The originally previewed shouts looked awful. Little effect, long cast time, long recharge.
Did the elite shout have that much stability before? (2 stacks for 10s. Wasn’t it resistance before?).
Here is what I would like the elite shout to be. I note that flesh golem charge has 2 sec knockdown on 45 second cooldown. Just give me that in shout form.
Shouts with cast times at all are so unfortunate. Also note how Chilled To The Bone is very nearly identical to the Revenant Jade Winds. They could have been so much more creative here.
Good catches on the slight changes, though.
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Suffer is still bad. Better to just run Plague Signet. At minimum, Suffer needs to transfer 2 conditions per hit to compete.
Chilled to the Bone is too long of a cast. I know they’re proud of the animation they did, but it’s a weaker Jade Wind with double the cast time and 12 times the effective cooldown.
Suffer is garbage. Anet will probably go with the lame route and buff it to 2 conditions instead of 1.
I’d rather see it have an additional effect. AOE fear would make it viable. Or make it a chain skill where the first time you shout, you draw 1 condition from up to 5 nearby allies and the second time you shout you transfer up to 5 conditions to opponent(s). If 1 opponent, he gets all 5. If 5 opponents, they get 1 each, etc.
Would like to see changes like that to all the shouts, personally. Having them only be good if there’s 5 players is horrible design. Even just AOE fear would make it good enough for 1v1.
Shouts with cast times at all are so unfortunate. Also note how Chilled To The Bone is very nearly identical to the Revenant Jade Winds. They could have been so much more creative here.
Almost identical yet Jade Winds has no cool down (high energy cost) and a 1 second cast time. And CttB has a 120 second cool down and a 2 second cast time. Is that not just so incredibly awkward that its just hilarious? Even with the energy cost you can use jade wind way more frequently. And its so much better simply because of the low cast time and similar damage.
Shouts with cast times at all are so unfortunate. Also note how Chilled To The Bone is very nearly identical to the Revenant Jade Winds. They could have been so much more creative here.
Almost identical yet Jade Winds has a 50 second cool down and a 1 second cast time. And CttB has a 120 second cool down and a 2 second cast time. Is that not just so incredibly awkward that its just hilarious?
Ahh jade wind doesnt have a cooldown the 50 are the energy costs^^
Whoa 50 energy for jade winds? Ok I know you can potentially cast it twice but you do that, you’re gonna have no energy left to attack with. So…yeah I can see why they think jade winds is inferior. But I still think CTTB needs a cast time reduction, and maybe a coolsown reduction to 90 seconds.
A knight in shining armor is a man who never had his metal truly tested.
Whoa 50 energy for jade winds? Ok I know you can potentially cast it twice but you do that, you’re gonna have no energy left to attack with. So…yeah I can see why they think jade winds is inferior. But I still think CTTB needs a cast time reduction, and maybe a coolsown reduction to 90 seconds.
Check out this thread and you’ll see a better comparison. In addition, if you’ve played with Revenant to really get the class feature you’ll see that casting it twice isn’t as bad as you think. You can cast it 7-8 times in the time it takes to do 1 CttB and still have energy to DPS with swords (or use other legends for other purpose in the down time).
It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.
Whoa 50 energy for jade winds? Ok I know you can potentially cast it twice but you do that, you’re gonna have no energy left to attack with. So…yeah I can see why they think jade winds is inferior. But I still think CTTB needs a cast time reduction, and maybe a coolsown reduction to 90 seconds.
Check out this thread and you’ll see a better comparison. In addition, if you’ve played with Revenant to really get the class feature you’ll see that casting it twice isn’t as bad as you think. You can cast it 7-8 times in the time it takes to do 1 CttB and still have energy to DPS with swords (or use other legends for other purpose in the down time).
….facespike I forgot about you getting 50% energy back on lengend swap! Yeah, I’ll take back what I said. This might get a bit ridiculous.
A knight in shining armor is a man who never had his metal truly tested.
Is that a Stability skill on a 2 second cast?
Mesmer and thief- “Oh look, he’s about to get stability. Lemme just pop my interrupt. Good thing their skill gives me all the time in the world to do so.”
Anet missed the flaw of the horror movie monster design in that most of the classes in gw2 would faceroll a horror movie monster.
Is that a Stability skill on a 2 second cast?
