Guild Wars 2

I’ve been checking the game for a bit, and what really interested me was a condition build. I do of course have a full Zerker build, which I run successfully in the jungle and fractals, but conditions were something I always liked.

The question is the build. I noticed two things in researching builds:
1. Most people take Spite
2. Reapers have very interesting condition potential in being able to apply 4 main damage conditions easily.

These are:
1. Burn (Dhuumfire)
2. Poison (Poisonfield+Whirl = Poison cap)
3. Bleed (Scepter, Crits with Curses)
4. Chill (Reaper trait)

Why not combine these into one build by skipping Spite? The idea would be the following:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNArYGnMbCN3gV3A0biFjBLOHGEPiUNhoQtK6nFAOAA-TByXABzq+jeK/m7RAAw+ANuwAdnBgR1H8gSwAAHA7W36ubAkCov1WA-e

It has very high condition uptime, 100% for Chill and Bleed and 80% for everything else, applies high damage bleeds, Chill, Poison and even Burn, and gains plenty of life force to utilize the reaper shroud potential with dhuumfire as well, which adds survivability aplenty.

What do you think? Would I be letting parties down if I took this to a raid/fractal?

In a Fractal, probably not. The main purpose for Spite is Might and Vuln stacking, which Curses can’t do. However, in an organized (or even semi-organized) Fractrals group, you’ll likely be at max for both anyway. So Spite’s usefulness really drops in that situation.

I’d even consider swapping Chilling Victory for Decimate Defenses to ensure you’re always critting (post Fury).

That’s a really good point, with Decimate Defenses. It’d get me a 100% critrate, which would help with bleeding as well. Thanks, I missed that!

This is also the problem with Condi reaper. You cant maintain bleeds and burn at the same time. Also you cant take deathly chill unless you want less burns. There’s a lot of contradictory choices with Condi reaper. Which is the reason why its so weak compared to other Condi classes.

You are right about spite though. Its pretty much pointless in a group.

Yeah, the deadly chill vs burn issue did throw me off. It seemed(!) overall a better idea to go for chill instead of more burns, but the issue is others overwriting your chill.

One step forward, one backwards for necros, it seems.

This is something I’ve been trying to do of recent(armor/weapon quality is set to exotic because of what I have in-game).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAR4Ync0AF1gN2AWbC0biliBLuHOEXiUNhpwtKKA8tKAA-ThBBABA8kCcZ/hqV+5suHpV/RNlgkCAilVA-e

Basically apply chill to get more might when applying burning, but main focus is on burning damage. I’ve found that Poison happens to actually do pretty well as a secondary condition focus with it. Just doing the Shroud 4 I’ve seen it get to about half of what burning was doing – which I’ve managed to get to see around 5k on some boss’.

I left out secondary sigil’s because I don’t know if the burning duration increase will apply while in Shroud. The difference would be from 75% to 95% duration. I like this, but idk how good it would be with full ascended.

spoj.9672:

There’s a lot of contradictory choices with Condi reaper. Which is the reason why its so weak compared to other Condi classes.

Hey, Spoj.
I don’t quite agree on that. We are not “so weak” compared to other classes. We can get in same level or be a little behind. Sure if people care about 1 or 2 seconds difference on a kill. In other hand we manipulate conditions better than anyone else. So in high level content where condition builds are more common, one epidemic can be devastating. A skill type that none else have.

I think the great minds in necro community who are actually good at math and understanding the game mechanic should work on a condition necro/reaper build for pve, because all i see now are people advertising power builds for pve which is not good anymore, imo. Things doesn’t die in 10 seconds anymore, like it used to be.

I am working a condition build myself that i have been using in fractals and stuff, its good, but i don’t think i have optmized it to the fullest yet. And right now i am not far behind engi/rangers. I don’t count berserkers because their builds requires a good positioning to stack tons of burning which won’t happen in reality. Maybe in a dummy.

