Guild Wars 2

So I was messing around in the new patch, testing the new sig and something I often ignored occurred to me. Jagged Horrors… These little buggers where mostly an afterthought, but I noticed I was indeed getting a few more then usual thanks to the patch. In a 2 minute even fight I had 3 to 4 of the little buggers chasing me around at constant.

Then it dawned on me, just how much of a buff this was to MM’s.

Not only does each new jagged give me a 20+ toughness increase, but when the little buggers expire they also proc death nova ((30 point death magic trait)) This now means instead of having 1, maybe 2 ticking time bombs chasing me about. I now have 3 to 4, that not only increase my survivabilty by a half decent amount… 80 extra toughness is a good increase. But each one is going to pop for 3k and poison.

Did I mention they life siphon as well?

I hadn’t actually been able to decide the usefulness of this till I actually got into the patch, and honestly, i’m surprised and more then a bit happy.

Give it time, they will nerf it and give it a 29 second cool down lol

This was a nice buff to the trait. One of the other core issues still remains (they only proc after-death, which in certain places makes the trait meaningless), but that is fine now that they announced their plans to combine it with Death Nova and make a totally new trait for that spot anyway.

For now though, its nice to have a few more of the buggers running around.

I would rather it be a Chance on crit, Say 50% Chance on crit with 10second cool down. How much damage do they actually do?

Pls shhhh

Reanimator will get nerfed again if we don’t delete this post.

Because everyone knows Necros can’t have good traits

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I would rather it be a Chance on crit, Say 50% Chance on crit with 10second cool down. How much damage do they actually do?

A surprising amount once you factor in their bleeds. Jagged Horrors don’t do a lot of damage up front, but they add up quickly. Apparently there is a maximum of 8 from Reanimator, but also a separate pool from Lich Form (you can get 2 Mark of Horror casts in Lich Form if you time it right).

Now I want to see if I can get 18 of the little buggers up at once. I highly doubt it, but it could be a lot of fun to see.

Yeah i try and get 2 marks up, some times i can some times i cant. I think if it had like 1 second cool down reduction then it would be possible every time. Kinda tempted to move 5 points from Soul Reaping and the 50% Crit buff into it and see what its like, i have like 50%ish crit chance as it is anyway. This trait would also benefit all the time rather than just during DeathShroud.

They could be really cool and make it so that the Death Nova trait heals for Life Force when procced near us while in DeathShroud

But how do you keep up just 1 if fighting against a boss?.

Azzer.8137:

But how do you keep up just 1 if fighting against a boss?.

Meh. PvE is boring. I spend 90% of my time in WvW, some times 100% of my time some days.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I would rather it be a Chance on crit, Say 50% Chance on crit with 10second cool down. How much damage do they actually do?

On Crit traits in a non-crit giving tree, especially one like Death Magic where people going into the tree rarely want crit-chance, wouldn’t be good.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Now I want to see if I can get 18 of the little buggers up at once. I highly doubt it, but it could be a lot of fun to see.

I am 99% sure there is an internal cap of 5.

Bhawb.7408:

On Crit traits in a non-crit giving tree, especially one like Death Magic where people going into the tree rarely want crit-chance, wouldn’t be good.

In that Case. 25% chance on crit, No cool down. Would make it worth getting. Reduce the number you can have out. Maybe even make it so that every time you get a proc that summons 1 to many the oldest one is “sacrificed” and gives you either Life Force or Health depending on if you are in DeathShroud or not.

Literally no standard MM build runs any crit chance, why tie a trait based on one build to a trait that that build almost never wants.

Bhawb.7408:

Literally no standard MM build runs any crit chance, why tie a trait based on one build to a trait that that build almost never wants.

Tying aspects to it, such as the heal idea would mean that MORE different builds would actually then WANT to use it.

This is part of the problem, to much of the trees are just too un-useful for other builds.

Bhawb.7408:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Now I want to see if I can get 18 of the little buggers up at once. I highly doubt it, but it could be a lot of fun to see.

