Guild Wars 2

Dhuumfire
•Grandmaster trait
•100% chance to apply 4sec of burning on critical hit (10sec CD)

I’ve read that many people say it’s ‘broken’ – ‘outbalanced’ – …
What’s the reason behind this ? In my eyes I see: Another condition, medium damage on condition damage build increase, what did I miss ?

The reason most of us dislike it and even outright hate it, is even though it does lovely condition damage in a short amount of time.. It can be given out by loads of other players and because it doesn’t stack (for obvious OP reasons) it makes having that trait/condition extremely pointless.
Yer it’s good solo.. but in big events and party events.. its useless.. It’s a condition necros shouldnt and dont need.. lots are happy to have that trait replaced with another condition, either unique to necromancers or a condition that is worthy of that level trait.

I love it cause it make me OP as kitten. People hate it cause it’s procs so easily. It’s a skill less trait that anyone pressing 1 with a decent crit chance can pretty much keep fire on the enemy half the time. Also makes no sense with necro class. chill/weakness/ etc. are more in line with the class lore.

It’s a passive proc that activates at range, without a projectile, and instantly.

It’s completely overpowered and a model of how not to design a skill in this game, just like fear.

Unwanted, proc based skill which ended up by nerfing nearly everything about necro (survival, sustain, damage etc).

+1: Hating it because devs refuse to remove it from the game.

First people are arguing that we are underpowered, now we get a better conditon and still not good ?

Just so people really understand the context:

Pre-Dhuumfire Necromancers were only picked up in PvP teams if they were amazing players. Even some really, really amazing players had a very hard time playing Necro (Symbolic had to change to ranger, people who didn’t change just had a hard time finding teams). This was for a few reasons.

First off, all of our meaningful damage is done via Bleeding. Yes Terror and Poison add in a little DPS, but you don’t truly die because of those, its the bleeding that does it. Pre-patch, it was trivial to keep yourself fully cleansed and the bleed stacks would basically never stack up to a dangerous amount.

Second, we were very easy to focus down. If you had a Necro on your team, it was essentially guaranteed you had one player on the team whose job it was to make sure that Necro didn’t die. And even with this protection, we were generally outclassed by Engineers.

Engineers didn’t need to hide their conditions, they used Burning. A very high DPS condition that they could readily re-apply, along with tons of might stacking, and direct damage for “free”. Not only this, but they could fend for themselves. Even when Necros were run, they were often done so with an Engi that could “feed” them burning.

The Dhuumfire patch, though, changed a lot. Buff to scepter 1, Burning, Torment, better defensive tools, and teams were generally running less condi-removal spam than before. This meant our Bleeds now had 2-3 more cover conditions (poison got a massive boost in uptime due to scepter 1 buff), and thus were far harder to remove. All of a sudden, our Scepter 1 spam alone could put down heavy pressure on targets, not to mention our AoE bleed bursts that were very hard to deal with.

We went from Zero to Hero in a way. Dhuumfire was needed if we were going to be taken seriously pre-patch. But they put in way too much in that one patch.

I don’t hate Dhuumfire. I dislike that they have implemented it in the way they have.

Ugh, guard and ele can apply burning by just autoattack.. and necro have to spent 30 points

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Ugh, guard and ele can apply burning by just autoattack.. and necro have to spent 30 points

True that, but in my conditio build I run 30 into spite for some nice traits and +30% condition duration anyway :o

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Ugh, guard and ele can apply burning by just autoattack.. and necro have to spent 30 points

I don’t know alot about guards but I think they get 1 sec base duration on most of their burns.

Ele’s have a trait to proc a 1 sec burn on crit (30%) no matter the attunement and nobody takes it. Eles have great access to burning true but they don’t have enough cover conditions with good base durations for the long burns to even run their course. Also no S/D ele auto attacks in fire unless they messed up somewhere thats the only auto attack that burns(2 sec base) inherently.