I will be adding one to my guide. But that doesnt mean condi necros arent weak compared to other better condi classes. :P

there are really 2 kinds of condi necros, scepter builds and dhuumfire builds. scepter obviously camps scepter to make the most out of lingering curses and stacking bleeds

dhuumfire build camps shroud to stack burns. with shroud 2 on a 5 sec cd, you can pretty constantly apply chill as some secondary DPS with deathly chill, and shroud 4 provides quick ways to ramp poison as well as cap off chill stacks if you use shroud 5 first. then you go back to stacking burn while 4 and 5 are on cd. shroud builds are a little more versatile because they can consistently apply a wide variety of condis, but require you to be in shroud and wont reach very high stacks of any condi

spoj.9672:

I will be adding one to my guide. But that doesnt mean condi necros arent weak compared to other better condi classes. :P

Will be much appreciated. Condi builds need LUV!
Btw, i am just making some raw comparisons watching some DNT showcase build videos and comparing their golem kill times to my own and i am only 1 second behind engi and 2 seconds behind ranger, all the others classes i am performing better by a good margin.
Ofc, its not reality application because no target will be standing still taking damage but just for the sake of comparison.

Golems arent really a valid comparison seeing as they are solo. And were talking group here. Condi necro solo is quite good because of the might and vuln. Which is probably why you see less of a difference.

spoj.9672:

Golems arent really a valid comparison seeing as they are solo. And were talking group here. Condi necro solo is quite good because of the might and vuln. Which is probably why you see less of a difference.

Engies also apply lots of vuln, inclusive in the dps showcase thing. And i only had 8 sec of might from BIP, its a boost but not so much. Not running spite for perma-selfish 25 might in group content. Idk, i think we have a spot and shouldn’t be bashed away. Just love condi builds and i love my necro/reaper more than any other classes.
Anyway, i’ll be waiting on a condi build thing from you, since you are a more reliable source than me( i suck in this mechanic thing/math).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRUQNAW7dnMbCV2gd3AG1A0bilgBLuIuEjiUXhtwvKKBEAiAA-TRSAABFcRAU4BA4z+DYr8TadDAcEAsWdlSVpwSlgBAOAY3AA-e

You forgot Epidemic… which is the ultimate condi skill in the game. Also, with this build, you can do damage for fear and chill on blind as well, ensuring you have the chill damage proc’ing instead of anyone else’s (though I guess with others having my build… that will become interesting lol).

Also, in regards to the corruptions doing an additional condi… and using the plague-signet trait… I found it to be weak when in a group because of the constant condi removal. Also, if you are near another necro doing the same… you constantly swap condi’s and it just makes it really hard to use effectively.

And, yeah, ignore spoj. Because of Epidemic, we are the best condi class in the game. I would say Revenant and Engi can fight for second best. Just this past weekend, I had burning ticks of upwards of 15k because of Epidemic, not to mention all the other condi’s that do damage and got copied to surrounding mobs. You just have to time it right for when there are a swarm of mobs and the zerg has condi-filled a champ/legendary.

Also, yes, this serves quite well in raids (assuming it is like beta) because of the creatures that only take condi damage. I do not fractal though so cannot tell you but from what I used to do, way back before condi’s were a thing, there are enough mobs to copy things around and melt them all with those delicious DoT’s.

Epidemic is severely overrated. Its useless on bosses and on trash you barely have time to actually get a decent epidemic off.

Plus you dont even need to be a condi necro to use epidemic. :P

I find it extremely useful with the hoards of mobs around champs/legendaries in both DS and Teq battery phases, to name a couple. However, yes, it gets unused when the boss is by itself but it does a good job clearing out that trash while the team focuses down the real threat… that champ or legendary so that makes it worth taking.

Also, a question I have not really gone back to look into is if those condi’s spread retain their original condi damage or get altered to what the necro has instead during the copy? I guess that would be fairly hard to test with the RNG factor as well as dependency on others.
Basically… if a power necro puts some bleed/burn or w/e on a mob and they have zero condi damage… then you, as a condi necro, use Epidemic, do the conditions spread take the zero condi-damage value or the 2k condi-damage value?

spoj.9672:

Epidemic is severely overrated. Its useless on bosses and on trash you barely have time to actually get a decent epidemic off.

