Guild Wars 2

Could the Reaper be the counter to the newly buffed mesmers?

Some things i got off the top of my head
Good scenario:
Chill really hurts mesmers, unlike thieves they are affected by it skill wise, and while they can teleport around, they cannot run away very fast…especially if you avoid the blink GS2 combo and you manage to get some chill on them…
Right now the typical GS/staff mesm has minimum 3 interrupts available at start, and a 4th after couple of seconds. Scenario: Use Nightfall, go into reapers shroud (maybe even with FitG), hit the stability skill (infusing terror i think was the name), use skill 2. Mesmer has possibly spent all his interrupts and hasnt stopped you yet. press ds3 again, fear+chill him, say he uses blink to go away, use ds2 and bring him back with spectral grasp or gs5. In that situation mesmer has blown almost all cooldowns, is chilled and near an angry reaper with ready life force and a big GS. You get the point, the unstoppable monster. Even if mesmer manages to get away, you swap to staff and put some condis in. There is also the stun in the RS5, and a shout to apply weakness in case you see him setting up burst. We could use a reveal on shouts btw^^
Problems:
Chronomancer with alacrity can counter the chill, he can speed up his interrupts if he gets away, and has some good possible ranged aoe damage from the wells (i dont remember if they are ground targeted). So a slow reaper with the slow debuff?? and vulnerable to the interrupts? not very fun. Also a mesmer could theoretically kite properly and never allow himself to be caught by the reaper. That requires very good play though, and if the mesmer keeps his distance, you can always LoS or go away.

Discuss!

I think it will be quite the opposite, no good mesmer will burn their interrupts when they are blinded, and while you have stab. With Gs, staff they will just kite you, avoiding all your highly telegraphed skills, and then burst you. I tend to think reaper, or at least greatsword, will be really weak in pvp, no amount of damage will make up for the fact that a brainddead sloth could dodge those skills. There might be a chance for reaper shroud, but I simply can’t see anything that is slow being strong in a gametype about being quick. That’s really sad because based on the damage coefficients spoj calculated greatsword won’t be good in pve either.

Both warrior and guardian hammer have had places in the meta and they are equally slow weapons. GS will be a perfectly fine weapon. Nobody will be able to everything forever like people think and will also be better cleave in team fights. Its only weakness is its prone to being kited, means rangers,mesmers and theives will be a real issue.

Mesmers chain so much distortion and dodges, then they spam illusions, teleports, and stealth on top of that. You’re lucky if you actually land anything in the first place. Doesn’t matter that the reaper has lots of chill or anything if you can’t hit the opponent.

They do, but if they burn some cooldowns and you get them chilled…mesmer condi removal wasnt that strong last time i checked. We will have a leap on a relative low cooldown, that can also prove useful against kiting

As soon as they fix mantras to cooldown when they end like every other skill then it will be a different story because not having to face 6 stuns will be better for literally everyone.

The way I find with mesmers is to los and force them to burn cooldowns then go in. It’s just dodging the burst that can be a bother but if they miss mirror blade its much better. Also because of their clones it actually makes using signet of leeching much more fun because you can et back around 6k hp with i t at best 1v1 a mesmer.

Also zapv because of its higher target cap and better aoe overall in any situation where you have more than 2 targets GS wins out over dagger.

I don’t think it will be a counter, nor a bad matchup, assuming both are appropriately balanced overall.

In general for PvP, I think (mobility + instant/fast skills) > slow but powerful attacks.

Too many dodges, invulns, blinds, interrupts, blocks and evade skills.

Pelopidas.2140:

They do, but if they burn some cooldowns and you get them chilled…mesmer condi removal wasnt that strong last time i checked. We will have a leap on a relative low cooldown, that can also prove useful against kiting

Dual mesmer/necro main here, I can share my thoughts.

Right now the most seen mesmer build in torunaments is mantra shatter, which has tons of condition removal. They get 2 AoE each time they cast the heal mantra (they have 3 charges) and clear 1 condition and have a small heal ranging 1-2K upon using a shatter skill. This build has a tad less burst, but more interrupts, so they’d probably have an advantage.

