Guild Wars 2

Death’s Charge

Many skills (Burning Speed Ele fire dagger 3, Heartseeker thief dagger 2, etc) can be shortened via use of the camera. Can we please reintroduce that into Death’s Charge (and Revenant staff FWIW)?

Many times the charge just over shoots the target and is clunky in melee. Can we not work it like Burning Speed to control our movement?

1) All these changes are amazing except maybe Soul Eater. I like the originality of it before in terms of cool down reduction. Also don’t like the idea of all the lifesteal being tossed onto one skill which if blocked or prevented negates the entire effect.

2) I don’t know if it’s just me but the animation and damage application from Death Spiral didn’t seem synced up at times. The damage would be applied well after the animation started.

3) This one’s really petty but can the animation of Nightfall rotate in the same direction the player character rotates their greatsword? Currently the player characters spins the greatsword counter-clockwise while the spiral animation of Nightfall is clockwise.

Changes to chilling force mean you can take str runes and str/battle sigils and still maintain a lot of might without the spite line. So this opens up a few more build options. All these changes are perfect!

@Robert Gee
Do you know if there are any plans to have DeathShroud function like ReapersShroud in regards to weapon swapping sigils?

This element to RS was something i felt added a nice layer to it as well as made some sigil choices more useful. Would be something i think DS would benefit from. Not only that but if it was normalised in the weapon it used ( think RS uses hammer?? ) then there wouldnt be any inconsistencies in DS with regards to damage based on weapon type.

I’m surprised (pleasantly so) that Reaper isn’t simply being heavily nerfed. I should probably be optimistic, but that’ll probably happen before or shortly after launch -_-

Sigmoid.7082:

Changes to chilling force mean you can take str runes and str/battle sigils and still maintain a lot of might without the spite line. So this opens up a few more build options. All these changes are perfect!

@Robert Gee
Do you know if there are any plans to have DeathShroud function like ReapersShroud in regards to weapon swapping sigils?

This element to RS was something i felt added a nice layer to it as well as made some sigil choices more useful. Would be something i think DS would benefit from. Not only that but if it was normalised in the weapon it used ( think RS uses hammer?? ) then there wouldnt be any inconsistencies in DS with regards to damage based on weapon type.

While might can be kept up without Spite, we’d lose the extremely powerful Close To Death, which gives us a 20% bonus damage when we want it most, during our gravedigger tornado spam.

My comments copied & paste from reddit:

I have no qualms about their damage. However, despite all these amazing improvements, will it be sufficient for Necros to have a place in PVE in HOT as a viable class? That is the biggest question I have right now. Considering that till date, I still face auto-consensus of vote-to-kick in fractals, or seeing LFG with titles stating they do not want necros/rangers. All I really want is to play my Necro in all aspect of the game (and be generally accepted like any other class).

I would appreciate the replies of Devs or anyone that can provide any information to boost the confidence level in this regard.

Captain Unusual.9163:

Sigmoid.7082:

Changes to chilling force mean you can take str runes and str/battle sigils and still maintain a lot of might without the spite line. So this opens up a few more build options. All these changes are perfect!

@Robert Gee
Do you know if there are any plans to have DeathShroud function like ReapersShroud in regards to weapon swapping sigils?

This element to RS was something i felt added a nice layer to it as well as made some sigil choices more useful. Would be something i think DS would benefit from. Not only that but if it was normalised in the weapon it used ( think RS uses hammer?? ) then there wouldnt be any inconsistencies in DS with regards to damage based on weapon type.

While might can be kept up without Spite, we’d lose the extremely powerful Close To Death, which gives us a 20% bonus damage when we want it most, during our gravedigger tornado spam.

Its already not taken in a few pvp builds in which i was referring to. Because you can drop spite due to might still being relatively accessible you can pick up things like curses or blood magic hence more build options to explore.

“Rise!”: Updated minion models. Increased vitality and toughness of minions by 33%, but decreased minion power by 40%. This skill now summons one minion by default plus one additional per target hit. Shambling Horrors now apply Dark Bond to their master as soon as they are summoned but must still attack to maintain the bond.

Minion master Reaper can have up to 11 minions now *_*

How I see this:

no Dmg Nerfs
Gravedigger got slightly better (Life Steal)
CttB got shorter CD
Shorter CD on my Favourite Shout, NcSY
Like me they consider Blighters Boon balanced
Buff to Chilling Nova
———————-

Soul Eater sry still not attractive choice
Still to weak Heal compared tp Consume Conditions
Suffer is still underwhelming

And Grasping Darkness seems to be as much a mystery to Devs as it is to us

I like most of it tho

Now can we please have CttB work under water please? I really want to be able to run something other than Plagueform.

Otherwise, nice changes.

Chilling Nova still needs a buff, as does Reaper auto; and imho Greatsword still needs to be 1/2 s cast on all 3 attacks or decrease the aftercast some. Also Augury should be split into a base reduction and then x% per target struck.

Man, Robert Gee is really doing a great job on Reaper. He is the one dev that is actually listening to the community. The changes on CttB are everything what we asked for. Pretty reasonable.
Now the only change is missing is CttB work underwater. We don’t want to always use plague underwater, CttB could have some nice use and fits the thematic, since you can think as “freezing the water”.

Good job, man!

Lynnie.7213:

Man, Robert Gee is really doing a great job on Reaper. He is the one dev that is actually listening to the community. The changes on CttB are everything what we asked for. Pretty reasonable.
Now the only change is missing is CttB work underwater. We don’t want to always use plague underwater, CttB could have some nice use and fits the thematic, since you can think as “freezing the water”.

Good job, man!

