Guild Wars 2

Dagger auto has a coefficient/s of 1.33

Reaper Shroud #1 with all the traits has coefficient/s of 1.2 but inflicts Burning, stacks Might and inflicts+pulses Vulnerability.

Which one is the better auto to camp?

PvP is definitely reaper shroud, I don’t think there is any doubt about that.

PvE is a bit different, vul stacking is pointless if everybody is on one boss so I will ignore that. I believe Reaper should be camping shroud for dps if and only if the group is unable to provide 25 stacks of might, which happens because sometimes you let the reaper be their own sub solo group while the buffers can buff other people since reaper can self sustain anyway. Or maybe you don’t have Heralds or PS warriors or eles….but that is unlikely to happen. Or you need to mow down a bunch of mobs, hey maybe one of the raid boss will be just a wave defense. That’s where reaper shines.

I’m just wondering if the burning from Dhuumfire is enough to make RS auto higher DPS than dagger auto.

I guess I’m getting a bit bored of 3 years of DS flashing builds.

Surely someone tested this during BWE 3? We have quite a few dedicated community individuals here that test numbers and time kills. Hopefully someone did test this over the BWE’s.

Here’s my thought.

With RS you can also get the weapon strength boost from using GS with it. So don’t forget that.

But, this also opens up a rotation. If D/(F or WH) is still better to sit in, you can still swap GS after a time, hit any skills worth hitting there and hop right into RS to mitigate that time, give it half a dozen seconds or so, swap back hit any skills up, and pop back into dagger.

Thing is I’m not sure if that’s better, and I’m not sure which skills to prioritize and when/where it’s worth it (IE should you wait for nightfall before going GS/RS or is just a gravedigger enough?)

gavyne.6847:

Surely someone tested this during BWE 3? We have quite a few dedicated community individuals here that test numbers and time kills. Hopefully someone did test this over the BWE’s.

Fastest kill times I got against golem was doing standard dagger rotations until 50% after which you could spam Gravedigger. RS felt pretty weak against static enemies. Only time it felt beneficial to damage was as an opener for getting 100% crit Focus 4 > Executioner’s Scythe before you got into dagger range.

Aktium.9506:

gavyne.6847:

Surely someone tested this during BWE 3? We have quite a few dedicated community individuals here that test numbers and time kills. Hopefully someone did test this over the BWE’s.

Fastest kill times I got against golem was doing standard dagger rotations until 50% after which you could spam Gravedigger. RS felt pretty weak against static enemies. Only time it felt beneficial to damage was as an opener for getting 100% crit Focus 4 > Executioner’s Scythe before you got into dagger range.

That’s a shame. I was hoping the elite spec would give necros more interesting rotations.

Jerus.4350:

With RS you can also get the weapon strength boost from using GS with it. So don’t forget that.

I dont think this is correct. RS doesnt work like DS regarding the the weapon coefficent. If i remember correctly RS always uses the hammer weapon coefficent but depends on the rarity of your equipped weapon much like weaponkits do. So GS and dagger for example should give the same damage in RS if they have the same rarity (and level).

Muchacho.2390:

Jerus.4350:

With RS you can also get the weapon strength boost from using GS with it. So don’t forget that.

I dont think this is correct. RS doesnt work like DS regarding the the weapon coefficent. If i remember correctly RS always uses the hammer weapon coefficent but depends on the rarity of your equipped weapon much like weaponkits do. So GS and dagger for example should give the same damage in RS if they have the same rarity (and level).

I believe it is actually an exotic level Hammer.

meow one twenty.4376:

Muchacho.2390:

Jerus.4350:

With RS you can also get the weapon strength boost from using GS with it. So don’t forget that.

I dont think this is correct. RS doesnt work like DS regarding the the weapon coefficent. If i remember correctly RS always uses the hammer weapon coefficent but depends on the rarity of your equipped weapon much like weaponkits do. So GS and dagger for example should give the same damage in RS if they have the same rarity (and level).

I believe it is actually an exotic level Hammer.

That would be horrible. If this is the case I hope it gets changed.

Its a hammer of whichever rarity your main hand weapon is, so if you have an ascended main its ascended as well.

