Guild Wars 2

I’ve seen the reaper @ gamescom and I can’t wait to try it saturday.
It looked like an immortal juggernaut with slow but heavy hits.

Nice job dev team. This will probably save necromancer.

Kidel.2057:

heavy hits.

This is just factually inaccurate, it deals worse damage than Guard Hammer unless they very significantly boosted ratios, and everything we’ve seen so far says they didn’t.

the reaper looks like kitten in anything but casual pve

I think reaper will be great without a greatsword in pvp. I mean RS is a straight up impovement over normal DS since it gives you generally better skills that are much more fluid and not held back by clunky cast times, plus extremely high levels of stability, thats just amazing.

Bhawb.7408:

Kidel.2057:

heavy hits.

This is just factually inaccurate, it deals worse damage than Guard Hammer unless they very significantly boosted ratios, and everything we’ve seen so far says they didn’t.

fyi, if you’re running spite with reaper, which is something you should do, you will be sitting on perm 25 might stacks. the guy on the stream hit 5k auto attacks and his gravedigger and shroud5 crit for over 7k. tell me how guard can hit harder than that.

gravedigger has a 1s gcd if the target is under 50% hp so if you’re counting or baiting dodges and you’re able to hit your gravediggers you will literally be destroying their molecules because it’s a backstab without stealth and without a real cooldown.

Jekkt.6045:

Bhawb.7408:

Kidel.2057:

heavy hits.

This is just factually inaccurate, it deals worse damage than Guard Hammer unless they very significantly boosted ratios, and everything we’ve seen so far says they didn’t.

fyi, if you’re running spite with reaper, which is something you should do, you will be sitting on perm 25 might stacks. the guy on the stream hit 5k auto attacks and his gravedigger and shroud5 crit for over 7k. tell me how guard can hit harder than that.

gravedigger has a 1s gcd if the target is under 50% hp so if you’re counting or baiting dodges and you’re able to hit your gravediggers you will literally be destroying their molecules.

I think the focus is on how bad the GS is. It would be funny in a sad way if the GS is useless with reaper in PvP.

that depends on its ability to generate life force sadly, and as it seems right now dagger will be better but tests on friday will show.

as of now dagger generates 8% life force on roughly 2s so a theoretical number of 4%/s

greatsword generates 12-36 on 10s and 6-18 on 30s which is a minimum of 1.4%/s and a maximum of 4.2%/s

reaper shroud also generates 1%/s with auto attacks

it’s hard to tell how good it will be because reaper also gets % from blighter’s boon so it might equal to what we have now. but dagger will surely be more.

7k damage with 25 might isn’t good. A medi hammer guard could easily deal that much damage with 25 might. Also, reaper will not be sitting on a ton of might unless they run signets, which means they won’t be in zerker gear. Also, why bait and count dodges to land “big” damage on a reaper when you can take a thief or a mes and not have to worry as much about counting dodges because you actually have setups with stuns and stealth.

My last point is that reaper won’t be great in pve, which is the gametype where necros need help the most. Even if your hitting 10k damage on gravediggers it still won’t be great dps, it would need to be upwards of 15-20k damage per gravedigger to be really good in pve and even then we are still behind the other classes in terms of support. Thankfully, there is time for input and change.

They’ve succeeded graphically that’s for sure.

Sagat.3285:

They’ve succeeded graphically that’s for sure.

agreed, it looks awesome.

I intend to use the greatsword in a hybrid build (hoping the scaling of chill with condition is good). But as I have mentioned a few times, I think it should have higher average DPS than dagger to make up for its slow cast time, but currently it is lower. And for some reason they nerfed gravedigger. Probably having a skill that you can chain only if the enemy is below 50% health and hitting less hard than the dagger AA was OP…

It reminds me of the last update of harmonious mantra for mesmers: requiring more efforts than before the 23rd update for less damage output.

zapv.8051:

7k damage with 25 might isn’t good. A medi hammer guard could easily deal that much damage with 25 might. Also, reaper will not be sitting on a ton of might unless they run signets, which means they won’t be in zerker gear. Also, why bait and count dodges to land “big” damage on a reaper when you can take a thief or a mes and not have to worry as much about counting dodges because you actually have setups with stuns and stealth.

