Guild Wars 2

I would like to complain about design of Reaper. Not because it’s too weak or too strong, but because it feels like just upgrade of core Necromancer, while leaving core profession with all issues it had before HoT release.

We’re happy as Necromancers that Reaper give us new tools and that we’re more viable than before, but we’re heavily forced to pick Reaper trait line to stay competitve for any build, while players like me who are big fans of old Death’s Shroud would prefer to stick wild good old Necromancer.

And before you say “Buy HoT!”, I’ve already bought it, but I dislike to being forced to play something new, while I more enjoyed old… but lets talk about certain issues:

Reaper’s Shroud vs Death’s Shroud
-> As we know Necromancers always got issues with engaging/disengaging Death’s Charge (RS #2) is solution to this core issue. However “core” Necromancers still got issue since Dark Path doesn’t offer any kind of engage/disengage tool, which could be fixed e.g. by turning it into teleport like Lightning Flash.
-> Infusing Terror (RS #3) – Seems to cover lack of stability of Necromancers, while “core” Necromancers still have this issue. Soul Reaping GM trait (Foot in the Grave) is outdated and even as GM trait can’t help Necromancer avoiding CC chains, because it grants only 1 stack of stability.

Reaper traits vs “core” traits
-> I also don’t like Deathly Chill being so superior to Terror (requires buff to be viable), while Terror got left behind as completly outdated.
-> Same issue with Blighter’s Boon which seems to be newer and stronger version of Unholy Sanctuary (requires buff to be viable).
-> Dhumfire is pretty good trait for Reaper (alot faster #1 of RS than DS), while it’s completly horrible with core Necro, maybe it should get better scalling (read: buff) in classic Death’s Shroud?

Thanks for reading my QQ.

I totally agree with what you’re saying, though I prefer reaper shroud to death shroud simply because all of the skills feel impactful on any build. Condi necro couldn’t use the DS autoattack very well at all and the other skills offered only a little bit of pressure, but all of the RS skills are useful on both condi and power builds alike.

“old necro " is based on RANGED gameplay . Do u expect to stay safe on range to do tones of damage with DS 1 and have stability? Also "old necro " has GREAT SUSTAIN , this answers why u dont have engage d-engage skills . You are supposed to SUSTAIN . Reaper from the other side is melle oriented . So ofc it needs stability and some oh kitten buttons . And it does well with that . There is completely dif gameplay between "old necro " and reaper

I don’t think death shroud being worse at mobility and tankiness(dark path+lack of stability) compared to reaper shroud is an issue because it is ranged. Reaper shroud should be better at being focused/cc’d and more mobile.

I think core necro has a few issues but the main one right now is that as nearlight said, death shroud is pretty useless for condi builds. I would like some bleed/poison/torment whatever condi on shroud 4 and a faster projectile speed on shroud 2. Maybe lower the cast speed but also lower the damage of life blast to keep consistent dps but dhuumfire can be used a bit more effectively. Keep in mind though that life blast actually does more dps than Reaper scythe right now if you are within 600 range so I am not sure on it.

That’s about it. Rest of the traits like issues with dhuumfire is fine I believe, others such as foot in the grave is just weak in general with or without the reaper comparison. That should be another topic completely as we need to look at the class as a whole.

Even base necro has enough disengage if u equip the proper utilities, ie. spectral walk and flesh wurm. Especially flesh wurm is really awesome to escape dire situations pretty much instantly if u placed ur flesh wurm wisely within the 1200 range.

Biggest problem in PvP for Necros/Reapers: 0% starting life force

Vydahr.4285:

Biggest problem in PvP for Necros/Reapers: 0% starting life force

Ehh I wouldn’t really mind starting with 25% life force or something similar but I think most of us got used to it at this point that it is a minor issue compared to everything else.

Who doesn’t start the match and start finding boxes to hit anyway these days.

Warscythes.9307:

Vydahr.4285:

Biggest problem in PvP for Necros/Reapers: 0% starting life force

Ehh I wouldn’t really mind starting with 25% life force or something similar but I think most of us got used to it at this point that it is a minor issue compared to everything else.

Who doesn’t start the match and start finding boxes to hit anyway these days.

it’s really the principle of the thing. I mean, Necromancers are alive, right? They must have their own life force

Balerios.3679:

“old necro " is based on RANGED gameplay.

Majority of “Reapers” use RS only for stability (#3) and to disengage (#2) while stil focus on RANGED gameplay. I would also like to note that other “RANGED” professions got proper tools to disengage from combat.

Balerios.3679:

Do u expect to stay safe on range to do tones of damage with DS 1 and have stability?

First, Life Blast doesn’t do “tones of damage” compared to other Power specs damage output, you should also mind that Life Blast has horrible long cast which can be easily interrupted, dodged or w/e.

Second, I don’t except to have free stability, I except GM traits to be useful.

Balerios.3679:

Also "old necro " has GREAT SUSTAIN , this answers why u dont have engage d-engage skills . You are supposed to SUSTAIN .

Where does that “GREAT SUSTAIN” comes from? PvE?
Celestial D/D Ele had “GREAT SUSTAIN”, “old necro” doesn’t have any sutain in PvP, unless you fight complete noobs who can’t just focus and CC lock you.