Unless the tooltip doesn’t match the actual dmg, last BWE I did a quick tooltip check and it was showing higher damage with my greatsword on compared to my dagger+warhorn set. Made sure I did not receive any might or power modifier s while I did my check as well. Also, they were all same status(legendary)

I didn’t do numbers this time, but I do have a memory.

Last I had checked, reaper shroud AA had a tooltip DPS (with onslaught) of around 428, while dagger AA is around 448. Big note here, these values may have changed. Anyway, this puts the dagger auto at 4.7% higher damage than onslaught.

Generally I consider anything within 5% to be “roughly equal”, since the variance in damage output is 10% natively. This was with Reaper’s Onslaught equipped, so I was assuming a PVE setting where the extra sustain from Blighter’s Boon wasn’t needed. Upcoming content may change that fact, but needing extra sustain also makes sitting in shroud more useful. So it is a fair trade.

The quality of RS 1 is highly dependent on what you put into it. If you go into spite, it stacks might on auto. Rending Shroud, it passively stacks vulnerability. Unyielding Blast, it actively stacks a lot of vulnerability. Death’s Perception, it gets +50% chance to crit. Dhuumfire, it causes 1 × 3 burning on every target. Onslaught, increase all attack dependent effects by 15%. Blighter’s Boon, +130 health when traited in Spite.

If you make a build like curses/blood magic/reaper, you won’t get much from RS 1. If you make a build like Spite/Soul Reaping/Reaper, you’ll get a whole lot.

Well, with Reaper’s Onslaught, RS 1 clocks in with a coefficient per second if 1.2. Still don’t know what weapon is used for its base weapon strength but you’re looking at about an additional 10% DPS due to weapon strength when using dagger as a base.

So that gives it an effective coe/s of 1.32, which is basically the same as dagger.

yeah i wish i did some dps tests. ah well hot is coming out soon enough.

RS1 with dhummfire is lower than D/Wh using Wh5 and the 2 wells (can’t use well’s in RS) in a raid setting. In another thread, there was some rough map that suggested GS1 could rival the D/Wh damage but I have not seen any official math (with standardised enemy, 25 might, 25 vuln etc) to confirm this.

Right now, highest dps for reapers is dagger 1 + warhorn 5 whilst using the 2 wells until mob is 50%. Then spam GS 2. The damage of GS2 is enough to rival ele damage sub 50% but when combined with the ok damage of the d/wh in the previous 50%, it brings down reaper from highest dps to decent dps.

I think only RS 5 when mob is <25% hp is a dps boost. As such, ideally you don;t want to camp RS despite how cool it looks.

Note this is in a raid setting where you have 25 might and mob will have 25 vuln. Soloing, RS is better because of might and vuln generation).

Xae Isareth.1364:

Well, with Reaper’s Onslaught, RS 1 clocks in with a coefficient per second if 1.2. Still don’t know what weapon is used for its base weapon strength but you’re looking at about an additional 10% DPS due to weapon strength when using dagger as a base.

So that gives it an effective coe/s of 1.32, which is basically the same as dagger.

It uses a Hammer which has the same average damage as a GS just a different mix-max value for its weapon damage. Its also based on your weapons rarity so regardless of your mainhand it will always use the hammer. Its the reason as to why RS procs weapon swap.

Terra.8571:

Right now, highest dps for reapers is dagger 1 + warhorn 5 whilst using the 2 wells until mob is 50%. Then spam GS 2. The damage of GS2 is enough to rival ele damage sub 50% but when combined with the ok damage of the d/wh in the previous 50%, it brings down reaper from highest dps to decent dps.

Actually because of relative weapon strengths this isnt entirely true. a GS/Hammer are 10% stronger than daggers and about 22% better than warhorns and focus. All their auto attacks,RS with Dhuumfire, relatively do very similar damage over time on their own.

Terra.8571:

RS1 with dhummfire is lower than D/Wh using Wh5 and the 2 wells (can’t use well’s in RS) in a raid setting. In another thread, there was some rough map that suggested GS1 could rival the D/Wh damage but I have not seen any official math (with standardised enemy, 25 might, 25 vuln etc) to confirm this.

