Guild Wars 2

As you may or may not know, all movement skills are being standardized meaning that swiftness, cripple, chill, super-speed and such speed altering effects will not change the distance travelled by movement skills like rush, leap of faith, heartseeker etc. You can read the full article here

In pvp, every class and probably every single build has either teleports or leaps. Necromancers arguably have the lowest in-combat mobility today, but untill now we rarely made up for this lack by being able to cripple and chill our opponents. The reason I say rarely is cause the skills we need to land to inflict chill & cripple (Dark Path & Spinal Shivers etc) are extremely slow and somewhat clunky. Assuming we landed them at the right time, there was still no guarantee of catching up because of X-Y-Z axis teleports which completely negated our conditions.

Now with the reveal of the reaper specialisation, pve hopes went up undoubtedly. And about half the community was also hopeful for chill in pvp. With the announcement made last wednesday, both teleports and leaps will now be completely immune to our conditions. It’s like giving a class block skill, then making all weapons skills of other classes unblockable. So I ask you, is buffing what we don’t have access to and nerfing what we do best fair? By common knowledge necromancer is bottom-mid tier in pvp for obvious reasons that have been covered in hundreds of posts.

Bottom line is, this change discourages active play style and decreases outplay potential. I know a ton of effort went to standardize the leaps and dashes, but this is may already be the nail in the coffin for the reaper.

Edit: Spelling

I’m sick and tired of hearing all this reaper just got killed by this nerf. Yes this nerf sucks kitten, but have you taken a look at our incoming traits and current chill durations?? Even if they try to kite with a movement skill we should still be able to gap close just by running. The only class that will have a hard time to catch is great sword warriors and thieves.

Jelzouki.4128:

I’m sick and tired of hearing all this reaper just got killed by this nerf. Yes this nerf sucks kitten, but have you taken a look at our incoming traits and current chill durations?? Even if they try to kite with a movement skill we should still be able to gap close just by running. The only class that will have a hard time to catch is great sword warriors and thieves.

Of course I looked at new traits and skills. They’re all long casts except reaper’s shroud 1 is a beast. You also wont catch any medi guardian and d/d ele a staff mesmer with his Z-axis teleports. That leaves you with catching only engi and ranger, and the latter can kill you before you get there depending on terrain and LoS possibilities. As a necro main I’m primarily concerned about the reaper of course, which is why I wrote on this sub-forum. But the main idea of my post is trying to understand how a developer can make a game based on dodges and blinds which encourage counter-play but implement such a change after 3 years which discourages you to actually think and use your soft CC when it would be most effective.

reaper gets leaps on a short cooldown, basically you have a ride the lightning every 10s, tons of chill, a pull (2 if you take grasp), +25% speed in shroud, -91% movement condis (with hoelbrak and trait). tell me how anybody is going to kite that. if they use a teleport then just bring flesh wurm…

reaper won’t have any burst mobility but definitely good combat mobility and will be very hard to kite and to take down.

akaCryptic.2389:

Jelzouki.4128:

I’m sick and tired of hearing all this reaper just got killed by this nerf. Yes this nerf sucks kitten, but have you taken a look at our incoming traits and current chill durations?? Even if they try to kite with a movement skill we should still be able to gap close just by running. The only class that will have a hard time to catch is great sword warriors and thieves.

Of course I looked at new traits and skills. They’re all long casts except reaper’s shroud 1 is a beast. You also wont catch any medi guardian and d/d ele a staff mesmer with his Z-axis teleports. That leaves you with catching only engi and ranger, and the latter can kill you before you get there depending on terrain and LoS possibilities. As a necro main I’m primarily concerned about the reaper of course, which is why I wrote on this sub-forum. But the main idea of my post is trying to understand how a developer can make a game based on dodges and blinds which encourage counter-play but implement such a change after 3 years which discourages you to actually think and use your soft CC when it would be most effective.

I still don’t think you are putting everything into perspective. We can’t even catch d/d eles right now and medi gaurds are not hard to catch at all. Judges intervention requires a target. If you let an engi kill you from 1200 range you’re dumb for not gap closing onto him. It’s a dumb change but its not a game breaker for necro.

akaCryptic.2389:

As you may or may not know, all movement skills are being standardized meaning that swiftness, cripple, chill, super-speed and such speed altering effects will not change the distance travelled by movement skills like rush, leap of faith, heartseeker etc. You can read the full article here

This has already been brought up and discussed to death in Necro, PvP, and HoT forums, such as the thread below.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Movement-change-big-nerf-to-condi-necro/first#post5138796

Opening these new threads just starts discussion back at square one, repeating the same old stuff again and again.

You shouldn’t have gotten your hopes up to being with.

