Reason Reaper Shroud feels Squishy
Like Life transfer, the RS AA regens more per enemy hit. But life transfer could be done from range while you don’t take too much pressure and thus actually regenerate the shroud efficiently. With RS, if you hit 5 enemies you’re probably taking massive damage.
So yes, the AA should have a higher sustain.
Lifestransfer doesn’t make death shroud tanky at all, it’s just an illusion, it buys you an extra few seconds at best when being pressured. This is with necros playing Death Shroud like a ranged caster.
Reaper Shroud feels squishy because we’re playing them like a frontline melee. But Reaper offers no invulns, reflects, blocks, knockdowns, knockbacks, reliable immob, etc.. By all rights we should feel squishy, that’s because we are. Playing frontline and being in middle of all the crap will cut through your shroud faster than playing death shroud like a ranged caster.
Death Shroud doesn’t even have access to Blighter’s Boon. Realistically Reaper Shroud actually gains lifeforce much better and faster than any other necro builds. Even if you run out of lifeforce, I’ve gone from 1-100% lifeforce within 5 seconds due to Blighter’s Boon.
Gavyne is correct. Realistically, reaper shroud ends up being better at sustaining than death shroud due to pulsing stability on a low cool down, access to a disengage that doesn’t require you hitting a target (unlike Dark Path), and blighters boon.
But because Reaper Shroud is melee, necromancer’s low armor and inability to heal effectively within reaper shroud becomes more obvious.
Either your health and LF are high but you do no damage, or your damage is decent but your LF melts in a matter of a couple seconds. It’s one or the other thanks to how mandatory the Soul Reaping line is to Reapers. (we already must be in melee range to do damage. Must we really have our LF deplete by 4% every second unless traited ??)
(edited by apoidea.7095)
Lifestransfer doesn’t make death shroud tanky at all, it’s just an illusion, it buys you an extra few seconds at best when being pressured. This is with necros playing Death Shroud like a ranged caster.
Reaper Shroud feels squishy because we’re playing them like a frontline melee. But Reaper offers no invulns, reflects, blocks, knockdowns, knockbacks, reliable immob, etc.. By all rights we should feel squishy, that’s because we are. Playing frontline and being in middle of all the crap will cut through your shroud faster than playing death shroud like a ranged caster.
Death Shroud doesn’t even have access to Blighter’s Boon. Realistically Reaper Shroud actually gains lifeforce much better and faster than any other necro builds. Even if you run out of lifeforce, I’ve gone from 1-100% lifeforce within 5 seconds due to Blighter’s Boon.
I have to totally disagree.
i been playing inside RS for a bit in SPvP. And have experience in same close range SPvP fights using DS. No time have i been this badly bursted down.
Again no way does Auto Attack(even in AoE cleave situations) did my RS auto-attack generate as much life force as Life Transfusion.
I challenge anybody to test that. LT burst life force is serious business that wasnt well replaced.
You probably should’ve mentioned you were talking about sPvP. The only downside to Blighter’s Boon is that it isn’t as good when it comes to sPvP. It is however awesome when you’re in GvG, ZvZ, or with any class that can stack you with boons.
Blighter’s Boon is basically niche crap, only gets good on a zerg fight where ironically you are at your weakest with no teleports/stealth/invulnerability/self healing.
It’s the same with greatsword, they basically repeated the same mistake they did with axe and scepter. Tying life force generation to a single attack source is just bad, if you get cc’d/enemy dodges that attack, you generate no life force.
Staff with marks trait should have been the baseline for other weapons. Your autoattack generates a bulk of your life force, but your other skills also generate some. Signet of Vampirism also wouldn’t be so terrible if they reduced the ICD to 0.5 seconds and let it generate 0.5-1% LF per proc.
The strength of life transfer as well is that it required no conal facing, it hit everything around you, it hit stealthed targets so thieves couldn’t just stealth without punishment until your DS ran out, etc.
Question: has anyone checked if Reaper’s Shroud has the same damage reduction as Death Shroud?
