Guild Wars 2

I have dl and watched the stream and am thoroughly impressed with the GS skills and RS but the utilities being shouts with cast times is just odd and should be a lot quicker in my opinion does not need to be instant cast but 1s or more is a bit much should be all 3/4s at most.

Also that trait to reduce shouts cool-down on hit is not worth taking, the GS trait is good for the Life steal aspect but also hate the using Grave digger a 8sec cd skill to reduce other GS skills by 3% only are just as bad as the new Axe trait

Side Note: why shouts and not spirits?

AI problems…the shouts are a good idea they all need reduced cast times,some adjustments and CD reduction especially “Rise”, reaper is necro/warrior even banners I don’t want but still the bases are good.

Necro shouts are most effective vs 5 targets which can be achieved very easily on many scenarios(spvp, wvw etc..). While you have 5 targets you get from trait 35% CD reduction, that’s huge.
Look at ranger shouts, they have much underwhelming effects with high CD, the shout “guard” also have cast time.
You have one shout that does damage, rip boons and give 10 Vulnerability up to 5 targets in 600 radius AND unblockble attacks for 10 sec, This is a disappointment for you?

The shouts themselves are fine its the cast time that’s dissapointing

Astaral.8635:

The shouts themselves are fine its the cast time that’s dissapointing

I couldn’t agree more. I kinda like what they do now, but not much with those cast times (heal and elite should preserve cast times, the amount is another topic).

Am I the only Necro that thinks cast times are a good idea?

yes?

Anet have to get the Numbers on the shouts right to justify the cast time but this means we can justifiably ask for absurdly powerful skills to offset the cast times….yes please.

right now there are a few key abilities that I use that have cast times…..?
what are they, can you guess?

Dark pact and consume conditions….am i right?
maybe add focus 5 to that list…….scepter 3…?

now guess how often thoses abilities get interrupted or dodged in PvP……?
All the god kitten time!

why? because these are the only significant skills with cast timse so interrupts or endurance is held back for these special events!

now imagine game play where the a mistimed dodge or interrupt actually matters
where you might actually have to choose what to dodge rather then dodge the first thing that comes out, cause its a biggun?…now imagine biggun, after biggun, after buggun….which one to interuppt? better chose wisely!

I think the cast times are a bit too long for what they are. That said, When you look at “Rise!” hitting 5 targets the CD becomes 26 seconds from 40 (remember these can be pve mobs, minions, clones, ranger pets, turrets/drones). That puts the shout in contest with other Minion skills CD wise.

They need a slight decrease in CD or buffed a bit (I would even go as far as the shouts that self buff also buff nearby allies for 1/2 the effectiveness or something).

Cast times are absolutely necessary for at least some of the shouts. Counterplay is not only important for a healthy game, but by allowing a skill to have counterplay you can increase its strength.

Basically, the skills that have large effects warrant long cast times. CttB is completely warranted, though it needs to be buffed slightly. NCSY is plenty strong as it is. YSIM is short cast, YAAW is fine. Arise! is probably just inheriting cast time from minion summons, but that’s stupid minion’s shouldn’t take 1.5s to summon anyway, and Suffer is basically a defensive skill and should have a shorter cast time, if any.

But really, if you want strong offensive shouts, they will have cast times. Get used to the idea, because instant cast shouts would be so weak they’d be worthless.

Bhawb.7408:

Cast times are absolutely necessary for at least some of the shouts. Counterplay is not only important for a healthy game, but by allowing a skill to have counterplay you can increase its strength.

Basically, the skills that have large effects warrant long cast times. CttB is completely warranted, though it needs to be buffed slightly. NCSY is plenty strong as it is. YSIM is short cast, YAAW is fine. Arise! is probably just inheriting cast time from minion summons, but that’s stupid minion’s shouldn’t take 1.5s to summon anyway, and Suffer is basically a defensive skill and should have a shorter cast time, if any.

But really, if you want strong offensive shouts, they will have cast times. Get used to the idea, because instant cast shouts would be so weak they’d be worthless.

I agree but some of the casttimes are too long. I dont like a 3/4 second cast stunbreak even if it gives me stab.

I keep forgetting YAAW is a stun break. It should be instant, and I think Suffer deserves a stun break/instant cast or an increase to 2 condis per hit.

But yeah, not-instant stun breaks suck, especially on abilities with very little direct effect. For example YAAW is strong, however it has very little direct effect on cast, its counterplay is more tied into avoiding the Reaper after they have acquired that might, not on preventing them from getting it. Same with Arise! it has almost no direct effect, you should counterplay the minions themselves not their summon.

Bhawb.7408:

I keep forgetting YAAW is a stun break. It should be instant, and I think Suffer deserves a stun break/instant cast or an increase to 2 condis per hit.

But yeah, not-instant stun breaks suck, especially on abilities with very little direct effect. For example YAAW is strong, however it has very little direct effect on cast, its counterplay is more tied into avoiding the Reaper after they have acquired that might, not on preventing them from getting it. Same with Arise! it has almost no direct effect, you should counterplay the minions themselves not their summon.

The stun break effect is instant the shout is not, you can stability for the duration of the cast . Its actually a superior stun break, cus you cant be stun chained right after the stun breaks(happends alot with normal stun breakers)

You only get 1s of stability, and it is only 1 stack of stability, it is JUST enough to cover the cast animation. It is not strictly better, because if you are interrupted you just lost an entire skill CD just to get a stun break.

@Bhawb.7408 “If you are interrupted you just lost an entire skill CD just to get a stun break.”
True, havn’t thought about that….