Also, what apparently everybody forgets, we have “Frozen Abyss” already, so the concept exists. Actually, Frozen Abyss is the one skill I wished for since the beginning to be a land skill…25 cd chilling, vulnerability causing blastfinisher…the wet dream of most Necromancers I’d say. Why is it not a land skill q.q

The changes are good and I can’t wait for the next BWE.
Thank you for listening to the community!

I hope they copy our bank anew so I can test ice runes and sigils.

Robert Gee.9246:

• Chilling Nova: Increased damage by 50%. Increased number of targets from 3 to 5.

I feel the Reaper has enough AoE damage. I’d like to see this trait boost single target damage while keeping the AoE chill. Unless the new content requires insane AoE, then I take back everything I said. Still Augury of Death competes for the same use case scenario: fighting against many foes.

Robert Gee.9246:

• Soul Eater: Changed recharge reduction to a flat 20% without conditionals. Lifestealing from this trait increased significantly but the lifestealing now only applies to Gravedigger. (Approximately 140-180 health.)

I still have some reservation with GS life leach and it was noticeable only with Death Spiral. I’ll see in the next BWE how it works out.

Lynnie.7213:

Man, Robert Gee is really doing a great job on Reaper. He is the one dev that is actually listening to the community. The changes on CttB are everything what we asked for. Pretty reasonable.
Now the only change is missing is CttB work underwater. We don’t want to always use plague underwater, CttB could have some nice use and fits the thematic, since you can think as “freezing the water”.

Good job, man!

I agree finally a Dev that listens, feels the room and adapts. Still think 90s on CttB is abit high and we lost a few seconds of Chill (wich Im fine with) I know that with AoD trait we can get it lower but I also think of 1v1 situation wich basicly still renders that AoD trait almost useless. I like the changes and our Feedback is recieved and pu to test, some Feedback we give would make reaper to strong so I get there attitude to not adressing GS cast-times, however after ppl learn animations this will make GS skill even harder to land and the high Dmg aside a challenging Weapon.

Salty about losing Stability on that shout, but the Augury change is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for and everything looks sweet overall. Can’t wait to try the changes out.

Why are people so concerned about losing 1s of stability that covers the 1s cast of the stun break ?

Sigmoid.7082:

Why are people so concerned about losing 1s of stability that covers the 1s cast of the stun break ?

Especially when said casttime just got removed?

Sigmoid.7082:

Why are people so concerned about losing 1s of stability that covers the 1s cast of the stun break ?

Exactly. The stability on this skill was there for the same reason the stability of Well of Power is there. To make sure you do not get CCd right after you used your stunbreak while still stuck in casting animation.

Shiki.7148:

Sigmoid.7082:

Why are people so concerned about losing 1s of stability that covers the 1s cast of the stun break ?

Especially when said casttime just got removed?

Because people just see “removed stability” and flip the kitten out, not really caring what the context is.

I would REALLY like the Reapers Elite shout to be useable under water, so that necromancers are not stuck with the condition heavy Plague underwater elite.

Please don’t nerfbat us just because some players don’t know yet how to proper counter the Reaper. This specialization is getting a good place at meta, and those changes seems to be pretty solid.

Very good changes, I doubt that life siphon on gravedigger is a good idea. Chilling force increases damage and survivability as well. Why not just give it a damage modifier instead of siphons? It may be “boring” but if we want to have higher damage as support it needs to be compatible in a group situation which extra might and crit chance aren’t. A damage modifier is well compatible in a group situation. Something like 10% damage while wielding a greatsword or 15% extra damage against chilled foes and we are good. I’m not sure about “greatsword skills do X% extra damage against …” since reaper shroud should be part of our offensive support.

For the rest suffer, shivers of dread and deathly chill seem to have some problems to me (suffer and shivers and dread underperforming and deathly chill seems not to be group friendly).

But still thank you for your hard work.

Seems like a good set of changes, nothing too big. Please don’t buff us up if you just plan to nerf us at launch like you did for the initial release. Necro got better and better throughout beta and then got slammed into the abyss at launch and never recovered.

Additionally, can you comment on Deathly Chill? This skill currently doesn’t work on 90% of PvE enemies. Any update on this?

Any word on the sigil procc when entering/leaving reaper shroud being a thing? This was present in the last BW and I thought it was a bug and reported it, however I see no fix and some people are aknowledging it in this thread. I think this shouldn’t be a mechanic and have reaper shroud function just like normal death shroud, but ultimately I’m just looking to know what’s the intended functionality.

Libersevenad.8275:

Any word on the sigil procc when entering/leaving reaper shroud being a thing? This was present in the last BW and I thought it was a bug and reported it, however I see no fix and some people are aknowledging it in this thread. I think this shouldn’t be a mechanic and have reaper shroud function just like normal death shroud, but ultimately I’m just looking to know what’s the intended functionality.

DS was originally a downed state i believe and has been retro fitted to work the way it does hence its code being spaghetti. It uses your equip weapons damage for the damage its skills does hence why no weapon swap. This meant though that shroud preforms differently dependent on what you have on at the time.

Reapers shroud though works the way it does because it uses a normalized weapon for its damage, 2h hammer, and its based of your main hand weapons rarity. So regardless of what set up you have outside of shroud inside it everything is always consistent. Because the hammer is a different weapon type it counts as a weapon swap when you enter or exit shroud.

Its similar to how Revs have theirs on weapon and legend swap. NO idea why you wouldnt want this as a consistent mechanic across the board because it actually opens up so many options in sigil choice and usage.

either way one or the other is going to get “fixed”

these changes look great! I’m was already so excited to play reaper, and now it looks even better!
i am still wondering, when will we be seeing the scepter and axe changes?

Sigmoid.7082:

Libersevenad.8275:

Any word on the sigil procc when entering/leaving reaper shroud being a thing? This was present in the last BW and I thought it was a bug and reported it, however I see no fix and some people are aknowledging it in this thread. I think this shouldn’t be a mechanic and have reaper shroud function just like normal death shroud, but ultimately I’m just looking to know what’s the intended functionality.

