Guild Wars 2

I was not expecting to be making this post, this is essentially a summary of my 3 years of playing this class. When i saw what the spec is, I was so excited by the new stuff and how much better than the base class it is that i made the mistake of assuming that better meant effective. During the beta i was more interested in Revenant so i should have caught this earlier.

So Ive been running Necro since release and as bad as it is with Shroud being treated as this almighty profession mechanic that can be kited around i still sometimes found ways to get around how optionless the whole class is. So in comes Reaper, shortened the range on everything but increased the damage potential, ok, so how is the lost range being compensated for? After a whole weekend and more than 20 builds later, I found nothing.

The truth of the matter is, in PvP what counts is how fast you are and how able you are at responding to fights that change very quickly. Can you immediately neutralize a ranger suddenly shooting at you from 1500 range while you are skirmishing with an engineer? Thief can, Revenant can, Mesmer can, even Guardian can but not Necro

Necro would have to first dodge, which is difficult with no endurance regen, use shroud and hope there is enough to tank the Ranger’s any number of high damage skills and have enough left over after you get there, if you get there . O wait, corrosive poison cloud, ok theres that, but its a rooted block. Ah hang on, theres deaths charge but the ranger is on a ledge and the range is 600. Ok ive got a pull on Greatsword with a 30 second cooldown that i have just managed not to need to pull the engineer I am already fighting so maybe I can drag the ranger, o, its 600 range. Ok lets do this, i mean this was the design plan right? we deaths charge near the ledge then use it, that will definitely work oh what do we have here, rangers gain stun immunity from pets. Fine, spec grasp, o hey it worked! oh wait what just happened, i cant see the ranger any more. So thats 4 skills, 4 skills just to handle a new opponent that ended up escaping . Meanwhile on revenant just 1, phase traversal, on Thief, too many options to count, on mesmer, just kill them at range if you dont want to bother with the several other options. list goes on and on.

A lot of people will say just stick by your team and you will be good, but does any other class have that same constraint? I have spent some time with Revenant and its quite the perfect class. Can cause so much chaos by itself without being dependant on what your team is doing. This goes for just about every other class (I wont even go into how Mesmer with chronomancer can avoid taking damage while killing anything for over 10 seconds straight) so why not Necro?

Revenant doesnt have the escapes some other classes have in PvP, there are no moas to use Phase traversal on if you are not holding up in the fight. No stealth, no blinks, it is basically fight or die and it is quite the beast at fighting, can respond to anything immediately so a well played Revenant that can avoid damage doesnt need to run. A well played necro is what? Life force management? but the class cannot handle fighting outside of shroud and cant gain lifeforce well in shroud so there will be too long periods of time where you have to slowly build life force while you are completely vulnerable to all the execution attacks. Even in Shroud, it doesnt take many attacks to completely lose it.

I was really looking forward to using Reaper, Greatsword, traitlines, all of it but after well over 20 builds and a whole weekend of testing and buying new runes, sigils and amulets nothing gives me the options needed to handle any PvP fight especially outnumbered ones. Personally had enough of this, i invested 3 years into the class, got fed up with the limitations then switched to acro thief last October (first time trying a new class) and was amazed at again the options I had on it, even more so on Revenant. I would love nothing better than to switch but I can’t since all my history is on Necro and will take a long time to do it again on another class.

My only suggestion to Anet on this matter since i’m honestly really tired of their flawed foundation for Necro is if the class can’t run then allow it to negate damage and effectively react to the threat, Necro cannot effectively react to range, ganks, kiting, stealth (still no reveal skill?), heavy evades, the long mesmer invulnerability while one shotting Shroud just to stealth afterwards, blind, and probably more i can’t remember. The only response you have given us to these things is shroud that naturally depletes very quickly and when taking heavy damage. On my thief i find reapers to be a complete joke, its worse on Revenant. The truly worst part of this is when traited, the shroud cooldown 3 years ago was 5 seconds, now its 7, next year i imagine you will just take out cooldown reduction completely.

Ragion.2831:

snip

The general gist of what i’ve gotten here is that you’ve had a bad experience playing Reaper and necromancer in general, and are generally fed up with all of our weaknesses that are part of playing ANY profession, so i’ll just stick to asking build information to improve your situation and say this:

Could you provide some technical information on what you’re running, you say you’ve played 20 different builds, and they all didn’t work for you, but are you talking about condi reaper, hybrid, power, tank, vampire? just saying generally our weaknesses suck (range/speed evade/cc) isn’t exactly explaining anything, and i can say my experiences as many others are completely different in play, (Winning outnumbered fights repeatedly)