Plus you dont even need to be a condi necro to use epidemic. :P

So spoj you think that necro is weak and epidemic is overrated…i guess you’ve been playing that 20k dps engi build lately and got disappointed by poor necro

Pompeia.5483:

Also, a question I have not really gone back to look into is if those condi’s spread retain their original condi damage or get altered to what the necro has instead during the copy? I guess that would be fairly hard to test with the RNG factor as well as dependency on others.
Basically… if a power necro puts some bleed/burn or w/e on a mob and they have zero condi damage… then you, as a condi necro, use Epidemic, do the conditions spread take the zero condi-damage value or the 2k condi-damage value?

Epidemic generates new conditions that are all attributed to the caster, although their durations are set by whatever was on the target. Thus, they use your condition damage and will heal you via Parasitic Contagion, even if all you did was copy 15 burns from a Guardian.

This is what I’ve mostly been running to explore the Jungle.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRMQNBhWD7kZTo5GsdTwcTg9GsUMYx7wh4SkqJMFuVRBgBQCA-TBTDABIcEAkRti82fYENDH8AAOWJIUK/ARHgCHEAAMBJxFAIGVVIEgi1A-e

But i’ve been debating on dropping Scepter for Staff & going for something along the lines of this.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRMQJARWnMbCN3gtbCebCs3gFjBLOHGETiUNhoQtK6nFAGAA-TBTBABQcEA0RtimPEABu/wKaCeWJIWK/QRHACmgyRVFNeAAAcBAIEgi1A-e

I started to play around with Rise & Death Magic as well which produced some decent results ( as well as being pretty fun in the Jungle ) I think I’ll stick with this alternative for now until I can work out something different. Any input is welcome.

Pelopidas.2140:

spoj.9672:

Epidemic is severely overrated. Its useless on bosses and on trash you barely have time to actually get a decent epidemic off.

Plus you dont even need to be a condi necro to use epidemic. :P

So spoj you think that necro is weak and epidemic is overrated…i guess you’ve been playing that 20k dps engi build lately and got disappointed by poor necro

20k Dps

Full Asc Sinister Condi Reaper was a massive disappointment in PvE. 5k Burns, 1.1k Chills, 2.3k Poisons, 1.5k Bleeds was the highest I’ve gotten so far. I think I’m better off sticking with zerker even if mobs have Husk-tier toughness. RS1 needs like one offensive filler cond or something because you ain’t getting any bleeds except from the trait and staff/scepter and that’s awful. Whenever my RS emptied and a boss wasn’t dead and I ended up in Staff or Scepter/Dagger I could hear my sweet dps running away screaming and dying in a corner.

@Aktium, if you don’t mind sharing, what does your set-up look like apart from the Sinister gear (traits, runes, sigils)? Given the comparatively low Bleed ticks, I’m assuming you are running a build focused on Shroud/Dhuumfire, maybe without Curses, yes?

This is my slightly silly chill build with Druumfire for good measure. Not sure how good it is…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJAWxmMbClbC0bilgBLuIuEjiUXhtwvKKBEAKXA-TxhBQBA4JAwQ1fyx+DTT5HzuEA8TXAaUCCA-e

Epedemic is only good in a very specific set of circumstances.

You need:

1. A boss Mob that won’t die quickly
2. at least 3 condition specced characters attacking said boss
3. Strong adds that won’t die quickly
4. Melee adds that stay near the boss

Only when all 4 of these conditions are met do you do a really devastating attack. This unfortunately only happens in larger group events when it doesn’t matter because everything is going to die anyway. Based on the 3 raid fights we have seen none of them will make use of epidemic since they do not meet those 4 conditions. I suppose it may be really awesome in one raid fight, but not enough to base a whole build around.

I think we are in a decent place condition wise. Engineer and ranger out condi us for sure, and every other class has a faster ramp up, but I think we are at least close to competitive dps wise. I would like to see a few more buffs, particularly having lingering curse work in RS.