DS was originally a downed state i believe and has been retro fitted to work the way it does hence its code being spaghetti. It uses your equip weapons damage for the damage its skills does hence why no weapon swap. This meant though that shroud preforms differently dependent on what you have on at the time.

Reapers shroud though works the way it does because it uses a normalized weapon for its damage, 2h hammer, and its based of your main hand weapons rarity. So regardless of what set up you have outside of shroud inside it everything is always consistent. Because the hammer is a different weapon type it counts as a weapon swap when you enter or exit shroud.

Its similar to how Revs have theirs on weapon and legend swap. NO idea why you wouldnt want this as a consistent mechanic across the board because it actually opens up so many options in sigil choice and usage.

either way one or the other is going to get “fixed”

Thanks for the reply, the main reason I don’t want this is because I’ve been playing for 3 years with the regular ds functionality and developed my playstyle a lot around this (I’m mainly a pvp player), for instance blowing my geomancy/energy on entering reaper shroud for an engage and then not having it when I intend to hit them on weap swap, this was just a minor thing I wanted clarification on in order to play the best necro I can, however I don’t really see it opening up that many possibilities as you said or just being better in general (my opinion) since this functionality also appears on plague/lich form, which are much longer tranformations than DS/RS is and having sigils procc on those is actually valuable. If this feature persists there will be ocasions where you will enter RS, weapon swap then go plague and all of your 4 weapon swap sigils will be unsynced and on cooldown making the already very abbundant procc on crit sigils even more abbundant because you will never go wrong with air/fire in the long run as these situations occur more and more

The changes look amazing , thanks Robert!!

But i still miss chill application on crit (33% chance?) because right now in game there is no way of a reliable source of chill and i think with the cast times of the GS t would be a great help.
A little changes in the minor traits would be good:

• Shivers of dread : apply slow (1 sec) on Foes you chill (1/2 sec ICD).
• Cold Shoulder: apply chill on crit 33% chance 2 seconds. Remove the longer chill duration,

This could make the landing of GS skills a bit easier and actually possible.
Also having a reliable source of chill will help to make the reduced damage from chilled foes actually be useful.
I think 1 second of slow plus 2 seconds of chill 1/3 of the time you crit is not much but helps.
To compare how much could a Reaper proc the minor BAreber precision in Curses proc bleedng the same way.

I like it. Was hoping to see GS1 and 2 get a little more PvP viability, but at least we’re only getting buffs and they didn’t buy into the few players insisting Reaper is OP.

Especially like the shout changes. Those skills are definitely worth the slots, IMO, and I’m considering running two shouts in SPvP, now.

Sigmoid.7082:

based of your main hand weapons rarity.

In BWE2 it was always exotic, which is something I’d like to see changed.

Flumek.9043:

Hello.

Great to see fixes done so fast (suffer too much life force, animations and dash movement corrections. At this pace the reaper may even come out without any bugs at all

The changes look ok, tho reaper and chrono are solid enough, that this is more of a revision check.

So, at this point, the only thing causing problems is base necro. Inb we see double greatsword builds , ill list the most important quirks, bugs and issues:

• starting with zero lifeforce
• losing -23% of lifeforce on respawn
• weapon swap sigils on regular DS
• signets, leech procs, well of blood and other self applied stuff that doesnt work in shroud
• outside healing in shroud – wrote it seperate as it needs consideration and lets go step by step
• regular DS#1 attack speed – blinds are everywhere since june23 , same DPS but over a faster firerate would bring it alive and maybe less QQ about sudden oneshot procs
• axe
• scepter
• focus, (even offhand and #2 #3 dagger tbh)
• corruptions, the extra condi trait and all healing skills

Dream solutions:

• like revenant energy, lifeforce settles on fixed ammount out of combat.
  It just removes the extreme min/max scenarios, bypasses the -23% respawn bug, and doesnt make blighters boon pre-fight spamming a MUST.
  I suggest an equal , easy to umderstand 50% (maybe down to 30 but remeber it also drops and doesnt carry into next fight)
• axe#3 and dagger#5 and their traited counterparts are blast finishers.
  The payoff is you need to be very careful blasting stealth with a 600 radius aoe and the traited ones can only happens under your feet
• any axe & scepter improvements like range, dps and reliable lifeforce increase
• spectral pull and greatsword pull become RELIABLE PULLS. Dodge, block etc counterplay stays but not SIDESTEP and random obstructed

I know this is mostly base stuff but better mention it since you do have 2 other lines beside reaper ill write more if i get a good reaper only idea

LOL alot of this crap is not a solution. *
*No
Life force is not like Revy’s energy. All of our skills have cooldowns and do not use life force thus there is no reason to lose life force when going out of combat (Stop asking for nerfs).
No
Im all for more blast finisher but if you have to trait for them then no. There is not any “Payoff” as that example is hardly reliable because necros do not rely on stealth.
Also
Im pretty sure the weapon swap trigger for sigils with RS is intended as the scythe is a weapon.

If you cannot generate good life force within the first 5-10 seconds of a fight then you dont know how to necro and are doing it wrong. You shouldn’t have to spam blighters boon and its certainly not a MUST

Things i do agree with.
Yes
Corruption skills need a revamp and spectral pull needs a faster projectile speed.
Yes
DS auto could be faster with all the blinds and cc now added to the game.
Yes
Scepter and Axe need changes, but Robert already commented on this and said its being looked at for future balance patches.

I hope you are not one of those mesmers who says necro is too strong. >.> The changes are fine as they are (concerning reaper)

Taverius.8645:

Sigmoid.7082:

based of your main hand weapons rarity.