Reaper is designed as a complete juggernaut and it works as that perfectly, it’s slow, unwieldy, and works thematically as well as mechanically as this “movie monster” they like to portray, It can one shot if it catches you, and keep on going, I haven’t seen anything so far that has made this a problem, and i want technical information on why you think it is a problem, and I’m not saying Reaper isn’t flawed in some ways, there’s a lot of things that need updating and overhauls still, but it works 99%. (Corruption skills, bleh)

Scott Lockharte.3412:

Ragion.2831:

snip

The general gist of what i’ve gotten here is that you’ve had a bad experience playing Reaper and necromancer in general, and are generally fed up with all of our weaknesses that are part of playing ANY profession, so i’ll just stick to asking build information to improve your situation and say this:

Could you provide some technical information on what you’re running, you say you’ve played 20 different builds, and they all didn’t work for you, but are you talking about condi reaper, hybrid, power, tank, vampire? just saying generally our weaknesses suck (range/speed evade/cc) isn’t exactly explaining anything, and i can say my experiences as many others are completely different in play, (Winning outnumbered fights repeatedly)

Reaper is designed as a complete juggernaut and it works as that perfectly, it’s slow, unwieldy, and works thematically as well as mechanically as this “movie monster” they like to portray, It can one shot if it catches you, and keep on going, I haven’t seen anything so far that has made this a problem, and i want technical information on why you think it is a problem, and I’m not saying Reaper isn’t flawed in some ways, there’s a lot of things that need updating and overhauls still, but it works 99%. (Corruption skills, bleh)

Just look at a Death Magic Soldier build… High base power (little might generation, but meh) and ridiculous armor for a light armor class (Corrupter’s Fervor is basically a tank Reaper’s dream) Throw that into the middle of a team fight and watch chaos ensue. (The high base power is very helpful combined with Decimate Defenses and Death Perception, though obviously you won’t be hitting huge crits. Still, Reaper’s Onslaught messes things up reeeal good)

Reaper is worse than Necromancer in Pvp.

(EDIT: and Necromancer was considered bad, almost never considered meta)

You have near zero ranged pressure, so you are hard countered by everybody who can move.

The things that anet can do t fix this is fix Axe (and Scepter and focus) or increase Chill Durations, but they punted rather than fix axe and released insulting chill runes of the Reaper.

The Official word is they are scared of axe because it doesn’t have a visible projectile tell and just hits… So they are being conservative. (which means in real talk that axe will always suck because it’s skills were released broken).

The few High level Pvp Necromancers aren’t going Reaper because Reaper Sucks.

Someone is ranting like I was in last BWE, i ran reaper and felt like crap, couldn’t beat anything decent.

I ran reaper,spite,soul reaping and end up having no life force building up before I die and was a total drag for my team.
The I went on the forums and went on a rather embarrassing rant.
This time hot comes live and i practiced reapers in the harsh environment of modern, after wards got my chronomancer friend to teach me a bit of Mesmer and Chronomancer, dueled couple tempest guildys and then spend a good day fixing my rotations.

Got a build down then spend a couple duels trying mastering it, got guilds to look at my build and critique, the find alternatives of the build and tried them out, then dueled more guildys to find And polish my builds
And just yesterday. I took on a warrior+chronomancer 2v1 that was in a premade, I made the warrior disengage then worked down the chronomancer, while using some terrain advantage, it’s was a difficult fight but I managedto win. Stability death charged out of gravity well, then surived warrior’s rampage before attempted to run away after I 25%ed him

Also absolutely trashed a 2v4 with my ele friend

I think you just had a problem with adjusting to play style, reaper is vastly different compared to necro, once you have adjusted to it it’s no big deal, I still have problem against chronomancer,scrapper,DH, and heralds, but not getting completely trashed. I find my timing and setting up skills to be much better than I was in last BWE, and that was completely crucial

I’m actually really curious why those who don’t like the class, and haven’t liked it for a long time, are still playing it? What is the draw?

As for Reaper, feels a little early to tell. I’d definitely like to see changes to axe, scepter, staff, and damage mods / active survival, but I don’t think anyone’s had enough time with the spec and matchups to determine it better or worse.

The “death magic soldier reaper” is nowhere near scrapper level. Just compare Corrupter’s Fervor to Adaptive Armor, have a maddening laugh, then try to imagine that it’s just the tip of the iceberg.

It’s tough to learn a new profession after 3 years of necro, but think about how rewarding it will be. Ok, I also try to convince myself here.

Well thats your Opinion, and i dont share it but i guess ppl here have mastered the Reaper already.

Ara.4569:

The “death magic soldier reaper” is nowhere near scrapper level. Just compare Corrupter’s Fervor to Adaptive Armor, have a maddening laugh, then try to imagine that it’s just the tip of the iceberg.

It’s tough to learn a new profession after 3 years of necro, but think about how rewarding it will be. Ok, I also try to convince myself here.