I’d also like to see condition purging bosses reduced or removed. Not cleanses, those are fine, but the purges, where a boss goes invuln and instantly loses all condition and associated damage. If a boss goes into an invuln phase the conditions already on him should finish doing their damage. That alone would put us much closer to power builds dps wise.

Skoigoth.9238:

@Aktium, if you don’t mind sharing, what does your set-up look like apart from the Sinister gear (traits, runes, sigils)? Given the comparatively low Bleed ticks, I’m assuming you are running a build focused on Shroud/Dhuumfire, maybe without Curses, yes?

Nah. I ran curses/sr/reaper with berzerker runes I just slapped a sigil of smoldering and bursting on my staff as well. I thought about going for flame legion/balth but the 5% increased damage on both power and condi should be worth more than and extra tick or two of burning if I did my math right. I’m still not entirely sure whether malice is better than smoldering for this tho and i cant be bothered to calc it. Anyway, either I’m worse than I thought at theorycrafting or condi reaper is awful.

Pelopidas.2140:

spoj.9672:

Epidemic is severely overrated. Its useless on bosses and on trash you barely have time to actually get a decent epidemic off.

Plus you dont even need to be a condi necro to use epidemic. :P

So spoj you think that necro is weak and epidemic is overrated…i guess you’ve been playing that 20k dps engi build lately and got disappointed by poor necro

I simply think you and spoj are talking about 2 different scenarios, he is talking about fractal/raid bosses (mainly) and you are talking about (I think) open PvE.

When there is 1 boss (no adds) like in 99% of the fractals/and the only raid we have seen so far then Epidemic is fairly useless and Necro (and reapers) apprication of conditions is slow compared to other classes (engi/ranger). if you read spoj’s post again you will see this is what he is talking about.

In open PvE where there 99% of the time is plenty of add’s around the elite/champ/legendary however, Epidemic is amasing, plain and simple.

I to, have been attempting to make a condi reaper build, I am not sure, sadly I feel mainly like dropping the reaper form and go full scepter and only pop into reaper for nr. 4 (poison) or to use nr. 3 (fear). And not use gs untill below 50% for gravedigger spam and then make sure I am standing in a firefield for the burn procs.. this also intale dropping soulreaper trait line since why have it when I barely use reaper form and then take.. blood I guess or something..

all in all I am having a hard time making a reaper condi build that work for single target. For open PvE, np, just use epidemic and you are sett.

@Aktium, thanks for sharing your build =)

I think one of the problems is that you miss out on a lot of condi duration from not using Viper’s armor and weapons (~21.66% I think it is). So, Sigil of Malice and the 4x Nightmare, 2x Trapper Runes set-up would probably be better for maxing condi duration in your build. With food, traits and Sigil of Smoldering, this would push your Bleeds, Chills and Burns to ~85% duration and the rest of your condis to ~65% duration.

I’m not sure if pushing the duration that hard really is the way to go, but that’s how I would do it if I was using full Sinister gear.

But muh damage.

I’d totally get Viper gear if I didn’t have to do open world content to get it.

Sigfodr.9576:

Pelopidas.2140:

spoj.9672:

Epidemic is severely overrated. Its useless on bosses and on trash you barely have time to actually get a decent epidemic off.

Plus you dont even need to be a condi necro to use epidemic. :P

So spoj you think that necro is weak and epidemic is overrated…i guess you’ve been playing that 20k dps engi build lately and got disappointed by poor necro

I simply think you and spoj are talking about 2 different scenarios, he is talking about fractal/raid bosses (mainly) and you are talking about (I think) open PvE.

When there is 1 boss (no adds) like in 99% of the fractals/and the only raid we have seen so far then Epidemic is fairly useless and Necro (and reapers) apprication of conditions is slow compared to other classes (engi/ranger). if you read spoj’s post again you will see this is what he is talking about.

In open PvE where there 99% of the time is plenty of add’s around the elite/champ/legendary however, Epidemic is amasing, plain and simple.