Right now, highest dps for reapers is dagger 1 + warhorn 5 whilst using the 2 wells until mob is 50%. Then spam GS 2. The damage of GS2 is enough to rival ele damage sub 50% but when combined with the ok damage of the d/wh in the previous 50%, it brings down reaper from highest dps to decent dps.

I think only RS 5 when mob is <25% hp is a dps boost. As such, ideally you don;t want to camp RS despite how cool it looks.

Note this is in a raid setting where you have 25 might and mob will have 25 vuln. Soloing, RS is better because of might and vuln generation).

Idk, RS1 with Onslaught and Dhuumfire on paper seems to be better DPS than a dagger. They both have about the same DPS if RS indeed uses hammer stats, but RS1 would also burn.

GS #1 does rival dagger 1 in terms of DPS, but you’re more likely to get interrupted cos its so slow (e.g you need to dodge), and has lower LF generation.

And RS5 is a DPS loss compared against Gravedigger at 25%. RS5 could use a buff IMO.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Terra.8571:

RS1 with dhummfire is lower than D/Wh using Wh5 and the 2 wells (can’t use well’s in RS) in a raid setting. In another thread, there was some rough map that suggested GS1 could rival the D/Wh damage but I have not seen any official math (with standardised enemy, 25 might, 25 vuln etc) to confirm this.

Right now, highest dps for reapers is dagger 1 + warhorn 5 whilst using the 2 wells until mob is 50%. Then spam GS 2. The damage of GS2 is enough to rival ele damage sub 50% but when combined with the ok damage of the d/wh in the previous 50%, it brings down reaper from highest dps to decent dps.

I think only RS 5 when mob is <25% hp is a dps boost. As such, ideally you don;t want to camp RS despite how cool it looks.

Note this is in a raid setting where you have 25 might and mob will have 25 vuln. Soloing, RS is better because of might and vuln generation).

Idk, RS1 with Onslaught and Dhuumfire on paper seems to be better DPS than a dagger. They both have about the same DPS if RS indeed uses hammer stats, but RS1 would also burn.

GS #1 does rival dagger 1 in terms of DPS, but you’re more likely to get interrupted cos its so slow (e.g you need to dodge), and has lower LF generation.

And RS5 is a DPS loss compared against Gravedigger at 25%. RS5 could use a buff IMO.

On their own dagger auto and gs auto do relatively the same damage, within 1%, where as RS auto does about 10% less dps but thats covered by burns with or without might.

Overall GS should do more dps in pve than dagger/horn just doesn’t passively generate as much life force.

Sigmoid.7082:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Well, with Reaper’s Onslaught, RS 1 clocks in with a coefficient per second if 1.2. Still don’t know what weapon is used for its base weapon strength but you’re looking at about an additional 10% DPS due to weapon strength when using dagger as a base.

So that gives it an effective coe/s of 1.32, which is basically the same as dagger.

It uses a Hammer which has the same average damage as a GS just a different mix-max value for its weapon damage. Its also based on your weapons rarity so regardless of your mainhand it will always use the hammer. Its the reason as to why RS procs weapon swap.

Terra.8571:

Right now, highest dps for reapers is dagger 1 + warhorn 5 whilst using the 2 wells until mob is 50%. Then spam GS 2. The damage of GS2 is enough to rival ele damage sub 50% but when combined with the ok damage of the d/wh in the previous 50%, it brings down reaper from highest dps to decent dps.

Actually because of relative weapon strengths this isnt entirely true. a GS/Hammer are 10% stronger than daggers and about 22% better than warhorns and focus. All their auto attacks,RS with Dhuumfire, relatively do very similar damage over time on their own.

I’m trying to find the math I saw (unfortunatey I didn;t record/ test Reaper dps last BWE), but it’s when the well damage is added to dagger 1 + warhorn 5 that make’s it slightly greater than camping RS1 with dhummfire (you need to camp it because losing the burn stacks is a noticeable dps loss to this build).

The other thing to note is Dhuumfire is in SR line, a line not usually used for grouping because the loss of support. And by not taking BM you lose Vampiric and Vampiric presence.

