Guild Wars 2

Well no huge nerfs which I was kinda fearing due to people just not knowing the tells and stuff for the reaper yet. I’ll try shouts again next beta weekend. Hopefully Im reading it right and each shout will lifesteal from up to 5 targets similar to activating singet of the locust.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Robert Gee.9246:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Additionally, can you comment on Deathly Chill? This skill currently doesn’t work on 90% of PvE enemies. Any update on this?

I think the new icon will help with this. The damage is probably getting lost with the other attacks.

Just to be clear, are you saying we will apply a different condition at the same time as the chill so it will affect enemies with breakbars? Or is this just to make our damage easier to see? Or are you saying even when chill didn’t work on bosses we should still see deathly chill damage ticks but we were just missing them in the clutter of the combat log? The latter is certainly a possibility, that thing scrolls fast lol.

See this thread for more detail on how Chill and other soft CC effects will work vs. Defiance. The short of it is that the Chill condition will apply to the target, but will not have any effect other than (a) triggering various traits that involve Chill (or Cripple, or whatever), and (b) slowly degrading the target’s Defiance bar if it is currently vulnerable.

So Reapers can use Deathly Chill, Chilling Force, Cold Shoulder, etc. against targets with Defiance, but the movement speed reduction (and presumably the cooldown increase as well) will not apply.

“1- There is no point in taking Decimate Defenses and Deaths Perception cause it makes buffs like banners spotter fury etc go to waste.
2- Out of both of them Decimate Defenses is clearly superior seeing how it affects you both in shroud and out of it. At least in PvE its better.”

nope I use both of these with Valkyrie Gear with little Precision and all, these Traits is very good for me, I dont really touch PvE and for PvP and WvW these 2 Traits are vital.

Son of Urza.1692:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Robert Gee.9246:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Additionally, can you comment on Deathly Chill? This skill currently doesn’t work on 90% of PvE enemies. Any update on this?

I think the new icon will help with this. The damage is probably getting lost with the other attacks.

Just to be clear, are you saying we will apply a different condition at the same time as the chill so it will affect enemies with breakbars? Or is this just to make our damage easier to see? Or are you saying even when chill didn’t work on bosses we should still see deathly chill damage ticks but we were just missing them in the clutter of the combat log? The latter is certainly a possibility, that thing scrolls fast lol.

See this thread for more detail on how Chill and other soft CC effects will work vs. Defiance. The short of it is that the Chill condition will apply to the target, but will not have any effect other than (a) triggering various traits that involve Chill (or Cripple, or whatever), and (b) slowly degrading the target’s Defiance bar if it is currently vulnerable.

So Reapers can use Deathly Chill, Chilling Force, Cold Shoulder, etc. against targets with Defiance, but the movement speed reduction (and presumably the cooldown increase as well) will not apply.

Thanks for the link. This is certainly an improvement over no effect at all, but not by much. There goes necros best chance at a raid slot. who is going to take a necro if debuffs have no effect on anything in the raids?

Guys, guess who is getting 2 handed melee power weapon with blocks and several leaps….
The Scrapper

I love the Reaper, I seriously do. But is it only me or everything I see from the other classes (except the tempest and maybe the dragonhunter) seems more op and better than the ours? It’s always the same thing

PS.: I know we have a leap on RS but it’s not the same thing that having it on the GS for example.

It’s a little bit of a pain, but engineers have been know for rocket thrusters.

I do wish we still had an evade on our great sword. Not sure I necessarily want more mobility but I do think GS5 would be better as a reverse shadow-step without a projectile, just an obvious animation so that we could keep people from fleeing instead.

ronpierce.2760:

It’s a little bit of a pain, but engineers have been know for rocket thrusters.

I do wish we still had an evade on our great sword. Not sure I necessarily want more mobility but I do think GS5 would be better as a reverse shadow-step without a projectile, just an obvious animation so that we could keep people from fleeing instead.

Yeah, I like how they approach the stickiness of reaper with that pull, it’s different from the rest. The problem is that, right now, it’s worse than the rest aswell in terms of effectiveness.