It’s like fighting a Dagger/Dagger condi thief that just death blossoms sure he can put 25 stacks of bleeds with 16 duration but you won’t kill someone with just bleeds if they have a clue on how to play.

oZii.2864:

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Ugh, guard and ele can apply burning by just autoattack.. and necro have to spent 30 points

I don’t know alot about guards but I think they get 1 sec base duration on most of their burns.

Ele’s have a trait to proc a 1 sec burn on crit (30%) no matter the attunement and nobody takes it. Eles have great access to burning true but they don’t have enough cover conditions with good base durations for the long burns to even run their course. Also no S/D ele auto attacks in fire unless they messed up somewhere thats the only auto attack that burns(2 sec base).

It’s like fighting a Dagger/Dagger condi thief that just death blossoms sure he can put 25 stacks of bleeds with 16 duration but you won’t kill someone with just bleeds if they have a clue on how to play.

A Necro for example, can put this 25 stacks of bleed back to the owner with a couple of skills.. Bye bye thief !

Falcon.8713:

oZii.2864:

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Ugh, guard and ele can apply burning by just autoattack.. and necro have to spent 30 points

I don’t know alot about guards but I think they get 1 sec base duration on most of their burns.

Ele’s have a trait to proc a 1 sec burn on crit (30%) no matter the attunement and nobody takes it. Eles have great access to burning true but they don’t have enough cover conditions with good base durations for the long burns to even run their course. Also no S/D ele auto attacks in fire unless they messed up somewhere thats the only auto attack that burns(2 sec base).

It’s like fighting a Dagger/Dagger condi thief that just death blossoms sure he can put 25 stacks of bleeds with 16 duration but you won’t kill someone with just bleeds if they have a clue on how to play.

A Necro for example, can put this 25 stacks of bleed back to the owner with a couple of skills.. Bye bye thief !

if you didn’t miss it

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Falcon.8713:

oZii.2864:

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Ugh, guard and ele can apply burning by just autoattack.. and necro have to spent 30 points

I don’t know alot about guards but I think they get 1 sec base duration on most of their burns.

Ele’s have a trait to proc a 1 sec burn on crit (30%) no matter the attunement and nobody takes it. Eles have great access to burning true but they don’t have enough cover conditions with good base durations for the long burns to even run their course. Also no S/D ele auto attacks in fire unless they messed up somewhere thats the only auto attack that burns(2 sec base).

It’s like fighting a Dagger/Dagger condi thief that just death blossoms sure he can put 25 stacks of bleeds with 16 duration but you won’t kill someone with just bleeds if they have a clue on how to play.

A Necro for example, can put this 25 stacks of bleed back to the owner with a couple of skills.. Bye bye thief !

if you didn’t miss it

If my first attack (deadly swarm) misses I still got my putrid mark, if that misses to, I still have a small chance my sigil of generosity will activate , if this would still fail, I can eat all conditions with CC or remove them by going in DS, Necro got a genius way to control conditions and/or stacking them with huge amounts with lots of cover conditions !

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

Ugh, guard and ele can apply burning by just autoattack.. and necro have to spent 30 points

Ah yes, all those condi damage guardians… Burning is pretty much the only dps condition Guardians get and and Elementalists don’t have particularly good access to dps condis either. Meanwhile Necros get poison, torment, fear (when traited), and, of course, TONS of bleeding. Necros hardly need burning on top of all that to dish out ridiculous condition damage spikes, but hey, they get it anyway. With Dhuumfire, Necros can have access to 11 of the 12 conditions in GW2 all in one build, which is just insanity.

I don’t really hate it at all but it is in a trait tree i dont wish to invest in so much as a condition necromacer and because of its addition to our damaging conditions our bleed stacking ability is being “kept in check” or “shaved” a bit along with the nerf to terror’s damage. more nerfs are coming and they only serve to emphasize the need for burning to cover for the lost dmg bleed stacking and terror suffered from.

otherwise I cant say no to more sources of damage….especially with the new diamond skin elementalists will soon receive. 30 20 0 0 20 is more a hybrid than pure condition build which can deal with the new immunity to condition they will have. it might even make taking down elementalists even easier by then.