If RS dps was high enough to match the top tier classes, then I guess a case could be made for taking it. Right now though, because reaper dps is heavily skewed between first and second half of fights the overall dps is only decent (number’s I’ve seen have been as low as 12k, as high as 15k). The latter is closer to the mark assuming a high landing of GS 2.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Terra.8571:

RS1 with dhummfire is lower than D/Wh using Wh5 and the 2 wells (can’t use well’s in RS) in a raid setting. In another thread, there was some rough map that suggested GS1 could rival the D/Wh damage but I have not seen any official math (with standardised enemy, 25 might, 25 vuln etc) to confirm this.

Right now, highest dps for reapers is dagger 1 + warhorn 5 whilst using the 2 wells until mob is 50%. Then spam GS 2. The damage of GS2 is enough to rival ele damage sub 50% but when combined with the ok damage of the d/wh in the previous 50%, it brings down reaper from highest dps to decent dps.

I think only RS 5 when mob is <25% hp is a dps boost. As such, ideally you don;t want to camp RS despite how cool it looks.

Note this is in a raid setting where you have 25 might and mob will have 25 vuln. Soloing, RS is better because of might and vuln generation).

Idk, RS1 with Onslaught and Dhuumfire on paper seems to be better DPS than a dagger. They both have about the same DPS if RS indeed uses hammer stats, but RS1 would also burn.

GS #1 does rival dagger 1 in terms of DPS, but you’re more likely to get interrupted cos its so slow (e.g you need to dodge), and has lower LF generation.

And RS5 is a DPS loss compared against Gravedigger at 25%. RS5 could use a buff IMO.

The RS 5 comment was from someone who mentioned it may be. As I posted above, I need to do some testing, but well dps really helps dagger. Also I forgot to add, vampiric and vampiric presence will also help because to get Dhummfire you prolly dopped BM for SR. Overall though, there isn;t a huge difference between the 2.

DEKeyz recorded Reaper cast times and coefficients in BWE2, and Robert Gee told us the full details of the BWE3 changes, so you can just calculate it yourself.

I’ve never really found vampire builds to be worthwhile in PvE, because the dodge or die design combined with the zerker meta means the small heals from your traits don’t really make much of a difference. Perhaps raids will be different, haven’t tried it yet but I’m hearing reapers don’t have a place in it.

Personally though, I am hoping they buff RS1 so we get a more complex and I retesting rotation involving juggling dagger 1 and RS in between skill cooldowns.

Xae Isareth.1364:

DEKeyz recorded Reaper cast times and coefficients in BWE2, and Robert Gee told us the full details of the BWE3 changes, so you can just calculate it yourself.

I’ve never really found vampire builds to be worthwhile in PvE, because the dodge or die design combined with the zerker meta means the small heals from your traits don’t really make much of a difference. Perhaps raids will be different, haven’t tried it yet but I’m hearing reapers don’t have a place in it.

Personally though, I am hoping they buff RS1 so we get a more complex and I retesting rotation involving juggling dagger 1 and RS in between skill cooldowns.

I’m not a necro main, but playing it over the BWE (because so many people recommended it), I thought I’d give it a try. GS was meh and was gonna quit. Then I found RS, RS is amazing. It just feels cool (forget everything else). If RS dps was buffed I’d be elated. We’ll see I guess.

I don’t main necro either because I always considered it as a PvP class. PvE wise the necro we have up to now us IMO the most boring class in the game to play as.

GS is really cool but I’m not a huge fan of the post 50% Gravedigger spam.

But my tastes arent for everyone. My favourite class is the engineer and I know a lot of people hate the keyboard piano nature of playing that class.

Muchacho.2390:

Jerus.4350:

With RS you can also get the weapon strength boost from using GS with it. So don’t forget that.

I dont think this is correct. RS doesnt work like DS regarding the the weapon coefficent. If i remember correctly RS always uses the hammer weapon coefficent but depends on the rarity of your equipped weapon much like weaponkits do. So GS and dagger for example should give the same damage in RS if they have the same rarity (and level).