Balerios.3679:

Reaper from the other side is melle oriented . So ofc it needs stability and some oh kitten buttons . And it does well with that . There is completely dif gameplay between "old necro " and reaper

Imho you’re wrong. I see people using RS more as disengage tool and stability source in PvP as Condi Reapers. Also, barely see anyone playing Power, won’t even say a word about GS.

Warscythes.9307:

I don’t think death shroud being worse at mobility and tankiness(dark path+lack of stability) compared to reaper shroud is an issue because it is ranged. Reaper shroud should be better at being focused/cc’d and more mobile.

I think core necro has a few issues but the main one right now is that as nearlight said, death shroud is pretty useless for condi builds. I would like some bleed/poison/torment whatever condi on shroud 4 and a faster projectile speed on shroud 2. Maybe lower the cast speed but also lower the damage of life blast to keep consistent dps but dhuumfire can be used a bit more effectively. Keep in mind though that life blast actually does more dps than Reaper scythe right now if you are within 600 range so I am not sure on it.

That’s about it. Rest of the traits like issues with dhuumfire is fine I believe, others such as foot in the grave is just weak in general with or without the reaper comparison. That should be another topic completely as we need to look at the class as a whole.

Imho lack of stability and proper disengage tool is what makes core Necro so bad whenever he gets focused by more than more person. It’s main profession weakness that got eliminated by Reaper trait line.

However you’re pretty right about lack of proper sources of condi damage or too long cast for Life Blast for classic DS. Thats another lacking area which could get some attention before start of ranked season.

Spicy.2481:

Even base necro has enough disengage if u equip the proper utilities, ie. spectral walk and flesh wurm. Especially flesh wurm is really awesome to escape dire situations pretty much instantly if u placed ur flesh wurm wisely within the 1200 range.

Being forced to pick horrible version of Lightning Flash is main reason why we rarely seen Necromancers played in competitive matches in the past. I wouldn’t call Flesh Wurm and/or Spectral Walk awesome in any scenario, we just need put them on our skill bars to have any chances to reset combat in game where every other class has Leaps, Teleports or other mobility skills.

Vydahr.4285:

Biggest problem in PvP for Necros/Reapers: 0% starting life force

Not really. Its an issue for sure, but we’ve been getting significantly better life force gain that doesn’t rely too much on gaining it via slower skills/AAs.

Well, I said it long ago – current Specializations are for Reaper, not Necromancer.

core necro should definitely get looked at to get some of the buffs reaper got. at the very least putting some form of stab ANYWHERE on old DS would do amazing things for it’s viability compared to reaper.

the stability problem was 99% of my necro woes and why I dropped necro so often. the movement of #2 is just icing as reaper. it still feels weird being the most reliable safe-stomping class in most engagements, where pre-hot I had to pop my elite for 1 stomp every 3 minutes

Why do I keep seeing people post stuff like no one’s using power reaper…. I know there are some people in this forum who just constantly push for condi, but it’s not really better for anything except 1v1s. And for those saying every reaper they fight is condi? Yeah people used to qq at me when I was running a berserker build because they thought I was condi lol…. from what I’ve seen the best Reapers I’ve run into have been mostly power, only ran into one good condi one so far but I really didn’t have a chance against him anyway because he is double range and I’m full melee.

NeXeD.3042:

Why do I keep seeing people post stuff like no one’s using power reaper…. I know there are some people in this forum who just constantly push for condi, but it’s not really better for anything except 1v1s. And for those saying every reaper they fight is condi? Yeah people used to qq at me when I was running a berserker build because they thought I was condi lol…. from what I’ve seen the best Reapers I’ve run into have been mostly power, only ran into one good condi one so far but I really didn’t have a chance against him anyway because he is double range and I’m full melee.

Let me guess… probably because both best Necros (Leeto on EU and Nos on NA) are playing Condi Chillomancer and people will rather follow their builds than some imaginary builds?;)

Morwath.9817:

Balerios.3679:

“old necro " is based on RANGED gameplay.

Majority of “Reapers” use RS only for stability (#3) and to disengage (#2) while stil focus on RANGED gameplay. I would also like to note that other “RANGED” professions got proper tools to disengage from combat.

Balerios.3679:

Do u expect to stay safe on range to do tones of damage with DS 1 and have stability?

First, Life Blast doesn’t do “tones of damage” compared to other Power specs damage output, you should also mind that Life Blast has horrible long cast which can be easily interrupted, dodged or w/e.

Second, I don’t except to have free stability, I except GM traits to be useful.

Balerios.3679:

Also "old necro " has GREAT SUSTAIN , this answers why u dont have engage d-engage skills . You are supposed to SUSTAIN .

Where does that “GREAT SUSTAIN” comes from? PvE?
Celestial D/D Ele had “GREAT SUSTAIN”, “old necro” doesn’t have any sutain in PvP, unless you fight complete noobs who can’t just focus and CC lock you.

Balerios.3679:

Reaper from the other side is melle oriented . So ofc it needs stability and some oh kitten buttons . And it does well with that . There is completely dif gameplay between "old necro " and reaper

Imho you’re wrong. I see people using RS more as disengage tool and stability source in PvP as Condi Reapers. Also, barely see anyone playing Power, won’t even say a word about GS.

Warscythes.9307:

I don’t think death shroud being worse at mobility and tankiness(dark path+lack of stability) compared to reaper shroud is an issue because it is ranged. Reaper shroud should be better at being focused/cc’d and more mobile.