Mesmer and thief- “Oh look, he’s about to get stability. Lemme just pop my interrupt. Good thing their skill gives me all the time in the world to do so.”
Anet missed the flaw of the horror movie monster design in that most of the classes in gw2 would faceroll a horror movie monster.
Before casting this skill You should secure Your cast, so You need to pop DS 3 for Stability and then CTTB for more stab, tbh it’s quite ridiculous. Cast time and cd should be reduce to 1s and 90s
I’m a little worried that with the addition of stab to “Chilled to the Bone” and “You’re all weaklings”, they may have done something to the stability on Infusing Terror. That would be monumentally irritating, especially seeing as that is the best source of stability for smaller fights.
I’m a little worried that with the addition of stab to “Chilled to the Bone” and “You’re all weaklings”, they may have done something to the stability on Infusing Terror. That would be monumentally irritating, especially seeing as that is the best source of stability for smaller fights.
I wouldn’t be. In the initial Reaper reveal, they had stated that YAAW had been changed to a stunbreak and gained a stack of stability like Well of Power, but the displayed tooltips didn’t show it because that change happened after recording. Chilled to the Bone, they also said during the Reaper reveal would probably change from Resistance to Stability.
I’m a little worried that with the addition of stab to “Chilled to the Bone” and “You’re all weaklings”, they may have done something to the stability on Infusing Terror. That would be monumentally irritating, especially seeing as that is the best source of stability for smaller fights.
I wouldn’t be. In the initial Reaper reveal, they had stated that YAAW had been changed to a stunbreak and gained a stack of stability like Well of Power, but the displayed tooltips didn’t show it because that change happened after recording. Chilled to the Bone, they also said during the Reaper reveal would probably change from Resistance to Stability.
Oh yea, i had forgotten the part about stability, thanks
Biggest problem I see with these is CttB is still 2s cast time when it should be 1s, just like the other comparable elites.
NCSY however is really strong now, I think it is solid as is.
Suffer! also still needs adjustments. But I’m not surprised they aren’t fixed, unless this WvW beta is the most recent iteration they have on the changes I wouldn’t be surprised if they have a lot going on in the background still.
Not really. 5 blasts requiring 5 targets. In most situations you wont get that. And well on a lot of fields its not that strong. And in other cases the number of blasts is already completely covered by teammates. So no i dont think its broken.
There are plenty of things in the game already that could easily be considered insanely broken. And they are certainly more powerful than a situational 5 blast skill on a class which has a lack of fields. Icebow, lightning storm, meteor shower are some good examples. Then theres phalanx strength trait. The sheer number of blasts ele has on its weapons. Timewarp now that it has slow. Ring of Earth for projectile defence. Mimic… You get the idea.
Not really. 5 blasts requiring 5 targets. In most situations you wont get that. And well on a lot of fields its not that strong. And in other cases the number of blasts is already completely covered by teammates. So no i dont think its broken.
You’d have up to 25 blasts across your skills, many of them on lower CDs than single blast finishers in those situations, it is absolutely 100% undeniably broken, and the only way it wouldn’t be is if they completely gutted the shouts.
There are plenty of things in the game already that could easily be considered insanely broken. And they are certainly more powerful than a situational 5 blast skill on a class which has a lack of fields. Icebow, lightning storm, meteor shower are some good examples. Then theres phalanx strength trait. The sheer number of blasts ele has on its weapons. Timewarp now that it has slow. Ring of Earth for projectile defence. Mimic… You get the idea.
1. Those are only broken in PvE, your suggestion would be broken in everything
2. You don’t balance a game by making everything awfully designed/balanced, your suggestion would just be Dumbfire 2.0 and would end with shouts being worthless.
I’m still annoyed that they think a short duration chill and a couple seconds of stability is grounds for such an enormous cast time AND ridiculous cooldown.
Compare it to Guardians “Feel My Wrath”, dear God…Quickness AND Fury to ALL party members on a 30 second cooldown?!
Related, but does it really take 2 seconds to shout “Chilled to the Bone”? Way to break the immersion Anet…
I’m still annoyed that they think a short duration chill and a couple seconds of stability is grounds for such an enormous cast time AND ridiculous cooldown.
Compare it to Guardians “Feel My Wrath”, dear God…Quickness AND Fury to ALL party members on a 30 second cooldown?!