If the mesmer is PU zerk or CI, the reaper should have an advantage should they have >50-60% life force on hand, since that build will have no condi removal unless they give up portal (which screws their team over). Condi mesmer shouldn’t be too bad of a matchup as long as you land your transfers.

Chrono shatter, doesn’t look like it’ll have much in the way of condi removal unless it gives up dueling for inspiration, and even then it’ll be less than the typical mantra build since they’d only have 2 charges. Their main trump card will be continuum split, which will let them reset themeselves and their CDs, meaning that landing chill before they use the ult shatter is imperative.

Terrain also plays a big role. If they run staff/GS and you’re fighting on a point at forest, they can port up ledges easily at henge and keep. On the other maps the phase retreat spots are slightly less decisive (although khylo mid after being trebbed is dangerous). Since reaper will have pretty much no ports or real ranged pressure (unless full condi?) that will be the main thing to watch for. Landing the GS pull will be imperative.

I’m not as concerned about the slowness of the GS as much anymore, mainly because guardian hammer was really good on medi builds in the past meta (going so far as to being the counterpick for memsers and thieves, mesmer had no chance of beating a decent medi-hammer guard without staff kiting). Reaper will also be significantly tankier than medi guard (no block spam, but ehh) with much more condi pressure. The powerful cleave will destroy illusions very easily. If cele necro stays a thing, I think reaper will be in a good place with all the mightstacking from spite., and cele gives you enough tankiness to take on a mesmer comfortably in my experience with the current meta necro build.

So basically in my mind, it comes down to individuals strengths/weaknesses of each build, amount of life force (This is HUGE) and whether or not the terrain allows for tele-port kiting.

Sigmoid.7082:

As soon as they fix mantras to cooldown when they end like every other skill then it will be a different story because not having to face 6 stuns will be better for literally everyone.

The way I find with mesmers is to los and force them to burn cooldowns then go in. It’s just dodging the burst that can be a bother but if they miss mirror blade its much better. Also because of their clones it actually makes using signet of leeching much more fun because you can et back around 6k hp with i t at best 1v1 a mesmer.

Also zapv because of its higher target cap and better aoe overall in any situation where you have more than 2 targets GS wins out over dagger.

That’s seemingly working as intended actually.

As for the topic, I’m fairly positive minion master reaper will be the tankiest and most difficult spec for most professions to deal with

I think I would be fair in saying that mesmer is more heavily based to dueling than any other class (we even have a trait line for that), heck our specialization is around gaining aoes. By contrast a necro is one of the most aoe heavy classes in the game, you guys can excel in areas mesmers can only dream of.

Please don’t suggest balances around 1v1s. I would prefer to not tie my damage to things that explode at the slightest damage. I would enjoy aoe wrecking people without relying on bounces or dodge rolls. Just remember this as the thread goes on. 1v1 duels in pvp are not the only thing that exists.

Sigmoid.7082:

Both warrior and guardian hammer have had places in the meta and they are equally slow weapons. GS will be a perfectly fine weapon. Nobody will be able to everything forever like people think and will also be better cleave in team fights. Its only weakness is its prone to being kited, means rangers,mesmers and theives will be a real issue.

Warrior hammer isn’t that slow of a weapon, and has ample cc so if you land one of the ccs you can get a combo off. Guardian is similar except you can also port in with JI, and several other instants that help offset the slowness. Also, the major damage is from mighty blow which is a full half second faster than gravedigger. All the big damage skills are really easy to avoid on reaper, so, despite the good damage, it will get eaten alive by classes with a lot of dodges, blinds, and blocks. I think they tried to counter this by giving it a pulsing field, but you’ll just bait that then blow them up. Maybe I’m wrong and it will be super strong, but I see no way it will beat mesmers who have all the tools needed to counter reapers (boon removal, interrupts, and ranged damage).

zapv.8051:

Sigmoid.7082:

Both warrior and guardian hammer have had places in the meta and they are equally slow weapons. GS will be a perfectly fine weapon. Nobody will be able to everything forever like people think and will also be better cleave in team fights. Its only weakness is its prone to being kited, means rangers,mesmers and theives will be a real issue.