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
I believe it feels squishy if you’re running GS without Soul Reaping staff and d/wh. I’m not joking I find a great difference from the reapers who do and don’t,about being melee it’s partially true since you have to be constantly in melee to regain LF but with DS you usually are as well or around 600 range I mean you are on the point right? Also it might be weakness Reaper doesn’t take curses at least the power ones from what I’ve seen so that also counts for something.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread
The Dhuumfire thread
(edited by Sagat.3285)
Question: has anyone checked if Reaper’s Shroud has the same damage reduction as Death Shroud?
Well i did test it on svanir in the mists and it seemed to work like the regular DS, also the same damage reduction.
I did test it, yes Reaper’s Shroud has the same damage reduction. Only change is it procs weapon swap, both on entry and exit (if you’re in long enough).
Only change is it procs weapon swap, both on entry and exit (if you’re in long enough).
Yeah that is a nice addition and base DS also should have it.
like I said, DS has a large burst Life Force regenerator. Reaper Shroud does not…
the Auto Attack is too weak for Life Force Regen in compared to incoming damage.
In PvE it may be perfect because NPC are stupid and can be controlled. In SPvP thats a no go. the focused incoming damage will burst down Reaper Shroud far faster than Death Shroud, because Death Shroud has a 27% Life Force burst to keep it up as long as possible.
Reaper Shroud only has 1% auto attack,,,,, which doesnt always hit. That needs 27 hits to be equal to Death Shroud’s 3 second 27% Life Force Regenerator…
Cant compare. in SPvP that is not going to save you!!!
Reaper Shroud only has 1% auto attack,,,,, which doesnt always hit. That needs 27 hits to be equal to Death Shroud’s 3 second 27% Life Force Regenerator…
I think your math is a bit off. According to the wiki (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_Transfer) life transfer gives up to 5% lifeforce also 25% with 5 targets. Reapershroud aa 3rd part is 1% LF per enemy and it can hit up to 5 enemies, So you would only need to hit 5 times with it to get the same LF as life transfer out of it, assuming of course you dont miss.
(edited by Muchacho.2390)
like I said, DS has a large burst Life Force regenerator. Reaper Shroud does not…
the Auto Attack is too weak for Life Force Regen in compared to incoming damage.
In PvE it may be perfect because NPC are stupid and can be controlled. In SPvP thats a no go. the focused incoming damage will burst down Reaper Shroud far faster than Death Shroud, because Death Shroud has a 27% Life Force burst to keep it up as long as possible.
Reaper Shroud only has 1% auto attack,,,,, which doesnt always hit. That needs 27 hits to be equal to Death Shroud’s 3 second 27% Life Force Regenerator…
Cant compare. in SPvP that is not going to save you!!!
Life Transfer definitely does not regenerate 27% LF. Even against 5 people, it shouldn’t regenerate that much. Not to mention, against most matchups in sPvP, your Life Transfer often gets interrupted easily while DS has no access to stability. This further shortens the amount of LF you get.
You get 5% LF on one target with Life Transfer. It takes 3.5 seconds to channel it. In that time, you degenerate a total of 14% LF (7% if you take Vital Persistence). Against anything other than 2-4 targets, the LF regeneration will do almost nothing. This is especially true considering you’ll lose all that regenerated LF almost instantly when facing 2-4 targets since DS has no stability to fight in outnumbered situations.
Life Transfer is NOT going to be the reason why DS “feels” more tanky than Reaper Shroud.
If you try using a more defensive oriented RS and change your playstyle accordingly, you’ll notice that RS has much higher defensive capabilities than you imply. Seriously, I’ve never been able to regenerate LF with such ease (Blighter’s Boon + YAAW/Spectral Armor/Well of Power).
Plague alone with Blighter’s Boon will give you almost 50% LF.
(edited by apoidea.7095)
like I said, DS has a large burst Life Force regenerator. Reaper Shroud does not…
the Auto Attack is too weak for Life Force Regen in compared to incoming damage.
In PvE it may be perfect because NPC are stupid and can be controlled. In SPvP thats a no go. the focused incoming damage will burst down Reaper Shroud far faster than Death Shroud, because Death Shroud has a 27% Life Force burst to keep it up as long as possible.