I to, have been attempting to make a condi reaper build, I am not sure, sadly I feel mainly like dropping the reaper form and go full scepter and only pop into reaper for nr. 4 (poison) or to use nr. 3 (fear). And not use gs untill below 50% for gravedigger spam and then make sure I am standing in a firefield for the burn procs.. this also intale dropping soulreaper trait line since why have it when I barely use reaper form and then take.. blood I guess or something..

all in all I am having a hard time making a reaper condi build that work for single target. For open PvE, np, just use epidemic and you are sett.

Actually i use epidemic in fractals quite a lot, sometimes even as power build if the other guys are condi. I can give examples if you want, and its certainly not 1% of the fractals. And zudet you dont have to spread 25burns to be devastating, 25 bleeds + soft cc is pretty good. I could solo lich in labyrinth thanks to epidemic and im not even that good in soloing.

Aktium.9506:

But muh damage.

I’d totally get Viper gear if I didn’t have to do open world content to get it.

Life’s a b*tch sometimes =P

But joking aside, it really isn’t that bad to get the 500 aurillium needed for the exotic insignia and inscription recipes (assuming you are planning to convert one of your existing sets ofc). Didn’t feel significantly harder than getting the 800 bandit crests in SW for the sinister stuff and I found the events in Auric Basin to be very entertaining actually.

I hated every second of getting those bandit crests for sinister though. So much that I fled SW and simply grinded the SW reward track instead which was slow as hell.

Aktium.9506:

Full Asc Sinister Condi Reaper was a massive disappointment in PvE. 5k Burns, 1.1k Chills, 2.3k Poisons, 1.5k Bleeds was the highest I’ve gotten so far. I think I’m better off sticking with zerker even if mobs have Husk-tier toughness. RS1 needs like one offensive filler cond or something because you ain’t getting any bleeds except from the trait and staff/scepter and that’s awful. Whenever my RS emptied and a boss wasn’t dead and I ended up in Staff or Scepter/Dagger I could hear my sweet dps running away screaming and dying in a corner.

The highest I’ve gotten is about 1.1k chills, 7-8k poison (burst, sustain probably closer to you), 6-7k bleeds. The chill time is constantly up (if i don’t take epidemic or rise, so for boss fights that I don’t need extra damage reduction as much) and I don’t have any source of burn. This isn’t in an optimal group setting, just doing pugs.runs.

This is the build I use, I tweak a few things depending on the fight but overall I prefer shout cd reduction over chilling nova.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJArYnMbCN3gV3Ae3A0biFcBLuK+FHjQXtAQLIaD0BGBA-TByXABzq+jeK/m7BAAwyDNuDAdnAgR1D8gSQA-e

Pelopidas.2140:

Actually i use epidemic in fractals quite a lot, sometimes even as power build if the other guys are condi. I can give examples if you want, and its certainly not 1% of the fractals. And zudet you dont have to spread 25burns to be devastating, 25 bleeds + soft cc is pretty good. I could solo lich in labyrinth thanks to epidemic and im not even that good in soloing.

Still not sure if you read my post :/
– Bloomhunger – no adds
– Mossman – wolves, so usefull abit atleast
– Uncategorized Fractal – 4 bosses that you kill 1 at a time, so no add’s (you kill all 4 at end, so a little usefull.. very little
– Urban Battleground Fractal – 1 boss with 1 add, abit usefull but worth a whole slot?
– Molten Furnace Fractal – 1 boss = useless
– Snowblind Fractal – 1 boss = useless
– Cliffside Fractal – 1 boss = useless
– Underground Facility Fractal, Dredge boss – 1 boss = useless
– Underground Facility Fractal, Iceelemental boss – Add’s YES usefull

Do I need to list more of them?
Now, do read my original post again. In open world epidemic is clearly usefull. Its alot of “free” dmg, but for single target? nope, sry

Fractals aren’t 100% about bosses, and in later levels the trash has a decent chunk of HP to work through. So yeah you switch epidemic out for most boss fights, but for trash it’s worth having it on. Once you go through and get whatever achievements you want it basically becomes worthless though, since you only need to run swamp / molten duo for daily achievements. That and the specific level dailies are in the low range so you are better off just bringing a burst build most of the time.

