Guild Wars 2

Main reason I came back to the game was to play a Reaper.

Now since ive returned- 2 major hits to the core mechanics of the Reaper have been implemented

1) the minimilization of snares
negates the Reaper core mechanics— CHILL

2) the trivialization of the the CHILL MECHANIC itself— which again is the CORE OF THE REAPER.

this video touts the uniqueness and potential ‘power’ of the reaper

https://youtu.be/DjOrs5krQRw

R.I.P Reaper— it was fun while it didnt last.

Chill hasn’t been trivialized, snares haven’t been minimalized.

Even if the chill changes make Reaper nonviable, we still don’t know if the spec has changed since they showed it off. It’s entirely possible they changed it to account for other changes.

Bhawb.7408:

Chill hasn’t been trivialized, snares haven’t been minimalized.

You’re wrong
chill stacks max 5x
compared to unlimited that every other conditions get.

So specing into chill damage with a reaper is pointless.

Any class with multiple movement abilities will never be caught by the reaper like they are supposed to.

Only fanbois support necro nerfs bawb.

Are you happy with this?

I don’t see how specing into chill damage is pointless. Stacking that much would be a bad idea anyway due to cleansing. Limiting the maximum duration isn’t trivialization. You’re also wrong in that both cripple and immobilize also have a stack cap.

punahou.3986:

Bhawb.7408:

Chill hasn’t been trivialized, snares haven’t been minimalized.

You’re wrong
chill stacks max 5x
compared to unlimited that every other conditions get.

So specing into chill damage with a reaper is pointless.

Any class with multiple movement abilities will never be caught by the reaper like they are supposed to.

Only fanbois support necro nerfs bawb.

Are you happy with this?

Calm thyself. When you’re talking chill stacking, what are you are you meaning? Because the way chill works now, it’s a time stacking condition. Granted yes you can’t stack chill more than 5 times without the oldest being overriden, but really, unless you are burst stacking all your chills (which you shouldn’t, it’s SOOOOO easy to cleanse). And even if you up your chill duration to 100%, you still won’t apply chill enough to reach the cap most of the time. And even if you do, only the oldest chill duration is going to fall off, which will usually be the shortest.

I do agree with you though on the whole “chill not affecting movement skills anymore” thing though. That’s just a low blow to me, but unless I’m mistaken, Anet did say they are looking into how bad these changes are going to affect the Reaper. I’ll leave that up to you as what you think on that, as it’s more based on your faith with Anet. I’d give you the link, but unfortunately, don’t have it on me. -_- Oi need to save things more often.

icd of chill 5s

@Bhawb the optimist even u have to see this is a big Nerf to a class that can barely suffer more nerfs as it is. I think something in IT have made this chill nerf happen but its is so so bad when they give us the background of Reaper as the “Chill maste” and we see a Nerf to it even before its release.´

I still think Reaper will be a great adition to Necro and I still think it will be fun, sad its main CC mechanic to keep targets close is getting nerfed quite Hard. The dmg will be there it seems will we hit the targets tho is the question

And yet there is a youtube clip on a PU shatter Mes 1-burst 3 players down at a Ram near a Tower Gate…. 1 Shatter and 3 downed now does that seem right ? and its the same Dev kitten ….

You’re just being pessimistic at that point. You have no idea if and in which ways the reaper will be tweaked. You simply can’t say it’s a worthless class.

Wait until they give us an update to the spec. If it’s still the same then you’re free to be salty. Currently however, you’re acting like a spoiled kid.

There was no massive nerf to Reaper. Chill can’t stack more than five times, big deal, if you were able to stack more than 5 applications of chill your opponent was mentally AFK already, this is something all other duration conditions have and it doesn’t hurt them at all.

The Chilling Darkness nerf was stupid but it doesn’t nerf Reaper, it nerfs Curses, CD was not a core ability to Reapers, only condi Reaper at most.

I think reaper will be just fine. Mainly because cleave dhuumfire with reaper’s might, unyielding blast, and decimate defenses looks like it could be a strong enough combo to forgo all ranged pressure in a hybrid build.

