Reaper in WvW
after playing for awhile now ive found the reaper to be almost utterly useless in wvw and pvp, it is slow kitable and easily avoidable, I love what they tried to do but for me its a huge miss considering I look at wvw as endgame, if you want to play the new OP “must buy xpack” class then go for the rev hammer thrower. Ive played over 5000 hours on necro and to be ballparked into an even slower and dumber spec that everyone can run from and laugh at has just about drawn the last straw for me.
Zee Bear Claw [GLAD]
Aurora Glade
Aurora Glade
after playing for awhile now ive found the reaper to be almost utterly useless in wvw and pvp, it is slow kitable and easily avoidable, I love what they tried to do but for me its a huge miss considering I look at wvw as endgame, if you want to play the new OP “must buy xpack” class then go for the rev hammer thrower. Ive played over 5000 hours on necro and to be ballparked into an even slower and dumber spec that everyone can run from and laugh at has just about drawn the last straw for me.
wouldn’t chill be good for frontline with soft CC? Need stab from ally but I imagine it to be a nice addition to the hard CC train. What am i missing
after playing for awhile now ive found the reaper to be almost utterly useless in wvw and pvp, it is slow kitable and easily avoidable, I love what they tried to do but for me its a huge miss considering I look at wvw as endgame, if you want to play the new OP “must buy xpack” class then go for the rev hammer thrower. Ive played over 5000 hours on necro and to be ballparked into an even slower and dumber spec that everyone can run from and laugh at has just about drawn the last straw for me.
wouldn’t chill be good for frontline with soft CC? Need stab from ally but I imagine it to be a nice addition to the hard CC train. What am i missing
It will immediately get cleansed from all the group cleansing flying around. And without BB from allies now we can’t sustain ourselves in the Zerg as a front liner.
In roaming, with most roamers being thief, meaner, Nike warrior or elementalist, they’ll just run the moment you enter reaper shroud and use a leap of teleport since they’re no longer affected by chill. Even with RS 2, you won’t have enough range to catch them. Afterwards they’ll just kite you till you exit and then nuke you. Chill should really affect the range of movement abilities again, that change screwed us over. .
A knight in shining armor is a man who never had his metal truly tested.
after playing for awhile now ive found the reaper to be almost utterly useless in wvw and pvp, it is slow kitable and easily avoidable, I love what they tried to do but for me its a huge miss considering I look at wvw as endgame, if you want to play the new OP “must buy xpack” class then go for the rev hammer thrower. Ive played over 5000 hours on necro and to be ballparked into an even slower and dumber spec that everyone can run from and laugh at has just about drawn the last straw for me.
wouldn’t chill be good for frontline with soft CC? Need stab from ally but I imagine it to be a nice addition to the hard CC train. What am i missing
It will immediately get cleansed from all the group cleansing flying around. And without BB from allies now we can’t sustain ourselves in the Zerg as a front liner.
In roaming, with most roamers being thief, meaner, Nike warrior or elementalist, they’ll just run the moment you enter reaper shroud and use a leap of teleport since they’re no longer affected by chill. Even with RS 2, you won’t have enough range to catch them. Afterwards they’ll just kite you till you exit and then nuke you. Chill should really affect the range of movement abilities again, that change screwed us over. .
It sounds like people are adapting to Reaper, but you don’t want to adapt to their adaptation and further the evolution of the matchups.
Get busy adaptin’, or get busy dyin’.
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
after playing for awhile now ive found the reaper to be almost utterly useless in wvw and pvp, it is slow kitable and easily avoidable, I love what they tried to do but for me its a huge miss considering I look at wvw as endgame, if you want to play the new OP “must buy xpack” class then go for the rev hammer thrower. Ive played over 5000 hours on necro and to be ballparked into an even slower and dumber spec that everyone can run from and laugh at has just about drawn the last straw for me.
wouldn’t chill be good for frontline with soft CC? Need stab from ally but I imagine it to be a nice addition to the hard CC train. What am i missing
It will immediately get cleansed from all the group cleansing flying around. And without BB from allies now we can’t sustain ourselves in the Zerg as a front liner.