Why in the unholy hell do scrappers get a better corrupter’s fervor? I think they need to really look at Death Magic and make it a truly tank line… Although, I still think the build is kitten decent (replace the fighter runes with (ugh) scrapper runes)

nekretaal.6485:

Reaper is worse than Necromancer in Pvp.

(EDIT: and Necromancer was considered bad, almost never considered meta)

You have near zero ranged pressure, so you are hard countered by everybody who can move.

The things that anet can do t fix this is fix Axe (and Scepter and focus) or increase Chill Durations, but they punted rather than fix axe and released insulting chill runes of the Reaper.

The Official word is they are scared of axe because it doesn’t have a visible projectile tell and just hits… So they are being conservative. (which means in real talk that axe will always suck because it’s skills were released broken).

The few High level Pvp Necromancers aren’t going Reaper because Reaper Sucks.

Did you even watch NA ESL on Sunday? (there were a few reapers, not as much as say dragonhunter, but they were well represented enough) Yeah most of the reaper’s went celestial, which is iffy imo, but Noscoc’s soldier’s build is very strong and similar to what I had been running all along in the betas since cele sucks with reaper since you can’t have mightstacking, weakness spam, and vital persitance all in one build. And yeah he used Axe/horn on his build since RS is enough melee cleave on a point, though I’d still use the heal shout over the heal signet on his build for even better sustain. Right now reaper is extremely strong at pointholding and teamfighting since reveneants/tempests can literally feed you boons.

Also in general the meta has shifted towards teamfighting and AoE spam on a point, so you should think in that sense where reaper is very strong instead of whining about being countered in 1v1 from 1500 range when you still hold the point, which is what wins conquest.

you guys have not tried condi reaper I take it, the pressure even from 1200 / 900 range is quite ridiculous now with chill doing dmg.

Dead.5829:

I’m actually really curious why those who don’t like the class, and haven’t liked it for a long time, are still playing it? What is the draw?

As for Reaper, feels a little early to tell. I’d definitely like to see changes to axe, scepter, staff, and damage mods / active survival, but I don’t think anyone’s had enough time with the spec and matchups to determine it better or worse.

That is a GREAT question, see i really like this class, if i didnt i wouldnt bother with this topic at all. I like this class for two reasons; one i started with this class, learned the game on the class, got Dragon on this class, Alot of PvE on it too. So when i think about my time in gw2 its Necromancer that comes to mind.

The second reason is the class has a lot of depth to it, not sure how to explain it but using the class has a certain weight to it (and i dont mean its slowness which doesnt pay off at all)

Where it all goes wrong is that if there is something you need to overcome, you have nothing to do it with. With other classes, their defense actually negates everything. Revenant is the best example, without Mallyx its weak to condis but that doesnt matter because you can kite, block, evade so you can very quickly defend against that weakness. Necromancer is a different story, you have to first tank your weakness, really, its called a weakness for a reason if it could be tanked then it wouldnt be a weakness to begin with.

Ravezaar.4951:

Well thats your Opinion, and i dont share it but i guess ppl here have mastered the Reaper already.

I promise you, there is no Reaper alive that I or any experienced player can’t completely shutdown on a class like Thief or Revenant, Look at Holts fight with the Daredevil, Holts is a great player, but notice how much he struggles just to hit, the only thing that helped him was that the thieves made mistakes. Revenant is 10x worse, it can do 10k without you hitting at all.

Okay, so a few specific builds are a hard matchup for Reaper, which shouldn’t surprise us while playing a profession that has hard countered all condition builds since launch. Bad matchups will happen, they are the result of builds that are focused on niches, with those niches happening to have a really bad face to face matchup.

Disagree with OP. I created another post with my condi/hybrid build: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fgw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FvRAQJAWRnc0A12g92AG3A0bilgBLuIuEjiUXhvQvKKBEAKXA-TJhBwAAuEAU3fIzTAocZAA, and quite frankly I feel like Reaper is an awesome upgrade… Staff does lots of pressure at 1200 range now, and Reaper is amazing in close group fights…

AoE fear that adds fear and chill, both deal damage while adding stability to yourself on a 20 sec cooldown (base, can be decreased), area stun that also adds chill, does good damage (and chill also does damage), is an ice field on 30 sec cooldown (base can be decreased) is very impressive. Oh yeah, you also gain life force by attacking chilled enemies, so you can actually maintain your shroud for longer the more enemies you attack (no ICD), since your attacks now cleave… Just amazing. Reaper has a lot of sinergy with itself, and i feel its the most viable in group fights since condi meta with dhuumfire/plague.

GS is also pretty good, skills #5 and #4 have lots of utility in group fights, GS#3 is interesting for vulnerabilty builds and GS#2 has good AoE damage and combos with GS#4.

