Guild Wars 2

these are my personal opinions to help improve the necromancers versatility while trying to be on fair grounds.

necrotic grasp- Is overly aggressive, misses A LOT and has lower damage for a two handed weapon.(fix please)

Warhorn- only used for mediocre escapes. the daze isn’t self efficient enough for viability. just a low-end offhand in general. i suggest a -5 cooldown on weil of daze(free banshie weil on the daze), or for locus swarm- movement speed to 35% instead of 33% and cripple to 55% rather the 50% or 200-250 dmg per second. or add 1-2 lifeforce.
(these are pick one options. not make the necromancer op.)

minion utilities- they don’t heal themselves out of combat and have inferior health without flesh of the master. i suggest reducing the damage and increasing the health so it’s up to par with the other utilities or just a minor buff to their vitality. with this in mind jagged horror should have more health or re-place it with a new trait i made called “undead horde”(minions gain 20+ viatiality for each minion you control) including itself.

BUG- a lot of skills fail to work if you use them rapidly after another skill or from a quick turn/role.

traits can use some slight adjustments. blood magic in paticular

deathshroud should have a higher ratio off health or drain a tiny bit less when getting damaged.

spectral wall is very good but when you cast it on yourself or directly at your target it doesn’t apply till you actually pass through it. i’m sure this was intended but can you give me feedback on this. that would be swell…

wells- well of corruption increase duration from 5 to 10seconds. well of power- 20-30 less cooldown. well of surfing- less damage!(you could add 4% vunerability instead of 2%), 5-15seconds less cooldown. well of darkness- adds 1 second cripple per pulse, 10 seconds less cooldown.

corrosive poison cloud- increased radius to 300 or 5 seconds to all conditions.

signet of the locust-does not lose passive. plague signet- increases toughness by 100.(loses on cast) signet of spite- higher base power. signet of locust- gain health regeneration.

siphon… -.- one idea…. cast time 1 1/2, cooldown 15-25. healing 450-650 per pulse. 9 pulse decrease to 5. this should inspire some life steal builds who wanna play certain roles.

Corrupt boon- swap out -33 heal effectiveness with self bleed for 100-200dmg

spectral grasp- add decrease endurance regeneration by 50% for 5 seconds.

Spectal wall- increase duration by 3
.

Necromancer profession- passively gains 1% life force every 3-5 seconds of combat.

No thanks to anything.

1.) Warhorn is amazing and already used by most good Necros… it’s called perma-swiftness lol.
2.) Spectral Wall is working as intended and needs no duration increase (look at your traits and test things…)
3.) Corrupt Boon is already amazing
4.) Spectral Grasp already had a silent fix/buff with the LOS issues previously this last patch.

I think you’re focusing on the wrong aspect of necromancer, our utility skills for the most part are fine in my opinion. It’s our weapon skills that don’t compare to other classes, our weapons do subpar damage, control or support if you compare them to their counter-parts on other classes.

What I would like see changed;
Axe -
1 skill – either bounces or becomes melee and cleaves
2 skill – works in a cone area, like the warhorn 4 skill(potential cooldown or dps nerf)

Dagger –
1 skill – replace it with the life siphon that is currently the 2 skill on dagger(potential health stealing nerf)
2 skill – no idea, something single target and helpful, like a VERY short range blink or an instant cast slow.

Scythe/Greatsword -
a long range direct damage orientated weapon, no real suggestions, i just know it’s needed.

Realistic buffs? I would say the following:

1. You may now be healed in Death Shroud.
2. Death Shroud UI now shows boons and conditions.

Pretty short list and we’ve had confirmation that they are working on the second of those.

Talentless.5708:

No thanks to anything.

1.) Warhorn is amazing and already used by most good Necros… it’s called perma-swiftness lol.
2.) Spectral Wall is working as intended and needs no duration increase (look at your traits and test things…)
3.) Corrupt Boon is already amazing
4.) Spectral Grasp already had a silent fix/buff with the LOS issues previously this last patch.

I’ve recently taken up warhorn over focus to clear up another utility spot (remove spectral walk) so I concur with this. I wouldnt call it perma-swiftness but its enough if you’re with a zerg to get through the slow spots.

We dont need any more ranged options. Just need melee cleave or a massive overhaul of the axe auto attack.

If you can heal in DS I already have a build that would pretty much allow me to be unkillable. You can have a pretty good amount of healing as a necromancer in a crit build, if you go high vitality+crit, you can get 2 siphons per hit, plus 40k HP in DS, and the minute you pop out of DS you can pop spectral abilities to gain tons of life force (grasp alone gives 15% traited). You would never die.

Definitely need a UI update for it though.

And no thanks to anything else specifically suggested here. Certain things could be enhanced to give some more fun, but the ideas here aren’t good.

Haha, those realistic buffs are crazy. Let me help as to why

1. Necrotic Grasp – How can something be overly aggressive when it’s that slow. Staff is not meant to be an attack weapon it’s a support weapon the auto attack is there to hit something hard if you are dumb enough not to see it. It’s fine, though it’s annoying how slow it is at max range, but it does track your target.