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

Guys, guess who is getting 2 handed melee power weapon with blocks and several leaps….
The Scrapper

I love the Reaper, I seriously do. But is it only me or everything I see from the other classes (except the tempest and maybe the dragonhunter) seems more op and better than the ours? It’s always the same thing

PS.: I know we have a leap on RS but it’s not the same thing that having it on the GS for example.

They seem more CC centric, as engineers have always been.

So long as Scrapper doesn’t start dishing out the damage Reaper does, we’ll be fine.

Given how condi engineers eclipse necromancers completely and even their power specs are cuirrently better than ours, we just have to hope history does not repeat with the elite spec simply doing everything better than reaper.

Although I will say, if their lightning bolt field that dazes is not much longer cooldown than Nightfall, I’ll be annoyed. In PvE daze and blind achieve the same thing, defiance bar degeneration and with daze being the more powerful effect on top of the damage the lightning bolts do, it’s an effectively better version of Nightfall, especially against dredge who are immune to blind.

I still think grave digger needs a better cast time.

I also don’t think any shouts will overcome or even compete with the offensiv/defensive power of signets, wells, spectral skills, with the exception of chilled to the bone, that is a great shout.

I may think of using Rise but we’ll have to see how that works out next bwe.

Adding an icon to deathly chill doesn’t do anything to fix how completely useless that trait is in any build ever. Power damage builds aren’t going to spend a trait slot on that when their other option is basically 15% more damage on shroud auto. Condition damage builds aren’t going to use a greatsword or a utility slot to apply chill when they have to sacrifice time applying bleeds/burning or one of their powerful corruptions in order to do that. Hybridmancer is not a thing and is never going to be a thing again, not since dhuumfire was originally moved off of applying on any crit.

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

I love the Reaper, I seriously do. But is it only me or everything I see from the other classes (except the tempest and maybe the dragonhunter) seems more op and better than the ours? It’s always the same thing

It IS always the same thing, and that thing is called “the grass is always greener on the other side of the hill.”

Reaper is getting serious, significant iteration. Some of its worst concerns on reveal are just plain gone. The base profession of Necro has always had some amazing get-in-there-and-stay-there fighting ability even as a light armor wearer with its high HP and spare tank of gas (shroud). Reaper dials that up to 11 (maybe 12).

Sure, it’s not a great pursuit class, but NPC AI doesn’t run, and the PvP modes make being able to hold a position the fundamental scoring mechanic and Reapers hold ground like &$#@ing dark KINGS.

If you want a pursuit class experience, play a pursuit class. If you want premium grade ‘come at me bro’ look no further.

Necros have been owning engies since forever. Unless the tide changes with the scrapper, I wouldn’t worry about it. Engies are known as the class with gadgets, mobility, and fun stuff. I don’t mind seeing engies getting more love. Let’s wait and see how things go.

gavyne.6847:

Necros have been owning engies since forever. Unless the tide changes with the scrapper, I wouldn’t worry about it. Engies are known as the class with gadgets, mobility, and fun stuff. I don’t mind seeing engies getting more love. Let’s wait and see how things go.

Especially since engi got gutted and destroyed in the trait rework. Dear Grenth is it a mess.

Ravezaar.4951:

“1- There is no point in taking Decimate Defenses and Deaths Perception cause it makes buffs like banners spotter fury etc go to waste.
2- Out of both of them Decimate Defenses is clearly superior seeing how it affects you both in shroud and out of it. At least in PvE its better.”

nope I use both of these with Valkyrie Gear with little Precision and all, these Traits is very good for me, I dont really touch PvE and for PvP and WvW these 2 Traits are vital.

As I said there is no point in taking both of them in PvE seeing how if you are playing in a party makes lots of boons go to waste. I have no idea how effective they might be in PvP or WvW, still if you are by yourself and have both of this traits makes things like Target the Weak compeltely useless.

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

Guys, guess who is getting 2 handed melee power weapon with blocks and several leaps….
The Scrapper

I love the Reaper, I seriously do. But is it only me or everything I see from the other classes (except the tempest and maybe the dragonhunter) seems more op and better than the ours? It’s always the same thing

PS.: I know we have a leap on RS but it’s not the same thing that having it on the GS for example.