Reaper Shroud only has 1% auto attack,,,,, which doesnt always hit. That needs 27 hits to be equal to Death Shroud’s 3 second 27% Life Force Regenerator…
Cant compare. in SPvP that is not going to save you!!!
Life Transfer definitely does not regenerate 27% LF. Even against 5 people, it shouldn’t regenerate that much. Not to mention, against most matchups in sPvP, your Life Transfer often gets interrupted easily while DS has no access to stability. This further shortens the amount of LF you get.
You get 5% LF on one target with Life Transfer. It takes 3.5 seconds to channel it. In that time, you degenerate a total of 14% LF (7% if you take Vital Persistence). Against anything other than 2-4 targets, the LF regeneration will do almost nothing. This is especially true considering you’ll lose all that regenerated LF almost instantly when facing 2-4 targets since DS has no stability to fight in outnumbered situations.
Life Transfer is NOT going to be the reason why DS “feels” more tanky than Reaper Shroud.
If you try using a more defensive oriented RS and change your playstyle accordingly, you’ll notice that RS has much higher defensive capabilities than you imply. Seriously, I’ve never been able to regenerate LF with such ease (Blighter’s Boon + YAAW/Spectral Armor/Well of Power).
Plague alone with Blighter’s Boon will give you almost 50% LF.
again, try it out on the Dummies in the Mist. AoE attack them with Auto Attack. It doesnt generate Life Force as well as Life Transfer does. You can test this yourself. Remember as well, LT is 3 seconds,,,,
3 SECONDS….
like I said, DS has a large burst Life Force regenerator. Reaper Shroud does not…
the Auto Attack is too weak for Life Force Regen in compared to incoming damage.
In PvE it may be perfect because NPC are stupid and can be controlled. In SPvP thats a no go. the focused incoming damage will burst down Reaper Shroud far faster than Death Shroud, because Death Shroud has a 27% Life Force burst to keep it up as long as possible.
Reaper Shroud only has 1% auto attack,,,,, which doesnt always hit. That needs 27 hits to be equal to Death Shroud’s 3 second 27% Life Force Regenerator…
Cant compare. in SPvP that is not going to save you!!!
Life Transfer definitely does not regenerate 27% LF. Even against 5 people, it shouldn’t regenerate that much. Not to mention, against most matchups in sPvP, your Life Transfer often gets interrupted easily while DS has no access to stability. This further shortens the amount of LF you get.
You get 5% LF on one target with Life Transfer. It takes 3.5 seconds to channel it. In that time, you degenerate a total of 14% LF (7% if you take Vital Persistence). Against anything other than 2-4 targets, the LF regeneration will do almost nothing. This is especially true considering you’ll lose all that regenerated LF almost instantly when facing 2-4 targets since DS has no stability to fight in outnumbered situations.
Life Transfer is NOT going to be the reason why DS “feels” more tanky than Reaper Shroud.
If you try using a more defensive oriented RS and change your playstyle accordingly, you’ll notice that RS has much higher defensive capabilities than you imply. Seriously, I’ve never been able to regenerate LF with such ease (Blighter’s Boon + YAAW/Spectral Armor/Well of Power).
Plague alone with Blighter’s Boon will give you almost 50% LF.
again, try it out on the Dummies in the Mist. AoE attack them with Auto Attack. It doesnt generate Life Force as well as Life Transfer does. You can test this yourself. Remember as well, LT is 3 seconds,,,,
3 SECONDS….
Well that is not surprising considering the fact that Lifetransfer is more like burst LF, while the LF gain from RS auto is slower and more sustained due the fact that you cant spam lifetransfer. Infact spamming RS auto will give you more LF overtime then lifetransfer does.
like I said, DS has a large burst Life Force regenerator. Reaper Shroud does not…
the Auto Attack is too weak for Life Force Regen in compared to incoming damage.
In PvE it may be perfect because NPC are stupid and can be controlled. In SPvP thats a no go. the focused incoming damage will burst down Reaper Shroud far faster than Death Shroud, because Death Shroud has a 27% Life Force burst to keep it up as long as possible.