2. Warhorn is fine – The problem here is you use it wrong. Couple Warhorn with Dagger, and you got one of the top damage setups in the game with wells. Putting our daze on a shorter cooldown coupled with the amount of immobilizes, fears, and slows we have. I can guarantee you, we could think of few ways to abuse that.

3. Haha, this would be hilarious overpowered in a multitude of situations, but wouldn’t solve the massive aoe wipe out that you are talking about. They would need close to the same health we have, and that would make them awesomely overpowered. Again this is because your perception of what the class is supposed to do is different than what reality dictates we do.

4. Your bug is not a bug we have channelling times that’s part of the class it won’t change.

5. This was done in beta 1 and there was a few necromancers who would simply point hold entire matches without being able to die.

6. Wells – They have traits that do this already (do you play the class). Plus 30 seconds less on well of suffering and an extended 10 second usage haha. no one would live through just the well. Besides getting someone to stay in it for 5 seconds is tough enough.

7. Signet of the Locust – Serious? that’s just stupid. you never lose the passive you just move faster than standard combat speed. Learn to play the game!

8. Siphon life – hahaa, so overpowered. Unkillable machines

9. Corrupt boon – No Idea why you want this.

10. Spectral Grasp – so you want the chill the pull the life force generation and weakness on one spell on a short cooldown. Why not have it be a blast finisher too, and do a 10k bleed while knocking the guy down?

Apparently realism is let’s make us overpowered so no one can kill us and we can do serious damage all the time.

The main thing i want is the ui on DS fixed. I can live without cleave but it would be nice seeing as necro’s are frontline aoe casters and the utility caster (mesmer) gets a really strong melee weapon instead of us. Everything else seems fine to me. Condition builds could be buffed in someway but I wouldnt know exactly how other than making the traits synergize more.

If I wanted to do smaller buffs/fixes, it would look something like this.

Class Mechanic
- Death Shroud UI fixed. You can now see what boons and conditions you are affected by.
- Life Force gained when in Death Shroud is equal to the amount gained when something is killed in regular form.

Spectral
- Spectral Armour cooldown reduced to 60 seconds.
- Spectral Grasp pathing tweaked. It’s now less likely to be obscured by smaller elevation changes and targets are more likely to be pulled the full distance.

Corruption
- Corrupt Boon now functions like Epidemic; it checks for LoS/targeting only at the beginning of its cast.
- Corrosive Poison Cloud now ticks every 1.5 seconds as opposed to every 3.
- Epidemic cast time reduced to 2/3rds of a second.

This isn’t touching weapon skills, bigger/more idealistic buffs, traits, or the abilities of other classes.

Bas.7406:

Haha, those realistic buffs are crazy. Let me help as to why

1. Necrotic Grasp – How can something be overly aggressive when it’s that slow. Staff is not meant to be an attack weapon it’s a support weapon the auto attack is there to hit something hard if you are dumb enough not to see it. It’s fine, though it’s annoying how slow it is at max range, but it does track your target.

2. Warhorn is fine – The problem here is you use it wrong. Couple Warhorn with Dagger, and you got one of the top damage setups in the game with wells. Putting our daze on a shorter cooldown coupled with the amount of immobilizes, fears, and slows we have. I can guarantee you, we could think of few ways to abuse that.

3. Haha, this would be hilarious overpowered in a multitude of situations, but wouldn’t solve the massive aoe wipe out that you are talking about. They would need close to the same health we have, and that would make them awesomely overpowered. Again this is because your perception of what the class is supposed to do is different than what reality dictates we do.

4. Your bug is not a bug we have channelling times that’s part of the class it won’t change.

5. This was done in beta 1 and there was a few necromancers who would simply point hold entire matches without being able to die.

6. Wells – They have traits that do this already (do you play the class). Plus 30 seconds less on well of suffering and an extended 10 second usage haha. no one would live through just the well. Besides getting someone to stay in it for 5 seconds is tough enough.

7. Signet of the Locust – Serious? that’s just stupid. you never lose the passive you just move faster than standard combat speed. Learn to play the game!

8. Siphon life – hahaa, so overpowered. Unkillable machines

9. Corrupt boon – No Idea why you want this.

10. Spectral Grasp – so you want the chill the pull the life force generation and weakness on one spell on a short cooldown. Why not have it be a blast finisher too, and do a 10k bleed while knocking the guy down?

Apparently realism is let’s make us overpowered so no one can kill us and we can do serious damage all the time.

did you even read the post? 30 seconds less on well of suffering??
sounds like you’re deliberately trying to be arrogant.

keep in mind this post was meant for structured pvp to help increase versatility. not hinder the project just to meta.

Furienify.5738:

If I wanted to do smaller buffs/fixes, it would look something like this.

Class Mechanic
- Death Shroud UI fixed. You can now see what boons and conditions you are affected by.
- Life Force gained when in Death Shroud is equal to the amount gained when something is killed in regular form.