I think core necro has a few issues but the main one right now is that as nearlight said, death shroud is pretty useless for condi builds. I would like some bleed/poison/torment whatever condi on shroud 4 and a faster projectile speed on shroud 2. Maybe lower the cast speed but also lower the damage of life blast to keep consistent dps but dhuumfire can be used a bit more effectively. Keep in mind though that life blast actually does more dps than Reaper scythe right now if you are within 600 range so I am not sure on it.

That’s about it. Rest of the traits like issues with dhuumfire is fine I believe, others such as foot in the grave is just weak in general with or without the reaper comparison. That should be another topic completely as we need to look at the class as a whole.

Imho lack of stability and proper disengage tool is what makes core Necro so bad whenever he gets focused by more than more person. It’s main profession weakness that got eliminated by Reaper trait line.

However you’re pretty right about lack of proper sources of condi damage or too long cast for Life Blast for classic DS. Thats another lacking area which could get some attention before start of ranked season.

Spicy.2481:

Even base necro has enough disengage if u equip the proper utilities, ie. spectral walk and flesh wurm. Especially flesh wurm is really awesome to escape dire situations pretty much instantly if u placed ur flesh wurm wisely within the 1200 range.

Being forced to pick horrible version of Lightning Flash is main reason why we rarely seen Necromancers played in competitive matches in the past. I wouldn’t call Flesh Wurm and/or Spectral Walk awesome in any scenario, we just need put them on our skill bars to have any chances to reset combat in game where every other class has Leaps, Teleports or other mobility skills.

Well from my experience base necro has great sustain . I can stay more time alive than with Reaper . ( Blood magic , helps a lot ) . how many ppl have u encountered that cc lock u ? Cause i hardly see anyone . i have like 1k + matches with necro ( not so much . but its something ) . Because most ppl use RS to disengage ( i LOLED hard on this ) and stability that doesnt mean its the way . I dont do what most ppl do . If i get with RS to a crowd and they make a mistake not to focus me or run away . they are all dead . Do we play the same game? RS is melee oriented and ur supposed to be close to your enemies . RS 2 is a GAP CLOSER not an escape button LOL . And yes DS 1 does tones of dmg thats why is slow . i was hitting 9k crits just with a simple auto attack . I dont get what tones of dmg is for you? And wtf is that new trend with condi necro ? yes its cool it has some nice unavoidable dmg . But i guess most ppl dont know how to play and they want to just add bleeds and poisons . To play a power build u have to know well the class. If its the logic then all reroll to DH and condi guardian and kill ppl in 4 seconds . Thats not fun for me . I see myself playing power necro and its GREAT . And yes i belong to the minority that like GS to pvp , and i can actually land the skills . I guess im exceptional . Noone told u to get read off your scepters and your daggers . But we have also the right to play with GS and have fun .

Ending this i have to agree in 2 things , yeah GM traits are horrible . and yes GS needs improvement for sure its 5 and some lil lil speed to 3rd chain of 1 would be great . But its still is a viable weapon for pvp . At least i can do dmg ( with power necro i got plenty of whispers calling me broken , OP , cheater . cause 10k gravedigger hurts .. I got 0 whispers with condi necro )

Balerios.3679:

Well from my experience base necro has great sustain . I can stay more time alive than with Reaper . ( Blood magic , helps a lot )

I really don’t know what you’re talking about. Soul Reaping gives much better survi than Blood Magic, even weakness and free condi transfer on crit proc coming from Curses basicaly has more value than those small siphoning numbers. I dare to say that Blood and Death are completly underpowered to SReaping/Spite/Curses and Reaper now.

Balerios.3679:

how many ppl have u encountered that cc lock u ? Cause i hardly see anyone.

Basicaly anyone who has CCs and chain those – Engis are prime example of chained CCs with Slick Shoes when you’re “marked” target. Its always Flesh Wurm or die as non-Reaper.

Balerios.3679:

Because most ppl use RS to disengage ( i LOLED hard on this ) and stability that doesnt mean its the way . I dont do what most ppl do . If i get with RS to a crowd and they make a mistake not to focus me or run away . they are all dead . Do we play the same game?RS is melee oriented and ur supposed to be close to your enemies . RS 2 is a GAP CLOSER not an escape button LOL

I doubt it.

Balerios.3679:

And yes DS 1 does tones of dmg thats why is slow . i was hitting 9k crits just with a simple auto attack . I dont get what tones of dmg is for you?

If you go full damage glass build (Zerker) and you somehow stack some might, get all the procs on and your target is other Zerker with low hp (<50%), then yeah, you can hit hard. Otherwise Life Blast doesn’t crit as hard, even with 25 stacked Might as e.g. Cele.

Balerios.3679:

And wtf is that new trend with condi necro ? yes its cool it has some nice unavoidable dmg

First, it’s not new trend. Chillmancers is upgrade to Terrormancer, which was meta build pre trait line rebuild. Second, this damage isn’t unavoidable, your attacks have to hit to apply delayed damage instead of instant damage and it can be cleansed.

Balerios.3679:

I see myself playing power necro and its GREAT .

Once Ranked season will start in next month, please play power necro and share with us your GREAT results with it ;-)

Balerios.3679:

At least i can do dmg ( with power necro i got plenty of whispers calling me broken , OP, cheater . cause 10k gravedigger hurts .. I got 0 whispers with condi necro )

Then stop playing Hotjoin with F2P newbies who got no clues about game and complain about average stuff and call it broken.