In BWE2 it was always exotic, which is something I’d like to see changed.

Mine changed when using a acend GS.

anduriell.6280:

The changes look amazing , thanks Robert!!

But i still miss chill application on crit (33% chance?) because right now in game there is no way of a reliable source of chill and i think with the cast times of the GS t would be a great help.
A little changes in the minor traits would be good:

• Shivers of dread : apply slow (1 sec) on Foes you chill (1/2 sec ICD).
• Cold Shoulder: apply chill on crit 33% chance 2 seconds. Remove the longer chill duration,

This could make the landing of GS skills a bit easier and actually possible.
Also having a reliable source of chill will help to make the reduced damage from chilled foes actually be useful.
I think 1 second of slow plus 2 seconds of chill 1/3 of the time you crit is not much but helps.
To compare how much could a Reaper proc the minor BAreber precision in Curses proc bleedng the same way.

EWWW NO GET OUT WITH THAT!

leave the chill duration alone whats wrong with you lol. You say there is not enough chill in reaper. You are crazy and clearly dont play necro.

The duration is needed and its nice to get it for free as a minor trait. Have you tried using chill type runes and sigils and possibly weapons outside of the greatsword? Clearly have hardly touched reaper if you dont think it has a good source of chill generation.

The problem with what you ask is that it would limit the chill bonus only to builds with lots of crit >.> so in other words all those nice condition players out there would lose out on the benfit of chill. And so would you. Some one puts weakness on you and you lose your ability to crit by 50% and all of a sudden you cant apply any chill at all.
Slow is a a mesmers condition and has no true place on reaper so how about we leave the duration as is and you just explore using other options than just the greatsword auto to chill foes.

Zenith.7301:

Since there’s no indication of buffing reaper shroud auto to not be a DPS loss over just autoattacking with greatsword let alone Gravedigger spam <50% health, the only PvE changes of note here are Soul Eater, which can now happily take the place of Reaper’s Onslaught since reaper shroud damage is bad in PvE.

The shouts will not be used in PvE, and developers seem happy with this outcome. I won’t bother since it’s clear by now we’re being told this set of utilities are not being balanced around PvE concerns.

The minors are still pretty terrible. Shivers of Dread are borderline useless in PvE, with the low availability of fear on power reaper to begin with, and 3 seconds of chill on fear being a mediocre effect, especially since bosses and champs are immune to Chill.

The change to Augury of Death will do nothing for PvE. I don’t understand how a 150 hp life steal is going to help against 10k+ damage from sniper shots in PvE. It follows a tradition of undertuned life steals in PvE. And since shouts are pretty much useless in PvE and will NOT be taken over Wells, we can move on to the last PvE relevant change.

Chilling Nova. A 50% damage increase on a 103 damage tooltip increase will still make for inconsequential damage on a 10 sec ICD in PvE. It will remain less damage than a single autoattack from any of our weapons, and the target count of the nova does nothing on PvE content where bosses are single targets.

And once again, we have no appropriate adepts to choose from in PvE. Augury of Death is useless because shouts are useless. Relentless Pursuit is useless in PvE content — the guardians and eles will be aoe removing conditions all the time in a group.

So we’re stuck with Chilling Nova, which still does a mediocre damage effect, and centers around a condition that any of the enemies of note, be they bosses or champs, are IMMUNE TO IN PVE.

Disappointing changes to be honest, especially with no buffs to reaper shroud autoattacks for PvE. We are balanced around PvP and will be stuck with a class mechanic that is a DPS loss, and by default Reaper’s Onslaught will be unattractive because of it.

None of these changes are particularly meaningful for PvE, the game format the class needs the most help with.

100% agree.

Libersevenad.8275:

…… however I don’t really see it opening up that many possibilities …..

Completely disagree. It allows you to apply extra pressure/be more deffensive when entering or exiting shroud dependent on what you take sigil wise. Something we have never had solely from that one act.
The other thing is does is remove the need to double up on on swap sigils just to get the effect eevrytime you swap. This means you can technically take 4 different swap sigils not only that but still use the ones you want easily.

Quick example is on GS/Staff you can have int/hydro on gs and energy/[other swap sigil] on staff. So you can be offensive and proc crits and chill when using GS and RS with that weapon but defensive when using staff by having more dodges. For current standard power can take fire and air on one weapon set and then energy/something else on the other meaning you still benefit from the weapon swap sigils even without having to swap weapons. Two examples but you see what i mean and should allow more interesting play.

ODB.6891:

Zenith.7301:

Since there’s no indication of buffing reaper shroud auto to not be a DPS loss over just autoattacking with greatsword let alone Gravedigger spam <50% health, the only PvE changes of note here are Soul Eater, which can now happily take the place of Reaper’s Onslaught since reaper shroud damage is bad in PvE.

The shouts will not be used in PvE, and developers seem happy with this outcome. I won’t bother since it’s clear by now we’re being told this set of utilities are not being balanced around PvE concerns.

The minors are still pretty terrible. Shivers of Dread are borderline useless in PvE, with the low availability of fear on power reaper to begin with, and 3 seconds of chill on fear being a mediocre effect, especially since bosses and champs are immune to Chill.

The change to Augury of Death will do nothing for PvE. I don’t understand how a 150 hp life steal is going to help against 10k+ damage from sniper shots in PvE. It follows a tradition of undertuned life steals in PvE. And since shouts are pretty much useless in PvE and will NOT be taken over Wells, we can move on to the last PvE relevant change.

Chilling Nova. A 50% damage increase on a 103 damage tooltip increase will still make for inconsequential damage on a 10 sec ICD in PvE. It will remain less damage than a single autoattack from any of our weapons, and the target count of the nova does nothing on PvE content where bosses are single targets.