First of all we havent seen everything on scrapper yet; as for the others, not really. I love the chronomancer, but my reaper in bwe2 was doing absolutely horrific amounts of damage. I think we will be just fine.

jacim.5904:

Ravezaar.4951:

“1- There is no point in taking Decimate Defenses and Deaths Perception cause it makes buffs like banners spotter fury etc go to waste.
2- Out of both of them Decimate Defenses is clearly superior seeing how it affects you both in shroud and out of it. At least in PvE its better.”

nope I use both of these with Valkyrie Gear with little Precision and all, these Traits is very good for me, I dont really touch PvE and for PvP and WvW these 2 Traits are vital.

As I said there is no point in taking both of them in PvE seeing how if you are playing in a party makes lots of boons go to waste. I have no idea how effective they might be in PvP or WvW, still if you are by yourself and have both of this traits makes things like Target the Weak compeltely useless.

All Iam saying the Combonation of them in PvP, WvW is really kitten good because it lets u have a very high Crit% Specially in Shroud even without Precision in your Gear. And since Reaper is Melee based u kinda want to replace a Stat from Zerker with something like Vitality or Toughness to make up for the Fact that you Light Armor Necro now plays in Melee…

This is were these 2 traits come in so answer from a PvP,WvW perspective is keep them in cause they make more Sustain Builds viable without the a huge loss in dmg (form Crits) and iam mainly talking Power Build here were imho Crit% is more Vital not just there to trigger Procs so Target the Weak is not rellavent for that.

And since Reaper is Melee based u kinda want to replace a Stat from Zerker with something like Vitality or Toughness to make up for the Fact that you Light Armor Necro now plays in Melee…

To reinforce this point as a reaper and with any combination of free crit chance traits you only need 0~30% crit chance in pve to max out on crit in most situations. This means any points in precision can be spent else where.

If they ever release a stat combination of power, condition damage and ferocity…necro would be very very very good.

yes Indeed that would be a Powerful Hybrid

jacim.5904:

As I said there is no point in taking both of them in PvE seeing how if you are playing in a party makes lots of boons go to waste.

Then in a situation where you have outside crit% gain, don’t take both. In other situations, both together work well. Dhuumfire can be subbed for death perception, even on a power build, if it would take you significantly over 100% crit. Chilling Force can be subbed for decimate defenses as well. I know it won’t be min/maxed in scale, but it will still increase your damage.

My main question regarding these and the last iterations is: was the idea of having X procs per Y seconds dropped as a form of ICD? Seems like things such as Chilling Nova, Soul Eater, and Deathly chill could have improved function with an ICD like that.

I quite enjoyed Soul Eater with Death Spiral, but I’m sure it was an awkward trait to balance between the varying cast times and hits per second of the greatsword abilities. Having the lifesteal on Gravedigger may overload that ability with ‘all’ the damage the GS puts out (which it already kind of is, but SE helped mitigate this somewhat).

I would still very much like to see Nightfall either follow the Reaper around like an aura so that it has a longer realistic effect duration in mobile fights OR be a long range ground targeted aoe so we can throw it at kiters in order to both catch up to and blind them OR be a leap + cast on impact. Any of the above would make it feel like we get more out of it than 1-2 of its pulses.

I would also like to see another chill field available. Currently, the only one is from Executioner’s Scythe, which seems to function more as an opener or mid-fight set up for burst rather than an execute (stun + only field to proc chilling bolts). The much maligned ‘Suffer!’ may be a good spot.

I’m really looking forward to these changes though, especially the new model for Rise’s minions :O Reaper was an absolute blast in BWE2.

I was fully expecting there to be nerfs after this past beta, we actually got more buffs? Is this real life??

ROBERT, OUR SAVIOR

Dead.5829:

jacim.5904:

As I said there is no point in taking both of them in PvE seeing how if you are playing in a party makes lots of boons go to waste.