Related, but does it really take 2 seconds to shout “Chilled to the Bone”? Way to break the immersion Anet…
I wonder if the shouts will actually match the cast time.
“Chilled to the booooooooone”
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
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Not really. 5 blasts requiring 5 targets. In most situations you wont get that. And well on a lot of fields its not that strong. And in other cases the number of blasts is already completely covered by teammates. So no i dont think its broken.
You’d have up to 25 blasts across your skills, many of them on lower CDs than single blast finishers in those situations, it is absolutely 100% undeniably broken, and the only way it wouldn’t be is if they completely gutted the shouts.
There are plenty of things in the game already that could easily be considered insanely broken. And they are certainly more powerful than a situational 5 blast skill on a class which has a lack of fields. Icebow, lightning storm, meteor shower are some good examples. Then theres phalanx strength trait. The sheer number of blasts ele has on its weapons. Timewarp now that it has slow. Ring of Earth for projectile defence. Mimic… You get the idea.
1. Those are only broken in PvE, your suggestion would be broken in everything
2. You don’t balance a game by making everything awfully designed/balanced, your suggestion would just be Dumbfire 2.0 and would end with shouts being worthless.
I didnt mean on all the shouts. I just meant one of them lol. The shouts are already gutted so yeah…
Here’s a suggestion for Chilled to the Bone: Replace the Stability with 2 seconds (per target hit) of a buff that increases your Chill’s recharge rate reduction to 100%. If you hit 5 targets with it, it means that for the next 10 seconds, people you have chilled don’t recover cooldowns without a friendly Chronomancer.
Powerful enough to justify the 2 second cast, but also with enough counterplay (cleansing the chill, of course, works) to not be unstoppable.
I didnt mean on all the shouts. I just meant one of them lol. The shouts are already gutted so yeah…
OH, well that changes everything yeah there could be a skill that has a kittenload of blast finishers, would actually be kinda cool. Wouldn’t mind that being a shout instead of Rise!
It does 4 things. Chill, stun, damage and grants stab. I would rather them remove some of the functionality and have it cast a little faster.
Anet would class this skill as “powerful” or “very strong” because it does 4 things.
Most of our skills will long cast times have long cast times since they seem to think this balances out the skill being functionally overloaded. You can already see this on axe #3 and focus #5.
It does 4 things. Chill, stun, damage and grants stab. I would rather them remove some of the functionality and have it cast a little faster.
Anet would class this skill as “powerful” or “very strong” because it does 4 things.
Most of our skills will long cast times have long cast times since they seem to think this balances out the skill being functionally overloaded. You can already see this on axe #3 and focus #5.
Supply crate is damage, stun, blast finisher, heal, regeneration, burn, immobilize, 1s cast time and many of those effects can’t be mitigated by simply dodging since half of them don’t affect you immediately if at all.
CttB needs a 1 second cast time, and it honestly is probably fine with that adjustment alone, not too strong or weak.
You can mitigate almost all of supply crate, mostly depends on which direction you dodge in and when you avoid the stun or not. Matters not because comparing one skill to another without the whole kit considered is a bit pointless. Apples and oranges.
Again , Cttb, its still overloaded and anet is being careful with chill considering how powerful the condition can potentially be. Its hard to tell because no real builds at the moment put out enough chill constantly to feel its effects for too long. But it triples skill cooldowns while under its effects. I wouldnt agree with a 1s cast time rather 1.25s same as spinal shivers.
You can mitigate almost all of supply crate, mostly depends on which direction you dodge in and when you avoid the stun or not. Matters not because comparing one skill to another without the whole kit considered is a bit pointless. Apples and oranges.
Again , Cttb, its still overloaded and anet is being careful with chill considering how powerful the condition can potentially be. Its hard to tell because no real builds at the moment put out enough chill constantly to feel its effects for too long. But it triples skill cooldowns while under its effects. I wouldnt agree with a 1s cast time rather 1.25s same as spinal shivers.
Well you can also mitigate the effects of CttB so i dont really understand you point…
And i think 1.25 second casttime would still be bad like it is with spinal shivers but i would be fine if they removed some of the things CttB gives.
Not really. 5 blasts requiring 5 targets. In most situations you wont get that. And well on a lot of fields its not that strong. And in other cases the number of blasts is already completely covered by teammates. So no i dont think its broken.