As long as the life force management is there I think reaper will be really strong. Thats why I really hope that blighter’s boon doesn’t get an ICD added, because that trait with all of the might procs we get from spite (and AoE boons from allies) looks like it’d be enough life force management for the reaper, meaning we wouldn’t need soul marks so we could take up the vuln stacking synergy traits instead. In fact, staff could be forgone for GS as an offset to dag/WH, as you’d only really miss the AoE fear and condi transfer.

Im just excited to have a decent second weapon set. Can even swap warhorn for something else since the pull is still aoe interrupt.

Sigmoid.7082:

Im just excited to have a decent second weapon set. Can even swap warhorn for something else since the pull is still aoe interrupt.

yeah thats what I was thinking, since with D/D and GS on a signet build you wouldn’t miss the condi transfer from staff as much. Although since I have howler I’d be extremely reluctant to give up using warhorn, and I feel like the locus swarm if anything will still be really good for LF management and general movements speed, which would borh be necessary for reaper.

I like how the GS skills can replace staff skills to an extent, like the pull replacing the fear, and the 2 and 3 skills look very strong as well. I still think the auto looks a bit too slow. For me its usage will depend on how well its damage scales with celestial stats, since right now it sounds like an engi magnet-prybar-blunderbuss type of combo set up to me in its ideal use as the dagger auto will be more reliable than the slow GS auto.

punahou.3986:

You’re wrong
chill stacks max 5x
compared to unlimited that every other conditions get.

Ehh no?
I am pretty sure weakness also stacks only 5 times and immob even stacks only 3 times. All in duration of course.

nearlight.3064:

I think reaper will be just fine. Mainly because cleave dhuumfire with reaper’s might, unyielding blast, and decimate defenses looks like it could be a strong enough combo to forgo all ranged pressure in a hybrid build.

As long as the life force management is there I think reaper will be really strong. Thats why I really hope that blighter’s boon doesn’t get an ICD added, because that trait with all of the might procs we get from spite (and AoE boons from allies) looks like it’d be enough life force management for the reaper, meaning we wouldn’t need soul marks so we could take up the vuln stacking synergy traits instead. In fact, staff could be forgone for GS as an offset to dag/WH, as you’d only really miss the AoE fear and condi transfer.

I aggree with almost anything life force management will make this succeed or break and hybrid looks likely with this. Staff on the other hand might become mandatory if only because of the range a 600 pull will not be enough and greatsword will be so slow.

Tim.6450:

nearlight.3064:

I think reaper will be just fine. Mainly because cleave dhuumfire with reaper’s might, unyielding blast, and decimate defenses looks like it could be a strong enough combo to forgo all ranged pressure in a hybrid build.

As long as the life force management is there I think reaper will be really strong. Thats why I really hope that blighter’s boon doesn’t get an ICD added, because that trait with all of the might procs we get from spite (and AoE boons from allies) looks like it’d be enough life force management for the reaper, meaning we wouldn’t need soul marks so we could take up the vuln stacking synergy traits instead. In fact, staff could be forgone for GS as an offset to dag/WH, as you’d only really miss the AoE fear and condi transfer.

I aggree with almost anything life force management will make this succeed or break and hybrid looks likely with this. Staff on the other hand might become mandatory if only because of the range a 600 pull will not be enough and greatsword will be so slow.

Yeah I’ve been thinking a lot about this. I guess you could also go scepter/dagger or scepter/warhorn and GS to have a ranged option, but I don’t really know if the scepter would be that great on a hybrid build, which is really ironic. Mainly it suffers from poor life force generation.

Reaper traits look to be great. Reaper Shroud looks to be amazing. Greatsword looks to be slow. I think its non-autoattack skills could be really useful in pvp. The signets won’t be competitve with signets. I think “Suffer”, the condi transfer shout could be useful if it were a stunbreak too, and the heal shout looks okay, but only because our normal heals aren’t very good.

Right now dagger/warhorn and staff is ideal becuase curses gives you 3 transfers, which is all you really need. When we have the option between reaper and curses, that will get muddled a bit because we face a huge dilemma between managing ranged pressure, condi transfers, and direct damage, and CC/utility, which we don’t have to worry about right now. So it will depend on whether AoE dhuumfire makes up for the loss of ranged pressure, as well as the LF generation.