Morwath.9817:

Balerios.3679:

Well from my experience base necro has great sustain . I can stay more time alive than with Reaper . ( Blood magic , helps a lot )

I really don’t know what you’re talking about. Soul Reaping gives much better survi than Blood Magic, even weakness and free condi transfer on crit proc coming from Curses basicaly has more value than those small siphoning numbers. I dare to say that Blood and Death are completly underpowered to SReaping/Spite/Curses and Reaper now.

Balerios.3679:

how many ppl have u encountered that cc lock u ? Cause i hardly see anyone.

Basicaly anyone who has CCs and chain those – Engis are prime example of chained CCs with Slick Shoes when you’re “marked” target. Its always Flesh Wurm or die as non-Reaper.

Balerios.3679:

Because most ppl use RS to disengage ( i LOLED hard on this ) and stability that doesnt mean its the way . I dont do what most ppl do . If i get with RS to a crowd and they make a mistake not to focus me or run away . they are all dead . Do we play the same game?RS is melee oriented and ur supposed to be close to your enemies . RS 2 is a GAP CLOSER not an escape button LOL

I doubt it.

Balerios.3679:

And yes DS 1 does tones of dmg thats why is slow . i was hitting 9k crits just with a simple auto attack . I dont get what tones of dmg is for you?

If you go full damage glass build (Zerker) and you somehow stack some might, get all the procs on and your target is other Zerker with low hp (<50%), then yeah, you can hit hard. Otherwise Life Blast doesn’t crit as hard, even with 25 stacked Might as e.g. Cele.

Balerios.3679:

And wtf is that new trend with condi necro ? yes its cool it has some nice unavoidable dmg

First, it’s not new trend. Chillmancers is upgrade to Terrormancer, which was meta build pre trait line rebuild. Second, this damage isn’t unavoidable, your attacks have to hit to apply delayed damage instead of instant damage and it can be cleansed.

Balerios.3679:

I see myself playing power necro and its GREAT .

Once Ranked season will start in next month, please play power necro and share with us your GREAT results with it ;-)

Balerios.3679:

At least i can do dmg ( with power necro i got plenty of whispers calling me broken , OP, cheater . cause 10k gravedigger hurts .. I got 0 whispers with condi necro )

Then stop playing Hotjoin with F2P newbies who got no clues about game and complain about average stuff and call it broken.

I was talking about Reaper and Base necro . While playing reaper , u obviously have reaper and soul reaping and spite ( for power necro ), this is the only viable way. But in base necro in the place of Reaper u got Blood magic , which obviously provide more sustain through heals wells and protections….. You doubt it but i dont . Reaper is a fine melee dps and ppl that use it for espace and stability are braindead i dare to say . Condi dmg is kind of unavoidable in terms of that the only way to get it off is through condi cleanse , were most classes have 1? 2? . In direct damage u have blocks evades toughness!!!Once a condi hits u ,if cleanse is on cooldown u get dmg until it expires . But with direct dmg is dif ,its either u get the hit or not . and not to mention toughness that helps to reduce direct dmg. I was playing ranked before and was doing well . now with reaper i will do even better , im sure. Im talking about my spvp experience here. so i dunno what are u talking about .

Balerios.3679:

I was talking about Reaper and Base necro . While playing reaper , u obviously have reaper and soul reaping and spite ( for power necro ), this is the only viable way. But in base necro in the place of Reaper u got Blood magic , which obviously provide more sustain through heals wells and protections….. You doubt it but i dont . Reaper is a fine melee dps and ppl that use it for espace and stability are braindead i dare to say . Condi dmg is kind of unavoidable in terms of that the only way to get it off is through condi cleanse , were most classes have 1? 2? . In direct damage u have blocks evades toughness!!!Once a condi hits u ,if cleanse is on cooldown u get dmg until it expires . But with direct dmg is dif ,its either u get the hit or not . and not to mention toughness that helps to reduce direct dmg. I was playing ranked before and was doing well . now with reaper i will do even better , im sure. Im talking about my spvp experience here. so i dunno what are u talking about .

I guess both Leeto and Nos have to be braindead noobs if they play Chillmancer ;-(

Anyway, condi is a as much avoidable as power is and you avoid it exacly the same way as you avoid power damage, the only thing is toughness doesn’t help. You can dodge/evade/block/interrupt skills that apply condi damage at it’s not applied to you, nothing to cleanse…

Morwath.9817:

Balerios.3679:

I was talking about Reaper and Base necro . While playing reaper , u obviously have reaper and soul reaping and spite ( for power necro ), this is the only viable way. But in base necro in the place of Reaper u got Blood magic , which obviously provide more sustain through heals wells and protections….. You doubt it but i dont . Reaper is a fine melee dps and ppl that use it for espace and stability are braindead i dare to say . Condi dmg is kind of unavoidable in terms of that the only way to get it off is through condi cleanse , were most classes have 1? 2? . In direct damage u have blocks evades toughness!!!Once a condi hits u ,if cleanse is on cooldown u get dmg until it expires . But with direct dmg is dif ,its either u get the hit or not . and not to mention toughness that helps to reduce direct dmg. I was playing ranked before and was doing well . now with reaper i will do even better , im sure. Im talking about my spvp experience here. so i dunno what are u talking about .