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

Astaral.8635:

The shouts themselves are fine its the cast time that’s dissapointing

I couldn’t agree more. I kinda like what they do now, but not much with those cast times (heal and elite should preserve cast times, the amount is another topic).

looks like similiar to guard shouts times, what time would be good and why?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_guardian_skills
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_warrior_skills
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_ranger_skills

If you take a look at this you can see that shouts inherently do not have a cast time except for the rangers guard shout but that’s because it give stealth and is only 1s any shout that takes longer than 1s to cast should not be consider a shout. I mean it doesn’t make sense that saying a a few words should take 1.5s to 2s and the elite has a long cd to warrant a 2s cast. If we are class based on debilitating our enemy and causing dmg why are we soo slow at doing it in comparison to other classes or we are slow why don’t we have the dmg numbers to show for it.

PS: I play every class all 80 lvl just play the necro the most cause it is my favorite class and made him viable for all situations just a pain when I join a group and people ask me to bring my guard, war, ele, etc.

If Anet called categorized these Shouts as something else or as a new category, there would probably less complaints lol

Wondrouswall.7169:

If Anet called categorized these Shouts as something else or as a new category, there would probably less complaints lol

and having such bad cast times? now way!

I’m happy with them and the Elie shout has a HUGE radius. 1200?!?! Its the easiest to hit 5 people with and does huge damage. Running into a fight you can precast it and follow it up with loads of things.

Also does anyone know if they avoid LoS since unholy feast does. If they do that’s another huge thing. If.

Bhawb.7408:

Cast times are absolutely necessary for at least some of the shouts. Counterplay is not only important for a healthy game, but by allowing a skill to have counterplay you can increase its strength.

The counterplay to all other shouts is playing around the boons and conditions they give with removal, kiting, etc. The boon and condition system inherently allows counterplay because boons and conditions can be removed, stalled out, etc. Reaper shouts do not need to be different; said counterplay is already baked into the game. Otherwise Warriors and Guardians and Rangers would not have instant shouts.

Astaral.8635:

Also that trait to reduce shouts cool-down on hit is not worth taking, the GS trait is good for the Life steal aspect but also hate the using Grave digger a 8sec cd skill to reduce other GS skills by 3% only are just as bad as the new Axe trait

Did you really think this through? Just one example. You are in a group of mobs, you need to hit only one foe with HP under 50% to reduce Gravedigger recharge by 100%. So you can basically spam it. And each time all other skills recharge by 3%. This is far from bad. It is potentially broken at least in PvE and possibly very strong in WvW zerg fights.

Strongest set of shouts in game warremts cast time IMHO.

Boon removal and unlockable. Can have a boon removal build with well, axe #3 , spiteful spirit and the shout.

Jagged horror bleeds is meh but did anyone say jagged horror suicide squad? Immense stacks of poison as well.

Condi transfer and more chill in a bog aoe? Potential yo remove 5 condis or 6 with runes. Even more with sigils and stuff.

Stun break and weakness ? Nice counter to stun burst.

Absoluelty massive aoe stun and long chill? Why not.

4k HP and life force on a short cool down? Coupled with other things and its awesome.

If they were all instant they would be OP.

@TyPin
We also don’t know if its per use or per target struck.

TyPin.9860:

Astaral.8635:

Also that trait to reduce shouts cool-down on hit is not worth taking, the GS trait is good for the Life steal aspect but also hate the using Grave digger a 8sec cd skill to reduce other GS skills by 3% only are just as bad as the new Axe trait

Did you really think this through? Just one example. You are in a group of mobs, you need to hit only one foe with HP under 50% to reduce Gravedigger recharge by 100%. So you can basically spam it. And each time all other skills recharge by 3%. This is far from bad. It is potentially broken at least in PvE and possibly very strong in WvW zerg fights.

Pretty sure 100% cd reduction means halving the cooldown not bringing it off cd immediately. 4 sec cd is the same as the guard longbow #2.

Zetsumei.4975:

TyPin.9860:

Astaral.8635:

Also that trait to reduce shouts cool-down on hit is not worth taking, the GS trait is good for the Life steal aspect but also hate the using Grave digger a 8sec cd skill to reduce other GS skills by 3% only are just as bad as the new Axe trait

Did you really think this through? Just one example. You are in a group of mobs, you need to hit only one foe with HP under 50% to reduce Gravedigger recharge by 100%. So you can basically spam it. And each time all other skills recharge by 3%. This is far from bad. It is potentially broken at least in PvE and possibly very strong in WvW zerg fights.

Pretty sure 100% cd reduction means halving the cooldown not bringing it off cd immediately. 4 sec cd is the same as the guard longbow #2.

Nope, 100% reduction means no cooldown. If it was 100% recharge rate, then it would mean 50% CD reduction (ie. halving the cooldown).

Golby.5348:

The counterplay to all other shouts is playing around the boons and conditions they give with removal, kiting, etc. The boon and condition system inherently allows counterplay because boons and conditions can be removed, stalled out, etc. Reaper shouts do not need to be different; said counterplay is already baked into the game. Otherwise Warriors and Guardians and Rangers would not have instant shouts.

That’s like saying stuns shouldn’t have cast times because you can just remove them afterwards.

The shouts that take a strong, immediate, offensive threat should have appropriate cast times. The only shout in the game which currently has a direct offensive affect on the enemy is Fear Me!, which is far weaker than what we’re getting. All the other ones are buffs/debuffs which require follow up, which can then be counterplayed.

That isn’t to say our shouts need super long cast times, but they need appropriate cast times, which in this case means they actually need cast times. Some need to be reduced like the Elite and Rise, others are fine.