I am 99% sure there is an internal cap of 5.

This I can garuntee is not the case. I’ve had 10 jagged horrors from Lich Form alone.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

This I can garuntee is not the case. I’ve had 10 jagged horrors from Lich Form alone.

Reanimator has the max, not lich form.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Tying aspects to it, such as the heal idea would mean that MORE different builds would actually then WANT to use it.

This is part of the problem, to much of the trees are just too un-useful for other builds.

The one build that wants it the most would have no standard access it, that doesn’t make sense.

Azzer.8137:

But how do you keep up just 1 if fighting against a boss?.

You don’t, you have other pets for this, the idea is to start with a few of the little buggers and just let them suicide death nova the boss. Overall for a minor trait this is very cool.

Bhawb.7408:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

This I can garuntee is not the case. I’ve had 10 jagged horrors from Lich Form alone.

Reanimator has the max, not lich form.

Ah, my mistake. The wiki says the max is 8. It may be in need of updating.

If you like PvE, PvP or WvWvW doesn’t change the fact that it’s still fairly useless trait for PvE necromancers, for WvWvW it’s good but the game should be for all modes of the game not just one or two.

Azzer.8137:

If you like PvE, PvP or WvWvW doesn’t change the fact that it’s still fairly useless trait for PvE necromancers, for WvWvW it’s good but the game should be for all modes of the game not just one or two.

It just seems its ONLY good for Minion Master builds and that is BAD for us as a class having so many traits that are seemed “pointless” unless you play a specific build. Look at Mesmer, look at Elementalist sure they have traits do work great for certain builds BUT they can also be good for other builds.

For example – Taking “on Death” traits or “Shatter Traits” as a Phantasmal Mesmer, they add that little extra option should you need them.

Which is why the trait is being combined into Death Nova, and we’re getting a whole new 5 trait, which I said originally.

I’ve grown to like my jagged horrors even for zerk build. I can now have flesh golem, rock dog and very likely 2 jagged little horrors it’s pretty fun. Only thing I find useless is not being able to get any fluffy horrors when 1v1.

Bhawb.7408:

Which is why the trait is being combined into Death Nova, and we’re getting a whole new 5 trait, which I said originally.

Got a link to it?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Bhawb.7408:

Which is why the trait is being combined into Death Nova, and we’re getting a whole new 5 trait, which I said originally.

Got a link to it?

I would very much like a link too.

This both worries me and makes me happy. If they remove death nova entirely I would be a bit upset. But a buff like that to horrors, could mean I could venture into blood for the condition removal. Or boon removal on minion hits.

WereDragon.6083:

I would very much like a link too.

This both worries me and makes me happy. If they remove death nova entirely I would be a bit upset. But a buff like that to horrors, could mean I could venture into blood for the condition removal. Or boon removal on minion hits.

Would this ONLY work on the summoned minions via the 5point trait or from ALL minio0ns. If its just the 5point trait minions thats a BIG nerf to Minion Master builds but that could be very good for others.

No, they simply add the functionality of Reanimator to death nova. Death Nova would then cause Death Nova as it does right now, and summon a jagged horror on enemy death.

JonPeters.5630:

We will talk today about changing duration on weakening shroud instead of cooldown .

Also we have some plans for death magic including merging reanimated with death nova, and moving Protection of the Horde to be a major trait, and then reworking the minors in this line. This kind of change is not going to happen for dec 10 for 3 reasons.
1) testing time
2) implementation time
3) most importantly: if we rework this we want to make sure it is correct the second time around so we will take our time deciding on the “right” design.

Point 3 is something I’m happy to discuss here to list some ideas and break down some pros and cons.

Thanks,

Jon

Bhawb.7408:

No, they simply add the functionality of Reanimator to death nova. Death Nova would then cause Death Nova as it does right now, and summon a jagged horror on enemy death.

JonPeters.5630:

We will talk today about changing duration on weakening shroud instead of cooldown .