I guess both Leeto and Nos have to be braindead noobs if they play Chillmancer ;-(

Anyway, condi is a as much avoidable as power is and you avoid it exacly the same way as you avoid power damage, the only thing is toughness doesn’t help. You can dodge/evade/block/interrupt skills that apply condi damage at it’s not applied to you, nothing to cleanse…

You think toughness is "just the only thing " . Toughness is vital stat . Who is leeto and nos anyway? necromancer gods? they are just human players like u and me. Im sorry but i dont like my playstyle to be defined by someone else. Power build is viable and fun and rewarding . U should try it lol despite leeto and nos lol

I think the issue that the dev team is worried about is what happens when terror gets buffed and people take that and chill damage. Similarly, if death magic was way better necros would be super duper tanky, possibly too much so. I’d definitely like to see a lot of things get buffed because many of them are subpar, but you have to consider overall game balance.

Morwath.9817:

NeXeD.3042:

Why do I keep seeing people post stuff like no one’s using power reaper…. I know there are some people in this forum who just constantly push for condi, but it’s not really better for anything except 1v1s. And for those saying every reaper they fight is condi? Yeah people used to qq at me when I was running a berserker build because they thought I was condi lol…. from what I’ve seen the best Reapers I’ve run into have been mostly power, only ran into one good condi one so far but I really didn’t have a chance against him anyway because he is double range and I’m full melee.

Let me guess… probably because both best Necros (Leeto on EU and Nos on NA) are playing Condi Chillomancer and people will rather follow their builds than some imaginary builds?;)

Leeto best? Best at what? Best at raging on streams?

Morwath.9817:

Balerios.3679:

“old necro " is based on RANGED gameplay.

Majority of “Reapers” use RS only for stability (#3) and to disengage (#2) while stil focus on RANGED gameplay. I would also like to note that other “RANGED” professions got proper tools to disengage from combat.

Balerios.3679:

Do u expect to stay safe on range to do tones of damage with DS 1 and have stability?

First, Life Blast doesn’t do “tones of damage” compared to other Power specs damage output, you should also mind that Life Blast has horrible long cast which can be easily interrupted, dodged or w/e.

Second, I don’t except to have free stability, I except GM traits to be useful.

Balerios.3679:

Also "old necro " has GREAT SUSTAIN , this answers why u dont have engage d-engage skills . You are supposed to SUSTAIN .

Where does that “GREAT SUSTAIN” comes from? PvE?
Celestial D/D Ele had “GREAT SUSTAIN”, “old necro” doesn’t have any sutain in PvP, unless you fight complete noobs who can’t just focus and CC lock you.

Balerios.3679:

Reaper from the other side is melle oriented . So ofc it needs stability and some oh kitten buttons . And it does well with that . There is completely dif gameplay between "old necro " and reaper

Imho you’re wrong. I see people using RS more as disengage tool and stability source in PvP as Condi Reapers. Also, barely see anyone playing Power, won’t even say a word about GS.

Warscythes.9307:

I don’t think death shroud being worse at mobility and tankiness(dark path+lack of stability) compared to reaper shroud is an issue because it is ranged. Reaper shroud should be better at being focused/cc’d and more mobile.

I think core necro has a few issues but the main one right now is that as nearlight said, death shroud is pretty useless for condi builds. I would like some bleed/poison/torment whatever condi on shroud 4 and a faster projectile speed on shroud 2. Maybe lower the cast speed but also lower the damage of life blast to keep consistent dps but dhuumfire can be used a bit more effectively. Keep in mind though that life blast actually does more dps than Reaper scythe right now if you are within 600 range so I am not sure on it.

That’s about it. Rest of the traits like issues with dhuumfire is fine I believe, others such as foot in the grave is just weak in general with or without the reaper comparison. That should be another topic completely as we need to look at the class as a whole.

Imho lack of stability and proper disengage tool is what makes core Necro so bad whenever he gets focused by more than more person. It’s main profession weakness that got eliminated by Reaper trait line.

However you’re pretty right about lack of proper sources of condi damage or too long cast for Life Blast for classic DS. Thats another lacking area which could get some attention before start of ranked season.

Spicy.2481:

Even base necro has enough disengage if u equip the proper utilities, ie. spectral walk and flesh wurm. Especially flesh wurm is really awesome to escape dire situations pretty much instantly if u placed ur flesh wurm wisely within the 1200 range.

Being forced to pick horrible version of Lightning Flash is main reason why we rarely seen Necromancers played in competitive matches in the past. I wouldn’t call Flesh Wurm and/or Spectral Walk awesome in any scenario, we just need put them on our skill bars to have any chances to reset combat in game where every other class has Leaps, Teleports or other mobility skills.

I disagree with everything you said here.

1.Reapers dont use only stab and death charge.The majority use all espiecaly RS #5.

2.1 Lifeblast can kill a thief ….1!! it is that strong, there is another matter on how to use it, maybe you lacking that.

3.Foot in the grave is very good stab in pvp, if you get chain CC and you dont dodge it is your problem.It break stun so effectivly, it can lasted for two CC’s.

4.Core necro have lots of sustain cause he is ranged,two health pools, high base health and all sorts of CC’s. and because of the LF behaviour with spectral skills for instance.