And once again, we have no appropriate adepts to choose from in PvE. Augury of Death is useless because shouts are useless. Relentless Pursuit is useless in PvE content — the guardians and eles will be aoe removing conditions all the time in a group.

So we’re stuck with Chilling Nova, which still does a mediocre damage effect, and centers around a condition that any of the enemies of note, be they bosses or champs, are IMMUNE TO IN PVE.

Disappointing changes to be honest, especially with no buffs to reaper shroud autoattacks for PvE. We are balanced around PvP and will be stuck with a class mechanic that is a DPS loss, and by default Reaper’s Onslaught will be unattractive because of it.

None of these changes are particularly meaningful for PvE, the game format the class needs the most help with.

100% agree.

I partly agree with this only partly because if they start building to pve then pvp and wvw becomes a steaming pile Thus you still end up unhappy, for the most part it seems your concerns from these changes are a minority compared to the majority which feels that there is not a big issue with how the traits sit.

You say eles and guard will remove conditions from you all the time so the movement impairing reduction trait is useless in pve. Reaper is obviously a selfish character and is not built on the fact that you will always have teammates by your side.

We would end up with skills that pretty much work like ’Blood is power" Which are completely pointless. I think the chill aspect could be adjusted or worked out some way so that it will become more useful against bosses and champion monsters, but honestly that would be the only fix that needs to be made concerning chill at least.

I do think the trait that says when you inflict fear infect chill needs to be fixed. With the few fears you have access too in reaper it might be good to make the chill that’s inflicted 2 to 3 times longer than what it currently is.

Other than the fear into chill and the chill on bosses an champions i have to say im sorry that the majority rules over this. I’m honestly happy about it. I don’t want to see good traits that have use in pvp or wvw removed for pve

Kidel.2057:

“Rise!”: Updated minion models. Increased vitality and toughness of minions by 33%, but decreased minion power by 40%. This skill now summons one minion by default plus one additional per target hit. Shambling Horrors now apply Dark Bond to their master as soon as they are summoned but must still attack to maintain the bond.

Minion master Reaper can have up to 11 minions now _

Rune of the Lich: 1
Death Nova: 2
Lich Form: 5
Rise: 6
Bone Minion: 2
Flesh/Shadow/Bone Fiend: 1
Blood Fiend: 1
—————————————————
That’s 18 not 11 :-)

Even if you remove Lich Form for Golem, that would still be 14 and not 11.

Percent damage modifiers for shroud…we need em. We’re stacked with self might…presumably to feed blighter’s boon, but this is redundant in any group setting where we’re getting force fed might from other players. We have crit chance coming out of our ears. We’re loading up vuln stacks on targets that are already loaded up with vuln stacks from other players. What we need are percent damage modifiers for shroud specifically. Preferably ones that start before the target is half dead…meaning our teammates have done most of the work already. We currently have close to death…at the end of spite…which wastes the majority of its trait potential on the above mentioned redundant things in PvE. I skip unholy fervor on purpose as that is limited to axe only…arguably one of our worst weapons…and doesn’t work in shroud judging from its description. We have strength of undeath…which is great…except for the tiny % modifier despite the fact that it stops working once we are below 50% life force. We have spiteful talisman…that depends on our target not having any boons. Defiance/unshakeable is a boon…that I’m pretty sure we will continue to see on all PvE bosses. That’s it….those are the extent of our % modifiers.

We have some prime candidates for % damage modifiers (shivers of dread, chilling nova, chilling force). These are all reaper specific traits, so it shouldn’t be an issue making them specifically buff RS damage. It should be a bonus to use our profession mechanic…not a loss. Strength of undeath just really needs a numbers boost. It would really be nice if the the 10% from unholy fervor was unbound from axe. I would love it if blood magic actually had some % damage modifiers…that would actually provide some justification for taking it. Those weak siphons need some help and those minors in blood magic definitely need something damage wise attached.

First time I didn’t see any nerfs

Ty Robert, changes look good.

Still Soul Eater still looks a little lackluster compared to Decimating Defenses and Chilling Force.

ODB.6891:

Percent damage modifiers for shroud…we need em. We’re stacked with self might…presumably to feed blighter’s boon, but this is redundant in any group setting where we’re getting force fed might from other players. We have crit chance coming out of our ears. We’re loading up vuln stacks on targets that are already loaded up with vuln stacks from other players. What we need are percent damage modifiers for shroud specifically. Preferably ones that start before the target is half dead…meaning our teammates have done most of the work already. We currently have close to death…at the end of spite…which wastes the majority of its trait potential on the above mentioned redundant things in PvE. I skip unholy fervor on purpose as that is limited to axe only…arguably one of our worst weapons…and doesn’t work in shroud judging from its description. We have strength of undeath…which is great…except for the tiny % modifier despite the fact that it stops working once we are below 50% life force. We have spiteful talisman…that depends on our target not having any boons. Defiance/unshakeable is a boon…that I’m pretty sure we will continue to see on all PvE bosses. That’s it….those are the extent of our % modifiers.

We have some prime candidates for % damage modifiers (shivers of dread, chilling nova, chilling force). These are all reaper specific traits, so it shouldn’t be an issue making them specifically buff RS damage. It should be a bonus to use our profession mechanic…not a loss. Strength of undeath just really needs a numbers boost. It would really be nice if the the 10% from unholy fervor was unbound from axe. I would love it if blood magic actually had some % damage modifiers…that would actually provide some justification for taking it. Those weak siphons need some help and those minors in blood magic definitely need something damage wise attached.

Blood magic is healing
Axe is bad but I dont think we should be loaded with just Shroud modifiers. IF anything we only need one good one not 3 or 4 of em. Reaper is selfish and built to be that way. If you want something thats more of a team player you might want to seek a different profession to fill that role.