Reaper Shroud only has 1% auto attack,,,,, which doesnt always hit. That needs 27 hits to be equal to Death Shroud’s 3 second 27% Life Force Regenerator…
Cant compare. in SPvP that is not going to save you!!!
Life Transfer definitely does not regenerate 27% LF. Even against 5 people, it shouldn’t regenerate that much. Not to mention, against most matchups in sPvP, your Life Transfer often gets interrupted easily while DS has no access to stability. This further shortens the amount of LF you get.
You get 5% LF on one target with Life Transfer. It takes 3.5 seconds to channel it. In that time, you degenerate a total of 14% LF (7% if you take Vital Persistence). Against anything other than 2-4 targets, the LF regeneration will do almost nothing. This is especially true considering you’ll lose all that regenerated LF almost instantly when facing 2-4 targets since DS has no stability to fight in outnumbered situations.
Life Transfer is NOT going to be the reason why DS “feels” more tanky than Reaper Shroud.
If you try using a more defensive oriented RS and change your playstyle accordingly, you’ll notice that RS has much higher defensive capabilities than you imply. Seriously, I’ve never been able to regenerate LF with such ease (Blighter’s Boon + YAAW/Spectral Armor/Well of Power).
Plague alone with Blighter’s Boon will give you almost 50% LF.
again, try it out on the Dummies in the Mist. AoE attack them with Auto Attack. It doesnt generate Life Force as well as Life Transfer does. You can test this yourself. Remember as well, LT is 3 seconds,,,,
3 SECONDS….
Well that is not surprising considering the fact that Lifetransfer is more like burst LF, while the LF gain from RS auto is slower and more sustained due the fact that you cant spam lifetransfer. Infact spamming RS auto will give you more LF overtime then lifetransfer does.
Problem is the over time generation doesnt out pace the traited decay even while attacking AoE, and definitely not in SPvP setting where burst damage is everywhere, meaning less RS uptime.
this is why LT is so important. RS has nothing like it.
again, try it out on the Dummies in the Mist. AoE attack them with Auto Attack. It doesnt generate Life Force as well as Life Transfer does. You can test this yourself. Remember as well, LT is 3 seconds,,,,
3 SECONDS….
“Life Transfer makes DS ‘non-squishy?’ "
False. Life Transfer gives waaaay less LF than you seem to believe (check the math we corrected for you above ^).
You’re losing more and more credibility with each post. I have no idea what you are trying to argue anymore. As I stated earlier, Life Transfer is 3.5 seconds to channel, not 3.
This alone means that you will not even have a net gain of any LF after using it unless you use it on multiple targets. Even then, DS lacks STABILITY so you will get cc’ed hard while channeling. As such, Life Transfer is NOT the reason it feels like we can stay in DS longer than RS.
Of course if you want to talk about LF regeneration on dummies, which just stand there and don’t do anything (not simulating the sPvP environment at all), we can talk about that instead.
If you’re trying to argue that Reaper has less burst LF regeneration than DS, the mere existence of Blighter’s Boon proves you wrong. Like I said, Plague will give you almost 50% LF. You Are All Weaklings! will give you almost 25% LF on a much shorter CD (traited) than Life Transfer (traited).
(edited by apoidea.7095)
like I said, DS has a large burst Life Force regenerator. Reaper Shroud does not…
the Auto Attack is too weak for Life Force Regen in compared to incoming damage.
In PvE it may be perfect because NPC are stupid and can be controlled. In SPvP thats a no go. the focused incoming damage will burst down Reaper Shroud far faster than Death Shroud, because Death Shroud has a 27% Life Force burst to keep it up as long as possible.
Reaper Shroud only has 1% auto attack,,,,, which doesnt always hit. That needs 27 hits to be equal to Death Shroud’s 3 second 27% Life Force Regenerator…
Cant compare. in SPvP that is not going to save you!!!
Life Transfer definitely does not regenerate 27% LF. Even against 5 people, it shouldn’t regenerate that much. Not to mention, against most matchups in sPvP, your Life Transfer often gets interrupted easily while DS has no access to stability. This further shortens the amount of LF you get.