5.I play about 10 games a day in pvp, seen Power reapers, and seen MM reapers(sort of), and seen condi reapers.Condi reapers dosnt use only engage/disenage.They use skills 4 that applies AoE poison and skill #5 for chill with deatlhy chill trait.So know the class before saying wrong stuff on forum.

The only thing your topic can make is nerfing the reaper so it will be more as the core one they will never buff the core one.

Sandrox.9524:

1.Reapers dont use only stab and death charge.The majority use all espiecaly RS #5.

I haven’t said that Condi Reapers doesn’t use any skill with exception of #2 and #3, but that #2 and #3 are superior upgrade as defensive abilities. What is more Chillmancer can get good dmg from #1 (Dhumfire) and #4, while #5 can be useful as additional CC, but thats other side of the coin why standard Death’s Shroud deserves buffing.

However proper gameplay for Condi Reaper is still Ranged, you will engage into melee only when it can be advantage for you (to e.g. eat some damage with life force > hp and exchange few blows), since Condi Reaper game plan is attrition.

Sandrox.9524:

2.1 Lifeblast can kill a thief ….1!! it is that strong, there is another matter on how to use it, maybe you lacking that.

No, it can’t… seriously, how you want to deal 17k dmg with single Life Blast?

Note : Zerker Thief has 11,645 HP, while Marauder has 17,245 HP.
I would also remind that Thieves doesn’t play with Zerker because of their low base HP.

Sandrox.9524:

3.Foot in the grave is very good stab in pvp, if you get chain CC and you dont dodge it is your problem.It break stun so effectivly, it can lasted for two CC’s.

It’s so good stab that it does nothing vs Slick Shoes. Imho its only good as Stun Break, but if you compare it to Druid Major Trait (Druidic Clarity) which gives Stun Break and full cleanse on Celestial Avatar, it’s just bad… as GM trait that has two pretty good traits to compete with.

Sandrox.9524:

4.Core necro have lots of sustain cause he is ranged,two health pools, high base health and all sorts of CC’s. and because of the LF behaviour with spectral skills for instance.

First, Necro isn’t as much ranged as people say – only Staff has 1200 Range, you can’t compete with e.g. Ranger or DH on Range, you’re forced to use 900 Range Axe, 600 Range Scepter or more or less melee Dagger (which can Siphon Life at 600 Range) to deal damage.

Second, Life Force is good when your team is winning. You start with no Life Force at beginning of the match, which makes “double HP” often a mere myth (in games where people just focus Necro 1st).

Thrid thingie, what kind of “all sorts of CCs”?
Typical build has two Fears and two Immobilizes (if running Dagger), unless you want to count cripple/chill also? We’re talking about classic Necro.

Sandrox.9524:

5.I play about 10 games a day in pvp, seen Power reapers, and seen MM reapers(sort of), and seen condi reapers.Condi reapers dosnt use only engage/disenage.They use skills 4 that applies AoE poison and skill #5 for chill with deatlhy chill trait.So know the class before saying wrong stuff on forum.

I think I pretty well know my most played profession in PvP.
Anyway I’ve responded to rest of this part above.

Sandrox.9524:

The only thing your topic can make is nerfing the reaper so it will be more as the core one they will never buff the core one.

I disagree. Necro need buffs here and there to be viable and to not require Reaper for each single build to stay competitive…

Morwath.9817:

Sandrox.9524:

1.Reapers dont use only stab and death charge.The majority use all espiecaly RS #5.

I haven’t said that Condi Reapers doesn’t use any skill with exception of #2 and #3, but that #2 and #3 are superior upgrade as defensive abilities. What is more Chillmancer can get good dmg from #1 (Dhumfire) and #4, while #5 can be useful as additional CC, but thats other side of the coin why standard Death’s Shroud deserves buffing.

However proper gameplay for Condi Reaper is still Ranged, you will engage into melee only when it can be advantage for you (to e.g. eat some damage with life force > hp and exchange few blows), since Condi Reaper game plan is attrition.

Sandrox.9524:

2.1 Lifeblast can kill a thief ….1!! it is that strong, there is another matter on how to use it, maybe you lacking that.

No, it can’t… seriously, how you want to deal 17k dmg with single Life Blast?

Note : Zerker Thief has 11,645 HP, while Marauder has 17,245 HP.
I would also remind that Thieves doesn’t play with Zerker because of their low base HP.

Sandrox.9524:

3.Foot in the grave is very good stab in pvp, if you get chain CC and you dont dodge it is your problem.It break stun so effectivly, it can lasted for two CC’s.

It’s so good stab that it does nothing vs Slick Shoes. Imho its only good as Stun Break, but if you compare it to Druid Major Trait (Druidic Clarity) which gives Stun Break and full cleanse on Celestial Avatar, it’s just bad… as GM trait that has two pretty good traits to compete with.

Sandrox.9524:

4.Core necro have lots of sustain cause he is ranged,two health pools, high base health and all sorts of CC’s. and because of the LF behaviour with spectral skills for instance.

First, Necro isn’t as much ranged as people say – only Staff has 1200 Range, you can’t compete with e.g. Ranger or DH on Range, you’re forced to use 900 Range Axe, 600 Range Scepter or more or less melee Dagger (which can Siphon Life at 600 Range) to deal damage.

Second, Life Force is good when your team is winning. You start with no Life Force at beginning of the match, which makes “double HP” often a mere myth (in games where people just focus Necro 1st).