Unholy Fervor would be a 10% into a grandmaster trait that gives 20% under 50% its kind of really strong and if it was unbound from axe. We will see axe changes come you just have to wait. Robert already talked about it. Be sides deathly chill’s surprise spike proc tends to be worth more than a 10% ever would be. A passive spinal shivers at 50% can knock a player down to 20% in pve this is not so good however and I understand why you would want the 10% damage. Sadly I think unbinding it from axe would result in a nerf to close to death. :C

Robert seems to be very key on where necro sits as it is and any bonus wont come without a nerf to something else in its place. I think we should wait on axe changes before we look at changing this trait.

As a devote MM player…thanks for tweaking YSIM…I’m looking forward to trying it out. Keep your eye on it…this is better, but may need just a smidge more love…but we’ll see in the next BWE.

Decimating Defenses still takes the spot over Soul Eater…so I hope you keep an eye there for more improvement to SE.

I like the Chill line in Reaper. Although, I have to agree…in PvE…its really almost pointless…the regular mobs can be handled without the chill…and bosses(where we need it) are typically immune. Perhaps ‘Chill’ in general needs to be re-evaluated and tweaked across the game rather than changing things for the Reaper?

Overall, I feel these are all positive and moving in the right direction. Thanks for your previous and continuing work on these, Mr Gee.

NapTooN.6283:

Kidel.2057:

“Rise!”: Updated minion models. Increased vitality and toughness of minions by 33%, but decreased minion power by 40%. This skill now summons one minion by default plus one additional per target hit. Shambling Horrors now apply Dark Bond to their master as soon as they are summoned but must still attack to maintain the bond.

Minion master Reaper can have up to 11 minions now _

Rune of the Lich: 1
Death Nova: 2
Lich Form: 5
Rise: 6
Bone Minion: 2
Flesh/Shadow/Bone Fiend: 1
Blood Fiend: 1
—————————————————
That’s 18 not 11 :-)

Even if you remove Lich Form for Golem, that would still be 14 and not 11.

And if you can manage a second ‘Rise!’…that magical “20” is more within reach…I think I have hit 16…but things were moving so fast I may have miscounted…so lets say 14-16 is where I hit last BWE during a big event fight in the new area defending a camp.

Timortal.8204:

I would REALLY like the Reapers Elite shout to be useable under water, so that necromancers are not stuck with the condition heavy Plague underwater elite.

Bumping this. There is absolutely no reason why we can’t use this skill underwater (Jade winds is a carbon copy of this skill and it does).
Please we need a new underwater elite!

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Timortal.8204:

I would REALLY like the Reapers Elite shout to be useable under water, so that necromancers are not stuck with the condition heavy Plague underwater elite.

Bumping this. There is absolutely no reason why we can’t use this skill underwater (Jade winds is a carbon copy of this skill and it does).
Please we need a new underwater elite!

VENNY I THINK I KNOW YOU

Also BUMP +1

Hi Robert thanks for the updated notes

a few questions

Feedback on changes for BW3

Greatsword:

Dusk Strike/Fading Twilight: Fixed an issue where these skills would occasionally not award their listed life-force values.

Would it not be better to up the Life force gain on these skills as well as fit the bug of not granting life-force? Using Dagger/Staff

you can get Full life-force back in 4-5 seconds but with Great sword seems hmm for lack of a better word clunky

Nightfall: Increased radius of this skill by 60 for all pulses. Maximum radius is now 360. Added effects to show damage/combo field radius.

Fixed an issue which caused the combo field to persist longer than the effect of this skill.

Would it not be better to add a Pull effect to this skill and make the radius 450-600?

Shouts:

“Chilled to the Bone!”: Lowered recharge from 120 seconds to 90 seconds.

Reduced chill duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds.

Is there any reason to reduce the chill on this skill? I mean 90 seconds vrs 6/8 seconds doesnt really mean anything

apart from helping us keep up time I would have thought you would increase skill to 10 seconds

“Rise!”: Updated minion models. Do tell? J the previous models were like Siamese hairless cats on steroids

ZDragon.3046:

I partly agree with this only partly because if they start building to pve then pvp and wvw becomes a steaming pile Thus you still end up unhappy, for the most part it seems your concerns from these changes are a minority compared to the majority which feels that there is not a big issue with how the traits sit.

So you’re honestly saying that something as simple as % modifiers to shroud, as an alternative to self might, would make pvp and wvw a steaming pile? That’s pretty much all that it would take to make RS damage equivalent to other professions attacks. Do other professions attacks dealing decent damage make pvp and wvw a steaming pile? Are you saying that shroud is a superior mitigation tool to blocks/invlulns/evades….because that’s what other professions have…while simultaneously dealing the damage we can only dream of…without having to get enemies below 50% health. How have you measured this majority/minority? Was it from the absence of all the players who have rerolled and given up on necromancers due to nearly 3 years of neglect? Those players who, for obvious reasons, have ceased to post on necro threads? Was it from the pvp and wvw players who do continue to play necromancers…since those are the areas they are actually still functional? Of course the pvp and wvw players post more now. That doesn’t mean there aren’t a ton of players who would love to play necromancers/reapers in PvE should they actually be made desirable. Right now, PvE is a steaming pile for necromancers/reapers. That’s one of the reasons there is so much interest in the reaper to begin with. You make these assumptions on limited to no information about what players want…based apparently on your own predispositions, but the number of necromancer players who try joining PvE groups every day indicate a different predisposition. Those same players that come to the forums and whine about getting booted from PvE groups are expressly indicating they are not happy with the wvw/pvp only focus. A myopic perspective of pvp/wvw being the only thing that matters in this game is part of the problem. This expansion and its content has cost ANET a lot of resources…and guess what…a huge part of that is PvE content. One would think that they would take this opportunity to make a desirable PvE build for this profession since they already have desirable PvP and WvW builds for it.