Warrior hammer isn’t that slow of a weapon, and has ample cc so if you land one of the ccs you can get a combo off. Guardian is similar except you can also port in with JI, and several other instants that help offset the slowness. Also, the major damage is from mighty blow which is a full half second faster than gravedigger. All the big damage skills are really easy to avoid on reaper, so, despite the good damage, it will get eaten alive by classes with a lot of dodges, blinds, and blocks. I think they tried to counter this by giving it a pulsing field, but you’ll just bait that then blow them up. Maybe I’m wrong and it will be super strong, but I see no way it will beat mesmers who have all the tools needed to counter reapers (boon removal, interrupts, and ranged damage).

Hammer is no faster than reaper GS. If those two weapons are slow then neither is reaper GS. I think people exagerate exactly how slow and easily avoidable the weapon is. Especially warrior hammer which is just as susceptible to blinds, blocks, invuln. I dont trust cast times on skills because they are deceptive, there is after cast and all sorts. Some animations also last way longer than their cast bar. Take necrotic grasp for instance, has a 0.75 cast time but in reality you only get 1 attack every 1.4s because of after cast and animation.

It all depends on how you look at it. If you look at it as “as another class how can i beat a reaper” opposed to “as a reaper how do i beat another class” you see different things. But by no means is there a 100% chance one will beat the other.

Really hard to guess this match-up but I see it like this for sPvP atleast:

Fighting on Points I clearly give the edge to the Reaper with GS + New SHroud

Fighting anywhere else I have to give the edge to the Mesmer, movement just wins and Reaper tho we get Relentless Pursuit wont be enough.

Maybe, maybe not. Until Chronomancer comes out. Then we’ll be right back where we started.

The reaper (at least greatsword) is going to get eaten alive by pretty much everybody. I do not have high hopes for the specialization.

As for OP, what about the reaper is going to stop a Mesmer from hiding in invisibility, popping out 2-3 clones in less than 1 second, and hitting GS 2 & shatter that same instant?

if he is close nightfall would help wouldnt it? And FitG + RS3 is enough stability uptime to get close
And some chill on him will delay the burst frequency. also getting reveal on a skill would be nice

Azure.8670:

As for the topic, I’m fairly positive minion master reaper will be the tankiest and most difficult spec for most professions to deal with

Really? Death/Blood/Soul MM is pretty tanky.

I am trying to figure out how an MM reaper could be more tanky. I assume you are giving up blood? So you would be Death/Soul/Reaper. But I am not really convinced that Reaper is more tanky than Blood is.

“The reaper (at least greatsword) is going to get eaten alive by pretty much everybody. I do not have high hopes for the specialization.”

I do NOT think this at all, on paper Id say immediately its an improvement vs all Melee classes, DD Ele included, tho it may loose ground vs Mesmer & LB Ranger and obvious Skill adaptation has to be used to counter a best you can but overall and still on paper Id say Reaper is a definate boost to Necro vs most Classes.

But diffrent opinons is always good.

Ravezaar.4951:

“The reaper (at least greatsword) is going to get eaten alive by pretty much everybody. I do not have high hopes for the specialization.”

I do NOT think this at all, on paper Id say immediately its an improvement vs all Melee classes, DD Ele included, tho it may loose ground vs Mesmer & LB Ranger and obvious Skill adaptation has to be used to counter a best you can but overall and still on paper Id say Reaper is a definate boost to Necro vs most Classes.

But diffrent opinons is always good.

Also I think it’s important to note that the GS will be really string in teamfights because high damage cleave seems really good. Likewise it may be less effective in 1v1s against enemies that can kite, block, blind, and evade spam, but RS and d/wh wouldn’t have that issue. RS looks like it will ebe strong in both 1v1s and teamfights.