My last point is that reaper won’t be great in pve, which is the gametype where necros need help the most. Even if your hitting 10k damage on gravediggers it still won’t be great dps, it would need to be upwards of 15-20k damage per gravedigger to be really good in pve and even then we are still behind the other classes in terms of support. Thankfully, there is time for input and change.

so what, it’s the fact that a guardian can’t get 25 might on his own but a reaper can. and fyi, you can’t just take a thief or a mesmer and land all your damage without people dodging, maybe against stupid ones but certainly not against good ones. every good mesmer and thief count enemy dodges or wait for a dodge before they burst.

pull on gs + gravedigger is also a setup
or fear + shroud5

zapv.8051:

7k damage with 25 might isn’t good. A medi hammer guard could easily deal that much damage with 25 might. Also, reaper will not be sitting on a ton of might unless they run signets, which means they won’t be in zerker gear. Also, why bait and count dodges to land “big” damage on a reaper when you can take a thief or a mes and not have to worry as much about counting dodges because you actually have setups with stuns and stealth.

Reaper has a trait for might so you don’t need to do the signet thing.

zapv.8051:

My last point is that reaper won’t be great in pve, which is the gametype where necros need help the most. Even if your hitting 10k damage on gravediggers it still won’t be great dps, it would need to be upwards of 15-20k damage per gravedigger to be really good in pve and even then we are still behind the other classes in terms of support. Thankfully, there is time for input and change.

Your standards seem unrealistic. What hits for 10k with no cooldown or resource gating? Even with thief you end up having downtime.

Khristophoros.7194:

Reaper has a trait for might so you don’t need to do the signet thing.

I highly doubt that the might from chilling force will be enough, given that the might lasts only 5 seconds and it has a 5 second ICD. With Spite traits though it would probably work just fine with or without signets of suffering, since reaper’s might and siphoned power are the main might builders.

Gravedigger has downtime, it only resets to 80% now, and only if you hit something below 50% with your massive channel. Realistically players won’t be hit by Gravedigger unless you really go out of your way to set it up. The problem is a 7k hit with 25 might isn’t actually very amazing with the amount of setup we’re asking for. If you want to do that just AA with life blast once. Skills with comparable setup do far more damage on any other profession.

Khristophoros.7194:

zapv.8051:

zapv.8051:

Your standards seem unrealistic. What hits for 10k with no cooldown or resource gating? Even with thief you end up having downtime.

Um…. a weak hitting life blast… the third part of the dagger auto attack chain… im sure there are others lol

EDIT: oh and one more thing… they made it so grave digger doesnt reset its CD completely when it hits an enemy below 50%?!? I hope youre joking….

Jekkt.6045:

pull on gs + gravedigger is also a setup

Maybe u could count how many times the skill fails in jebros hands idk but it looks as trash as our sidesteppable focus

Khristophoros.7194:

Your standards seem unrealistic. What hits for 10k with no cooldown or resource gating? Even with thief you end up having downtime.

Assuming we’re talking about PvE, dagger auto for one hits for about 10k on the last hit, Life Blast can be pushed to about 11k per hit and Deathly Claws puts you at about 14k a hit.

Kidel.2057:

I’ve seen the reaper @ gamescom and I can’t wait to try it saturday.
It looked like an immortal juggernaut with slow but heavy hits.

Nice job dev team. This will probably save necromancer.

Just a FYI, looking amazing has never been our problem.

Khristophoros.7194:

zapv.8051:

7k damage with 25 might isn’t good. A medi hammer guard could easily deal that much damage with 25 might. Also, reaper will not be sitting on a ton of might unless they run signets, which means they won’t be in zerker gear. Also, why bait and count dodges to land “big” damage on a reaper when you can take a thief or a mes and not have to worry as much about counting dodges because you actually have setups with stuns and stealth.

Reaper has a trait for might so you don’t need to do the signet thing.

zapv.8051:

My last point is that reaper won’t be great in pve, which is the gametype where necros need help the most. Even if your hitting 10k damage on gravediggers it still won’t be great dps, it would need to be upwards of 15-20k damage per gravedigger to be really good in pve and even then we are still behind the other classes in terms of support. Thankfully, there is time for input and change.

Your standards seem unrealistic. What hits for 10k with no cooldown or resource gating? Even with thief you end up having downtime.

My point is you won’t be sitting at 25 might the overwhelming majority of the time. There will be good might stacking, but not to the extent where your just constantly at 25 might.