You’d have up to 25 blasts across your skills, many of them on lower CDs than single blast finishers in those situations, it is absolutely 100% undeniably broken, and the only way it wouldn’t be is if they completely gutted the shouts.
There are plenty of things in the game already that could easily be considered insanely broken. And they are certainly more powerful than a situational 5 blast skill on a class which has a lack of fields. Icebow, lightning storm, meteor shower are some good examples. Then theres phalanx strength trait. The sheer number of blasts ele has on its weapons. Timewarp now that it has slow. Ring of Earth for projectile defence. Mimic… You get the idea.
1. Those are only broken in PvE, your suggestion would be broken in everything
2. You don’t balance a game by making everything awfully designed/balanced, your suggestion would just be Dumbfire 2.0 and would end with shouts being worthless.
so…… how then would categorize other classes that have larger dps output coupled with much better survival skill in re to pvp? IE warriors, elem, mesmers?
Why is it that the necro cant seem to be on an even playing field? And as far as dhumfire 1.0— I had already left the game the first time so I don’t know what that was about— but how is that any different than what burn guardians and elemetalists are allowed to do right now?
I mention pvp because pve in this game is like WoW.
so…… how then would categorize other classes that have larger dps output coupled with much better survival skill in re to pvp? IE warriors, elem, mesmers?
I don’t deny that some professions are too strong. I don’t deny we have plenty of issues. But the way to fix Necromancer is not to give us things that are too strong, and especially not giving us single options that alone make us strong or OP on their own, at the cost of the rest of the profession remaining garbage.
We absolutely need work, but adding OP stuff isn’t the answer. In this specific case though what spoj was mentioning wasn’t OP, I just misunderstood him.
You can mitigate almost all of supply crate, mostly depends on which direction you dodge in and when you avoid the stun or not. Matters not because comparing one skill to another without the whole kit considered is a bit pointless. Apples and oranges.
Again , Cttb, its still overloaded and anet is being careful with chill considering how powerful the condition can potentially be. Its hard to tell because no real builds at the moment put out enough chill constantly to feel its effects for too long. But it triples skill cooldowns while under its effects. I wouldnt agree with a 1s cast time rather 1.25s same as spinal shivers.
Well you can also mitigate the effects of CttB so i dont really understand you point…
And i think 1.25 second casttime would still be bad like it is with spinal shivers but i would be fine if they removed some of the things CttB gives.
I never said you couldnt i said you could with supply crate. Talking about something totally different that was missed as you didnt include the post i quoted in your post.
It wouldnt be bad as it is with spinal shivers as the skill is far more potent. Spinal shivers should have a lower cast time as it is but thats a different topic.
Not really. 5 blasts requiring 5 targets. In most situations you wont get that. And well on a lot of fields its not that strong. And in other cases the number of blasts is already completely covered by teammates. So no i dont think its broken.
You’d have up to 25 blasts across your skills, many of them on lower CDs than single blast finishers in those situations, it is absolutely 100% undeniably broken, and the only way it wouldn’t be is if they completely gutted the shouts.
There are plenty of things in the game already that could easily be considered insanely broken. And they are certainly more powerful than a situational 5 blast skill on a class which has a lack of fields. Icebow, lightning storm, meteor shower are some good examples. Then theres phalanx strength trait. The sheer number of blasts ele has on its weapons. Timewarp now that it has slow. Ring of Earth for projectile defence. Mimic… You get the idea.
1. Those are only broken in PvE, your suggestion would be broken in everything
2. You don’t balance a game by making everything awfully designed/balanced, your suggestion would just be Dumbfire 2.0 and would end with shouts being worthless.
so…… how then would categorize other classes that have larger dps output coupled with much better survival skill in re to pvp? IE warriors, elem, mesmers?
Why is it that the necro cant seem to be on an even playing field? And as far as dhumfire 1.0— I had already left the game the first time so I don’t know what that was about— but how is that any different than what burn guardians and elemetalists are allowed to do right now?
I mention pvp because pve in this game is like WoW.
WoW in PvE is/was much more challenging than anything we’ve ever had in GW2, and I don’t even like WoW (dungeonwise, of course. Overworld PvE always is easy no matter the MMO. And yes, Silverwastes is easy, too).
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