Then in a situation where you have outside crit% gain, don’t take both. In other situations, both together work well. Dhuumfire can be subbed for death perception, even on a power build, if it would take you significantly over 100% crit. Chilling Force can be subbed for decimate defenses as well. I know it won’t be min/maxed in scale, but it will still increase your damage.

I completely agree Dhuumfire is the way to go for max dps even for a power build, but i would like to see a trait that benefits this way of playing.
And no there is no armor set in my opinion that makes you wanna wear both DD and DP, as I stated before the simple fact that you can achieve 100% only with both of those traits makes many buffs go to complete waste, theres gotta be a better way to optimize your traits and armor stats as not to make things like banners, spotter, target the weak, fury etc go to waste.

What happened to the Axe changes?

Kain Francois.4328:

What happened to the Axe changes?

They’re coming with the upcoming balance notes for the core classes. They will likely all come at once. Beta/Elite spec changes are a separate topic from base class changes. I haven’t heard a more definite time-frame on the core changes though, all Gee told me a week ago was that it was delayed and would be some time after the Elite spec changes, which is now apparent.

ronpierce.2760:

Kain Francois.4328:

What happened to the Axe changes?

They’re coming with the upcoming balance notes for the core classes. They will likely all come at once. Beta/Elite spec changes are a separate topic from base class changes. I haven’t heard a more definite time-frame on the core changes though, all Gee told me a week ago was that it was delayed and would be some time after the Elite spec changes, which is now apparent.

Yeah, personally I don’t see this balance patch happening until right before the launch of HoT. It would be cool if it could come sooner, but they have so much to do, and some things like D/D ele balance honestly sound like crazy challenges to overcome.

nearlight.3064:

ronpierce.2760:

Kain Francois.4328:

What happened to the Axe changes?

They’re coming with the upcoming balance notes for the core classes. They will likely all come at once. Beta/Elite spec changes are a separate topic from base class changes. I haven’t heard a more definite time-frame on the core changes though, all Gee told me a week ago was that it was delayed and would be some time after the Elite spec changes, which is now apparent.

Yeah, personally I don’t see this balance patch happening until right before the launch of HoT. It would be cool if it could come sooner, but they have so much to do, and some things like D/D ele balance honestly sound like crazy challenges to overcome.

Based on context clues of developers talking, namely Grouch, it sounds like there will be some sort of written “here’s what to expect” set of notes prior to the changes being actually made. Which does sort of point toward us having a bit of a wait (likely 2-3 weeks from now). Which would be fine, but the unfortunately part is, usually they don’t change much based on feedback from that point forward. The preview usually ends up being early patch notes.

I think the hold up might be some last minute Scrapper/Druid work, which obviously takes priority to posting changes for the core classes at this very moment for them, and they want to sync class update notes so no class feels left out. (All speculation, of course.)

I’ve had a chance to review a lot of people’s comments and responses to the reason why stability was removed from the shout. I totally understand the decision to remove from that ability and it makes sense.

I can’t speak for other people, but I can speak for myself. It’s not that I am freaking out about just losing stability on the skill, but rather it’s a reminder that compared to other classes the Necro lacks effective stability. I don’t need another explanation on why the shout lost stability, but it would be nice to know why stability keeps getting overlooked or forgot about in terms of incorporating effective stabo into the class.

I don’t recall Robert Gee ever definitively answering the question on why the necro lacks this. If he did please point to where this info resides. If not, Robert it would be really great to hear from you on this issue. I imagine there are reasons; I myself and other’s would be interested on your insight on the matter.

Robert Gee.9246:

Shiki.7148:

Now can we please have CttB work under water please? I really want to be able to run something other than Plagueform.

I’m not sure if this change will be in BWE3 (been making changes in a lot of different places) but I’m intending for all shouts to be usable underwater.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Additionally, can you comment on Deathly Chill? This skill currently doesn’t work on 90% of PvE enemies. Any update on this?

I think the new icon will help with this. The damage is probably getting lost with the other attacks.

Can you also rename shouts underwater to:

GRrggglrglrlg

RlrlrrlrLRRLr

and so on ?