My standards are not unrealistic. Gravedigger has a 1.25 second cast time, literally Helen Keller could dodge it. Also, that quoted damage would be for pve with pretty much every buff. In pvp, in a zerker amulet 10k would not be unreasonable considering how easy the skill is to avoid. Also, it isn’t about dealing 10k damage it is about dealing 10k dps, which a lot of classes can get to currently. It’s also the problem with reaper, if you land these big slow cast time skills you should be rewarded with more damage than literally everyone else because it was harder to land than everything else. 7k is how much dps gravedigger should do in a cele amulet with 20ish might, not a marauder amulet with 20ish might.

Flumek.9043:

Jekkt.6045:

pull on gs + gravedigger is also a setup

Maybe u could count how many times the skill fails in jebros hands idk but it looks as trash as our sidesteppable focus

if they dodge it then it’s already a good thing for you, even if they dodge the pull it means they can’t dodge gravedigger if they dodge a 2nd time. and as i have said many times, it’s still in beta so i’m sure anet will try to improve on clunky skills, they did so with revenant too they said.

Aktium.9506:

Khristophoros.7194:

Your standards seem unrealistic. What hits for 10k with no cooldown or resource gating? Even with thief you end up having downtime.

Assuming we’re talking about PvE, dagger auto for one hits for about 10k on the last hit, Life Blast can be pushed to about 11k per hit and Deathly Claws puts you at about 14k a hit.

Necrotic Bite is every 3 hits, not every hit.
Lich and Shroud are both gated.

zapv.8051:

Khristophoros.7194:

zapv.8051:

7k damage with 25 might isn’t good. A medi hammer guard could easily deal that much damage with 25 might. Also, reaper will not be sitting on a ton of might unless they run signets, which means they won’t be in zerker gear. Also, why bait and count dodges to land “big” damage on a reaper when you can take a thief or a mes and not have to worry as much about counting dodges because you actually have setups with stuns and stealth.

Reaper has a trait for might so you don’t need to do the signet thing.

zapv.8051:

My last point is that reaper won’t be great in pve, which is the gametype where necros need help the most. Even if your hitting 10k damage on gravediggers it still won’t be great dps, it would need to be upwards of 15-20k damage per gravedigger to be really good in pve and even then we are still behind the other classes in terms of support. Thankfully, there is time for input and change.

Your standards seem unrealistic. What hits for 10k with no cooldown or resource gating? Even with thief you end up having downtime.

My point is you won’t be sitting at 25 might the overwhelming majority of the time. There will be good might stacking, but not to the extent where your just constantly at 25 might.

My standards are not unrealistic. Gravedigger has a 1.25 second cast time, literally Helen Keller could dodge it. Also, that quoted damage would be for pve with pretty much every buff. In pvp, in a zerker amulet 10k would not be unreasonable considering how easy the skill is to avoid. Also, it isn’t about dealing 10k damage it is about dealing 10k dps, which a lot of classes can get to currently. It’s also the problem with reaper, if you land these big slow cast time skills you should be rewarded with more damage than literally everyone else because it was harder to land than everything else. 7k is how much dps gravedigger should do in a cele amulet with 20ish might, not a marauder amulet with 20ish might.

you do know that ele’s fire grab crits for around 7k on a fire build with 25 might against med-light armor classes but is on a way higher cooldown than gravedigger right?

Khristophoros.7194:

Aktium.9506:

Khristophoros.7194:

Your standards seem unrealistic. What hits for 10k with no cooldown or resource gating? Even with thief you end up having downtime.

Assuming we’re talking about PvE, dagger auto for one hits for about 10k on the last hit, Life Blast can be pushed to about 11k per hit and Deathly Claws puts you at about 14k a hit.

Necrotic Bite is every 3 hits, not every hit.
Lich and Shroud are both gated.

Well, you just asked for a skill that hits for 10k with no cooldowns, I just provided.
I also wouldn’t call DS “gated” in PvE. You basically never run out. If you ever feel like doing nothing but spamming 1 in DS you can do that pretty much indefinitely.

Jekkt.6045:

Flumek.9043:

Jekkt.6045:

pull on gs + gravedigger is also a setup

Maybe u could count how many times the skill fails in jebros hands idk but it looks as trash as our sidesteppable focus

if they dodge it then it’s already a good thing for you, even if they dodge the pull it means they can’t dodge gravedigger if they dodge a 2nd time. and as i have said many times, it’s still in beta so i’m sure anet will try to improve on clunky skills, they did so with revenant too they said.