In roaming, with most roamers being thief, meaner, Nike warrior or elementalist, they’ll just run the moment you enter reaper shroud and use a leap of teleport since they’re no longer affected by chill. Even with RS 2, you won’t have enough range to catch them. Afterwards they’ll just kite you till you exit and then nuke you. Chill should really affect the range of movement abilities again, that change screwed us over. .
It sounds like people are adapting to Reaper, but you don’t want to adapt to their adaptation and further the evolution of the matchups.
Get busy adaptin’, or get busy dyin’.
Suggestions? Currently I’m running knights armor with ice runes, with valk trinkets and zerk weapons to achieve a 30% crit chance with about 190% crit damage, 2.5k armor and 27,000 vitality. Utilities are spectral grasp, spectral walk and plague signet, gonna try using chilled to the bone, but if it doesn’t work out might try reaper of Grenth or flesh golem. Heal is CC.
Weapons are GS and staff. Having some success with the greatsword, more than I thought I would, the increased range and cast speed of grasp of darkness is wonderful.
Specs are reaper, soul reaping and spite, taking Apply vul on chill, spinal shivers and spiteful spirit. Soul reaping I’m take the the 25% run speed in shroud trait, vital persistence and foot in the grave. Reaper, decrease movement impairing conditions duration, decimate defenses and reaper’s onslaught.
Working on a Condi build but first have to get trailblazer armor.
A knight in shining armor is a man who never had his metal truly tested.
Hello repers! I play mostly in wvw and pve, and i’m looking for a nice build to do both. What is now our role in wvw? Can we stay with the melee train? Full pvt spite/sr/reaper can be a solution?
WvW ZvZ, GvG, or roaming? There’s quite a big difference. If ZvZ, I’d suggest playing midline reaper, shouts build, pvt or valk+zerker. Reapers really can’t hang with frontline melees, with no block, invulns, real escapes, and the recent Blighter’s Boon nerfs, you’ll die way too much to be useful as frontline melee. Try to make sure you aren’t near well/cc bombs. It’s hilarious seeing 18-20k gravedigger cleaves with a valk+zerker build. Risky, but very rewarding. You can even load well of suffering for added aoe bomb along with shouts.
If roaming, any condi/sustain builds are strong. Just remember you can’t escape and you can’t choose engagement, so roaming can be a bit frustrating at times.
I appreciate you outlining your build, but I think you need to forget about your build for a minute. It looks like you have mobility tools and pull tools, along with condi transfers/cleanses. So let’s leave it at that for a minute.
You mentioned that people will use a teleport/leap when you enter RS, then kite. Do they also cleanse chill when you enter RS? Are you timing chills so they are applied when you enter RS to slow them down? Are you using Swiftness before entering RS (with Spectral Walk) to try to catch them?
What other tools are they using to kite? When you exit RS, what sort of burst are they applying, and is their timing on the burst obvious? If you take the 25% run speed with Shroud, it also means you are getting the 30% recharge reduction, so you have 7 seconds before you can go back into shroud. You can pretty comfortably dodge twice within that timeframe, maybe use Staff #5/GS #4 to help negate/control the bursts, but it all depends on what your opponent is doing exactly.
Also, how much damage are they doing when they kite you? If not much, and if the pull utilities like Spectral Grasp aren’t working out, you might want to try swapping for Spectral Armor, or otherwise attempting to maximize your LF generation in case you need to sit in RS while your cooldowns come back.
Maybe when they run away, you run away too. Just use RS #2 in the opposite direction and force them to close the distance. If they don’t want to fight, don’t fight. It sounds like you’re fighting on their terms, which is giving them the advantage. If you force them to blow teleports/leaps to catch up, then turn and start going to town, you may flip the tables. I know it might sound annoying, but if you want high mobility to catch people who run, Necro isn’t your jam.