Spectral
- Spectral Armour cooldown reduced to 60 seconds.
- Spectral Grasp pathing tweaked. It’s now less likely to be obscured by smaller elevation changes and targets are more likely to be pulled the full distance.

Corruption
- Corrupt Boon now functions like Epidemic; it checks for LoS/targeting only at the beginning of its cast.
- Corrosive Poison Cloud now ticks every 1.5 seconds as opposed to every 3.
- Epidemic cast time reduced to 2/3rds of a second.

This isn’t touching weapon skills, bigger/more idealistic buffs, traits, or the abilities of other classes.

These are good and realistic changes, although I think that you would see an increase in the CD of Epidemic was brought down.

Bas.7406:

Furienify.5738:

If I wanted to do smaller buffs/fixes, it would look something like this.

Class Mechanic
- Death Shroud UI fixed. You can now see what boons and conditions you are affected by.
- Life Force gained when in Death Shroud is equal to the amount gained when something is killed in regular form.

Spectral
- Spectral Armour cooldown reduced to 60 seconds.
- Spectral Grasp pathing tweaked. It’s now less likely to be obscured by smaller elevation changes and targets are more likely to be pulled the full distance.

Corruption
- Corrupt Boon now functions like Epidemic; it checks for LoS/targeting only at the beginning of its cast.
- Corrosive Poison Cloud now ticks every 1.5 seconds as opposed to every 3.
- Epidemic cast time reduced to 2/3rds of a second.

This isn’t touching weapon skills, bigger/more idealistic buffs, traits, or the abilities of other classes.

These are good and realistic changes, although I think that you would see an increase in the CD of Epidemic was brought down.

Putting Corrupt boon and Epidemic on same cooldown (25 or 20) with a 3/4 cast time and as epidemic right now is in terms of requirements would be amazing (especially if corrupt boon cannot be dodged like epidemic), but i dont see that happening since it would give a set outside of wells of one type utility only that would work…

I know it’s rude to point out typos, but I lost it at “well of surfing”. The most bodacious utility skill.

Softspoken.2410:

I know it’s rude to point out typos, but I lost it at “well of surfing”. The most bodacious utility skill.

The problem with well of suffering is that it does too much damage. and wells in general have high cooldowns for easily dodge-able skills without being “binded” down. that being said you see how am trying to prevent one hit burst builds? try not to be so miserable; you might like it.

Bas.7406:

Furienify.5738:

If I wanted to do smaller buffs/fixes, it would look something like this.

Class Mechanic
- Death Shroud UI fixed. You can now see what boons and conditions you are affected by.
- Life Force gained when in Death Shroud is equal to the amount gained when something is killed in regular form.

Spectral
- Spectral Armour cooldown reduced to 60 seconds.
- Spectral Grasp pathing tweaked. It’s now less likely to be obscured by smaller elevation changes and targets are more likely to be pulled the full distance.

Corruption
- Corrupt Boon now functions like Epidemic; it checks for LoS/targeting only at the beginning of its cast.
- Corrosive Poison Cloud now ticks every 1.5 seconds as opposed to every 3.
- Epidemic cast time reduced to 2/3rds of a second.

This isn’t touching weapon skills, bigger/more idealistic buffs, traits, or the abilities of other classes.

These are good and realistic changes, although I think that you would see an increase in the CD of Epidemic was brought down.

yeah lets bring down the cooldown on the overplayed spectral armour down even more! haha

I put some serious time and effort into this. and to think that you’re not even putting thought behind your answers is just frustrating.

I appreciate that you have put thought into making the class better, it really is good to have people who care for the class and honestly want to make it better. That said, I honestly think that when you are releasing things like suggested buffs, that you really, really need to look at yourself and think, “Do I really understand the class, and how it is played in the various game modes, and the highest levels of those modes?”. If you cannot answer a yes, or at least a kind of (where you know how necromancers and their skills work in a single game mode), then you should hold off on posting these things, or you will receive some hard flak from people.

The problem with what you posted, is that it is glaringly obvious you cannot answer yes to the question I listed above. The really generic things you listed, some of those are okay suggestions. The real problems are things like your minion buffs. It seems like you don’t understand the real intention for how some things are to be used. Warhorn is an absolutely amazing weapon for dagger mainhand users, and any bunker. Minion skills are actually very good as is.

So just take some time off from thinking of how to improve the class and posting it, and instead doing what you can to talk to more skilled and knowledgeable people, and then once you have the expertise, you can make posts like this and do well.

Give Necrotic Grasp 100% chance to combo finish. Or at least 50%.
The delays between the attacks are so long that it’s not exactly gonna stack a ton of effects either way. (Except maybe with Quickness from a Mesmer…)
It’d be fun to use with Spectral Wall for a bit of Confusion, for example.

I think Spectral Grasp is good as it is.
Pulls interrupt, and with the right traits it also generates a lot of Life Force over time.
In PvE you can use it to pull mobs off squishies and to interrupt some slow attacks, and in WvW you can use it to drag people off walls.