Other than the fear into chill and the chill on bosses an champions i have to say im sorry that the majority rules over this. I’m honestly happy about it. I don’t want to see good traits that have use in pvp or wvw removed for pve

Again, this assumed majority. You also have this unnecessary assumption that for something to be improved, that something gets removed. Bad development is bad development. Yes, they have had a tendency to do that with this profession and several others in the past….always thinking that to fix a problem, they need to make another problem. Robert has done a great job of not doing that so far, so I’m definitely willing to give him the benefit of the doubt right now.

Almost all of my wishes, with regards to the Reaper, have been granted. The last wish is to allow Infused Terror to stay active outside of Shroud. While I know I am a minority here, I’m a bigger fan of using the greatsword over shroud.

Jump into shroud → apply stability → jump to foe → ice field → jump out of shroud and wreck them. Please make this happen.

ZDragon.3046:

Blood magic is healing

Blood magic is vampric healing…which also implies a damage component…that just happens to be extremely weak…just like the healing component. A narrow perspective on this class is what has been limiting it. Robert is doing a much better job, so I feel this is an opportunity to at least speak up.

Axe is bad but I dont think we should be loaded with just Shroud modifiers. IF anything we only need one good one not 3 or 4 of em. Reaper is selfish and built to be that way. If you want something thats more of a team player you might want to seek a different profession to fill that role.

I’m not just talking about shroud modifiers. I also mentioned general ones like spiteful talisman and unholy fervor. You guys keep defending the current selfish nature of the necromancer as if its a positive thing. Shake off the stockholm syndrome and strive for something better. This is an opportunity to actually “play with the cool kids” for a change. Reaper gives us options we have never had before…let go of the safety net and open up to possibilities. Not saying that any hopes won’t be crushed on the stone wall of PvP/WvW, but its worth a shot. By the way, I do have different professions…I don’t need anyone to presume to tell me to re-roll or not to play something I pay for. I also don’t need anyone to tell me what I should or should not be able to express on the forums. That sentiment is never helpful. It doesn’t hurt anyone to express desire for improvement.

Unholy Fervor would be a 10% into a grandmaster trait that gives 20% under 50% its kind of really strong and if it was unbound from axe. We will see axe changes come you just have to wait. Robert already talked about it. Be sides deathly chill’s surprise spike proc tends to be worth more than a 10% ever would be. A passive spinal shivers at 50% can knock a player down to 20% in pve this is not so good however and I understand why you would want the 10% damage. Sadly I think unbinding it from axe would result in a nerf to close to death. :C

Robert seems to be very key on where necro sits as it is and any bonus wont come without a nerf to something else in its place. I think we should wait on axe changes before we look at changing this trait.

I have no problems with a nerf, so long as it is a balanced nerf. Especially if it spreads out % damage options…versus having them primarily concentrated in close to death. I would gladly trade some survival for some damage. I have been a big proponent of dropping the hp sponge mechanic of DS/RS anyway. I understand others like it, so I think an ideal solution would be to have a damage trait that takes away the hp sponge mechanic in favor of allowing active defenses. I’m fully aware that is a pipe dream though.

ODB.6891:

ZDragon.3046:

I partly agree with this only partly because if they start building to pve then pvp and wvw becomes a steaming pile Thus you still end up unhappy, for the most part it seems your concerns from these changes are a minority compared to the majority which feels that there is not a big issue with how the traits sit.

So you’re honestly saying that something as simple as % modifiers to shroud, as an alternative to self might, would make pvp and wvw a steaming pile? That’s pretty much all that it would take to make RS damage equivalent to other professions attacks. Do other professions attacks dealing decent damage make pvp and wvw a steaming pile? Are you saying that shroud is a superior mitigation tool to blocks/invlulns/evades….because that’s what other professions have…while simultaneously dealing the damage we can only dream of…without having to get enemies below 50% health. How have you measured this majority/minority? Was it from the absence of all the players who have rerolled and given up on necromancers due to nearly 3 years of neglect? Those players who, for obvious reasons, have ceased to post on necro threads? Was it from the pvp and wvw players who do continue to play necromancers…since those are the areas they are actually still functional? Of course the pvp and wvw players post more now. That doesn’t mean there aren’t a ton of players who would love to play necromancers/reapers in PvE should they actually be made desirable. Right now, PvE is a steaming pile for necromancers/reapers. That’s one of the reasons there is so much interest in the reaper to begin with. You make these assumptions on limited to no information about what players want…based apparently on your own predispositions, but the number of necromancer players who try joining PvE groups every day indicate a different predisposition. Those same players that come to the forums and whine about getting booted from PvE groups are expressly indicating they are not happy with the wvw/pvp only focus. A myopic perspective of pvp/wvw being the only thing that matters in this game is part of the problem. This expansion and its content has cost ANET a lot of resources…and guess what…a huge part of that is PvE content. One would think that they would take this opportunity to make a desirable PvE build for this profession since they already have desirable PvP and WvW builds for it.

Other than the fear into chill and the chill on bosses an champions i have to say im sorry that the majority rules over this. I’m honestly happy about it. I don’t want to see good traits that have use in pvp or wvw removed for pve

Again, this assumed majority. You also have this unnecessary assumption that for something to be improved, that something gets removed. Bad development is bad development. Yes, they have had a tendency to do that with this profession and several others in the past….always thinking that to fix a problem, they need to make another problem. Robert has done a great job of not doing that so far, so I’m definitely willing to give him the benefit of the doubt right now.

Which is why i say things likely wont change. I wont retract my steaming plie comment because ts true. You cant please everyone and to remodify for one thing means something else is lost. I don’t think damage modifiers on shroud is a fix to necromancers problem. Boons at this point are worth more than most % damage modifiers yes.