If they dodge the pull, they don’t need to dodge Gravedigger. They’re out of range!

Jekkt.6045:

it’s still in beta so i’m sure anet will try to improve on clunky skills, they did so with revenant too they said.

Everyone here is on the edge because, given a.net history with necromancers, the most likely case is that we will get uncalled for nerfs and lackluster “buffs”. This can be already seen from the changes made between the specialization announcement and the gamescon streams. Kitten, they even nerfed the base profession to kill possible reaper skills – necro traits synergies even before allowing us to test the specialization. Add to that the slap in our face that were ele’s shouts vs reaper’s shouts cast times and cooldowns.

In my opinion the reaper will be dissected in BWE1, every fault pointed out and tons of dps calculations done. The necro forum will be filled with feedback, much rage at how bad reaper is, and tons of suggestions, same as revenant forum in the previous BWE. But while revenant will improve by leaps and bounds at every iteration, reaper will get the usual necro treatment: uncalled nerfs and cosmetic buffs.

I wish to be proven wrong, but it’s hard muster hope after years of necro “patches”.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Jekkt.6045:

Flumek.9043:

Jekkt.6045:

pull on gs + gravedigger is also a setup

Maybe u could count how many times the skill fails in jebros hands idk but it looks as trash as our sidesteppable focus

if they dodge it then it’s already a good thing for you, even if they dodge the pull it means they can’t dodge gravedigger if they dodge a 2nd time. and as i have said many times, it’s still in beta so i’m sure anet will try to improve on clunky skills, they did so with revenant too they said.

If they dodge the pull, they don’t need to dodge Gravedigger. They’re out of range!

not necessarily, you could also use gravedigger for the pull, it’s a cc after all so you can setup gravedigger you know.

Charblaze.6958:

Jekkt.6045:

it’s still in beta so i’m sure anet will try to improve on clunky skills, they did so with revenant too they said.

Everyone here is on the edge because, given a.net history with necromancers, the most likely case is that we will get uncalled for nerfs and lackluster “buffs”. This can be already seen from the changes made between the specialization announcement and the gamescon streams. Kitten, they even nerfed the base profession to kill possible reaper skills – necro traits synergies even before allowing us to test the specialization. Add to that the slap in our face that were ele’s shouts vs reaper’s shouts cast times and cooldowns.

In my opinion the reaper will be dissected in BWE1, every fault pointed out and tons of dps calculations done. The necro forum will be filled with feedback, much rage at how bad reaper is, and tons of suggestions, same as revenant forum in the previous BWE. But while revenant will improve by leaps and bounds at every iteration, reaper will get the usual necro treatment: uncalled nerfs and cosmetic buffs.

I wish to be proven wrong, but it’s hard muster hope after years of necro “patches”.

so what do you wanna do? kitten everywhere on the necro forum? that’s not gonna help, if you kitten of the dev the chances of achieving something are even less so stay constructive, a motivated dev is a better worker than one that gets a stomach ache whenever he thinks about visiting the necro forums.

i am an elementalist main but i loved my dervish back in gw1 so reaper is also quite important to me and i will be posting a big thread where i will talk about the reaper (and the tempest and the revenant in different threads) from a PvP POV. i will surely not be the only one, so the more the better as long as they stay constructive.

Jekkt.6045:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Jekkt.6045:

Flumek.9043:

Jekkt.6045:

pull on gs + gravedigger is also a setup

Maybe u could count how many times the skill fails in jebros hands idk but it looks as trash as our sidesteppable focus

if they dodge it then it’s already a good thing for you, even if they dodge the pull it means they can’t dodge gravedigger if they dodge a 2nd time. and as i have said many times, it’s still in beta so i’m sure anet will try to improve on clunky skills, they did so with revenant too they said.

If they dodge the pull, they don’t need to dodge Gravedigger. They’re out of range!

not necessarily, you could also use gravedigger for the pull, it’s a cc after all so you can setup gravedigger you know.

And dodge rolling moves them a distance. So yes, if they dodged the pull, they don’t need to dodge Gravedigger because they’re out of range.

they’re out of range but this gives you the opportunity to leap in with shroud 2 and finish them off with shroud 5

@Jekkt: They kittened plenty on revenant forum and not only they listened, they even acted upon it.