Can it counter everything? Hell no, and thats what makes it fun to play. But there are usually quite a few ways to deal with different situations… For example, a well placed Well or a Spectral Wall can easily kill enemies depending or their positioning. Trapping them with a spectral wall for example near a corner can dish out 8+ seconds of fear, chill and damage from both while doing extreme CC. Or countering them with wells, using pets as meat shields (which can block the entire damage from you using LOS), the list goes on.

I can’t play mesmer if my life depended on it (really, I can’t burst shatter or get used to chrono portal no matter how many times I try), but that doesn’t mean its a bad class, it just doens’t fits my playstyle at all. All Guild Wars classes have specific mechanics that make them play in specific ways, and maybe necromancer is a bad match for you.

You mention acro thief as something you enjoyed playing in PvP, and its a really different playstyle from necro, based completely in stealth / mobility. It also has 0 utility in team fights, so its a good class to solo far or attack incoming reinforcements, but not that useful in middle. Necro is the exactly opposite, pretty weak at far (can be burst easily and can’t desingage), but is very solid in middle.

The “death magic soldier reaper” is nowhere near scrapper level. Just compare Corrupter’s Fervor to Adaptive Armor, have a maddening laugh, then try to imagine that it’s just the tip of the iceberg.

while on first glance adaptive armor looks better, the difference is that adaptive armor requires a minimum of 5 seconds of continuous hits to max out.

corruptor’s ferver OTOH can hit maximum stacks just from fight-entry skills before you ever take a hit

the 300-500 toughness difference is annoying, though shrug

Shoe.5821:

The “death magic soldier reaper” is nowhere near scrapper level. Just compare Corrupter’s Fervor to Adaptive Armor, have a maddening laugh, then try to imagine that it’s just the tip of the iceberg.

while on first glance adaptive armor looks better, the difference is that adaptive armor requires a minimum of 5 seconds of continuous hits to max out.

corruptor’s ferver OTOH can hit maximum stacks just from fight-entry skills before you ever take a hit

the 300-500 toughness difference is annoying, though shrug

I had someone earlier ask me how I’m so durable as a reaper while we were fighting the cave troll hero challenge in Tangled Depths. Death Magic for the win (seriously though, the minors need work. 3 seconds of protection upon exit from shroud as a grandmaster minor? yeah, no)

Shoe.5821:

while on first glance adaptive armor looks better, the difference is that adaptive armor requires a minimum of 5 seconds of continuous hits to max out.

corruptor’s ferver OTOH can hit maximum stacks just from fight-entry skills before you ever take a hit

the 300-500 toughness difference is annoying, though shrug

Adaptive Armor immediately maxes out its anti-condition, takes only 3s of being hit to match CF, has a 67% higher toughness limit (which also synergizes with conversions better), and is impossible to fall off in a fight, whereas CF has to be actively maintained. The 3s ramp up is pretty much irrelevant, and is the only way in which its weaker.

Just a side note i should have mentioned earlier. It is entirely possible this is a learn to play issue, if you think that is the case please help me understand why, perhaps even post a build and explain how the build can cover its weaknesses indirectly. Please dont say positioning or help from teammates. Much appreciated.

The build im trying to create has to use Greatsword.

teonimesic.1403:

Disagree with OP. I created another post with my condi/hybrid build: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fgw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FvRAQJAWRnc0A12g92AG3A0bilgBLuIuEjiUXhvQvKKBEAKXA-TJhBwAAuEAU3fIzTAocZAA, and quite frankly I feel like Reaper is an awesome upgrade… Staff does lots of pressure at 1200 range now, and Reaper is amazing in close group fights…

Reaper definitely is an upgrade to necro but that isnt saying much considering Necro was the worst of the base professions before June 23rd.

Interesting build though, seems extremely risky. Low HP (for necro) light armour, and long heal CD. No ferocity so gravedigger is probably hitting 3ks instead of 7. I will agree with you that a well placed wall is useful but does the build have immediate damage to capitalize on it, because in my experience that is the most important thing for squishy builds. How is the sustain like from Parasitic contagion though? so does it compensate for the low armour at all? is there a significant difference if you dont use it.

It is true no build can directly counter everything, but there are many builds that can indirectly counter what they cant counter directly. Like heavy evading on a class that cant handle condis, indirectly counters condis. Unfortunately necro doesnt have the liberty of always being able to be in a good position to avoid a lot of the killer attacks. Just to run reaper and its shenanigans i had to drop Well of darkness, so what am i going to do against rampage or thief ganks?

Personally i hate staff, if i can avoid it i would. I tried the double energy, they are useful, especially for mesmer burst. It is likely what ever build I find miraculously works will use them and possibly Rune of the Daredevil

I think shroud is a bad class mechanic and should be completely reworked. But, if that’s not possible, I think adding some chill to axe skill 3 and perhaps buffing it in some other form could go a long away to alleviating some of your gripes (which I share… ).