You get 5% LF on one target with Life Transfer. It takes 3.5 seconds to channel it. In that time, you degenerate a total of 14% LF (7% if you take Vital Persistence). Against anything other than 2-4 targets, the LF regeneration will do almost nothing. This is especially true considering you’ll lose all that regenerated LF almost instantly when facing 2-4 targets since DS has no stability to fight in outnumbered situations.
Life Transfer is NOT going to be the reason why DS “feels” more tanky than Reaper Shroud.
If you try using a more defensive oriented RS and change your playstyle accordingly, you’ll notice that RS has much higher defensive capabilities than you imply. Seriously, I’ve never been able to regenerate LF with such ease (Blighter’s Boon + YAAW/Spectral Armor/Well of Power).
Plague alone with Blighter’s Boon will give you almost 50% LF.
again, try it out on the Dummies in the Mist. AoE attack them with Auto Attack. It doesnt generate Life Force as well as Life Transfer does. You can test this yourself. Remember as well, LT is 3 seconds,,,,
3 SECONDS….
Well that is not surprising considering the fact that Lifetransfer is more like burst LF, while the LF gain from RS auto is slower and more sustained due the fact that you cant spam lifetransfer. Infact spamming RS auto will give you more LF overtime then lifetransfer does.
Problem is the over time generation doesnt out pace the traited decay even while attacking AoE, and definitely not in SPvP setting where burst damage is everywhere, meaning less RS uptime.
True it doesnt help much in spvp but with Vital Persistence the auto actually out paces the decay if you hit enough targets. But the thing is how much LF can you get out of life transfer before the stuns, interrupts etc come? And even if you get the full duration of lifetransfer off it will change less than you think in spvp.
(edited by Muchacho.2390)
like I said, DS has a large burst Life Force regenerator. Reaper Shroud does not…
the Auto Attack is too weak for Life Force Regen in compared to incoming damage.
In PvE it may be perfect because NPC are stupid and can be controlled. In SPvP thats a no go. the focused incoming damage will burst down Reaper Shroud far faster than Death Shroud, because Death Shroud has a 27% Life Force burst to keep it up as long as possible.
Reaper Shroud only has 1% auto attack,,,,, which doesnt always hit. That needs 27 hits to be equal to Death Shroud’s 3 second 27% Life Force Regenerator…
Cant compare. in SPvP that is not going to save you!!!
Life Transfer definitely does not regenerate 27% LF. Even against 5 people, it shouldn’t regenerate that much. Not to mention, against most matchups in sPvP, your Life Transfer often gets interrupted easily while DS has no access to stability. This further shortens the amount of LF you get.
You get 5% LF on one target with Life Transfer. It takes 3.5 seconds to channel it. In that time, you degenerate a total of 14% LF (7% if you take Vital Persistence). Against anything other than 2-4 targets, the LF regeneration will do almost nothing. This is especially true considering you’ll lose all that regenerated LF almost instantly when facing 2-4 targets since DS has no stability to fight in outnumbered situations.
Life Transfer is NOT going to be the reason why DS “feels” more tanky than Reaper Shroud.
If you try using a more defensive oriented RS and change your playstyle accordingly, you’ll notice that RS has much higher defensive capabilities than you imply. Seriously, I’ve never been able to regenerate LF with such ease (Blighter’s Boon + YAAW/Spectral Armor/Well of Power).
Plague alone with Blighter’s Boon will give you almost 50% LF.
again, try it out on the Dummies in the Mist. AoE attack them with Auto Attack. It doesnt generate Life Force as well as Life Transfer does. You can test this yourself. Remember as well, LT is 3 seconds,,,,
3 SECONDS….
Well that is not surprising considering the fact that Lifetransfer is more like burst LF, while the LF gain from RS auto is slower and more sustained due the fact that you cant spam lifetransfer. Infact spamming RS auto will give you more LF overtime then lifetransfer does.
Problem is the over time generation doesnt out pace the traited decay even while attacking AoE, and definitely not in SPvP setting where burst damage is everywhere, meaning less RS uptime.
this is why LT is so important. RS has nothing like it.