I’m not saying we should call a.net or specific devs names, insult them or other unpleasant things. I’m talking about being vocal about what’s bad, say why it’s bad, give some suggestions if you feel like it, and finally demand some long overdue replies and explanations.

Yeah, some complaints will be misplaced or wrong but it doesn’t mean that complaints are bad. Here an example that legitimate complaints do work: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Could-Robert-Gee-be-more-transparent-with-us/first#post5351757

Robert Gee reply gave me some hope for the future of the necromancer, but until I see changes or more replies on what he has in mind I won’t jump on the hype train. While I don’t trust a.net as a whole when it comes to the necromancer, I have some trust in Gee. Blood magic rework was good and needs only some polishing by touching up the numbers.

well i don’t think he’s gonna name you all the stuff he has on his mind, that’s just not the type of guy he seems to be but at least he did say that he has some notes about axe scepter and more.

in a perfect world i would like to have a dev that is in charge of 1-2 classes and is able to play them perfectly. in reality we maybe have devs that have a mere 100-200 matches on them. still gotta make the best out of it i guess.

If grouch can do what he did on stream, I’m optimistic for the reaper.

@Jekkt: Nor I’m asking him to do so. Just hearing he has plans for scepter got me exited since I’am a huge fan of condimacer even though it’s in a bad place. We are just asking for some hints about were we are heading, confirmation that we are being heard, and an insight on really questionable choices. Moreover they have community managers to do this job. Devs don’t have to be the ones replying every time since you have paid professionals to do it.

Charblaze.6958:

Moreover they have community managers to do this job. Devs don’t have to be the ones replying every time since you have paid professionals to do it.

To be fair, I don’t think I would really want Galie or Rubi posting here about the direction of the Necromancer. They’re great folks, but it’s not really something I feel is their place to be discussing. They have a ton of information to collect, distill, and distribute and invariably, they miss some good details and ideas. This is not only from player→dev, but also the other way around.

@Drarnor Kunoram: Good lord, I said R-E-P-L-Y-I-N-G.

• Gaile: Hi Gee, there is this long a*s thread about how axe s*cks. Players are getting annoyed. Do you know something that I can use for a reply?
• Gee: Yeah, I’ve read that thread. Tell them I’m keeping notes of their feedback and I plan to work on axe and scepter after the elite specializations are done.
• Gaile: Hi Necroforum, Gee is busy right now so he can’t reply directly. He is reading your feedback and keeping notes of ideas to improve axe and scepter after the elite spec are done.
• Necroforum: Hurrah!
  ———————-
• Gaile: Hi Gee, there is huge QQ about Chilling Darkness nerf. They are seriously questioning the reasons behind it.
• Gee: Thanks Gaile, I missed that thread. Here’s why we changed it…
• Gaile: Hi Necroforum, bla, bla, bla, bla.
• Necroforum: Bla, bla, bla, bla.

By now you should’ve got the picture and understand that I never proposed anything of what you thought. I don’t understand were you got the picture of CMs as a wall between devs and players, when their job is to make that communication easier, since devs are often too busy to reply .

Charblaze.6958:

@Drarnor Kunoram: Good lord, I said R-E-P-L-Y-I-N-G.

• Gaile: Hi Gee, there is this long a*s thread about how axe s*cks. Players are getting annoyed. Do you know something that I can use for a reply?
• Gee: Yeah, I’ve read that thread. Tell them I’m keeping notes of their feedback and I plan to work on axe and scepter after the elite specializations are done.
• Gaile: Hi Necroforum, Gee is busy right now so he can’t reply directly. He is reading your feedback and keeping notes of ideas to improve axe and scepter after the elite spec are done.
• Necroforum: Hurrah!
  ———————-
• Gaile: Hi Gee, there is huge QQ about Chilling Darkness nerf. They are seriously questioning the reasons behind it.
• Gee: Thanks Gaile, I missed that thread. Here’s why we changed it…
• Gaile: Hi Necroforum, bla, bla, bla, bla.
• Necroforum: Bla, bla, bla, bla.

By now you should’ve got the picture and understand that I never proposed anything of what you thought. I don’t understand were you got the picture of CMs as a wall between devs and players, when their job is to make that communication easier, since devs are often too busy to reply .