Also we have some plans for death magic including merging reanimated with death nova, and moving Protection of the Horde to be a major trait, and then reworking the minors in this line. This kind of change is not going to happen for dec 10 for 3 reasons.
1) testing time
2) implementation time
3) most importantly: if we rework this we want to make sure it is correct the second time around so we will take our time deciding on the “right” design.

Point 3 is something I’m happy to discuss here to list some ideas and break down some pros and cons.

Thanks,

Jon

Well that sucks. I wonder what they are replacing reanimator with. More like they cant be bothered to spend time on it. Seeing as the mess that SoV has become…

Its good :P it is a straight buff to Death Nova, which was essentially the only skill that made Jagged Horrors really good on their own. Other than that they aren’t that great (though not terrible).

They’ll probably replace it with an actual defensive skill, for the defensive tree.

Bhawb.7408:

Its good :P it is a straight buff to Death Nova, which was essentially the only skill that made Jagged Horrors really good on their own. Other than that they aren’t that great (though not terrible).

They’ll probably replace it with an actual defensive skill, for the defensive tree.

Right so from the change it will cause enemies to “explode” into Death Nova and then summon a minion?

Interesting, I wonder what the minor will get replaced with

Can you list your build WereDragon. I’m swapping some stuff around and would like to give it a shot, thanks.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Right so from the change it will cause enemies to “explode” into Death Nova and then summon a minion?

Enemies don’t proc Death Nova…

I read it wrong, so basically they arent changing either of them. Just putting them into 1 trait…whats the point? You can beat the new 5point trait will be just as useless to EVERYONE bar Minion Master builds anyway.

Knowing Anet, They will bug the hell out of it and make the new trait to be something WORSE than the current reanimator trait -.-

I played around with this a little today. It’s pretty good IMO.
Having 5 jagged horrors up in a fight is nice, it’s extra DPS and procs death nova not to mention health siphon if speced that way. Is anyone using transfusion to keep these guys up longer? Is it worth it even: more potential jagged horrors + utility minions for more damage/toughness/siphon etc, or let the little buggers die for the nova?

I disagree; I do not believe that this trait is that useful.
It is useful only to those who are traited to be minion masters. What about people who want to go into the toughness line just for the staff, or for the boon duration? I don’t think it should be here; just because there are more that can be alive at once doesn’t mean it’s a whole lot better. We need a new trait.

Remove the recharge on the trait, move it up to grandmaster as a major trait, remove the degenoration on the minions. Still not good for PvP, but it might help make an interesting PvE build.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Right so from the change it will cause enemies to “explode” into Death Nova and then summon a minion?

No. Killing an enemy will spawn a Jagged Horror. Your minions explode into a poison cloud when they die.

Literally merging both the minor adept trait with the grandmaster major and not changing a thing between them in the process.

….That’s the hope, anyways.

i hope they make it cooldownless ;D so that when we go in wvw and theres tons of people dying around you get to have 20 jagged horror smashing everything they can hit and bleeding everyone ooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhh the zombi apocalips

no seriously make it cooldownless and have it work like aura of the lich in GW 1 procing an army of minion. Minion master deserve this buff and this would likely make them more valuable to groups in pve

still i cant wait to try it…

If they move reanimator to the grandmaster then dark armor should fill the 5 slot. I don’t know how happy I would be about moving reanimator to a grandmaster but that’s only because now that we can actually have them out often enough to land some hits, I made a condi build using them and after the change I would have to go grandmaster in death just to get it which would ruin my build. But oh well, live and adapt I suppose.

why dont they just make it so that all minion cause bleeds on hit?

If they got moved to Grandmaster, they better be buffed. More health and have the cool down reduced to 5 seconds at most. Currently, they are not strong enough to be worthy of being combined into a Grandmaster trait.

This is really going to be annoying. I won’t be able to take Minion Master, minion hp buff and staff CD reduction, ugh. Can’t function without those 3. Hopefully they get creative and merge Protection of the Horde in with the hp buff or something. Really wish they’d put the staff cd reduction as an adept in another tree too.