That’s unfortunate, I thought that brought a neat element to it. And if it’s always exotic that should surely be a bug/oversight/temporary element.

Xae Isareth.1364:

DEKeyz recorded Reaper cast times and coefficients in BWE2, and Robert Gee told us the full details of the BWE3 changes, so you can just calculate it yourself.

I’ve never really found vampire builds to be worthwhile in PvE, because the dodge or die design combined with the zerker meta means the small heals from your traits don’t really make much of a difference. Perhaps raids will be different, haven’t tried it yet but I’m hearing reapers don’t have a place in it.

Personally though, I am hoping they buff RS1 so we get a more complex and I retesting rotation involving juggling dagger 1 and RS in between skill cooldowns.

Dodge or die for dungeons for sure, no sympathy for those that need the healing, but for higher level fractals some extra support is always nice, plus invuln enemies still take leach damage

One of the guilds that beat the raid used a reaper, they won with a minute left, I’d hardly count reaper out as an option, optimal ehh, who knows, but surely an option.

Jerus.4350:

Muchacho.2390:

Jerus.4350:

With RS you can also get the weapon strength boost from using GS with it. So don’t forget that.

I dont think this is correct. RS doesnt work like DS regarding the the weapon coefficent. If i remember correctly RS always uses the hammer weapon coefficent but depends on the rarity of your equipped weapon much like weaponkits do. So GS and dagger for example should give the same damage in RS if they have the same rarity (and level).

That’s unfortunate, I thought that brought a neat element to it. And if it’s always exotic that should surely be a bug/oversight/temporary element.

Technically you still get a weapon strength boost from shroud because it uses a hammer. Hammers have the exact same average weapon power as GS do. So relative to a dagger you are still going 10% more damage. The only difference is shroud not being weaker because of the mainland dagger.

Jerus.4350:

Xae Isareth.1364:

DEKeyz recorded Reaper cast times and coefficients in BWE2, and Robert Gee told us the full details of the BWE3 changes, so you can just calculate it yourself.

I’ve never really found vampire builds to be worthwhile in PvE, because the dodge or die design combined with the zerker meta means the small heals from your traits don’t really make much of a difference. Perhaps raids will be different, haven’t tried it yet but I’m hearing reapers don’t have a place in it.

Personally though, I am hoping they buff RS1 so we get a more complex and I retesting rotation involving juggling dagger 1 and RS in between skill cooldowns.

Dodge or die for dungeons for sure, no sympathy for those that need the healing, but for higher level fractals some extra support is always nice, plus invuln enemies still take leach damage

One of the guilds that beat the raid used a reaper, they won with a minute left, I’d hardly count reaper out as an option, optimal ehh, who knows, but surely an option.

I don’t really see why someone would take a Reaper for vale guardian but maybe later bosses have mass add killing phases or mechanics which forces you to tank damage.

Sigmoid.7082:

Jerus.4350:

Muchacho.2390:

Jerus.4350:

With RS you can also get the weapon strength boost from using GS with it. So don’t forget that.

I dont think this is correct. RS doesnt work like DS regarding the the weapon coefficent. If i remember correctly RS always uses the hammer weapon coefficent but depends on the rarity of your equipped weapon much like weaponkits do. So GS and dagger for example should give the same damage in RS if they have the same rarity (and level).

That’s unfortunate, I thought that brought a neat element to it. And if it’s always exotic that should surely be a bug/oversight/temporary element.

Technically you still get a weapon strength boost from shroud because it uses a hammer. Hammers have the exact same average weapon power as GS do. So relative to a dagger you are still going 10% more damage. The only difference is shroud not being weaker because of the mainland dagger.

Yeah I get it, I just kind of liked that extra layer of intricacy in wanting to have a 2hander out when going into shroud.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Jerus.4350:

Xae Isareth.1364:

DEKeyz recorded Reaper cast times and coefficients in BWE2, and Robert Gee told us the full details of the BWE3 changes, so you can just calculate it yourself.

I’ve never really found vampire builds to be worthwhile in PvE, because the dodge or die design combined with the zerker meta means the small heals from your traits don’t really make much of a difference. Perhaps raids will be different, haven’t tried it yet but I’m hearing reapers don’t have a place in it.