I stated the reason why: information gets lost in both directions due to the sheer volume Galie and Rubi are dealing with. I don’t expect dev responses often, but when we do get them, they’re as accurate as can be. I’m sure you’ve played “Telephone” before.

Bhawb.7408:

Kidel.2057:

heavy hits.

This is just factually inaccurate, it deals worse damage than Guard Hammer unless they very significantly boosted ratios, and everything we’ve seen so far says they didn’t.

No way, not even factoring reaper shroud (that hits like a truck).
And you can’t really compare it to Guardian, sice Reaper has much more survivability.

Relshdan.6854:

the reaper looks like kitten in anything but casual pve

You’re not forced to use GS.
Reaper (as any elite spec) is not supposed to make other weapons useless.
Reaper is traits+reaper shroud, and both are great. Shouts and GS are additional options.

Charblaze.6958:

@Jekkt: They kittened plenty on revenant forum and not only they listened, they even acted upon it.

That’s a bit stretching the truth. Tho officuial version (that I believe) is that they notived many things and the feedback made them get to a decision faster. Things like weaponswap were already internally discussed before the feedback about it, and there was a build ready for it.

Also Roy said yesterday on twitter that he’s also working on all elite specs, and all the devs are working on multiple classes. They’re all together, even on Revenant.

I disagree with reaper being strong..Sure shroud is nice, it looks cool and all but gs sux balls. And after all its a part of his spec along with utility skills.

As for revenant thing, we barely received anything other than damage boost as it was laughable bad and wep swap which some people dont asked for (like me.). Revenant still to sux due to lack of condi cleanses, many weak utility skills, sustain may be a bit better due to Shiro but still not even close to necro. Grass is always greener at the other side..

Revenant got around a 37% damage boost just from traits (devastation and invocation changes), not to mention Shiro and Sword, plus an average 60% boost to all the old weaponskills except mace that simply got more conditions (double or triple).
If it’s still not enough I’m sure it will be addressed. To me the problem with Revenant however is survivability.

A Necromancer can go around naked and still be way more resistant then Revenant

with 2 pulls,leap and chill it really has some nice potential to stick to the opponent.

nearlight.3064:

I think reaper will be great without a greatsword in pvp. I mean RS is a straight up impovement over normal DS since it gives you generally better skills that are much more fluid and not held back by clunky cast times, plus extremely high levels of stability, thats just amazing.

Wouldn’t say it’s an improvement. Just different.

And still much worse than Underwater Shroud.

Kidel.2057:

Revenant got around a 37% damage boost just from traits (devastation and invocation changes), not to mention Shiro and Sword, plus an average 60% boost to all the old weaponskills except mace that simply got more conditions (double or triple).
If it’s still not enough I’m sure it will be addressed. To me the problem with Revenant however is survivability.

A Necromancer can go around naked and still be way more resistant then Revenant

The revenant that we got to play in beta had weak numbers.

Numbers are easy to tweak and fix.

If you have access to the beta, look at skill interactions. Are the skills as easy To avoid completely as they look?

How is the staying power? If you hit like a limp noodle do you still have staying power?

Well almost every utility except Shiro’s (and maybe the displacement and elite for Mallyx) are useless. Not a matter of numbers, they’re simply worthless.

Kidel.2057:

Well almost every utility except Shiro’s (and maybe the displacement and elite for Mallyx) are useless. Not a matter of numbers, they’re simply worthless.

Maybe for the new PvE content.

Kidel.2057:

Well almost every utility except Shiro’s (and maybe the displacement and elite for Mallyx) are useless. Not a matter of numbers, they’re simply worthless.

It’s not like current braindead PvE builds pack so much amazingness in utilities. Reflect (check) and couple passives like Signets or Banners, maybe stealth, that’s it. I’m truly entertained, praise the Lord and designers, me be blow away!

Learn to use your imagination. Revenant’s utilities are bloody great tools. You just have to know how to use them.

Spending 50 energy for a taunt when Jade Winds has the same cost doesn’t require any imagination. You simply don’t have to use it

Kidel.2057:

Spending 50 energy for a taunt when Jade Winds has the same cost doesn’t require any imagination. You simply don’t have to use it

Only if both were on the same legend

Sorry, I’m not going to spend all my energy on a 2seconds taunt, since I also need energy for weaponskills.

You do realize this is the necro forum