I think a better use of time than analyzing your build at the moment is analyzing your opponents’ builds. What are they built for? What abilities do the most damage? How are they using them to counter what you have? Sometimes it isn’t your build, but your execution that can turn a fight. I’m not saying it is going to be easy, and if you really want to shine, you might have to switch your weapons around. However, if you simply love GS and Staff (which is probably going to be my combo in WvW, too), then it’s just a matter of taking the time to learn what they’re doing that is killing you. I also used to frequently swap utilities based on what class I saw in the distance, so it might be a matter of tailoring your abilities to the class you’re fighting as well.
That’s my generic advice, anyway. Often, especially if I’m using a new weapon set/build/haven’t played in 6 months, I’ll find that I’m focusing much more on what I’m doing than what the opponent is doing. Sometimes it works if the opponent is doing generic things and I remember a burst or two that I evade, but often against the meta builds, I end up thinking back to the fight and saying “What exactly did they do that killed me?”, and I have absolutely no idea because I was thinking more about what I was doing. It might benefit you to, in a fight, just do some simple, generic ability combo while watching them very, very closely. You’ll probably lose, but your awareness of what is happening grows incredibly, and the next time you fight you might have already thought of something to take the fight further.
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
after playing for awhile now ive found the reaper to be almost utterly useless in wvw and pvp, it is slow kitable and easily avoidable, I love what they tried to do but for me its a huge miss considering I look at wvw as endgame, if you want to play the new OP “must buy xpack” class then go for the rev hammer thrower. Ive played over 5000 hours on necro and to be ballparked into an even slower and dumber spec that everyone can run from and laugh at has just about drawn the last straw for me.
wouldn’t chill be good for frontline with soft CC? Need stab from ally but I imagine it to be a nice addition to the hard CC train. What am i missing
It will immediately get cleansed from all the group cleansing flying around. And without BB from allies now we can’t sustain ourselves in the Zerg as a front liner.
but chill doesn’t stay long in the first place so cleanse shouldn’t be too much of a problem? Sad that I don’t have a hardcore wvw guild now I can’t test it. Also I want to try the new vigilant stats.
Ah good so my build is solid, so it’s jut my skill. Admittedly I am rusty and very used to the base necro’s range, but am excited for reaper as it gives me what I really want. And I’m not really looking to chase down people per say, more of just forcing them to stay in an engagement when I know they want to just run. I hate gankers, despise them, which I know you think ,“then why are you roaming?” Specifically because of that reason, so I can turn the tables on them….plus killing thieves and mesmers has resulted in some hilarious hate mail while on my necro :P
I’ll try and work on my rotations and read more into what they’re doing. Thanks for the advice.
A knight in shining armor is a man who never had his metal truly tested.
Ah good so my build is solid, so it’s jut my skill. Admittedly I am rusty and very used to the base necro’s range, but am excited for reaper as it gives me what I really want. And I’m not really looking to chase down people per say, more of just forcing them to stay in an engagement when I know they want to just run. I hate gankers, despise them, which I know you think ,“then why are you roaming?” Specifically because of that reason, so I can turn the tables on them….plus killing thieves and mesmers has resulted in some hilarious hate mail while on my necro :P
I’ll try and work on my rotations and read more into what they’re doing. Thanks for the advice.
I’m not trying to say you’re playing poorly, or that your build won’t need any changes. However, I think people often get wrapped up in builds, and they forget about the nuances of the fight itself. I always blame my skill first, then once I feel satisfied that I am performing somewhat well, I look at what I am really struggling against to figure out if it’s a build thing. So for example, if I’m being Blind spammed, I look at what I’m trying to do (maybe land DS #1s or other slow attacks) and try to incorporate more channeling abilities to negate that issue.