Warhorn very is good for building Life Force when surrounded by enemies, and also makes it hard for things to get away from you.
The Daze is an AoE cone, which is pretty nice, although it’s cast time is rather long imo.
Nice weapon when paired with Dagger, an another weapon with a melee-range Life Force building skill.

Also the Swarm hits quite often which makes it help you trigger the Crit Sigils on your Dagger.

On top of this (last I tried it!) it doesn’t get removed when you enter DS.
It continues building Life Force for you if you stick close.

Corrosive Poison cloud isn’t amazing, but it’s not that bad either.
Doesn’t need a trait to be placed at range and if you have taken cooldown reduction for Corruptions (For Epidemic or BiP) then this skill has a rather short cooldown.

It could probably use a small buff, but it’s already helpful in Dungeons vs enemies that apply Regeneration if your team lacks Poison.

Although to be honest I do feel it’s just overshadowed by Wells in many builds.
I tend to just use Well of Corruption vs regen.
However Wells have long cooldowns, so I dunno.

Reflexmonkey.1943:

yeah lets bring down the cooldown on the overplayed spectral armour down even more! haha

Why would anybody use that skill? I don’t get it.
Is Protection really that good? 6 sec for 90 cooldown worth it?
Or is it good in sPvP for Life Force build up?

I don’t really play sPvP and in PvE I find both Spectral Walk and Plague Signet rather good.
Plague Signet removes both Stuns and Conditions and Spectral Walk’s Swiftness and teleportation are both very handy tools in Dungeons and WvW.

I don’t know, but I’d imagine Plague Signet to be better for stunlocks etc. since it also removes Immobilize and throws it on the opponent?

Personally I’d like to see Spectral Armor give Stability- at least in PvE.
Even 5 sec or so would be nice.
It feels like a waste to use an Elite or a Grandmaster trait whenever you need a bit of Stability for w/e.

However if Spectral Armor really is good and I’m underrating it then perhaps I should try using it more.

I use spectral armor in my vitality DS based bunker build. Traited, it is on a 72 second CD, and if you use it when you are at decently high HP with low LF, it can actually often bring your LF to near full if you have 2+ people attacking you, and that protection helps soak up damage. It isn’t underrated, it just isn’t worthwhile in most necromancer builds, far too long of a CD for just a stun break, you need to be able to make use of everything it offers.

Bhawb.7408:

I appreciate that you have put thought into making the class better, it really is good to have people who care for the class and honestly want to make it better. That said, I honestly think that when you are releasing things like suggested buffs, that you really, really need to look at yourself and think, “Do I really understand the class, and how it is played in the various game modes, and the highest levels of those modes?”. If you cannot answer a yes, or at least a kind of (where you know how necromancers and their skills work in a single game mode), then you should hold off on posting these things, or you will receive some hard flak from people.

The problem with what you posted, is that it is glaringly obvious you cannot answer yes to the question I listed above. The really generic things you listed, some of those are okay suggestions. The real problems are things like your minion buffs. It seems like you don’t understand the real intention for how some things are to be used. Warhorn is an absolutely amazing weapon for dagger mainhand users, and any bunker. Minion skills are actually very good as is.

So just take some time off from thinking of how to improve the class and posting it, and instead doing what you can to talk to more skilled and knowledgeable people, and then once you have the expertise, you can make posts like this and do well.

yes… i’ll admit i didn’t use the dagger/warhorn as much as i wanted to but like i stated before this was meant for pvp and the necromancer as a profession lacks escape mechanisms in pvp. so why not make the warhorn that tool?

as far as the class goes. i think i have a fair share of playing necro to see what can use some adjustment… just over 1000+ matches just solely as necromancer and have many hours in pvp/wvw so please don’t make assumptions about knowledge i understand some of these “buffs” aren’t meant for wvw or pve but a moderate moved my post to this sub-forum. and they’ve also fixed a lot of issues since i updated this. like auto attack dagger…. you use to have to spam it. but if you actually read my post these aren’t over powered suggestions for pvp there just increasing the versatility. and if you can’t see that sir then we disagree. except for the minions. i agree they do a LOT of damage but that’s why i wanted to reduce their damage and increase their health. but even without the trade there is a lot of good counters i.g when you take out the flesh golem, you’re left at a disadvantage. idk why this has any relevants but i’m drunk have a nice day !

I agree the Spectral skills need some attention. Minion, Corruption, and Wells builds are all strong enough to play as standard builds but not Spectral. Cool-down on Spectral Armor is too long while up-time on it is too short. Spectral Wall is easy to avoid and its boon/condition is too short, also.

Because the Necromancer is short on battle mobility skills, Spectral Armor and Wall are not strong enough to provide adequate survivability buffs. Spectral Walk and Grasp are both half-way decent battle mobility skills but traiting for them shorts other trait lines while not traiting for them adds a lot of capability. Power and particularly the toughness trait lines are very attractive for damage and utility. The precision line has Focused Rituals and the critical damage line has DS buffs.

