Guild Wars 2

Can someone explain to me in simple terms why Viper is better than Rabid? I probably calculated wrongly but from what I got, it seems that Rabid does more damage per second?

I have a feeling Viper is better in the end because it increases condition duration so I end up having more stacks than had I used Rabid. Am I right?

As of now, I’m using Rabid stats, Sigil of Momentum, Flesh of the master and death nova + Rune of the undead to convert of all that toughness into more condition damage.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRUQNArYWjM0Q3N2UDe1A7NOKGi568eMYIR+F2B-TxRGABGfKAqSJYiq/Qz+DA8EAUS5Hb6bAA-e

So basically what you’re asking is: Am I doing more damage with ~150 extra condition damage from the Undead rune bonus than with an entirely offensive stat combo?
Answer: no.

If anything the question should be Viper vs Sinister. You can read up on that here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Sinister-vs-Viper/

To answer your question, the reason is that the power stat that Viper offers that Rabid does not boosts the direct damage of your attacks to the point where even though you are losing a little condi damage, you gain so much direct damage that it makes up for and exceeeds what you lose in condi, even with the toughness to condi trait and runes of the undead. You can still use both without the toughness boost from rabid, and come out ahead on overall damage.

Simply put, a bit more condi damage isn’t as good as additional stacks. If each bleed tick is say 100 damage, increasing it by 50% (more than 50% more condi damage) would not be as good as having an additional stack. That is what condi duration adds.

There is value in stronger condis, but it’s limited. A stronger condi might be better in a PVP setting where the condi’s are being regularly stripped before their duration is up. It’s also better in a burst damage situation. But, when burst damage is all that matters typically power damage will win out, or really it’s just so trivial of content that it doesn’t matter. If a boss lasts more than a few seconds then suddenly you’re in that ’i’d have additional stacks if I had max duration’ situation and duration is better.

Jerus.4350:

Simply put, a bit more condi damage isn’t as good as additional stacks. If each bleed tick is say 100 damage, increasing it by 50% (more than 50% more condi damage) would not be as good as having an additional stack. That is what condi duration adds.

There is value in stronger condis, but it’s limited. A stronger condi might be better in a PVP setting where the condi’s are being regularly stripped before their duration is up. It’s also better in a burst damage situation. But, when burst damage is all that matters typically power damage will win out, or really it’s just so trivial of content that it doesn’t matter. If a boss lasts more than a few seconds then suddenly you’re in that ’i’d have additional stacks if I had max duration’ situation and duration is better.

Thanks for this. So, yes, when it comes to condition damage, more stacks/more duration is better than more damage/second?

Which rune would you recommend to replace rune of the undead?

And how come Lingering Curse doesn’t seem to affect condition duration? Cos I tried making it all Rabid stats and the condition duration is at 0.00% but with just one Viper (Meteorlogicus), it’s 3.93%.

Lingering curse affacts base duration, which means its added after the rest of your condi duration and does not show up in the character window. Just look at it as a 50% bonus, and still shoot for 100% duration on top of that.

As for run of the undead,

2 trapper/4 nightmare runes
2 trapper/4 runes of the tempest
6 Rune of the thorn
6 rune of the krait
6 runes of the berserker (Best in slot)

All good options that will give similar dps with full viper armor

FrostDraco.8306:

Lingering curse affacts base duration, which means its added after the rest of your condi duration and does not show up in the character window. Just look at it as a 50% bonus, and still shoot for 100% duration on top of that.

As for run of the undead,

2 trapper/4 nightmare runes
2 trapper/4 runes of the tempest
6 Rune of the thorn
6 rune of the krait
6 runes of the berserker (Best in slot)

All good options that will give similar dps with full viper armor

Thanks. Any suggestions for more defensive runes? I feel quite vulnerable if I just max out condition duration with full viper armour and weapons. Is more vitality better or reducing incoming condition durations?

Modifying your original build, you could go (with runes left blank):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRUQNArYWjM0Q3N2UDe1A7NOMGq4PHAHgsD+gNYmCxQ4C-TRSFQBxRfgTUixgjAQCOEAjUJIAOBA9T9nGq8wXPAASBsoYL-e

You have no wells, so why trait it?

Some Viper’s trinkets can be acquired from Bloodstone Fen (amulet, ring, and backpack). Accessories require a raid kill and a lot of currency.

I wouldn’t worry about conditions on you, your minions take them from you and give them to whoever you’re hitting. If you want to use undead, then go undead. They’re solid runes, they’re just not top tier for DPS. What you really care about is 100% bleed duration and maybe poison.

If all you wanted to do was never die, you could go full our dire and still hit 100% bleed duration:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRUQNArYWjM0Q3N2UDe1A7NOMGKZH8BbwMFihwN+zBwBA-TRyBQBA4BAcj9HEl6PvUJ4FOEAU4EA8H9Ba4IA8RlfkCYRxWA-e

Just don’t expect any raid invites unless you’re also going to tank.

One more thing with condition duration, certain things like fractals have mechanics where a boss will lose all stacks of conditions (both bosses in chaos, snowblind, cliffside, volcanic, mai trin). A full condi stack will absolutely melt bosses, but it will go away at certain parts of the fight.

So while getting 100% bleeding duration is both smart and easy, I wouldn’t fret too much about also maxing out poison. You max out at 15 seconds of poison, which solo is 6-7 stacks and in raids is 12-13 stacks. Even if you had no condition duration you’d apply 3-4 stacks solo and 7-8 in raids. Yes, nice to have, but not really worth going all out for.

FrostDraco.8306:

Lingering curse affacts base duration, which means its added after the rest of your condi duration and does not show up in the character window.

Same result, but it’s actually “added” before. LC changes the scepter’s skills and those new ones are again subject to the regular 100% cap.

Hesacon.8735:

If all you wanted to do was never die, you could go full our dire …

Dire in PvE? Please don’t.
There are better ways to avoid dying than lowering your damage with tanky stats.

TimHellen.5903:

FrostDraco.8306:

Lingering curse affacts base duration, which means its added after the rest of your condi duration and does not show up in the character window. Just look at it as a 50% bonus, and still shoot for 100% duration on top of that.

As for run of the undead,

2 trapper/4 nightmare runes
2 trapper/4 runes of the tempest
6 Rune of the thorn
6 rune of the krait
6 runes of the berserker (Best in slot)

All good options that will give similar dps with full viper armor

Thanks. Any suggestions for more defensive runes? I feel quite vulnerable if I just max out condition duration with full viper armour and weapons. Is more vitality better or reducing incoming condition durations?

If you feel you need more tankiness use Parasitic contagion trait. Minions and plague sending, with dagger 4 make conditions a non issue on condi necro. Even with no vitality you have more hp than other classes in the same stat set.

Rabid adds toughness, which is strongly weighted in aggro calculations. Group PvE, like Raids, sometimes like to control the mob position via aggro so players not assigned to the task should minimize their aggro. Viper’s armor has minimal armor contribution.