But yeah, shroud mechanic is kinda whack. I think getting rid of it and replacing it with several different class abilities and allowing the player to intelligently pick which to use would be a better design and more fun for the players.

I’m just making stuff up but maybe let the necro decide on whether to spend life force to (1) utility – aoe fear (2) dps – add conditions to attacks as well as a flat dps increase (3) defense – health bubble which if not fully depleted by damage in the next 5 seconds will result in the necro being healed for X % of the health bubble.

Gameplay revolving around staying in shroud for as long as possible is not a fun mechanic imo.

Ragion.2831:

Dead.5829:

I’m actually really curious why those who don’t like the class, and haven’t liked it for a long time, are still playing it? What is the draw?

As for Reaper, feels a little early to tell. I’d definitely like to see changes to axe, scepter, staff, and damage mods / active survival, but I don’t think anyone’s had enough time with the spec and matchups to determine it better or worse.

That is a GREAT question, see i really like this class, if i didnt i wouldnt bother with this topic at all. I like this class for two reasons; one i started with this class, learned the game on the class, got Dragon on this class, Alot of PvE on it too. So when i think about my time in gw2 its Necromancer that comes to mind.

The second reason is the class has a lot of depth to it, not sure how to explain it but using the class has a certain weight to it (and i dont mean its slowness which doesnt pay off at all)

Where it all goes wrong is that if there is something you need to overcome, you have nothing to do it with. With other classes, their defense actually negates everything. Revenant is the best example, without Mallyx its weak to condis but that doesnt matter because you can kite, block, evade so you can very quickly defend against that weakness. Necromancer is a different story, you have to first tank your weakness, really, its called a weakness for a reason if it could be tanked then it wouldnt be a weakness to begin with.

Ravezaar.4951:

Well thats your Opinion, and i dont share it but i guess ppl here have mastered the Reaper already.

I promise you, there is no Reaper alive that I or any experienced player can’t completely shutdown on a class like Thief or Revenant, Look at Holts fight with the Daredevil, Holts is a great player, but notice how much he struggles just to hit, the only thing that helped him was that the thieves made mistakes. Revenant is 10x worse, it can do 10k without you hitting at all.

Yes Hollts is great and he had 3 BWE’s to practice, 3 and thats it !!!! maybe give him and us some time before this conclusion.

Ravezaar.4951:

Yes Hollts is great and he had 3 BWE’s to practice, 3 and thats it !!!! maybe give him and us some time before this conclusion.

The same can be said about those daredevils.

Bhawb.7408:

Adaptive Armor immediately maxes out its anti-condition, takes only 3s of being hit to match CF, has a 67% higher toughness limit (which also synergizes with conversions better), and is impossible to fall off in a fight, whereas CF has to be actively maintained. The 3s ramp up is pretty much irrelevant, and is the only way in which its weaker.

Cherry on top: a stack lasts 10s on scrapper but only 8s on necro. So you have to have applied condi 10 times in the last 8 sec to keep all stacks: good luck achieving that when you have to survive and avoid tons of hard CCs.

Anubris.8591:

I think shroud is a bad class mechanic and should be completely reworked. But, if that’s not possible, I think adding some chill to axe skill 3 and perhaps buffing it in some other form could go a long away to alleviating some of your gripes (which I share… ).

But yeah, shroud mechanic is kinda whack. I think getting rid of it and replacing it with several different class abilities and allowing the player to intelligently pick which to use would be a better design and more fun for the players.

Yeah, shroud is holding us back since forever. It wasn’t a well throughout mechanic (it was our downstate to begin with, no wonder we are supposed to be in downstate).

Balancing that “extra health bar” must be a nightmare. We are either nigh impossible to kill or kissing the ground every time. I think it would be best for both devs and players to rework it.

I wish life force was just a resource (that could be used to leech/heal) and not passively used to soak damage as well.

Ragion.2831:

Ravezaar.4951:

Yes Hollts is great and he had 3 BWE’s to practice, 3 and thats it !!!! maybe give him and us some time before this conclusion.

The same can be said about those daredevils.

yea ofc it can but Hollts still wins 50% if not more so I dont get why Reaper isnt viable

While I haven’t played the reaper at all, I do have experience with a variation on this build. I’ve tanked 2v1 and come out ahead most of the time.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBhOD7kGRobTsrGwtGg9GsMNYTjgLQFQaAUACAxjwS4LE-TpRBwAWuAAlLDw/IAs4BAA4gAEb/BA

Stopped reading after you wrote that Reaper is supposed to be a PvP upgrade. I do not remember having read a statement like that from Robert Gee or any other Arenanet employee.

Ara.4569:

Cherry on top: a stack lasts 10s on scrapper but only 8s on necro. So you have to have applied condi 10 times in the last 8 sec to keep all stacks: good luck achieving that when you have to survive and avoid tons of hard CCs.