Kudos to you for sticking with what you want stylistically, though. It might be rough against certain classes/builds by nature of the beast, but that doesn’t mean you can’t perform well. And unfortunately, forcing some classes to stay in an engagement out in an open world is almost impossible. Makes me sad, but if a Thief wants to get away, he’s going to get away from me, so I have to surprise him into the ground with a combo/etc.
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
Nothing about reaper does anything useful compared to backline zerker necro. Unless they ever revert stability I don’t ever see us making it into the train. Or what’s left of actual melee trains.
ReRolled [Re] GvG Hero/Wannabe
Best NA rallybot on EU
Best NA rallybot on EU
basically it doesn’t matter about anything when it comes to builds or skill, because the simple fact is everything the reaper does, is just to slow, it’s like fighting with one hand tied behind your back.
Zee Bear Claw [GLAD]
Aurora Glade
Aurora Glade
basically it doesn’t matter about anything when it comes to builds or skill, because the simple fact is everything the reaper does, is just to slow, it’s like fighting with one hand tied behind your back.
I’ve been landing slow abilities that everyone claims will never hit anyone since the game released. Warrior Hammer, Necro Focus, Necro Dagger #3, etc. You aren’t always going to be fighting a professional player, and there’s a lot you can do to work with slow abilities.
People rule out skill with such speed that I wonder if they even really tried in the first place.
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
after playing for awhile now ive found the reaper to be almost utterly useless in wvw and pvp, it is slow kitable and easily avoidable, I love what they tried to do but for me its a huge miss considering I look at wvw as endgame, if you want to play the new OP “must buy xpack” class then go for the rev hammer thrower. Ive played over 5000 hours on necro and to be ballparked into an even slower and dumber spec that everyone can run from and laugh at has just about drawn the last straw for me.
wouldn’t chill be good for frontline with soft CC? Need stab from ally but I imagine it to be a nice addition to the hard CC train. What am i missing
It will immediately get cleansed from all the group cleansing flying around. And without BB from allies now we can’t sustain ourselves in the Zerg as a front liner.
In roaming, with most roamers being thief, meaner, Nike warrior or elementalist, they’ll just run the moment you enter reaper shroud and use a leap of teleport since they’re no longer affected by chill. Even with RS 2, you won’t have enough range to catch them. Afterwards they’ll just kite you till you exit and then nuke you. Chill should really affect the range of movement abilities again, that change screwed us over. .
It sounds like people are adapting to Reaper, but you don’t want to adapt to their adaptation and further the evolution of the matchups.
Get busy adaptin’, or get busy dyin’.
Nothing gives me constipation more than this type of post. The guy has 5000 hours, this is not someone who just jumped into the class and is wondering what the F1 button does.
I think i have a way to solve this problem. Taunt, a high range (2k units) Aoe ground targeted taunt as well as a skill similar to a ward.
after playing for awhile now ive found the reaper to be almost utterly useless in wvw and pvp, it is slow kitable and easily avoidable, I love what they tried to do but for me its a huge miss considering I look at wvw as endgame, if you want to play the new OP “must buy xpack” class then go for the rev hammer thrower. Ive played over 5000 hours on necro and to be ballparked into an even slower and dumber spec that everyone can run from and laugh at has just about drawn the last straw for me.
wouldn’t chill be good for frontline with soft CC? Need stab from ally but I imagine it to be a nice addition to the hard CC train. What am i missing
It will immediately get cleansed from all the group cleansing flying around. And without BB from allies now we can’t sustain ourselves in the Zerg as a front liner.
In roaming, with most roamers being thief, meaner, Nike warrior or elementalist, they’ll just run the moment you enter reaper shroud and use a leap of teleport since they’re no longer affected by chill. Even with RS 2, you won’t have enough range to catch them. Afterwards they’ll just kite you till you exit and then nuke you. Chill should really affect the range of movement abilities again, that change screwed us over. .
It sounds like people are adapting to Reaper, but you don’t want to adapt to their adaptation and further the evolution of the matchups.
Get busy adaptin’, or get busy dyin’.