Personally though, I am hoping they buff RS1 so we get a more complex and I retesting rotation involving juggling dagger 1 and RS in between skill cooldowns.

Dodge or die for dungeons for sure, no sympathy for those that need the healing, but for higher level fractals some extra support is always nice, plus invuln enemies still take leach damage

One of the guilds that beat the raid used a reaper, they won with a minute left, I’d hardly count reaper out as an option, optimal ehh, who knows, but surely an option.

I don’t really see why someone would take a Reaper for vale guardian but maybe later bosses have mass add killing phases or mechanics which forces you to tank damage.

No great reason why, but it is good dps and the bits of healing/rez utility can be nice, especially when a dead = dead mechanic is in raids. Transfusion someone out of a damaging floor, rez them up quick, and no bleeding out while downed. Ehh I see some nice bits of utility in case people screw up, all while not having a major loss of damage. Then like you say, who knows what’s coming later. Waves of enemies could be nice for us.

Hey, if Anet really can’t come up with any ideas, they can pull a vanilla WoW :p

Have the boss have a mechanic where it needs to be chilled and then burnt to deal damage to it. Necros would be right at home.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Hey, if Anet really can’t come up with any ideas, they can pull a vanilla WoW :p

Have the boss have a mechanic where it needs to be chilled and then burnt to deal damage to it. Necros would be right at home.

… I liked those mechanics (was an EQ guy here but we had it there too).

I remember one where you had to alternate, been a LONG time but I want to say if you did more than a couple of the same in a row you’d buff the boss or have it reflect or something like that, so you had to alternate fire and ice to keep it vulnerable and maintain that alternating otherwise face the consequences… I remember it being pretty fun.

Jerus.4350:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Hey, if Anet really can’t come up with any ideas, they can pull a vanilla WoW :p

Have the boss have a mechanic where it needs to be chilled and then burnt to deal damage to it. Necros would be right at home.

… I liked those mechanics (was an EQ guy here but we had it there too).

I remember one where you had to alternate, been a LONG time but I want to say if you did more than a couple of the same in a row you’d buff the boss or have it reflect or something like that, so you had to alternate fire and ice to keep it vulnerable and maintain that alternating otherwise face the consequences… I remember it being pretty fun.

That’s an actual mechanic. I was talking about the non-mechanics like that boss where you had to kill it with ice damage otherwise it will stay on 1 HP. Stuff that didn’t really make players do anything different but just required certain classes or gear. The stuff that was there either just for lore/logical reasons or just because they wanted people to get a certain type of gear or use a certain class.

The stuff that’s basically lazy design.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Jerus.4350:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Hey, if Anet really can’t come up with any ideas, they can pull a vanilla WoW :p

Have the boss have a mechanic where it needs to be chilled and then burnt to deal damage to it. Necros would be right at home.

… I liked those mechanics (was an EQ guy here but we had it there too).

I remember one where you had to alternate, been a LONG time but I want to say if you did more than a couple of the same in a row you’d buff the boss or have it reflect or something like that, so you had to alternate fire and ice to keep it vulnerable and maintain that alternating otherwise face the consequences… I remember it being pretty fun.

That’s an actual mechanic. I was talking about the non-mechanics like that boss where you had to kill it with ice damage otherwise it will stay on 1 HP. Stuff that didn’t really make players do anything different but just required certain classes or gear. The stuff that was there either just for lore/logical reasons or just because they wanted people to get a certain type of gear or use a certain class.

The stuff that’s basically lazy design.

I don’t know if I’d call it lazy, imperfect seems to fit better. Sometimes it’s just hard to get things fun andperfect without a ton of work. It’s not lazy to do a one day discussion/design/approval/implementation when the alternative would take a month. That’s being reasonable.

The good thing about GW2 is there’s not really anything that only specific professions can do, at least not much. I think something like a waves of trash that could only take one type of damage for each type in the waves would force people to know their professions and the team to correctly balance their force to handle it.