Engineer(which has heavy condition abilities like necro plus much more ccs) always had this trait before dhuumfire and no one bats an eye, give this trait to necro and everyone loses their minds. So much hate towards necros…

Fire & Life is wrong god lore wise.

The backwards idea of ‘burst damage over time’.

Nerf to fear, and bleed application to ‘balance’ it into the game. Hurting other spec’s that don’t use it.
50% duration in PvP.
Huge HUGE kick in the cat, for staff. Not only are they giving us less bleeds, but, putrid mark, only removes 3 condi now and not any off others. Removing our ‘role’ of condi-return. (Only real thing we did in the game that others didn’t do better.)

30 points in power tree, for a condition. (That other class’s get free as passive, or on weap attacks, also 50% duration makes it worst burning in game).

Proc on Crit:
- It won’t work on a world boss. (Issue with any on crit, and with our marks as the boss is classed as ‘a building’)
- It can’t be controlled so it’ll proc on a mob with 1% life left, or on a trash mob not on the big scary one behind it.
- It’s another ‘no skill to use’ it just happens.

Game wide condition issues. 1 Stack of burning, means your 50% one will remove full duration of others. Or a guard’s 3rd attack will auto-remove yours for example.

The BIG issue, that upset lots. It’s been added at same time as torment.
The issue here, and it’s main use, is… Stacking more conditions than can be cleansed.
This removes any balance of skilled play in the game. A simple, this has no counter, this is unfair & unfun.

I dislike dhuumfire for not what it does or how it does it, but for the sole fact that every Nerf to condition builds are balanced around this trait. As every patch passes, it becomes more mandatory to bring this trait in any build. Nerfing terror and bleeds kills build diversity. Now it seems every necro runs spite Sig and spectral armor while spamming scepter auto attack to proc burning.

^That is just how I feel about it right now.

WvW wise, I will likely no longer be able to reliably stack 15+ bleed stacks anymore on a target without cheap geomancry procs now that weakening shroud, our attrition tool vs power is getting a kick in the kitten thanks to our “access to burning”. But at least I could still over-stack bleeds on my warrior for insane ticks of 3.2k.

Dhuumfire lacks tells.
Like many other abilities it just happens to activate and ruins your day. No good gameplay comes from abilities like that. I am actually a big fan of the planned “makeover” and thought they would implement it like that in the first place.
And apart from its incorporation in lame dhuumfire builds i actually like the trait, it is one of the only things that pushes wacky hybrid builds, especially if you bring vampiric, over the edge of beeing totally miserable and making them kind of decent.

Also in regards to the theme of the necro and the addition of burning:
I don’t mind. I don’t think its unfitting. Perhaps the implementation lacks some fluff. If you look around and compare the necro to different archetypes in other games, be it tabletop or video, some of them use abilites like “burning/boiling blood”. It is a curse/blood magic thing in my book but w/e works for trait tree balancing.

I don’t use Dhumfire because it has a habit of going off when I not want it too, and also because the other trait is good.

I really don’t like…. Because warriors couldn’t handle burst conditions, all conditions are going o be nerfed into he ground, all new gear is going to favor power 3x more than conditions, new runes will obsolete conditions, new traits will grant condition immunity, and all non Dhumfire necromancer setups will be nerfed, even while the class has real problems in dungeons.

this trait will proc as long as you have a decent crit chance.

there is no counter play to this, no amount of dodging skills or condi cleanse can keep up every 10 seconds on top of what we already can dish out.

We do not need Burning to help out damage. I have very little trouble with 1v1 and sometimes 1v2-3 all without dumbfire. in group fights you cant pick and choose who gets burning so its a waste 30 trait points. if you want burning you have a 15s skill called epidemic where you can spread 10+ seconds of burning +all conditions to 5 other targets.