Plus things like -condition duration in WvW making you not apply condis, Berserker stance/Diamond Skin making it impossible to keep up condis, other people using blocks/invulns/dodges/whatever, all on top of whatever you have to do to not die. So whereas AA stays up in 1v1, CF is extremely fast to fall off in non-large fights.

Seeing my name pop here a couple o’ times made me think I should leave my reaper feedback

To the OP: First of all, don’t expect to be able to handle outnumbered fights, especially in PvP where everyone is sorta-ish equal. You list all the bad things about being a necro but ignore the good. These include a nice selection of AoE damage, being durable most of the time (dependant on LF) and the amazing boon/condi control we have. I don’t think you can find these ‘perks’ on an acro teef

Everyclass has it’s weaknesses but if you dwell on them you will never enjoy any class!

Now for my own feedback if you don’t mind :p

GS: This is not a PvP weapon, which cannot be stated enough. It’s unreliable and clunky. It’s good and useable in PvE and maybe zergs but for PvP/roaming just no. Don’t use it.

Reaper shroud: For PvP it’s definitely better since it’s about node holding, where melee would usually be better. It has stab and strong cleave skills. Death’s charge and Infusing terror alone would make me pick it over DS.

Shouts: Haven’t tried it tbh except for the elite… I love my wurm/Spectral armor/WoS too much

Overall both power and condi reaper’s do well enough. Cele reaper is unfortunately not possible. I do like condi reaper better than power reaper. My fire and ice build (dhuum and chill) makes me orgasm after every match. I usually do 500k+ condi dmg per match but once got over 1 million (#)_(#)

To the title: No, that statement is incorrect.

Ravezaar.4951:

Ragion.2831:

Ravezaar.4951:

Yes Hollts is great and he had 3 BWE’s to practice, 3 and thats it !!!! maybe give him and us some time before this conclusion.

The same can be said about those daredevils.

yea ofc it can but Hollts still wins 50% if not more so I dont get why Reaper isnt viable

Before we get carried away with who does what, the point im making is Necromancer has lack of options. The class might have individual skills that will help in many different situations but you cant use all of them at the same time and there is no playstyle that will help you individually cover for what you are missing if you choose to run some skills over others. This cannot be said about other classes.

Example is If you choose to run more life force regen skills and dont have space for Corrosive poison cloud, you lose projectile blocking defence Necro doesnt have the Shroud uptime to both tank and counter all the potential projectile damage and control, doesnt have the movement ability to better position itself and use the environment and doesnt have the sustain outside of Shroud to comfortably avoid pressure. Devs did not help at all by increasing damage potential on other classes and sustain of other classes while increasing traited Shroud cooldown.

The reason why Thieves and Revenants in a perfect scenario shutdown reaper is, those two classes can easily get in and out of Reapers effective range. Stuns wont work with Revenants stability and blocks (lets not even factor in Glint heal) and thief will just evade and just evade again, port, return, stealth and take its time at wearing down the Reaper.

@Holl Yes every class has its weaknesses BUT Every class has an in built ability to over come them. What would you say acro thief’s weakness is, condis? ok but for condis to be a weakness they have to hit. So its simple, just dont get hit. So since im already an acro thief, that is my objective already so weakness resolved. Revenant is the same thing. Unfortunately those are the only other two classes i have played extensively.

I have used a guardian a bit and i believe its weakness is speed? but that can be easily sorted with its leaps, teleports and “Retreat” without opening the build up to more weaknesses. I can keep going. Engineers, I dont know much about them but i believe they are weak to condis? They have a lot of blocks, invulns and high damage which they can stack without opening themselves up to more weakness.

With Reaper, you take one thing to solve a problem, you have another, try to solve that, you have another, it really doesnt end. The good thing about Reaper is if the attacks hit then it can be damaging for the maybe one or two victims. The AoE defence you speak of is LF? but we all know LF only goes so far when outnumberd even a little. Mesmers, Thieves, Revenant (just to name a few) have what they need to sort out their weaknesses AND handle out numbered fights. Does that seem equal to you?

I don’t think the argument with the inbuilt ability to cover weakness really works mate. In the example you gave that thief is weak against condis, the counter really isn’t really not to get hit. Hell never getting hit is the counter to literally everything. A condi necro for example would range you with instant hit huge aoe staff marks and then hit scepter skills that really don’t have that much of a cast time. A thief is going to get hit no matter what at some point in time, the real counter is condi cleanse which thief generally lack, that is their weakness. Their ability to dodge is only a soft counter.

Reaper is the same thing, we lack range but we still have staff. Sure is not perfect but is just a soft coverup to our weak range instead of completely covering the weakness, just like how thief is able to dodge hits does not mean it is invincible to condis.