Vunter.6245:

I don’t need another explanation on why the shout lost stability, but it would be nice to know why stability keeps getting overlooked or forgot about in terms of incorporating effective stabo into the class..

You mean like how Reaper got an amazing baseline source of stability, plus a fairly large amount on an elite? So far the big changes we’ve been getting haven’t at all overlooked our lack of stability, but since we haven’t seen a change to our base skills in ages they can’t really address it yet on our base profession.

It would be nice if infusing terror stayed after getting out of death shroud though….

Bhawb.7408:

Vunter.6245:

I don’t need another explanation on why the shout lost stability, but it would be nice to know why stability keeps getting overlooked or forgot about in terms of incorporating effective stabo into the class..

You mean like how Reaper got an amazing baseline source of stability, plus a fairly large amount on an elite? So far the big changes we’ve been getting haven’t at all overlooked our lack of stability, but since we haven’t seen a change to our base skills in ages they can’t really address it yet on our base profession.

The only issue with stability on our base class, is that we really don’t have access to it beyond a well and a singular trait. Reaper has good access to it.

Honestly, if doom gAve you single stack of stability when you cast it, it would go a very long way.

Zenith.7301:

It would be nice if infusing terror stayed after getting out of death shroud though….

^ it’s enough of a negative to not be able to trigger the fear, at least let the stab pulsing stay for things like stomps and Gravedigger.

striker.3704:

The only issue with stability on our base class, is that we really don’t have access to it beyond a well and a singular trait. Reaper has good access to it.

I get that, but they can’t just randomly slap stability onto skills in a random balance patch. They can’t address our stability until they go through and update a number of our skills, and then have a chance to put stability in there where it fits. So far they haven’t had that chance, we’ll see if Gee has had that scope of work for the upcoming core changes.

Bhawb.7408:

I get that, but they can’t just randomly slap stability onto skills in a random balance patch.

I mean… they caaaaan.

At this point, I’m most excited about what they do with that core class balance patch. Reaper felt fantastic last BWE.

I enjoyed the changes to reaper with the last BWE. It flowed much more smoothly. What I don’t care for is not being able to choose which shroud to use. I prefer DS over RS because I mostly play ranged. The gs just makes swapping weapons more enticing.

Does anyone know if the Death’s Charge velocity change translates into a faster cast or further distance? I assume 3/4 cast instead of 1, and a shorter projectile protection frame? I assume this js the case but it’s nice to be sure.

Its anyones guess. Id assume its just faster. Which sucks for the projectile defence.

FunnyCide.5426:

I enjoyed the changes to reaper with the last BWE. It flowed much more smoothly. What I don’t care for is not being able to choose which shroud to use. I prefer DS over RS because I mostly play ranged. The gs just makes swapping weapons more enticing.

If you prefer ranged, why would you want to play the Reaper, which was explicitly designed as a melee aoe brawler?

Captain Unusual.9163:

FunnyCide.5426:

I enjoyed the changes to reaper with the last BWE. It flowed much more smoothly. What I don’t care for is not being able to choose which shroud to use. I prefer DS over RS because I mostly play ranged. The gs just makes swapping weapons more enticing.

If you prefer ranged, why would you want to play the Reaper, which was explicitly designed as a melee aoe brawler?

+1

On the topic of increased dash speed, i stillthink its better this way.
Its better chasing potential and the dash had felt it got stuck for a sec, while on the projectile side,
it doesnt change the starting time so nothing will change on your reaction time, you just wont block maybe the 2nd fired arrow.

Death spiral should be our projectile defense, not death’s charge.

Looking at the engineer gyro’s compared to our useless shouts depresses me. Selfish shout for mediocre, redundant boons and effects.

Meanwhile engineer gets a remote finisher/rezzing tool, a remote shadow refuge+reveal pulse, an aoe condi removal pulse for the group and activated poison field, and the traits give them super speed when blasting a lightning field.

We’re still stuck with mediocre minors like shivers of dread, when we only have fear on a 30 sec cd that does 3 seconds of chill with that mediocre minor (which doesn’t affect half of pve to begin with). Cold Shoulder, a 20% damage reduction only for ourselves.