Bweaty.9187:

Fire & Life is wrong god lore wise.

The backwards idea of ‘burst damage over time’.

Nerf to fear, and bleed application to ‘balance’ it into the game. Hurting other spec’s that don’t use it.
50% duration in PvP.
Huge HUGE kick in the cat, for staff. Not only are they giving us less bleeds, but, putrid mark, only removes 3 condi now and not any off others. Removing our ‘role’ of condi-return. (Only real thing we did in the game that others didn’t do better.)

30 points in power tree, for a condition. (That other class’s get free as passive, or on weap attacks, also 50% duration makes it worst burning in game).

Proc on Crit:
- It won’t work on a world boss. (Issue with any on crit, and with our marks as the boss is classed as ‘a building’)
- It can’t be controlled so it’ll proc on a mob with 1% life left, or on a trash mob not on the big scary one behind it.
- It’s another ‘no skill to use’ it just happens.

Game wide condition issues. 1 Stack of burning, means your 50% one will remove full duration of others. Or a guard’s 3rd attack will auto-remove yours for example.

The BIG issue, that upset lots. It’s been added at same time as torment.
The issue here, and it’s main use, is… Stacking more conditions than can be cleansed.
This removes any balance of skilled play in the game. A simple, this has no counter, this is unfair & unfun.

There are enough anti-condi builds.. But next to that, it’s just what a necromancer is condi dealer ! , I don’t know why all hate it because of our little condi damage boost.. Engi got the same trait but way lower tier, you hate their burning to ? + mesmers, thieves and engis can also overstack confusion + other conditions.. You think they play unfair to ? It’s just away to build the profession..

Brando.1374:

this trait will proc as long as you have a decent crit chance.

there is no counter play to this, no amount of dodging skills or condi cleanse can keep up every 10 seconds on top of what we already can dish out.

We do not need Burning to help out damage. I have very little trouble with 1v1 and sometimes 1v2-3 all without dumbfire. in group fights you cant pick and choose who gets burning so its a waste 30 trait points. if you want burning you have a 15s skill called epidemic where you can spread 10+ seconds of burning +all conditions to 5 other targets.

I don’t get what you mean.. First you’re saying you don’t use burning and afterwards you’re talking about spreading it with epidemic ? Or do you mean in group play ? It’s not like other classes will go easy on you with their conditions , so why are we ‘unfair’ ? Ever seen that big aoe fire field of warrior longbow burst ? That’s what I call a real painfull problem.. Not some random 4s burning.. Even if didn’t have burning, we could still stack lots and lots of bleeding with scepter 1.. So you want that they change that to ?

Falcon.8713:

Brando.1374:

this trait will proc as long as you have a decent crit chance.

there is no counter play to this, no amount of dodging skills or condi cleanse can keep up every 10 seconds on top of what we already can dish out.

We do not need Burning to help out damage. I have very little trouble with 1v1 and sometimes 1v2-3 all without dumbfire. in group fights you cant pick and choose who gets burning so its a waste 30 trait points. if you want burning you have a 15s skill called epidemic where you can spread 10+ seconds of burning +all conditions to 5 other targets.

I don’t get what you mean.. First you’re saying you don’t use burning and afterwards you’re talking about spreading it with epidemic ? Or do you mean in group play ? It’s not like other classes will go easy on you with their conditions , so why are we ‘unfair’ ? Ever seen that big aoe fire field of warrior longbow burst ? That’s what I call a real painfull problem.. Not some random 4s burning.. Even if didn’t have burning, we could still stack lots and lots of bleeding with scepter 1.. So you want that they change that to ?

“a waste 30 trait points”

nekretaal.6485:

I don’t use Dhumfire because it has a habit of going off when I not want it too, and also because the other trait is good.