Nothing gives me constipation more than this type of post. The guy has 5000 hours, this is not someone who just jumped into the class and is wondering what the F1 button does.
I think i have a way to solve this problem. Taunt, a high range (2k units) Aoe ground targeted taunt as well as a skill similar to a ward.
So you assume that someone who has potentially spent 4000+ hours doing the same thing against the same sorts of classes will automatically and instantly adapt after a few days to a completely new build, against completely new builds?
I don’t care if someone has 10,000 hours played. Time spent doesn’t mean a person is infallible. Also, if you take a hiatus, you’re usually rusty when you come back, as well. Sometimes a new perspective kicks you back into gear.
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
Gotta say I love the new heart of thrones reaper update. My WVW build tonight was reaper without the great sword. I basically just took the death magic, curses, and reaper, then used staff and scepter like a terrormancer. Too bad vege pizza got nerfed (cries).
I have to say that condi/terrormancer got a nice buff with the reaper. Reaper 4 skill has a nice poison damage and the reaper chill dot along with the fear chills trait is great! Im a fairly new player with lots of cash to waste so I spent like 100 buying gold testing out different builds.
For WVW the chill terrormancer works really well. The new chill damage dot is nice.
Cogbyrn is right about finding ways to utilize the strengths of the class. Spike / burst damage is the key to generating downs. A glassy Reaper hybrid appears to be very good at this. Too many people tend to focus on overall / sustained damage. Not to mention those might stacks / vulnerability / chills and what it does for our marks/well bombs, and it is so amazingly fun to play.
Here is a video of some of my first hours as a Reaper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M1UlvZRITo
#adapt
*dedicated to FIERCE for the salt
Tarnished Coast
[OnS] Medaria Minnick – Reaper
The Mad Priest
[OnS] Medaria Minnick – Reaper
The Mad Priest
(edited by Cephas.4293)
From playing yesterday on my reaper, I’m really good at picking people off and herding them into death.
Reaper shroud is no joke, shroud 5 is a stun AND chill, so they’ll probably try to use a stun break, but if you use shroud 4 and are chilling them the entire time(while following) it’s hard for them to escape that damage.
then of course shroud 2 is a good gap closer, and you can shroud 3 for stab and for fearing them, leap to them again…and continue.
I use dagger/warhorn still(GS is not a pvp weapon even though the pull is fun)
if I warhorn 5+4 into reaper shroud 5+4 it’s usually pretty lethal, not many people pack 3 stun breaks.
It’s all about just applying smashy pressure onto them.
Although…it’s kind of HARD to be super tanky on a reaper in wvw due to….if you want sustain you need BB which requires spite, but death magic is where the super tankyness comes from.
RISE is a fantastic skill though, most people will ignore your pets so when those pets are attacking you’re getting a 50% damage redux.
plus 10% reduction from chill.
another 7% reduction if you use scrapper runes.
i’ll admit my earlier words were abit hasty and harsh, the reaper is a wrecking ball if people or even groups try to come at you, use your chill elite then your might shout and rise shout with the minions tough stacker trait in death, then 5 and just go all necrocopter on them until they all fall over. Like someone mentioned its a point of getting used to it all and adapting.
Zee Bear Claw [GLAD]
Aurora Glade
Aurora Glade
I’ve always primarily have done roaming/havoc squads on my necro, but I feel reaper with rabid/dire gear in WvW as far as roaming is concerned right now is very strong. I can not only flip camps faster but players drop quicker than I could ever remember. I’ve got about 1,500 hours played on my necromancer and I’m enjoying it thus far. The RS just feels so good. I can apply burning, poison and vulnerability so easily now.
(edited by Brighteluden.2974)
Cogbyrn is right about finding ways to utilize the strengths of the class. Spike / burst damage is the key to generating downs. A glassy Reaper hybrid appears to be very good at this. Too many people tend to focus on overall / sustained damage. Not to mention those might stacks / vulnerability / chills and what it does for our marks/well bombs, and it is so amazingly fun to play.