A spectral build seems meant for a conditionmancer build with improved mobility and reduced incoming damage but it is not strong enough to match other common builds. I would love to play it, though. A Spectral build could be great in PvE dungeons where bosses spam AoE that would knock out minions too quickly for my tastes. I used to run Spectral Grasp as a knock-down but had trouble with it after the patch to bosses that nerfed Fear. More up-time on Spectral Armor and something else to replace Spectral Wall like a Spectral Teleport or some other gap-closer/opener could make the build worthwhile.

Anchoku.8142:

I agree the Spectral skills need some attention. Minion, Corruption, and Wells builds are all strong enough to play as standard builds but not Spectral. Cool-down on Spectral Armor is too long while up-time on it is too short. Spectral Wall is easy to avoid and its boon/condition is too short, also.

Because the Necromancer is short on battle mobility skills, Spectral Armor and Wall are not strong enough to provide adequate survivability buffs. Spectral Walk and Grasp are both half-way decent battle mobility skills but traiting for them shorts other trait lines while not traiting for them adds a lot of capability. Power and particularly the toughness trait lines are very attractive for damage and utility. The precision line has Focused Rituals and the critical damage line has DS buffs.

A spectral build seems meant for a conditionmancer build with improved mobility and reduced incoming damage but it is not strong enough to match other common builds. I would love to play it, though. A Spectral build could be great in PvE dungeons where bosses spam AoE that would knock out minions too quickly for my tastes. I used to run Spectral Grasp as a knock-down but had trouble with it after the patch to bosses that nerfed Fear. More up-time on Spectral Armor and something else to replace Spectral Wall like a Spectral Teleport or some other gap-closer/opener could make the build worthwhile.

I have never disagreed with a post more. The Spectral Armor CD is excessive, but if I want protection I’ll use the 48sec CD traited Spectral Wall instead.

Spectral Walk + Warhorn = perma swiftness, not to mention the escape features of teleport.

Spectral Wall + axe/focus = 20+ insta vulnerability stacking.

3rd utility doesnt have to be spectral grasp to warrant using your spectral cd in Soul Reaping or Spectral’s Curses Master trait. 3rd Utility is interchangeable based on what you are doing – ie epidemic for zergs, corrupt boon/signet of undead for havoc, etc.

Why would anybody use that skill? I don’t get it.
Is Protection really that good? 6 sec for 90 cooldown worth it?
Or is it good in sPvP for Life Force build up?

I don’t really play sPvP and in PvE I find both Spectral Walk and Plague Signet rather good.
Plague Signet removes both Stuns and Conditions and Spectral Walk’s Swiftness and teleportation are both very handy tools in Dungeons and WvW.

I don’t know, but I’d imagine Plague Signet to be better for stunlocks etc. since it also removes Immobilize and throws it on the opponent?

Personally I’d like to see Spectral Armor give Stability- at least in PvE.
Even 5 sec or so would be nice.
It feels like a waste to use an Elite or a Grandmaster trait whenever you need a bit of Stability for w/e.

However if Spectral Armor really is good and I’m underrating it then perhaps I should try using it more. [/quote]

the reason why people don’t use plague signet over spectral armour is because it doesn’t fit their build when they just want the stun break. specially if you can just transfer the conditions with other skills or consume. it’s more like a support utility.

but who knows right…. a lot of people follow meta and once you see a famous player using it you might see this signet more than spectral armour.

@ Talentless: I am not sure perma-swiftness and vulnerability stacking are enough to justify the specialization in Spectral skills. I know you like your configuration for WvWvW but there are other setups that seem more powerful in zerg and in tower defense. In PvE, Signet of the Locust is almost as good as perma-swiftness without having to spend trait points or use warhorn. Minionmaster in PvP and PvE is really powerful. I just have not seen enough benefit come from traiting for Spectral skills since before Signet of the Locust was improved when Spectral Walk and warhorn were the only options for swiftness. When fighting PvE bosses, other professions stack plenty of vulnerability.

I actually run 3 spectral skills in my bunker build. Spectral wall + Spectral grasp right away forces the enemy to go through the wall, plus gives me LF (and I can easily walk through it myself for protection, twice). Spectral armor is my go to skill when I am low on LF and need to tank through attacks and gain tons of LF fast.

I rarely run a full bunker build. Conditionmancer / light mobile artillery is too valuable in WvWvW for me to go off looking for 1v1 battles. Not saying I hate Spectral skills. On the contrary, I like Spectral Grasp and Spectral Walk quite a bit but I do not trait for them because I cannot afford to make a Spectral-specific build when other builds for minions, conditions, etc, are a higher priority.

@reflexmonkey – The replies people have given you are thought out solutions to your desired changes. The problem is you think anyone who disagrees with you some random troll that just wants to smash you down. The Necromancer community is one of the best in the game in terms of helpful advice.

Your buffs are overkill. Spectral Skills are the least used utility outside of Signets. Minions, Corruption, and Wells are the most common utilities for a reason. They provide more than just niche specific play. Your decision to buff already strong tools and completely disregard any comment that attempts to show you a better alternative will get you trolled.