Honestly, if we had a ranged mainhand hybrid weapon (like the ranger MH axe or warrior sword). I don’t think scepter really cuts it, but I’ll test it out later compared to dagger to see if it works with celestial.

Tim.6450:

nearlight.3064:

I think reaper will be just fine. Mainly because cleave dhuumfire with reaper’s might, unyielding blast, and decimate defenses looks like it could be a strong enough combo to forgo all ranged pressure in a hybrid build.

As long as the life force management is there I think reaper will be really strong. Thats why I really hope that blighter’s boon doesn’t get an ICD added, because that trait with all of the might procs we get from spite (and AoE boons from allies) looks like it’d be enough life force management for the reaper, meaning we wouldn’t need soul marks so we could take up the vuln stacking synergy traits instead. In fact, staff could be forgone for GS as an offset to dag/WH, as you’d only really miss the AoE fear and condi transfer.

I aggree with almost anything life force management will make this succeed or break and hybrid looks likely with this. Staff on the other hand might become mandatory if only because of the range a 600 pull will not be enough and greatsword will be so slow.

I wouldnt say the GS is so slow that its an issue nor is the pull not being enough. You have to bear in mind on a reaper staff #5 will cause the fear to chill so you wont displace your enemy any at all. Pulling them 600 range actually means they need to take 1~3s to travel that distance again. It also pulls in a cone so can be used to move pretty large and wide spread sets of people. Staff in itself is also a relatively slow weapon, you will get around 2 autos off for every 1 GS chain.

Besides from certain points of view it can be said that GS will be much better than staff because it actually does damage. You are really only missing the condi transfer and the fear, both of which can be replaced because of other weapons and new abilities. Staffs main benefit is range. thats about it. As well as which line to drop to take it.

Sigmoid.7082:

Tim.6450:

nearlight.3064:

I think reaper will be just fine. Mainly because cleave dhuumfire with reaper’s might, unyielding blast, and decimate defenses looks like it could be a strong enough combo to forgo all ranged pressure in a hybrid build.

As long as the life force management is there I think reaper will be really strong. Thats why I really hope that blighter’s boon doesn’t get an ICD added, because that trait with all of the might procs we get from spite (and AoE boons from allies) looks like it’d be enough life force management for the reaper, meaning we wouldn’t need soul marks so we could take up the vuln stacking synergy traits instead. In fact, staff could be forgone for GS as an offset to dag/WH, as you’d only really miss the AoE fear and condi transfer.

I aggree with almost anything life force management will make this succeed or break and hybrid looks likely with this. Staff on the other hand might become mandatory if only because of the range a 600 pull will not be enough and greatsword will be so slow.

I wouldnt say the GS is so slow that its an issue nor is the pull not being enough. You have to bear in mind on a reaper staff #5 will cause the fear to chill so you wont displace your enemy any at all. Pulling them 600 range actually means they need to take 1~3s to travel that distance again. It also pulls in a cone so can be used to move pretty large and wide spread sets of people. Staff in itself is also a relatively slow weapon, you will get around 2 autos off for every 1 GS chain.

Besides from certain points of view it can be said that GS will be much better than staff because it actually does damage. You are really only missing the condi transfer and the fear, both of which can be replaced because of other weapons and new abilities. Staffs main benefit is range. thats about it. As well as which line to drop to take it.

Yeah this is how I view it as well. If you go cele signets, you’d want to give up curses for reaper, but if you go power, you’d probably give up blood for reaper. The reason being is that the mightstacking from spite is too good to pass up right now, and reaper will make it even better.

Giving up curses, you lose a condi transfer, path of corruption, and weakness. I think that the things that reaper will be capable of justify losting PoC and the weakness, its just that something else will have to give in order to have enough condi removal. Maybe take consumer conditions again over vamp sig since RS autos will build might faster? I think that could work, since you only really need 2 big condi clears to work well, and plague signet and consume conditions could work. You could also take OH dagger over warhorn, but locus swarm is really really good, and you’ll need wail of doom more since reaper would have less incentive to use fear as the stability will be more useful most of the time.

Anway thats just what I think in regards to the cele builds.

