bloodmagic?
Negligible?
Then just pop the CC and go into Shroud. Done. It so pointless to constantly complain about this one nerf. Its 4s. Just dodge and dodge after you use the Heal. There’s at least 2 secs down. I mean come on, we’re the masters of condition manipulation. It will still heal us all the way basically. If you spec it it has an even shorter cooldown. If you rely so heavily on this 1 skill so much than you’re not playing Necromancer right. I just think its ridiculous that we’re all focusing on this 1 little thing here.
4 second base. MORE if you have condition duration. And here is the thing, less people would complain if it was something else, or like 5 vul for just 2-3 seconds. But it’s 10 vul, 10% more damage, and extra 100 damage for every 1000 and most classes do more than that with their eyes closed. The heal itself is telegraphed, long cast and easily interruptible, and the only defense we have is DS which will interrupt the heal if we use it too early. Even if we use it far away, thieves and mesmers even warriors can close the gap easily.
Even if you take that away, the biggest baseline problem, Is that we are having to fight our own mechanics. No other class has to factor in their heal or skill is going to hurt them. It’d be fine if our skills did hurt us, but did something amazing, but they don’t. I wouldn’t even say they’re medicre, they’re disappointing!
My biggest problem with the change to consume conditions is that they nerfed the only heal skill without buffing any of the other heal skills. Everyone uses CC because the other heal skills are complete garbage. Everyone will still run CC after the patch because the other heal skills simply aren’t viable. Not to mention that CC is the only skill necromancers have that can reliably remove lots of conditions.
Respect to whoever had the guts to make the change and present it to the community with a straight face.
At least they could have upped the vamp signet or made well of blood something better, allow it to clear a condi or something.
#RevertConsumeConditions
This is the dumbest change I’ve ever seen.
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