Spectral specific builds are a niche mainly based around bunker builds or DS LF generation builds. They are hit and miss type utilites and in high end tournament play you want to eliminate a lot of hit and miss type abilities which is why you see Meta builds. In lower end tournament play or wvwvw or pve you can run niche builds and do relatively well, but as teams get smarter than you see fewer spectral builds.

Yesterday Bhawb and I tested a Might stacking build thanks to Akame for the suggestion. I will probably do a video and discuss the pros and cons of it later today. It’s actually really strong build in pve, and the idea Bhawb floated to me was if it woudl be cool if we could do something like that in tournaments. We talked about bumping up the speed of Life Blast and how that would benefit, the problem we found was if they increased life blast I could keep a stack of 25 might and 25 vulnerability indefinitely, as it was I hovered around 15-18 stacks on a consistent basis in testing.

So you see how a simple “buff” could great an overpowered meta build.

So

spoj.9672:

We dont need any more ranged options. Just need melee cleave or a massive overhaul of the axe auto attack.

Deffinitly need a long ranged power option.

DS 1=900 range power weapon.

Bhawb.7408:

DS 1=900 range power weapon.

DS #1, oh yes im convinced…

Edenwolf.6328:

Bhawb.7408:

DS 1=900 range power weapon.

Nice try, but no. Its funny atcually, its like necros are against having a ranged power option.

Every class is limited to a single 1200 range weapon without traits and a single 900 range weapon. All staves are utility weapons on every class, and for most classes the 900 range is a scepter . In our case we also have a 600 range weapon (axe/focus).

If you are confused as to how a 600 is ranged than let me direct you to basic math. When something is next to you we call it melee, if something is farther away from next to you it’s considered ranged. Since melee is considered anything within 200, and axe is at 600. Basic math says 600>200 therefore 600 axe = range power weapon. Since DS 1 > 600 therefore DS 1 = ranged

Bas.7406:

Edenwolf.6328:

Bhawb.7408:

DS 1=900 range power weapon.

Nice try, but no. Its funny atcually, its like necros are against having a ranged power option.

Every class is limited to a single 1200 range weapon without traits and a single 900 range weapon. All staves are utility weapons on every class, and for most classes the 900 range is a scepter . In our case we also have a 600 range weapon (axe/focus).

If you are confused as to how a 600 is ranged than let me direct you to basic math. When something is next to you we call it melee, if something is farther away from next to you it’s considered ranged. Since melee is considered anything within 200, and axe is at 600. Basic math says 600>200 therefore 600 axe = range power weapon. Since DS 1 > 600 therefore DS 1 = ranged

I’m sorry if you failed to read the rest of the thread, but I said long ranged power option.

Most of everything you said is also false, there is no rule that every class can have only 1 1200 range option, in fact, rangers have 2 1200 ranged weapons, and technically so does guardian. About the bit on staves being utility only, ele staffs deal heavy aoe dps, and to say necro staff is utility only is false, its a key compontent in dealing aoe condition damage. You should probly refer to basic class mechanics/abilitys and then edit your false information.

Edenwolf.6328:

I’m sorry if you failed to read the rest of the thread, but I said long ranged power option.

Ignoring what bas and bhawb have already said, you know, there is this thing every necro should carry, its a big stick, you use it to smack people, from 1410 range, with giant black claws that home for 1200 range and then fly straight for another 210 (distance to middle of a mark then range of ranger greatsword attack from the middle of it). If you really dont want to use DS, but still have long range and do direct damage, use it, since you wont get another option.
Weapons that might happen in terms of effects is aoe control/projectile reflection offhand and melee cleave.

Edenwolf.6328:

Bas.7406:

Edenwolf.6328:

Bhawb.7408:

DS 1=900 range power weapon.

Nice try, but no. Its funny atcually, its like necros are against having a ranged power option.

Every class is limited to a single 1200 range weapon without traits and a single 900 range weapon. All staves are utility weapons on every class, and for most classes the 900 range is a scepter . In our case we also have a 600 range weapon (axe/focus).

If you are confused as to how a 600 is ranged than let me direct you to basic math. When something is next to you we call it melee, if something is farther away from next to you it’s considered ranged. Since melee is considered anything within 200, and axe is at 600. Basic math says 600>200 therefore 600 axe = range power weapon. Since DS 1 > 600 therefore DS 1 = ranged

I’m sorry if you failed to read the rest of the thread, but I said long ranged power option.

Most of everything you said is also false, there is no rule that every class can have only 1 1200 range option, in fact, rangers have 2 1200 ranged weapons, and technically so does guardian. About the bit on staves being utility only, ele staffs deal heavy aoe dps, and to say necro staff is utility only is false, its a key compontent in dealing aoe condition damage. You should probly refer to basic class mechanics/abilitys and then edit your false information.

I will reiterate the part you missed (Every class is limited to a single 1200 range weapon without traits). Everything the ele is does is heavy aoe and it is well known that the staff is really their utility weapon. Your failure to understand this is not on me. The staff can be used in power builds as well as condition builds, because it’s key component is that it provides a lot of utility (condition removal, fear, chill, regen).

Andele.1306:

Edenwolf.6328:

I’m sorry if you failed to read the rest of the thread, but I said long ranged power option.