They really dont though. Even in frac 100 the trash still die fast. Its only the bosses that have ridiculous armour and health scaling.

But that was my entire point. Epidemic doesnt make the class. Its situationally powerful. And its overrated because of that.

Sigfodr.9576:

Pelopidas.2140:

Actually i use epidemic in fractals quite a lot, sometimes even as power build if the other guys are condi. I can give examples if you want, and its certainly not 1% of the fractals. And zudet you dont have to spread 25burns to be devastating, 25 bleeds + soft cc is pretty good. I could solo lich in labyrinth thanks to epidemic and im not even that good in soloing.

Still not sure if you read my post :/
– Bloomhunger – no adds
– Mossman – wolves, so usefull abit atleast
– Uncategorized Fractal – 4 bosses that you kill 1 at a time, so no add’s (you kill all 4 at end, so a little usefull.. very little
– Urban Battleground Fractal – 1 boss with 1 add, abit usefull but worth a whole slot?
– Molten Furnace Fractal – 1 boss = useless
– Snowblind Fractal – 1 boss = useless
– Cliffside Fractal – 1 boss = useless
– Underground Facility Fractal, Dredge boss – 1 boss = useless
– Underground Facility Fractal, Iceelemental boss – Add’s YES usefull

Do I need to list more of them?
Now, do read my original post again. In open world epidemic is clearly usefull. Its alot of “free” dmg, but for single target? nope, sry

Well you clarified that you were talking about the bosses, so my mistake. Of course epidemic isnt useful on single targets/most endbosses in fractals, it is an AoE based skill that is potentially better than anything other classes can produce (potentially makes it overrated for some people). You forgot to mention some things though, like the ettin-flame shaman fight in uncategorized, the jellyfish in water and the grawl shaman.

spoj.9672:

They really dont though. Even in frac 100 the trash still die fast. Its only the bosses that have ridiculous armour and health scaling.

But that was my entire point. Epidemic doesnt make the class. Its situationally powerful. And its overrated because of that.

I’ve done 100 4 times now, twice as a power build and twice condition. A well placed epidemic is nice against the initial trash pull but of course it’s not 100% needed, but it certainly shines during the actual boss fight when the adds come out.

Uncategorized: Shaman / Ogre have a crap ton of HP and being able to epidemic on cd is a big deal. Ok on 4 golems at end at high level, they have enough hp that I personally feel its ok.

Grawl: Useful in initial pull, but extremely useful when lava adds pop out.

Swamp: It’s ok on moss, but who cares since people just bug him out anyway at this point.

Cliffside: Very useful when dealing with seals on both sides, tons of adds with a solid amount of hp. You can get off some nice condi spreads before they even reach the party.

Molten Facility: Useful on all of the trash pulls, useless on boss room.

Snowblind: This one is iffy, depends on how many elementals the group pulls but overall I think it’s worth taking as long as someone is able to group them up. Useless on boss.

Aetherblade: Epidemic is unblockable, the stupid golems at the end get the lightning shield constantly. Very good here with a bit of coordination or luck.

Molten Boss: useless

Thaumnova: Pretty solid for portal mobs, harder to avoid since the portal pull range seems to get ridiculous. Useless on boss

Aquatic: Useful because of all the jellyfish but who cares, this one is lame anyway.

Urban: Very useful up until boss, the adds deal alot of damage and don’t go splat right away.

Solid Ocean: Again useful because of all the adds that stick around, being able to take those annoying things out faster is always a plus.

Aktium.9506:

Skoigoth.9238:

@Aktium, if you don’t mind sharing, what does your set-up look like apart from the Sinister gear (traits, runes, sigils)? Given the comparatively low Bleed ticks, I’m assuming you are running a build focused on Shroud/Dhuumfire, maybe without Curses, yes?