Honestly, we don’t have enough data to fully test where RS1 stands. I’ve heard some interesting ideas including running Flame Legion runes for higher burn uptime (Because a lot of people have said keeping the Scholars buff is considerably tougher now). Best bet is to wait for the release and give us time to settle in with it.

From just running both D/W, GS and RS1 each once in a fractal 50 I saw little difference in damage. GS and D/W are still better, I can easily say that’s correct. However, with how raids look It’s possible having RS1 could be beneficial because of the protective second healthbar. Our easy vuln capping abilities could be of use aswell in less optimized teams.

I just want to see what the later bosses do, cause in a Vale Guardian like fight, we don’t offer too much vs running the optimized comps. I don’t want them to force groups to take a necro for some haywire mechanic, we should have a place like every other class.

Me personally, I love RS. I’ve always been a power necro fan and I love the shroud mechanic, It’s the big reason I’ve been maining the necro for a good three years. I’ll most likely be doing an RS build even If the damage falls short, mainly in smaller groups such as fractals… Where vuln capping will be a lot more valuable. All that aside I do think RS1 needs a damage buff, It should be doing the most damage out of our autos and RS5 also needs one. I’m ALL for a more interesting rotation.

From the quick math I have done as long as you take dhuumfire RS auto is the strongest auto of the lot, without its the weakest. This is more so the case with flame legion runes, especially on targets with high toughness. Fore pure auto attacks i got: RSauto+Dhuumfire>Daggerauto>=GSauto>RSauto

Also from quick math GS>dagger/horn overall because of nightfall and grave digger with relative weapon damage differences. Not sure if what is better to use above 50% though but below 50% its GD spam all the way.

Sigmoid.7082:

From the quick math I have done as long as you take dhuumfire RS auto is the strongest auto of the lot, without its the weakest. This is more so the case with flame legion runes, especially on targets with high toughness. Fore pure auto attacks i got: RSauto+Dhuumfire>Daggerauto>=GSauto>RSauto

Also from quick math GS>dagger/horn overall because of nightfall and grave digger with relative weapon damage differences. Not sure if what is better to use above 50% though but below 50% its GD spam all the way.

Is that calculated with hammer strength and the 0.2 sec aftercast reduction in mind?

Assuming RS uses hammer weapon strength and the coefficients calculated is correct, if you took Onslaught, RS 1 would have 2.4/(2.3/1.15)= 1.2 coe/second.

GS auto is also 1.2/s. Dagger is 1.33/s but taking into account of dagger weapon strength, the 3 are very close to each other.

Personally I think RS1 should have 1.2 as base instead of with Onslaught, given that Shroud needs LF to run and the 10 second cooldown on entering shroud means there’s a potential opportunity cost involved. So it having higher trained damage would be rather fair.

Is that calculated with hammer strength and the 0.2 sec aftercast reduction in mind?

The weapon damage yes but not the aftercast. Hammers also have the same average weapon damage in total as great-swords at 1100 at ascended level. This is 10% higher than daggers so relative to daggers their coeffs are 10% higher.

Assuming RS uses hammer weapon strength and the coefficients calculated is correct, if you took Onslaught, RS 1 would have 2.4/(2.3/1.15)= 1.2 coe/second.

Factoring in the after cast reduction i missed out would mean with onslaught reapers should would have a 1.32 coeff a second relative to dagger which identical to GS.

GS auto is also 1.2/s. Dagger is 1.33/s but taking into account of dagger weapon strength, the 3 are very close to each other.

GS auto, relative to dagger, has a coeff per second of 1.32. Hence why i said those two are practically the same. Which after redoing the math is also the same as RS auto. Which means with dhuumfire RS auto is actually the far better auto attack.

Personally I think RS1 should have 1.2 as base instead of with Onslaught, given that Shroud needs LF to run and the 10 second cooldown on entering shroud means there’s a potential opportunity cost involved. So it having higher trained damage would be rather fair.

I wouldn’t agree with this because it would mean that the chain would have a coeff of 3 in total, which is the same as grave digger. Means relative to dagger RSauto would have a coeff/s of 1.65 with onslaught. Add burning with flame legion runes and you would be looking at something much higher blowing literally everything else we have out of the water.