Ignoring what bas and bhawb have already said, you know, there is this thing every necro should carry, its a big stick, you use it to smack people, from 1410 range, with giant black claws that home for 1200 range and then fly straight for another 210 (distance to middle of a mark then range of ranger greatsword attack from the middle of it). If you really dont want to use DS, but still have long range and do direct damage, use it, since you wont get another option.
Weapons that might happen in terms of effects is aoe control/projectile reflection offhand and melee cleave.

Ok so spam staff 1 and DS 1, thats a mighty strong long range power option :P

Bas.7406:

Edenwolf.6328:

Bas.7406:

Edenwolf.6328:

Bhawb.7408:

DS 1=900 range power weapon.

Nice try, but no. Its funny atcually, its like necros are against having a ranged power option.

Every class is limited to a single 1200 range weapon without traits and a single 900 range weapon. All staves are utility weapons on every class, and for most classes the 900 range is a scepter . In our case we also have a 600 range weapon (axe/focus).

If you are confused as to how a 600 is ranged than let me direct you to basic math. When something is next to you we call it melee, if something is farther away from next to you it’s considered ranged. Since melee is considered anything within 200, and axe is at 600. Basic math says 600>200 therefore 600 axe = range power weapon. Since DS 1 > 600 therefore DS 1 = ranged

I’m sorry if you failed to read the rest of the thread, but I said long ranged power option.

Most of everything you said is also false, there is no rule that every class can have only 1 1200 range option, in fact, rangers have 2 1200 ranged weapons, and technically so does guardian. About the bit on staves being utility only, ele staffs deal heavy aoe dps, and to say necro staff is utility only is false, its a key compontent in dealing aoe condition damage. You should probly refer to basic class mechanics/abilitys and then edit your false information.

I will reiterate the part you missed (Every class is limited to a single 1200 range weapon without traits). Everything the ele is does is heavy aoe and it is well known that the staff is really their utility weapon. Your failure to understand this is not on me. The staff can be used in power builds as well as condition builds, because it’s key component is that it provides a lot of utility (condition removal, fear, chill, regen).

What you fail to see is that every weapon has utility, equal to, greater, or lesser than staves. Ele is a prime example, their mechanic is versatility in any shape or form, all their weapons and attunements bring different types of utility, not at all limited to staff. In Ele’s case, their weapon choice dictates at what range they would like to play from.

Ranger, guardian and mesmer have 2 1200 ranged weapons untraited. This right here allows ANY class to have 2 1200 ranged options without breaking the mold.

Just a few examples of none staff related utility:

Guardian Mace/shield- Great group utility here, equal to that of staff.

Necro scepter- Condition damage, poison and aoe cripple.

Guardian hammer- Lots of crowd control, high damage, aoe protection buff.

Ele- daggers can give many aura’s, when traited those aura’s are shared to all those around. Dagger also brings heavy cc and plentiful strong healing skills to heal allies. I would say a support dagger ele brings even more ulility to the group then a staff ele.

I’m not saying staves don’t have any utility, I’m just pointing out that they, like most other weapons, share utility and dps based skills.

Not every skill is 1200 range on items such as a scepter for guardian… for example orb of Wrath is 1,200 but Chains of Light is 900. Wave of Wrath on the staff for guardian is 600… so some skills have 1,200 but not every single one of them.

Utility =/= damaging abilities in the case I believe he is trying to describe. A utility that he is looking is condition removal, applying boons, healing, etc…. not doing damage such as applying bleed or a direct damage. For necros, the abilities on a staff have more utility along with the damage that the marks do… Mark of Blood not only bleeds the target but can apply a regen to allies. Putrid mark transfers conditions from allies to foes. Reapers mark fears.. etc. They all also have a combo field activator that does further abilities.

Takarazuka.3025:

Not every skill is 1200 range on items such as a scepter for guardian… for example orb of Wrath is 1,200 but Chains of Light is 900. Wave of Wrath on the staff for guardian is 600… so some skills have 1,200 but not every single one of them.

Utility =/= damaging abilities in the case I believe he is trying to describe. A utility that he is looking is condition removal, applying boons, healing, etc…. not doing damage such as applying bleed or a direct damage. For necros, the abilities on a staff have more utility along with the damage that the marks do… Mark of Blood not only bleeds the target but can apply a regen to allies. Putrid mark transfers conditions from allies to foes. Reapers mark fears.. etc. They all also have a combo field activator that does further abilities.

I made sure to point out skill on other weapons that have secondary effects that benefit group situations, not just deal damage. I feel that one must include forms of cc as well when talking about utility.

Would you say staff ele brings more support to a group or a support spec dagger ele?

Edenwolf.6328:

Ok so spam staff 1 and DS 1, thats a mighty strong long range power option :P

If you want direct damage, Life Blast with piercing / vulnerability stacking (and with might stacking, if you’re into that) is a legitimate ranged strategy. The major caveat is just keeping your life force above 50%. At that point, it outdamages the staff and axe auto-attack. (Ranged power options) It even out-damages the dagger chain if you’re hitting more than one target.