Here is a video of some of my first hours as a Reaper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M1UlvZRITo
#adapt
*dedicated to FIERCE for the salt
Cephas, thanks for the video, looks like fun and a lot like current Necro plus RS…? I do notice you pushing out front of tag a lot, then falling back, which reminds me of the old chilling darkness gameplay. Mind posting a link to your build?
A couple quick questions: Why do you slot Spectral Wall? I don’t see that much in wvw builds, just curious. Don’t you miss not having a stun break? Also, I see you using Plague for elite — I used that in the chilling darkness days, do you spec into chill on blind? Or use this more defensively?
U can run with the train in plague form.
Use #3 or #2 Traited and you’ll be fine. You will not do much damage but you will tag everything for loot and you will separate players from their zerg with your cripples long enough for them to be picked off.
I also am not sold on what Reaper gives you that necromancer doesnt already give you.
#24 leaderboard rank North America.
Frontline Reaper
There’s no reason you can’t run with the frontline. You might not be the frontline, but you can certainly wreak havoc in engagements. The premise is to stay in Shroud as much as possible and Dig Graves when safe.
Fishsticks
Frontline Reaper
There’s no reason you can’t run with the frontline. You might not be the frontline, but you can certainly wreak havoc in engagements. The premise is to stay in Shroud as much as possible and Dig Graves when safe.
Have you tested this build in large fights?
Trooper runes don’t offer a better group support?
YSIM without shout trait, give enough heal?
(edited by Eolh.5436)
The utilities are probably a little outdated, I made that link awhile ago. Do whatever, but the point stands. Shroud is love, Shroud is life.
Fishsticks
Cogbyrn is right about finding ways to utilize the strengths of the class. Spike / burst damage is the key to generating downs. A glassy Reaper hybrid appears to be very good at this. Too many people tend to focus on overall / sustained damage. Not to mention those might stacks / vulnerability / chills and what it does for our marks/well bombs, and it is so amazingly fun to play.
Here is a video of some of my first hours as a Reaper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M1UlvZRITo
#adapt
*dedicated to FIERCE for the salt
Cephas, thanks for the video, looks like fun and a lot like current Necro plus RS…? I do notice you pushing out front of tag a lot, then falling back, which reminds me of the old chilling darkness gameplay. Mind posting a link to your build?
A couple quick questions: Why do you slot Spectral Wall? I don’t see that much in wvw builds, just curious. Don’t you miss not having a stun break? Also, I see you using Plague for elite — I used that in the chilling darkness days, do you spec into chill on blind? Or use this more defensively?
Hey,
After much testing we determined that a frontline Reaper wasn’t viable for our guild. However, we did determine that a kind of D/D Ele style of play could be effective burst damage and generate many downs. The key for my build is chill pressure and high damage that rivals / exceeds backline Necros with our ability to stack might. Otherwise, we retain wells and other backline abilities. Spectral Wall, when traited, chills and when dropped on a pushing melee train strips stab like no other. It also messes up enemy regroups. In T1 it appears JQ and BG are not adapting well to the new meta so the YB alliance guilds (Mad Court Alliance) in working together are currently able to push them hard unless we are significantly outnumbered. That is why you don’t see me using Spectral Wall much even though it is slotted. Our marks bombs are enough to halt their pushes. I was using Plague for the pressure it can apply to frontline and for the extra survivability. Necros lack an invuln that other melee classes possess. I am oftentimes, depending on the situation, using one of the shouts and using the new elite.
My aggressive play is also a product of the ease of the fights. Against better guilds I would have been far less aggressive. This is also testing phase for our new builds so I was trying to push the limits to show full capability.
Tarnished Coast
[OnS] Medaria Minnick – Reaper
The Mad Priest
[OnS] Medaria Minnick – Reaper
The Mad Priest
(edited by Cephas.4293)
Agreeing with Cephas here. Found that the D/D ele style provided good results.