Warscythes.9307:

I don’t think the argument with the inbuilt ability to cover weakness really works mate. In the example you gave that thief is weak against condis, the counter really isn’t really not to get hit. Hell never getting hit is the counter to literally everything.

Lol, this statement contradicts itself. You just made my point.

Im not saying necro needs to suddenly be a speedster class. If they want to stick with making the class special with the Godzilla type routine, then sure by all means. But by doing that they should recognize that if there are going to be special rules in PKing with it then there should also be special rules for bringing it down.

the reaper isnt ment to be a upgrade, its ment to be a option… its not ment to be any more powerful then the next traitline in all honesty, its just ment to be a Different playstyle that the proffession didnt have previously.

i havnt struggled too badly with the reaper, there has been times where the slowness really has brought me down though, but you know it is alot of fun

I played reaper Lat night in PvP after the BB nerf, I’ll tell you now, I rarely PvP, it’s so confusing in this game and hard to keep up with WTF is going on, what attacks to dodge, who’s aiming for you so….factor that into what I’m about to say.

We’ve always needed heals in Shroud, but now after the Blighter’s boon nerf, we need them more than ever on Reaper. We need to have the ability to refill our health bar while using shroud, not just from the paltry heals from blood magic, but from our allies as well. And some people might say ,“well we saw what happened when they did that with the old BB.” That was because this game has so much boo spam, plus stackable might, we could easily be healed 2-3k in just a couple of seconds, and then keep on going as the boons kept flowing. If they allowed just NORMAL healing through Shroud, I don’t think it’d be as bad.

Ragion.2831:

Warscythes.9307:

I don’t think the argument with the inbuilt ability to cover weakness really works mate. In the example you gave that thief is weak against condis, the counter really isn’t really not to get hit. Hell never getting hit is the counter to literally everything.

Lol, this statement contradicts itself. You just made my point.

Im not saying necro needs to suddenly be a speedster class. If they want to stick with making the class special with the Godzilla type routine, then sure by all means. But by doing that they should recognize that if there are going to be special rules in PKing with it then there should also be special rules for bringing it down.

What? That makes no sense, how does it contradict? Saying not getting hit is a counter to condis is like saying the way to kill a boss is by damaging it. That’s not how it works. The real counter to condi is condi cleanse, not avoiding the hit. The fact you think that is the case is pretty ridiculous in the first place.

I also have no idea what the cabbage you are trying to say with your special rules in PKing and special rules for breaking it down.

This is the latest GS build ive been testing in PvP. It definitely has been holding up better than the other 20 odd attempts but it still has the annoying issue of people who make it a point to stay out of the effective range with stealth, ports and what not. Also this 3 year old thing with necros not having access to their Shroud at the start of the match. Really? in 2015? after all the class upgrades? We really dont need any more vulnerabilities as it is.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAnYRnMbCt2glbCebC0biljBTKo1ByAx3wfYRMqnttCAA-TJxFABfXGogDBAAnBADeAAAA

The Rune is Superior Rune of surging (Gain Shock aura after using an elite skill)

@Warscythes you basically said evades arent a counter but they counter everything.

Ragion.2831:

This is the latest GS build ive been testing in PvP. It definitely has been holding up better than the other 20 odd attempts but it still has the annoying issue of people who make it a point to stay out of the effective range with stealth, ports and what not. Also this 3 year old thing with necros not having access to their Death shroud at the start of the match. Really? in 2015? after all the class upgrades? We really dont need any more vulnerabilities as it is.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAnYRnMbCt2glbCebC0biljBTKo1ByAx3wfYRMqnttCAA-TJxFABfXGogDBAAnBADeAAAA

The Rune is Superior Rune of surging (Gain Shock aura after using an elite skill)

@Warscythes you basically said evades arent a counter but they counter everything.

Because it is a general counter, just like the phrase how to deal with something in PvP? Just CC it, well guess what, CC deals with literally everything under the planet. You will always win if the other guy literally cannot control their character. Your argument to thief’s counter to condi is about as ridiculous as saying just be invincible because that’s what evade gives you, invincibility frames. You cannot achieve that.

Warscythes.9307:

Ragion.2831:

This is the latest GS build ive been testing in PvP. It definitely has been holding up better than the other 20 odd attempts but it still has the annoying issue of people who make it a point to stay out of the effective range with stealth, ports and what not. Also this 3 year old thing with necros not having access to their Death shroud at the start of the match. Really? in 2015? after all the class upgrades? We really dont need any more vulnerabilities as it is.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAnYRnMbCt2glbCebC0biljBTKo1ByAx3wfYRMqnttCAA-TJxFABfXGogDBAAnBADeAAAA

The Rune is Superior Rune of surging (Gain Shock aura after using an elite skill)

@Warscythes you basically said evades arent a counter but they counter everything.