Sigmoid.7082:

I wouldnt say the GS is so slow that its an issue nor is the pull not being enough. You have to bear in mind on a reaper staff #5 will cause the fear to chill so you wont displace your enemy any at all. Pulling them 600 range actually means they need to take 1~3s to travel that distance again. It also pulls in a cone so can be used to move pretty large and wide spread sets of people. Staff in itself is also a relatively slow weapon, you will get around 2 autos off for every 1 GS chain.

Besides from certain points of view it can be said that GS will be much better than staff because it actually does damage. You are really only missing the condi transfer and the fear, both of which can be replaced because of other weapons and new abilities. Staffs main benefit is range. thats about it. As well as which line to drop to take it.

Well you’re right that greatsword 5 hinders mobility more but when you’re outside the 600 range, you’re safe while with staff you’re not. 600 or higher is a very comfortable range for kiting a foe. You don’t even have to be 600 a bit lower can too due to traveling time) Also the damage you will do iwith greatsword will come from gravedigger mostly so I’m not sure it will work (that’s why I called it slow).

Tim.6450:

Sigmoid.7082:

I wouldnt say the GS is so slow that its an issue nor is the pull not being enough. You have to bear in mind on a reaper staff #5 will cause the fear to chill so you wont displace your enemy any at all. Pulling them 600 range actually means they need to take 1~3s to travel that distance again. It also pulls in a cone so can be used to move pretty large and wide spread sets of people. Staff in itself is also a relatively slow weapon, you will get around 2 autos off for every 1 GS chain.

Besides from certain points of view it can be said that GS will be much better than staff because it actually does damage. You are really only missing the condi transfer and the fear, both of which can be replaced because of other weapons and new abilities. Staffs main benefit is range. thats about it. As well as which line to drop to take it.

Well you’re right that greatsword 5 hinders mobility more but when you’re outside the 600 range, you’re safe while with staff you’re not. 600 or higher is a very comfortable range for kiting a foe. You don’t even have to be 600 a bit lower can too due to traveling time) Also the damage you will do iwith greatsword will come from gravedigger mostly so I’m not sure it will work (that’s why I called it slow).

Outside of 600 range with a staff you are extremely safe but you wont put out any pressure at all. Staff #1 can be side stepped and travels very slowly, #2 for kiting does no damage pretty much, only at max 4 stacks of bleed, only #3 is useful for kiting because of the chill on it, #4 does damage but you would want to save it for a transfer and #5 is fear and chill because of how reaper works, again ok for kiting but not for putting out any real damage if we are talking taking cele amulet. The way i see it the only way you would get any real damage from staff is if you took the chill damage trait but then you lose out on lf and healing of blighters boon.

I wouldnt say most of the damage would come from grave digger and using that as a basis to say its slow. The auto has a 2.8 finish time so around the cast time of warrior hammer auto chain, #4 will tick just as hard as a well of suffering. If people waste dodges to avoid being chilled by the auto then thats a win because the chain can be used far more than the time it takes to regain endurance. You have to bear in mind that we have great access to weakness, this means that , without endurance gaining, it takes between 10~20s for enough endurance to dodge. Also that GS skills start at 170 range/cone/area which isnt small when trying to hit stuff.

Staff, for me, will still be a good weapon but i can honestly see myself replacing it with GS because of its damage, better in more situations melee wise and its better use in team fights/on point pressure. Only issue is loss of range in total and which line to drop / what to give up.

I agree that the change to movement skills is a big nerf for snares (chill and cripple). They were already pretty pointless because they didn’t affect teleports, but now with all these rampage warriors running around being literally unstoppable there is literally no point to crippling someone, and the only point to chill is the skill recharge reduction.

When they were previewing these changes, Roy justified it by talking about situations where people used Swiftness and movement skills to get “unintended movement buffs”. In other words: speedrunning dungeons. Listen here: they upended pvp balance and made snares and control gameplay much less viable (unless you’re a stunlock mesmer) SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY COULDN’T BE BOTHERED TO FIX THEIR DUNGEONS SO PEOPLE COULDN’T RUN PAST ALL THE MOBS!

Could they not simply have made movement skills be affected by snares but not by swiftness?