Thrid thingie, what kind of “all sorts of CCs”?
Typical build has two Fears and two Immobilizes (if running Dagger), unless you want to count cripple/chill also? We’re talking about classic Necro.

Sandrox.9524:

5.I play about 10 games a day in pvp, seen Power reapers, and seen MM reapers(sort of), and seen condi reapers.Condi reapers dosnt use only engage/disenage.They use skills 4 that applies AoE poison and skill #5 for chill with deatlhy chill trait.So know the class before saying wrong stuff on forum.

I think I pretty well know my most played profession in PvP.
Anyway I’ve responded to rest of this part above.

Sandrox.9524:

The only thing your topic can make is nerfing the reaper so it will be more as the core one they will never buff the core one.

I disagree. Necro need buffs here and there to be viable and to not require Reaper for each single build to stay competitive…

Firstly,CC’s are also soft CC’s such as chill and cripple are melee attackers nightmare dagger/warhorn with immo and daze, two fears + another immo #5 shroud , most run fear on CC trait.

Yeah there are 11k thieves,but that doesnt matter wasnt talking about pure lifeblast dmg, I can down thief with one attack using spinal shiver trait auto proccess.

Necros considered range cause of wells,marks,death shroud,lich..ranger owns everything ranged cause he is RANGEr you cant possibly think necros needs to outrange the ranger? other proffesions like ele, are not as good in range as necro.

When you say condi necro, you mean core or reaper, cause reaper will engage melee and will spam dhuufire and chill from reapershroud.

Slick shoes very avoidable activate DS dodge away – done. Thieves and mesmers which on the same boat as Necros with stab dosnt complain.

I dont need my team to win to gain lf, im using the enviroment, not rushing, playing smart, when you got about 50% you can start be aggresive.Works every time.

Sandrox.9524:

Firstly,CC’s are also soft CC’s such as chill and cripple are melee attackers nightmare dagger/warhorn with immo and daze, two fears + another immo #5 shroud , most run fear on CC trait.

What? Seriously?
If most = nearly nobody, then I agree. Death Magic is our weakest trait line since traits revamp and rarely anyone picks it, and I haven’t seen Reaper’s Protection used by anyone except trolololo Minion Mancers.

Sandrox.9524:

Yeah there are 11k thieves,but that doesnt matter wasnt talking about pure lifeblast dmg, I can down thief with one attack using spinal shiver trait auto proccess.

In hotjoin?

Sandrox.9524:

Necros considered range cause of wells,marks,death shroud,lich..ranger owns everything ranged cause he is RANGEr you cant possibly think necros needs to outrange the ranger? other proffesions like ele, are not as good in range as necro.

You know why I mentioned Ranger? Because core Rangers are the most kittentiest professions among all in game…

Sandrox.9524:

When you say condi necro, you mean core or reaper, cause reaper will engage melee and will spam dhuufire and chill from reapershroud.

When I say condi necro I mean Chillmancer obviously, because core necro is unplayable as condi since trait revamp… and condi Reaper will rarely engage into melee, you should rather just go into RS when you’re engaged and you have enough LF to exchange blows without losing any HP, then when your LF vanishes disengage with #2, simple as that.

Sandrox.9524:

Slick shoes very avoidable activate DS dodge away – done. Thieves and mesmers which on the same boat as Necros with stab dosnt complain.

You know that Thieves and Mesmers are +1 professions? Also, they have other tools to escape from nearly any opression (no cast time teleports, stealth on demand and evades).

Sandrox.9524:

I dont need my team to win to gain lf, im using the enviroment, not rushing, playing smart, when you got about 50% you can start be aggresive.Works every time.

So… match starts… you go cap close or w/e. Roamers (e.g. Thief+Mes/Thief+Engi/Ele+Thief) come to decap… all you can do is: activate Plague or Flesh Wurm and try to disengage with those, or miserably die.

i like the reaper so far in pvp

my problem mainly is i start with zero life force which make me vulnerable for 30 sec till i bring it up.
so with every fight the enemy team try to lock me down fast. also my team do the same mostly.
so my tactic is to stay range so if the enemy push me i will get help from 1 ally while we can cap the point if the enemies leave it or my allies do the same and push to one enemy.
what i love about the reaper is the great cc chian you can do if the enemy dont have stability on them. as i take power build i dont have boon rip signet (which atm i think is useless as boons fly around like crazy so ripping one just brings 3 new ones)

also my dmg especialy from melee is very good so unless i an out numbered i can do fine

i have a unique build as i find cele with low dmg and maraduer too squishy stm with the power crip meta .

i also like the condi reaper but i think after playing it and see ppl in the esl play it abit its too low dmg as scepter is slow weapon and if you being target its hard to play offensive not like dagger or staff or even GS.

to sum it up my team still think wether the necro is viable atm or can be replaced by other class. we dont know yet but imo with good combo necro is good bruiser on a point where there is 3v3 etc…

nearlight.3064:

Morwath.9817:

NeXeD.3042:

Why do I keep seeing people post stuff like no one’s using power reaper…. I know there are some people in this forum who just constantly push for condi, but it’s not really better for anything except 1v1s. And for those saying every reaper they fight is condi? Yeah people used to qq at me when I was running a berserker build because they thought I was condi lol…. from what I’ve seen the best Reapers I’ve run into have been mostly power, only ran into one good condi one so far but I really didn’t have a chance against him anyway because he is double range and I’m full melee.