Bhawb.7408:

they announced their plans to combine it with Death Nova and make a totally new trait for that spot anyway.

What are they planning for Death Nova?
Wouldn’t be surprised if they completely screw over Minion Builds as well. >_>

kyubi.3620:

i hope they make it cooldownless ;D so that when we go in wvw and theres tons of people dying around you get to have 20 jagged horror smashing everything they can hit and bleeding everyone ooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhh the zombi apocalips

no seriously make it cooldownless and have it work like aura of the lich in GW 1 procing an army of minion. Minion master deserve this buff and this would likely make them more valuable to groups in pve

still i cant wait to try it…

actually, there is a cap on 8 set into the game. At least that’s what I’ve read. So you would have 8 horrors.

Glenn.3417:

What are they planning for Death Nova?
Wouldn’t be surprised if they completely screw over Minion Builds as well. >_>

Literally just slapping Reanimator on Death Nova.

Seriously, no offense, but I don’t understand why this has been so hard to understand for so many. Take Reanimator, put its effect into Death Nova, that’s it. It isn’t special.

In response to the removal of Reanimator, they will add a trait that has usefulness to all builds going into Death Magic (generally defensive builds), and is actually a defensive trait.

Bhawb.7408:

Glenn.3417:

What are they planning for Death Nova?
Wouldn’t be surprised if they completely screw over Minion Builds as well. >_>

Literally just slapping Reanimator on Death Nova.

Seriously, no offense, but I don’t understand why this has been so hard to understand for so many. Take Reanimator, put its effect into Death Nova, that’s it. It isn’t special.

In response to the removal of Reanimator, they will add a trait that has usefulness to all builds going into Death Magic (generally defensive builds), and is actually a defensive trait.

Exactly. When I made a thread to discuss new ideas for those minors, it basically got ignored by most, but many of those who did post kept talking about how to change Reanimator and Protection of the Horde, completely ignoring what Jon Sharp had already said regarding them (which I had linked in the first post!).

Bhawb.7408:

No, they simply add the functionality of Reanimator to death nova. Death Nova would then cause Death Nova as it does right now, and summon a jagged horror on enemy death.

JonPeters.5630:

We will talk today about changing duration on weakening shroud instead of cooldown .

Also we have some plans for death magic including merging reanimated with death nova, and moving Protection of the Horde to be a major trait, and then reworking the minors in this line. This kind of change is not going to happen for dec 10 for 3 reasons.
1) testing time
2) implementation time
3) most importantly: if we rework this we want to make sure it is correct the second time around so we will take our time deciding on the “right” design.

Point 3 is something I’m happy to discuss here to list some ideas and break down some pros and cons.

Thanks,

Jon

Interesting. I’ve been away for a while so this is the first I’ve seen of this. Sounds good overall. I am curious though what they intend with Protection of the Horde, it’s not terribly great even as a minor, I don’t think it would stand on it’s own at all as a major unless it gets reworked a lot or simply gets merged with Minion Master or Flesh of the Master (that’s the minion HP one right?)

And on topic I must say as Minion Master I’m all for any and all reanimator buffs.

Yeah, Flesh of the Master is the minion HP trait.

However, Jon already stated that they will not be merging Protection of the Horde with Flesh of the Master. Since one is far better than the other, it just means PotH will never see use unless they do a major rework on it.

Protection of the Horde can be deleted and forgotten as far as I’m concerned.

The changes are allowing me to keep up 3-6 at anyone time (even using non MM builds) in prolonged fights. The little buggers can dish out and maintain about 4-8 stacks of bleed, give LF on death and can be used for Death Nova bombing.

I’m liking them so far. Not a big deal but a nice surprise regardless.

Still waiting like others to see if/what a new traits will replace Reanimator and/or PotH.

I’d like to see PotH be replaced with something like gaining Retaliation (2 or 3 seconds) when stunned, personally.