Softspoken.2410:

Edenwolf.6328:

Ok so spam staff 1 and DS 1, thats a mighty strong long range power option :P

If you want direct damage, Life Blast with piercing / vulnerability stacking (and with might stacking, if you’re into that) is a legitimate ranged strategy. The major caveat is just keeping your life force above 50%. At that point, it outdamages the staff and axe auto-attack. (Ranged power options) It even out-damages the dagger chain if you’re hitting more than one target.

I appreciate what your trying to do but spamming 1 skill being DS 1 is neither fun, reliable(only useful above 50%) or long range(long range being a minimum of 1200 ft.

Please spare me with the “dont like it, play x class,” I’m just pointing out my opinion on what buffs I would like to see for the class that would complete my experience.

@bas- THE PROBLEM IS THERE ARE TROLLS OUT THERE. AND YOU AND YOUR IDIOT FRIEND ARE TWO OF THEM. not all these replies are “thought out solutions” judging from your previous comment. i can care less if you agree or disagree but when it’s not constructive discus about the profession and it’s just negative attitude than yeah i tend to get annoyed. here’s what you said. not from your previous statement but this recent one. “Your buffs are overkill. Spectral Skills are the least used utility outside of Signets. Minions, Corruption, and Wells are the most common utilities for a reason.” i’m confused i thought my post wanted to buff spectral skills, signets, corruption and nerf well of suffering’s damage? and wells are not the most played utility in pvp because of their high cooldowns it would be either minions or mixed as of this meta. try playing the game before commenting to more knowledge players bhawb would say. hey wait a minute….. isn’t that your friend? and you don’t think that’s arrogant? but constructive? yeah i see your thought process now… troll

You might want to familiarize yourself with what arrogance is before you start throwing the word around. I’d also suggest you tone it down, there is no need to be aggressive, regardless of what other people are posting.

The fact is that your suggested fixes are not in line with what really needs to happen with the class, or are just flat out based on erroneous ideas. Then when people posted to argue their side, you freak out and call them trolls.

Bhawb.7408:

You might want to familiarize yourself with what arrogance is before you start throwing the word around. I’d also suggest you tone it down, there is no need to be aggressive, regardless of what other people are posting.

The fact is that your suggested fixes are not in line with what really needs to happen with the class, or are just flat out based on erroneous ideas. Then when people posted to argue their side, you freak out and call them trolls.

instead of trying to argue with me why not post your opinions for what needs to happen? exactly.

We need DS UI fix, we need some fixes to Charge, and something to allow minions to better for boss fights. And signets could use some love. Beyond that, I think we need minor number tweaking on our skills.

Bhawb.7408:

We need DS UI fix, we need some fixes to Charge, and something to allow minions to better for boss fights. And signets could use some love. Beyond that, I think we need minor number tweaking on our skills.

thank you

@Reflexmonkey.1943
Let me try to retrun to topic, first about your suggested changes:
Necrotic Grasp – Needs 100% finisher and a bit faster projectile speed, true, other changes arent needed since it would really make a necro withot staff utter kitten (forcing into builds is bad).

Warhorn – Locust swarm is probably the best ability from all offhands in terms of class functions, the swiftness/cripple aint so important, but the additional life force generation and multiple hits (for vampiric/procing on crit stuff/shields that are based on hit counts).
Daze is a nice aoe, no real change needed (but it would be nice if it didnt have a actual travel time but be instant on the conal aoe).

Cant comment on minions since i still think we should be able to summon multiple by locking off Death Shroud as a grandmaster death trait.
Death Magic itself does need minior trait rewamps since it doesnt provide worth if not specialized.

Blood Magic Traits – just give them scailing (or a current small base + % max hp).

DS in general needs to be revealed (how it takes armor and hp into account, real numbers DS can tank, why it doesnt stunbreak when traited with Foot in the Grave, etc) and UI fixed.

Spectral Wall – all wall effect skills work that way, i do hope that they turn it into a dome instead of just a wall or make a trait for it.

Wells – general 30 second cooldown on all wells = all problems about them solved, balanced by current setup.

CPC – full rework, freaking asura racial is better than it.

Signets… well even i cant reply to this one till we would know how the rest would work out but they do need tweaking.

Dagger – Dark pact cast reduction to 1/2, Life siphon is good as it is

Corrupt Boon and Epidemic – 1/2 cast time on each, 25 seconds cooldown on each, detection like underwater and Corrupt Boon not being projectile based anymore.

Spectral Grasp – Since they homogenized the other 2 pulls in game to be of same net max range, just make it teleport the enemy to 240 range infront of you and chilled, nothing else is needed, just making it 100% hit unless dodged = perfect.

Replace downed skill 3 with zombie transform. Become a random risen, from risen chicken to abomination. Works like vengence.

Raptured.9307:

Replace downed skill 3 with zombie transform. Become a random risen, from risen chicken to abomination. Works like vengence.

You know that Downed 3 is pretty much a poison version of Well of Suffering, right?