Because it is a general counter, just like the phrase how to deal with something in PvP? Just CC it, well guess what, CC deals with literally everything under the planet. You will always win if the other guy literally cannot control their character. Your argument to thief’s counter to condi is about as ridiculous as saying just be invincible because that’s what evade gives you, invincibility frames. You cannot achieve that.

Look if you say im wrong no problem but please explain why instead of using contradictory statements. Currently on my Daredevil I run a 5 skill category build 3 of them stun breaks. That is important because i also run Improvisation combined with Sleight of hand and swindlers equilibrium and ofcourse the evades from Daredevil. It is extremely rare for me to get pinned down if im paying attention.

If by some miracle an executioners scyth hits. I have 3 options to get out of it. Even if a mesmer shows up with power block, odds are i will get out of it, even if a warrior with Rampage shows up, again odds are i will still be able to retreat and pressure at least one of them, because after all the stun breaks i still have lots of evades and endurance regen to avoid any more CC attempts. Ofcourse this is all theoretical, the point is I have options.

Ragion.2831:

Warscythes.9307:

Ragion.2831:

This is the latest GS build ive been testing in PvP. It definitely has been holding up better than the other 20 odd attempts but it still has the annoying issue of people who make it a point to stay out of the effective range with stealth, ports and what not. Also this 3 year old thing with necros not having access to their Death shroud at the start of the match. Really? in 2015? after all the class upgrades? We really dont need any more vulnerabilities as it is.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAnYRnMbCt2glbCebC0biljBTKo1ByAx3wfYRMqnttCAA-TJxFABfXGogDBAAnBADeAAAA

The Rune is Superior Rune of surging (Gain Shock aura after using an elite skill)

@Warscythes you basically said evades arent a counter but they counter everything.

Because it is a general counter, just like the phrase how to deal with something in PvP? Just CC it, well guess what, CC deals with literally everything under the planet. You will always win if the other guy literally cannot control their character. Your argument to thief’s counter to condi is about as ridiculous as saying just be invincible because that’s what evade gives you, invincibility frames. You cannot achieve that.

Look if you say im wrong no problem but please explain why instead of using contradictory statements. Currently on my Daredevil I run a 5 skill category build 3 of them stun breaks. That is important because i also run Improvisation combined with Sleight of hand and swindlers equilibrium and ofcourse the evades from Daredevil. It is extremely rare for me to get pinned down if im paying attention.

If by some miracle an executioners scyth hits. I have 3 options to get out of it. Even if a mesmer shows up with power block, odds are i will get out of it, even if a warrior with Rampage shows up, again odds are i will still be able to retreat and pressure at least one of them, because after all the stun breaks i still have lots of evades and endurance regen to avoid any more CC attempts. Ofcourse this is all theoretical, the point is I have options.

Mate, I think you need to understand what I am trying to say.

Yes evade is a counter, but it is not THE counter. You literally cannot dodge everything, otherwise daredevil is bloody broken. As you can see from the forum right now, I doubt that is the case.

Yes you can dodge somethings, but are you really going to tell me you are going to dodge every auto too? A condi reaper is just going to stand there and draw these huge instant activate marks on the group or hit scepter 1, how do you dodge that? You cannot because you do not have infinite dodges, that is the weakness for thieves and the fact you believe evade is the counter for a long standing weakness for thieves in general is frustrating.

And that’s it, just like thieves have weaknesses, so do Reapers. Yes our range sucks but have staffs, yes thieves are weak against condis but that’s why they are really mobile and can get out of combat and recuperate or just run away if they want to. But ultimately they are not complete coverups to their own weaknesses. Necro staff sucks in damage in general and thieves right now are played mostly as +1 and a lot of it is due to their weaknesses that cannot be completely covered. Do you understand now?

Yes I cant dodge everything but thats why I run D/P and S/D. I also tend to use the environment. Necromancer is always at a disadvantage against this. The only prayer is if I get too greedy or necro makes a good number of successful hail mary plays. Basically guesses when im porting back in range with S/D instead of D/P if i used Infiltrators return and starts a high damage skill. Even then that doesnt guarantee an upper hand.

‘m trying to find the good in reaper since the Blighter’s Boon nerf, but its few and far between. The best thing I can find in it is chill spam crit substitution for tankier amulets that don’t have precesion but do have ferocity.

Op the reaper is not an upgrade or at least not intentionally. It is good that we got nerf to the ground now so Robert can now reconsider his decision and not have to rely on what if.

nearlight.3064:

‘m trying to find the good in reaper since the Blighter’s Boon nerf, but its few and far between. The best thing I can find in it is chill spam crit substitution for tankier amulets that don’t have precesion but do have ferocity.

I guess the dream is dead. It was nice while it lasted.