Except Life Transfer doesn’t out pace the traited decay either. Over 3.5 seconds you lose 7% LF and only gain 5% LF (per target). Oh and Life Transfer is on a 34-second cooldown (traited).
Meanwhile, RS Auto can achieve the same effect of gaining 5% LF per target in only 7.5 seconds.
And within the 34 seconds that it takes to recharge just one Life Transfer, RS can achieve a total of 23 auto attack chains.
If you’re trying to argue about the sPvP setting, then why in the world would you bring up the dummies in HotM. Especially since RS sustain would top DS sustain in that setting anyway.
If you’re arguing sPvP then how come you completely ignore the truth that people will 9 times out of 10 either interrupt Life Transfer or dodge/LOS it. Life Transfer is not the reason as to why DS feels like it can be camped more than RS no matter how you put it.
Also if you take Spite, along with Blighter’s Boon trait, RS 1 auto will stack might. Might stacking = boon stacking, which triggers more healthregen via Blighter’s Boon trait. I had taken Spite off during beta weekend but tried Spite tonight with Reaper, it was pretty glorious.
Spite also offers more might stacking outside of Reaper Shrouds, and it = more lifeforce pretty easily provided you can get people under 50%.
(edited by gavyne.6847)
Also if you take Spite, along with Blighter’s Boon trait, RS 1 auto will stack might. Might stacking = boon stacking, which triggers more healthregen via Blighter’s Boon trait. I had taken Spite off during beta weekend but tried Spite tonight with Reaper, it was pretty glorious.
Spite also offers more might stacking outside of Reaper Shrouds, and it = more lifeforce pretty easily provided you can get people under 50%.
That does not work while in Reaper Shroud… thats the whole point..
Also if you take Spite, along with Blighter’s Boon trait, RS 1 auto will stack might. Might stacking = boon stacking, which triggers more healthregen via Blighter’s Boon trait. I had taken Spite off during beta weekend but tried Spite tonight with Reaper, it was pretty glorious.
Spite also offers more might stacking outside of Reaper Shrouds, and it = more lifeforce pretty easily provided you can get people under 50%.
That does not work while in Reaper Shroud… thats the whole point..
Why does it matter so much to you that it doesn’t work in Reaper Shroud. Simply exit RS when you’re low on LF, regenerate it quickly with blighter’s boon, and pop up RS again.
Necromancer in sPvP is not meant to camp shroud forever. You cannot use utilities in shroud, therefore you are making yourself a less effective player by making staying in shroud for as long as possible your #1 priority.
You probably should’ve mentioned you were talking about sPvP. The only downside to Blighter’s Boon is that it isn’t as good when it comes to sPvP. It is however awesome when you’re in GvG, ZvZ, or with any class that can stack you with boons.
Lol, Blighter’s Boon gives you life force per boon gained from yourself or from allies around you. So a Full empower from a Guardian gives you 14% life force, that Ele/Tempest that spams all his boons and shares it with you with his warhorn? He just gave you full life force (or a bit of healing if you’re already in shroud) so you saying that Blighter’s boon isn’t good in SPvP, is you not knowing how good it is.
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You probably should’ve mentioned you were talking about sPvP. The only downside to Blighter’s Boon is that it isn’t as good when it comes to sPvP. It is however awesome when you’re in GvG, ZvZ, or with any class that can stack you with boons.
Lol, Blighter’s Boon gives you life force per boon gained from yourself or from allies around you. So a Full empower from a Guardian gives you 14% life force, that Ele/Tempest that spams all his boons and shares it with you with his warhorn? He just gave you full life force (or a bit of healing if you’re already in shroud) so you saying that Blighter’s boon isn’t good in SPvP, is you not knowing how good it is.
Oh I know Blighter’s Boon is good, it’s the OP that doesn’t get it. But I did mention that I think maybe Blighter’s Boon isn’t as strong in spvp as it is in GvG or ZvZ. I do think that’s true just because the amount of boons you’ll get in GvG/ZvZ is far more than spvp where you may be by yourself often.
High lifeforce degen, and not being able to get teammate heals doesn’t help.
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