Chill Spam was on the #3 hit of the slow GS auto attack chain. As soon as players get used to fighting reapers, it was never going to land. (all enemies have to do us kite you for the 3 seconds before it disappears and it’s gone). Plus, no greatsword, no chill spam & wasted traits.

Plus the thief was already pretty much immune to chill. The revenant is potentially mostly immune too.

That’s before you get into the fact that the reaper doesn’t have some of te tools to properly fight in melee (blocks) and its stability is gated by reaper shroud. Plus no defense against and a bad on paper gap closer (again gated by RS) leaves you a sittng duck against range.

That why a bunch of us have been saying that necromancer is actually much better than reaper in Pvp and WvW.

Flesh wurm is a terrible teleport, it has a 1-second casting time, and if there is something between you and him now you’ll just end up with wurm gunk.

Death’s charge is a 6 second cool down yes, but it is still only 600 range compared to ride the lightning’s 1200. And you also have burning speed as well. Granted these are lengthy cool downs, but you’ll still have a 600 range advantage on us even if we start at the exact same position. Which conveniently is the range or greatsword 5 pull has, and then you have to factor in its casting time.

Warriors can cover 1650 distance in 3 seconds if they use whirling attack and rush, so we can just forget about ever catching them anymore if they have a greatsword equipped.

But this isn’t really the biggest problem with the change. Right now to use a movement skill, to break even, you need to not have crippled or chill on you. If you use it, you’ll not get the full effect. So essentially this means you’d need to cleanse, then dash, and that cleanse can be interrupted. Now though, you can just dash and then cleanse. And this affects reaper so much because the entire specialization, is based around using chill to lock down our enemies. All this change does is remove the reward/punishment (depending on if you’re the applier or receiver) of having chill or cripple on a foe who tries to use a dash. Mobility is already crazy strong in this game so this change really makes no sense whatsoever.

However, my entire point is moot IF having chill or cripple makes it take longer to get to your destination. If that is the case this could be seen as a buff to cripple and chill. Sorry I didn’t touch in the whole swiftness aspect, but the same arguement can be applied I think, just swap out cripple/chill.

i would take dash 600 range every 5s (with trait) a thousand times over 40s 1200 range rtl… it’s just a different way of using your movement skills rather than just rushing out and that’s it. while on ele you just gtf-out and everything is on cooldown on reaper it will be more of a constant putting distance/reducing distance between you and the enemy.

and as i said before, with the proper traits movement reducing conditions will not have any effect on you so you’re more or less an unstoppable force like they described that never stopping movie monster.

Dash every 6s (5s) is going to be a great improvement.

Consider we can get a lot more dashes out than RTL. Also rate of travel is identical, RTL gives 600 unit per second. Mind you they add blink to the mix but lets compare apples to apples.

It’s not a dash every 6/5s. It’s a dash based around your life force and RS cooldown. You may chase an enemy around the map with the Death Charge but if you have no life force you are in no position to fight. Swapping in and out RS means not only do you put your RS on cooldown you made your dash skill a 10/7 cooldown dash (while still having a life force cost).

Regardless of what is done a reaper will manage to chill you. Sure it wont effect leaps but it depends on situation and movement speed is relative anyways. It still wont take you long to catch up to someone regardless of if they dash now because their dashes, and all dashes in the game, are their fixed range.

Seriously are people still moaning about this and not thinking about it… If dots n dashs weren’t happening then Reaper would be OP as he11.
We dish out tons of chill and other effects… for the enemy to not get away would basically mean you’d have to range us to deal with us..
And we’re not rooted.. we can walk run and travel as well.. Plus they will still be chilled… We’re not doomed.. we’re not screwed.. you just have to be a smart player instead of mashing skills in one place..

HardRider.2980:

Seriously are people still moaning about this and not thinking about it… If dots n dashs weren’t happening then Reaper would be OP as he11.

I doubt that is the case even if it was so, it was a problem of the reaper not chill and certainly noy cripple.

We dish out tons of chill and other effects… for the enemy to not get away would basically mean you’d have to range us to deal with us..

Of course the reaper does dish out tons of chills because we are devoted around. Nefing necause we are devoted around it would be stupid. Also we need to have lots of chill to make it stick because chill is the second most easiest condition to remove. Also never heard of teleports, shadowsteps,…?

And we’re not rotted.. we can walk run and travel as well.. Plus they will still be chilled… We’re not doomed.. we’re not screwed..

It’s still stupid design, they made reaper with the thought of keeping the enemy close with your chills, we even got a close range deathshroud. Base necromancer was made with low mobility because of cripple and chill and then they negate that advantage.

you just have to be a smart player instead of mashing skills in one place..

The same could be said about the foe.