A lot of what im reading here pertains to necros rather than reapers……

anyhow— the reason that the chill stacking is important is due to the the trait deathly chill.

I had the full intent of making a cond/power reaper that is akin to to the buring spec guardian.

Now that idea is out the door as you get a MAX of 5 stacks, whereas guardians pretyy much get unlimited.

As it stands now- my guardian burns take about 3? seconds to ramp up and tick for 2k to 8k.
That mechanic is now removed from the reaper—any for what reason? I dont even know.

Im am sincerely shocked that one of the devs showed himself for over an hour on a livestream touting the Reapers singature skill of note— Chill, and how once chilled— your opponent cannot escape.

Well now ’enemies can escape if they have access to leaps, slides, teleports— which is almost every class.

due to the 2 nerf bats within weeks of each other.— to our parent class— the insanely overpowered, wanted in every group necromancer.

Also— our glap closer— which is in reaper from mind you, has a shorter range than the one in our regular shroud lol.

So chill is relagated to a very minor inconvience, we cant trait it to do massive damage like other builds can with their conditions, and we leap half as far as we used to coupled with much slower attack speeds than every other class.

Hows this beneficial or even neutral for that matter?

It’s minimize. Not Minimilize.

Also, person declaring something nobody outside of ArenaNet has played and is subject to change is “done”.

This thread hurts my brain.

Chill stack in duration it won’t stack in intensity even for the sake of the Reaper. The trait Deathly chill will basically do the same thing than Terror. And I’m pretty sure that fear also have this 5 “stacks” limitation and that nobody actually care about this fact.

Dadnir.5038:

Chill stack in duration it won’t stack in intensity even for the sake of the Reaper. The trait Deathly chill will basically do the same thing than Terror. And I’m pretty sure that fear also have this 5 “stacks” limitation and that nobody actually care about this fact.

ONCE AGAIN INCORRECT

devs stated that chill is now a condition, and as a result, dealthly chill becomes condition based damage and stacks of conditions is where current cond builds get their burst.

if we are limited to 5 stacks thats terrible. If we had unlimted amount of chill stacks— because almost everythig a reaper does ends or results in a chill, then we would have a competative cond build to guardians, mesmers, engineers, and elementalists.

MattyP.6954:

It’s minimize. Not Minimilize.

Also, person declaring something nobody outside of ArenaNet has played and is subject to change is “done”.

This thread hurts my brain.

im not sure why a ranger and engineer is concerned about the reaper— that hurts my brain.

Even the guild sighs when I want to bring my necro to pve/pvp its insane that this class has taken on the red headed step child of anet.

punahou.3986:

Dadnir.5038:

Chill stack in duration it won’t stack in intensity even for the sake of the Reaper. The trait Deathly chill will basically do the same thing than Terror. And I’m pretty sure that fear also have this 5 “stacks” limitation and that nobody actually care about this fact.

ONCE AGAIN INCORRECT

devs stated that chill is now a condition, and as a result, dealthly chill becomes condition based damage and stacks of conditions is where current cond builds get their burst.

if we are limited to 5 stacks thats terrible. If we had unlimted amount of chill stacks— because almost everythig a reaper does ends or results in a chill, then we would have a competative cond build to guardians, mesmers, engineers, and elementalists.

…you’re apparently completely ignorant as to how the game has been functioning since beta.

Chill has always been a condition! And, like all other boons or conditions, has always stacked in either intensity (Might, Vulnerability, Bleeding, Confusion, Torment, and more recently, Stability, Poison, and Burning), or duration (literally everything else).

How Chill behaves has not changed at all since launch. What has changed is that now you can’t stack it for as long of durations as you used to be able to. Burst application of Chill won’t have as strong of an effect now, but burst application of a duration stacking condition has always been a bad idea anyhow.

TLDR: Chill does not, and likely never will stack intensity, so the whole thing of “but 5 stacks” regarding Deathly Chill is 100% idiocy.

punahou.3986:

MattyP.6954:

It’s minimize. Not Minimilize.

Also, person declaring something nobody outside of ArenaNet has played and is subject to change is “done”.

This thread hurts my brain.

im not sure why a ranger and engineer is concerned about the reaper— that hurts my brain.