Nah. I ran curses/sr/reaper with berzerker runes I just slapped a sigil of smoldering and bursting on my staff as well. I thought about going for flame legion/balth but the 5% increased damage on both power and condi should be worth more than and extra tick or two of burning if I did my math right. I’m still not entirely sure whether malice is better than smoldering for this tho and i cant be bothered to calc it. Anyway, either I’m worse than I thought at theorycrafting or condi reaper is awful.

Has the Berserker Rune bug been fixed? Wasn’t/isn’t the 6th tier skill not working?

Dunno, never tested the set without.

Altoid.9104:

spoj.9672:

They really dont though. Even in frac 100 the trash still die fast. Its only the bosses that have ridiculous armour and health scaling.

But that was my entire point. Epidemic doesnt make the class. Its situationally powerful. And its overrated because of that.

I’ve done 100 4 times now, twice as a power build and twice condition. A well placed epidemic is nice against the initial trash pull but of course it’s not 100% needed, but it certainly shines during the actual boss fight when the adds come out.

Uncategorized: Shaman / Ogre have a crap ton of HP and being able to epidemic on cd is a big deal. Ok on 4 golems at end at high level, they have enough hp that I personally feel its ok.

Grawl: Useful in initial pull, but extremely useful when lava adds pop out.

Swamp: It’s ok on moss, but who cares since people just bug him out anyway at this point.

Cliffside: Very useful when dealing with seals on both sides, tons of adds with a solid amount of hp. You can get off some nice condi spreads before they even reach the party.

Molten Facility: Useful on all of the trash pulls, useless on boss room.

Snowblind: This one is iffy, depends on how many elementals the group pulls but overall I think it’s worth taking as long as someone is able to group them up. Useless on boss.

Aetherblade: Epidemic is unblockable, the stupid golems at the end get the lightning shield constantly. Very good here with a bit of coordination or luck.

Molten Boss: useless

Thaumnova: Pretty solid for portal mobs, harder to avoid since the portal pull range seems to get ridiculous. Useless on boss

Aquatic: Useful because of all the jellyfish but who cares, this one is lame anyway.

Urban: Very useful up until boss, the adds deal alot of damage and don’t go splat right away.

Solid Ocean: Again useful because of all the adds that stick around, being able to take those annoying things out faster is always a plus.

Yeah see i dont know what kind of group you play in. But my group even with suboptimal class choices were melting all trash far too fast for epidemic to be meaningful on our rush to 100. I was swapping to condi for boss fights where epidemic was useless. Rest of the time i was just sticking with berserker. So i never once slotted epidemic. Although i do admit it has its uses. I did use it a fair bit in the past on ascalon and a few other places for extra aoe. But ive since learnt that a more effective approach is generally WoS, WoC and WoD and power.

I dont see why you are so determined to prove me wrong. I know epidemic is good and it has its uses. But its not good everywhere and its not good in 99% of boss fights. Which is why i consider it overrated. It certainly doesnt justify picking a condi build over power just because of epidemic. Its definitely not THAT good.

It’s because I disagree with what you said, and if you can really melt the mai trin adds down fast that’s pretty amazing. I was simply giving examples of where I found it to be pretty good, but I don’t think it’s a must have for every single fight. It’s a single utility skill with a huge amount of damage potential that you can easily switch in or out depending on the fight. In a group with other condition users (high level fotm) it becomes MUCH better since within the first few seconds of a fight you could potentially spread a crap ton of damage.

Yeah see the mai trin trash. All of them die instantly except the elite and the champ. Thats not good enough justification for epidemic.

But fractal scaling is borked at the moment. So conditions are just way more effective in general. So its not really fair to kitten on high fracs. My point still stands. Majority of long fights are boss fights. And epidemic is useless there. Therefore i feel its overrated. You can disagree. Thats fine.

I’m talking about the adds that spawn when she is at low life on tier 100. Those don’t die in seconds, they take a long while to put down.

Yeah but that’s a small portion of the overall fight. That is one of the better places. Still that’s just an example of a minority of niche situations. Which was my entire reasoning for the overrated comment. Its not good everywhere so its overrated.