Still a class completely devoid of meaningful group utility and adept/minors/grandmaster traits of terribly little use for PvE.

Signet passives still don’t work in shroud, so I lose my power passive from signet of spite.

Zenith.7301:

Death spiral should be our projectile defense, not death’s charge.

Looking at the engineer gyro’s compared to our useless shouts depresses me. Selfish shout for mediocre, redundant boons and effects.

Meanwhile engineer gets a remote finisher/rezzing tool, a remote shadow refuge+reveal pulse, an aoe condi removal pulse for the group and activated poison field, and the traits give them super speed when blasting a lightning field.

We’re still stuck with mediocre minors like shivers of dread, when we only have fear on a 30 sec cd that does 3 seconds of chill with that mediocre minor (which doesn’t affect half of pve to begin with). Cold Shoulder, a 20% damage reduction only for ourselves.

Still a class completely devoid of meaningful group utility and adept/minors/grandmaster traits of terribly little use for PvE.

Signet passives still don’t work in shroud, so I lose my power passive from signet of spite.

You forgot the part where our debuffs got nerfed even harder in the new PvE with the break bar system…

I mean, “You’re all weaklings” and “Suffer!” got neutered completely against bosses, not that shouts were any good to begin with in PvE let alone bosses.

I said we would end up using well of corruption+well of suffering+signet of spite everywhere in PvE, and it seems it will stay that way.

All our utilities in PvE outside wells are pretty much terrible and won’t see the light of day unless serious changes are made.

Blood is Power actually got nerfed with pitiful duration. BoP has a whopping 30 sec cd on a 8 second 8 stacks of might.

8 stacks of might for 8 seconds on a 30 sec cd is 26.6% uptime on 8 stacks of might.

To see how bad that is, the Herald with just the facet (one utility slot, just like how we sacrifice one utility slot for Blood is Power) maintains 10-12 might stacks for everyone around him 100% UPTIME, and can spike those to 15-18 with their f2 activation.

A Phalanx Strength warrior maintains 18+ stacks on the group with ease, if a single ele is around, the party sits at permanent 25 might stacks.

And none of their utilities/traits harm them for the paltry benefits that corruptions bring.

I am actually pretty curious if it’s just the bleed damage that prevented BiP being comparable to might sharing of other classes. Herald was super impressive for buffing allies around me in the last BWE.

The bleed damage is pathetic, so I doubt it.

Sure, YOU may see it as pathetic, but this is a similar argument to what was made for Reaper shouts having cast times. They have a lot going on, so were seen as too powerful, internally to Anet development. We’ve seen how those have changed since being used externally, by players, during the BWEs.

Perhaps BiP was the same way. Internally, it was seen as powerful enough (burst of might + 2 bleeds, 4 if the self was transferred). Externally, less so. It just hasn’t received the same BWE feedback → iteration process.

If internally it is seen as powerful, that’s a problem with who’s testing internally and their lack of touch with the reality of how the game is played, especially at higher levels.

I would have enjoyed it if they added a stealth reveal on “Nothing can Save You”, even at the cost of a higher CD. I feel like finding people who are trying to hide from you fits the theme of the Reaper, and it would give this skill a really unique application for the class.

Our shouts are pitiful compared to scrapper gyros in terms of group utility ;(

Zenith.7301:

Our shouts are pitiful compared to scrapper gyros in terms of group utility ;(

Truthfully, most of the gyros I wouldn’t even consider using. Most Reaper shouts, on the other hand…

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Zenith.7301:

Our shouts are pitiful compared to scrapper gyros in terms of group utility ;(

Truthfully, most of the gyros I wouldn’t even consider using. Most Reaper shouts, on the other hand…

PvE speaking here. Shouts are useless.

I don’t know how you could say a 30 sec cd shadow refuge with a 6 sec reveal, a 50% group damage reduction with a 6 sec reflection bubble toggle, or an aoe heal that toggles into a water field with 5 secs of prot is not better than shouts.