Let me guess… probably because both best Necros (Leeto on EU and Nos on NA) are playing Condi Chillomancer and people will rather follow their builds than some imaginary builds?;)

Leeto best? Best at what? Best at raging on streams?

wot ar u saying? Leeto>Nos m8

i kind of agree specializations made trait line choices pretty boring.

for power necro it’s like spite, soul reaping, reaper if you go dmg, you can try tankier with something instead of soul reaping but meh your damage and DS uptime will be horribly pathetic, just saying.

no idea about condinecros been playing 500-1000 games with power reaper now though.

i do miss my core dagger zerker but it isn’t viable anymore for anything it was nerfed many times over and over (ds/weakness etc so called “fixes”) so it cannot work really for anything else than seal clubbing.

reaper is okay as long as you remember you will be cc’ed to death many times over and thieves laugh at you most of the time

jalmari.3906:

i kind of agree specializations made trait line choices pretty boring.

for power necro it’s like spite, soul reaping, reaper if you go dmg, you can try tankier with something instead of soul reaping but meh your damage and DS uptime will be horribly pathetic, just saying.

no idea about condinecros been playing 500-1000 games with power reaper now though.

i do miss my core dagger zerker but it isn’t viable anymore for anything it was nerfed many times over and over (ds/weakness etc so called “fixes”) so it cannot work really for anything else than seal clubbing.

reaper is okay as long as you remember you will be cc’ed to death many times over and thieves laugh at you most of the time

See, I love fighting thieves as a Soldier Scrapper S/SR/R Reaper because my durability foils their damage spikes, and I hurt them… a lot. Also, I find there are few situations where I get cc’d to death. I’ve fought Rampage warriors toe to toe and just casually slashed at them while in shroud and kill them when Rampage runs out.

As for the first part of your post… Yeahhhh……. It does end up making things pretty dull for spec preference

Edit: Spoke too soon, looks like we get to see a necro in EU’s ESL finally.

I was fine and owning with good old Daggershroud necro as I am now on Reaper … sorry but if you are good you don’t have a problem as necro or Reaper….

Morwath.9817:

Sandrox.9524:

Firstly,CC’s are also soft CC’s such as chill and cripple are melee attackers nightmare dagger/warhorn with immo and daze, two fears + another immo #5 shroud , most run fear on CC trait.

What? Seriously?
If most = nearly nobody, then I agree. Death Magic is our weakest trait line since traits revamp and rarely anyone picks it, and I haven’t seen Reaper’s Protection used by anyone except trolololo Minion Mancers.

Sandrox.9524:

Yeah there are 11k thieves,but that doesnt matter wasnt talking about pure lifeblast dmg, I can down thief with one attack using spinal shiver trait auto proccess.

In hotjoin?

Sandrox.9524:

Necros considered range cause of wells,marks,death shroud,lich..ranger owns everything ranged cause he is RANGEr you cant possibly think necros needs to outrange the ranger? other proffesions like ele, are not as good in range as necro.

You know why I mentioned Ranger? Because core Rangers are the most kittentiest professions among all in game…

Sandrox.9524:

When you say condi necro, you mean core or reaper, cause reaper will engage melee and will spam dhuufire and chill from reapershroud.

When I say condi necro I mean Chillmancer obviously, because core necro is unplayable as condi since trait revamp… and condi Reaper will rarely engage into melee, you should rather just go into RS when you’re engaged and you have enough LF to exchange blows without losing any HP, then when your LF vanishes disengage with #2, simple as that.

Sandrox.9524:

Slick shoes very avoidable activate DS dodge away – done. Thieves and mesmers which on the same boat as Necros with stab dosnt complain.

You know that Thieves and Mesmers are +1 professions? Also, they have other tools to escape from nearly any opression (no cast time teleports, stealth on demand and evades).

Sandrox.9524:

I dont need my team to win to gain lf, im using the enviroment, not rushing, playing smart, when you got about 50% you can start be aggresive.Works every time.

So… match starts… you go cap close or w/e. Roamers (e.g. Thief+Mes/Thief+Engi/Ele+Thief) come to decap… all you can do is: activate Plague or Flesh Wurm and try to disengage with those, or miserably die.

I think you should re-evaluate how you play if you going cap close at start as necro….

As for other thing you said, you dont know that necros in fear of thieves speccing to death magic so they can have auto shield againt them.I know cause I play thief too.

Already seen legendary champions and champ shadow playing zerk daredevil and it works.(NOT ON HOTJOIN)

Condi reaper will not engage you melee if you have no brain and you trying to range him with melee class, but condi necro will melee you if you outrange him since his range attacks are short ranged in compare to others………

And core condi necros are pure beasts in spvp…..the huge sustain with toughness/vit stats make them hard oppontes.

Sandrox.9524:

And core condi necros are pure beasts in spvp…..the huge sustain with toughness/vit stats make them hard oppontes.

WvW =/= sPvP
Dire doesn’t exist in sPvP.

Blackari.2051:

I was fine and owning with good old Daggershroud necro as I am now on Reaper … sorry but if you are good you don’t have a problem as necro or Reaper….

Which tournaments have you “owned”, so you believe "core’ Necro is viable option to play? Because we’re not talking about me, but reasons why “core” Necro was left behind Reaper in competitive play.

Anyway, looking at signature I guess just regular Mesmer salt.