Ehhh, on a dagger weapon strength basis, making RS 1 have a base untraited 1.2/s would give it a 1.2*1.15*1.1 = 1.518 coe/s.

Gravedigger has 3 coe with a cast time of 1.7, giving it a 1.76*1.1= 1.94 coe/s on dagger basis, so that’s far stronger than RS1 even with the suggestion.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Ehhh, on a dagger weapon strength basis, making RS 1 have a base untraited 1.2/s would give it a 1.2*1.15*1.1 = 1.518 coe/s.

Gravedigger has 3 coe with a cast time of 1.7, giving it a 1.76*1.1= 1.94 coe/s on dagger basis, so that’s far stronger than RS1 even with the suggestion.

I was under the impression that Gravedigger spam was ~2s damage-to-damage (including the very substantial aftercast), giving it (3/2=1.5)*1.1 = 1.65 coe/s relative to dagger. Although that’s still stronger than the traited RS1 you calculated.

Son of Urza.1692:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Ehhh, on a dagger weapon strength basis, making RS 1 have a base untraited 1.2/s would give it a 1.2*1.15*1.1 = 1.518 coe/s.

Gravedigger has 3 coe with a cast time of 1.7, giving it a 1.76*1.1= 1.94 coe/s on dagger basis, so that’s far stronger than RS1 even with the suggestion.

I was under the impression that Gravedigger spam was ~2s damage-to-damage (including the very substantial aftercast), giving it (3/2=1.5)*1.1 = 1.65 coe/s relative to dagger. Although that’s still stronger than the traited RS1 you calculated.

I was getting my numbers from here:https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3g9jt1/necro_reaper_actual_cast_times/

thats from BWE1 but we know all the changes since then.

If RS1 can net the same DPS as Dagger, then GS/Axe/RS looks to be a good all-purpose power build.

But is it worth taking Soul Reaping over Curses or Blood Magic to make RS auto competitive with Dagger?

OlliX.1705:

But is it worth taking Soul Reaping over Curses or Blood Magic to make RS auto competitive with Dagger?

Dagger auto :1.33c/s
GS and RS auto: a relative 1.32c/s

All three are practically the same. So depending on build you can take whatever line you want. Blood fore more support since transfusion procs 12 times, Curses for…stuff, Soul reaping for maximum damage in shroud and shroud effectiveness.

I personally don’t think its even a close comparison between blood and anything else if we are talking about a group environment seeing as blood contains the only unique group support effect in necromancer. When it gets to necros 3+ then its a consideration (aura already covers entire raid), or if the necro is going to be in range of only one or two other players (which would give a high probability of vulnerability and might not being fully stacked).

Wait, does vamp aura not have the 5 men limitation?

Warscythes.9307:

Wait, does vamp aura not have the 5 men limitation?

It does. It’s still great.

One thing that no one has considered in this thread so far is how RS locks your HP at a certain value while RS takes the damage for you. This means that you can more easily maintain your scholar bonus. In testing in BWE3 this was actually a very important deciding factor. Let’s also not forget that you have stability in RS, so you can just facetank CC and not interrupt your attacking rotation with a dodge.

This means that you can more easily maintain your scholar bonus. In testing in BWE3 this was actually a very important deciding factor.

Still, its not the most consistent bonus about and you cant shroud forever. Also means you have to be careful when you enter shroud since even with siphons you can lose its bonus for a while. That said as long as you can maintain it its the highest dps rune but the others arent far behind and are far more easily managed. Flame legion, Wurm, Strength, Scholar. All good options and from napkin the difference between them isnt too large depending on build.

Onerios.4962:

I personally don’t think its even a close comparison between blood and anything else if we are talking about a group environment seeing as blood contains the only unique group support effect in necromancer. When it gets to necros 3+ then its a consideration (aura already covers entire raid), or if the necro is going to be in range of only one or two other players (which would give a high probability of vulnerability and might not being fully stacked).

I dont know what future raid encounters are going to be like but in dungeons and fractals, as I commented previously, leech support barely makes any difference so I personally prefer to just maximise my damage over it.