Are you saying that shroud is a superior mitigation tool to blocks/invlulns/evades?
hell no
Many of these things are lacking from necromancer but I doubt they will be added onto it. The better adjustment for this would be to simply strip some of the said tools from other professions that have way too much of them. Necro is lacking and behind yes, but if you think adding a block or two will fix the problem you are mistaken. Evades ar out of the question (it does not fit the profession.) Ivulns need to be toned down (mostly on mesmer but thats about it.) Necromancer could use better tools like improved life stealing and maybe a block or reflect skill for projectiles. Shroud is a temporary sub health bar which requires you to give up alot to go into it. It could be adjusted to be better, but we know we won’t see that happen anytime soon. Suck it up and face it. If you don’t like my assumptions feel free to comment all you like but it won’t change my mind.

I make the majority calls based off of what I read on the here in these post. I make the assumption that Robert would not make another problem to fix a problem thats not what i said, you said that. Im simply saying that in the past when we ask Robert about changes he has responded if with his reason for not doing so and if he say he would look into the change what would have to happen in response to that change.

I do assume that something would be removed because 8 times out of 10 in the past something is removed when changes are made. Reaper is one of those few moments where we are not seeing that happen with necromancer and im happy about that.

A simple example one would be an speed increase on DS life blast he said that to do this the damage per shot would have to be reduced because he was happy with the dps output of necro as it was at the moment. Thats not creating a problem thats, called trade off.

Robert does a good job at managing necromancer but he is not quick to make his calls and i don’t think a few changes for pve will outweigh what the game is based around (WvW and PvP) Because the moment it did you will have people saying that necromancer is not worthy in pvp and wvw. I am allowed to assume things just as much as you are.

“You make these assumptions on limited to no information about what players want…based apparently on your own predispositions”
^
you say this to me and do the same thing every time you post on this forum. Everyone does this. I could flip this 6 ways to Sunday and turn your own words right back on you.
Trust me im sure necro could use love in pve but that gain is not without some cost. In other places. Its clear the game is made around (WvW) and you sould come to face that fact. The changes to stability, the removal of bouncing bullets on thief, the changes to burning and poison stacking. (that last one is questionable to pve change) but i mean come on, these are just examples man. I love to play necro in pve but i don’t cry over not having 1 damage modifier that another profession may have. Not every profession is going to hit like a mac truck. Not every profession is going to take hits like a tank.

Necro has alot of changes that need to be done base line more than trait wise. Now get off my back. lol :P

ODB.6891:

ZDragon.3046:

Blood magic is healing

Blood magic is vampric healing…which also implies a damage component…that just happens to be extremely weak…just like the healing component. A narrow perspective on this class is what has been limiting it. Robert is doing a much better job, so I feel this is an opportunity to at least speak up.

Axe is bad but I dont think we should be loaded with just Shroud modifiers. IF anything we only need one good one not 3 or 4 of em. Reaper is selfish and built to be that way. If you want something thats more of a team player you might want to seek a different profession to fill that role.

I’m not just talking about shroud modifiers. I also mentioned general ones like spiteful talisman and unholy fervor. You guys keep defending the current selfish nature of the necromancer as if its a positive thing. Shake off the stockholm syndrome and strive for something better. This is an opportunity to actually “play with the cool kids” for a change. Reaper gives us options we have never had before…let go of the safety net and open up to possibilities. Not saying that any hopes won’t be crushed on the stone wall of PvP/WvW, but its worth a shot. By the way, I do have different professions…I don’t need anyone to presume to tell me to re-roll or not to play something I pay for. I also don’t need anyone to tell me what I should or should not be able to express on the forums. That sentiment is never helpful. It doesn’t hurt anyone to express desire for improvement.

Unholy Fervor would be a 10% into a grandmaster trait that gives 20% under 50% its kind of really strong and if it was unbound from axe. We will see axe changes come you just have to wait. Robert already talked about it. Be sides deathly chill’s surprise spike proc tends to be worth more than a 10% ever would be. A passive spinal shivers at 50% can knock a player down to 20% in pve this is not so good however and I understand why you would want the 10% damage. Sadly I think unbinding it from axe would result in a nerf to close to death. :C

Robert seems to be very key on where necro sits as it is and any bonus wont come without a nerf to something else in its place. I think we should wait on axe changes before we look at changing this trait.

I have no problems with a nerf, so long as it is a balanced nerf. Especially if it spreads out % damage options…versus having them primarily concentrated in close to death. I would gladly trade some survival for some damage. I have been a big proponent of dropping the hp sponge mechanic of DS/RS anyway. I understand others like it, so I think an ideal solution would be to have a damage trait that takes away the hp sponge mechanic in favor of allowing active defenses. I’m fully aware that is a pipe dream though.

I agree the vamp healing is a too weak. Maybe if it was based off of a fraction of the damage you were dealing then it could possibly be better? But then there is the problem that it might become too strong.

spiteful talisman
This should just be redone into another modifyer its highly unlikely that you will fight a foe even in pve that does not have boons. And it requires you to have a focus in the offhand to get that bonus. Sadly as the only focus trait in necromancers pocket im not sure it can really bet twisted around for more damage.

I hold onto the axe changes thought. I think we should wait and see what comes down the pipe with axe changes before we start trying to adjust that trait. It wont hurt to wait for a few months without 10% damage 1000 X 0.1 = 100 damage obviously you know math its pretty basic. I just dont think getting a free 100 damage in pve is going to matter right now. If you really wanted that 10% I would just take an axe anyway for the time being. axe 2 still is decent damage and if your in shroud you wont be missing out on the 10%. If you cant give up your awesome dagger auto dps for the axe then im not sure what to tell you. You have to pick something till we see the changes come. But im willing to bet we see changes to the weapon sets before we see changes to some of those traits.