Even the guild sighs when I want to bring my necro to pve/pvp its insane that this class has taken on the red headed step child of anet.

Actually, I’ve been having a ton of fun with a Bloodmagic Necromancer. It’s an alt. You’ve heard of those, right?

MattyP.6954:

punahou.3986:

MattyP.6954:

It’s minimize. Not Minimilize.

Also, person declaring something nobody outside of ArenaNet has played and is subject to change is “done”.

This thread hurts my brain.

im not sure why a ranger and engineer is concerned about the reaper— that hurts my brain.

Even the guild sighs when I want to bring my necro to pve/pvp its insane that this class has taken on the red headed step child of anet.

Actually, I’ve been having a ton of fun with a Bloodmagic Necromancer. It’s an alt. You’ve heard of those, right?

yes— but for whatever reason necroes still are frowned upon in the pve/spvp community.

@the other guy—
the purpose of deathly chill is a poorly designed gm trait if this is correct on your assumption.

necro never had chills that snared and damaged others before. IF chills can can be traited into for damage, there is no reason why they do not intesify as well.

And if you go back and read the posts about th Reaper— tons of people were asking about chill being handled as a cond or not and

IF +COND ITEMS WOULD INCREASE its damage.

the devs actually resposnded and confirmed that chill as damage would be affected my +cond items.

In any event why are you arguing AGAINST someone who is trying to make the REAPER adhere to what the devs said it was going to do?

Boggles my mind how necros are shunned, then the very same necros come here and like their solidarity as a 2nd rate class per the general population of players.

I hope Reaper is available in the upcoming betas so I can prove myself wrong.

punahou.3986:

MattyP.6954:

punahou.3986:

MattyP.6954:

It’s minimize. Not Minimilize.

Also, person declaring something nobody outside of ArenaNet has played and is subject to change is “done”.

This thread hurts my brain.

im not sure why a ranger and engineer is concerned about the reaper— that hurts my brain.

Even the guild sighs when I want to bring my necro to pve/pvp its insane that this class has taken on the red headed step child of anet.

Actually, I’ve been having a ton of fun with a Bloodmagic Necromancer. It’s an alt. You’ve heard of those, right?

yes— but for whatever reason necroes still are frowned upon in the pve/spvp community.

@the other guy—
the purpose of deathly chill is a poorly designed gm trait if this is correct on your assumption.

necro never had chills that snared and damaged others before. IF chills can can be traited into for damage, there is no reason why they do not intesify as well.

And if you go back and read the posts about th Reaper— tons of people were asking about chill being handled as a cond or not and

IF +COND ITEMS WOULD INCREASE its damage.

the devs actually resposnded and confirmed that chill as damage would be affected my +cond items.

In any event why are you arguing AGAINST someone who is trying to make the REAPER adhere to what the devs said it was going to do?

Boggles my mind how necros are shunned, then the very same necros come here and like their solidarity as a 2nd rate class per the general population of players.

I hope Reaper is available in the upcoming betas so I can prove myself wrong.

You are horridly misinformed. Deathly Chill will work the exact same way with Chill as Terror does with Fear. Numbers will be different, but how it works will be the same.

Is Terror a badly designed trait? You may have a differing opinion, but I would say “no.”

Seriously, all of this confusion could be done away with if people actually paid attention to what was directly stated on the various streams.

To recap:

• Chill has always been, and will always be, a condition. Since it does not stack intensity, it stacks duration instead. To make it stack intensity would make the condition awful for everyone but Deathly Chill Reapers.

• The 5 stack limit just limits the impact of burst application of Chill. It will do virtually nothing at all to spread out applications.

• Deathly Chill will scale off of Condition Damage, not Power. It will add a DoT component to Chills you apply. It will not deal damage at the time you apply Chill.

Chill may not affect the distance of leaps anymore but it still affects the recharge. Except thieves of course but they have always been more or less immune.

What Drarnor said.

Terror gives way more damage than bleeding because bleeding can actually stack intensity and fear always has “100% effectivness”. It’ll be the same with chill. No reason to cry wolf there.

Why do people refuse to understand how this works? Nobody thought that Fear would be changed to stack in intensity instead of duration when they introduced Terror, so why do they think Chill does?