I really don’t like…. Because warriors couldn’t handle burst conditions, all conditions are going o be nerfed into he ground, all new gear is going to favor power 3x more than conditions, new runes will obsolete conditions, new traits will grant condition immunity, and all non Dhumfire necromancer setups will be nerfed, even while the class has real problems in dungeons.

I don’t understand what you mean by ‘the class has real problems in dungeons.’ I play necro all day all night, I prefer to do dungeons over any other things.. I have 0 problems in dungeons (only solo lupicus maybe.. That kitten condi eating phase 3) but still dungeons are designed for 5 people.. And either randoms or people I know, none of them have ever argued about necro being a weak class.. Maybe we differ from play style, I don’t know, but necro’s are no ‘problem’ in every dungeon if you understand our profession mechs..

Brando.1374:

Falcon.8713:

Brando.1374:

this trait will proc as long as you have a decent crit chance.

there is no counter play to this, no amount of dodging skills or condi cleanse can keep up every 10 seconds on top of what we already can dish out.

We do not need Burning to help out damage. I have very little trouble with 1v1 and sometimes 1v2-3 all without dumbfire. in group fights you cant pick and choose who gets burning so its a waste 30 trait points. if you want burning you have a 15s skill called epidemic where you can spread 10+ seconds of burning +all conditions to 5 other targets.

I don’t get what you mean.. First you’re saying you don’t use burning and afterwards you’re talking about spreading it with epidemic ? Or do you mean in group play ? It’s not like other classes will go easy on you with their conditions , so why are we ‘unfair’ ? Ever seen that big aoe fire field of warrior longbow burst ? That’s what I call a real painfull problem.. Not some random 4s burning.. Even if didn’t have burning, we could still stack lots and lots of bleeding with scepter 1.. So you want that they change that to ?

“a waste 30 trait points”

If you do not trait 30 points in spite.. Then how will you spread 10s+ burning with epidemic ? Or do you mean in group play ? But why would others be alowed to give burning but not the Necromancer ?

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

^That is just how I feel about it right now.

WvW wise, I will likely no longer be able to reliably stack 15+ bleed stacks anymore on a target without cheap geomancry procs now that weakening shroud, our attrition tool vs power is getting a kick in the kitten thanks to our “access to burning”. But at least I could still over-stack bleeds on my warrior for insane ticks of 3.2k.

Chill, fear, cripple, lots and lots of bleeding, isn’t that a good counter to power builds ? :o

Bellamy.9860:

Dhuumfire lacks tells.
Like many other abilities it just happens to activate and ruins your day. No good gameplay comes from abilities like that. I am actually a big fan of the planned “makeover” and thought they would implement it like that in the first place.
And apart from its incorporation in lame dhuumfire builds i actually like the trait, it is one of the only things that pushes wacky hybrid builds, especially if you bring vampiric, over the edge of beeing totally miserable and making them kind of decent.

Also in regards to the theme of the necro and the addition of burning:
I don’t mind. I don’t think its unfitting. Perhaps the implementation lacks some fluff. If you look around and compare the necro to different archetypes in other games, be it tabletop or video, some of them use abilites like “burning/boiling blood”. It is a curse/blood magic thing in my book but w/e works for trait tree balancing.

I know what you mean by ‘no good gameplay’ because of the easy application to mobs/players, BUT I’m sure that other professions all got the same ‘luck for succes’ factor in their builds, so I don’t know why necro’s can’t have the same… & lorewise theme for necro.. Dhuum is the old god of death, fire is probably his trademark, necro = bringer and summoner of death.. So I think necro’s can choose between old and new god of death , grenth (ice,death) dhuum (fire,death)

Falcon.8713:

Brando.1374:

Falcon.8713:

Brando.1374:

this trait will proc as long as you have a decent crit chance.

there is no counter play to this, no amount of dodging skills or condi cleanse can keep up every 10 seconds on top of what we already can dish out.

We do not need Burning to help out damage. I have very little trouble with 1v1 and sometimes 1v2-3 all without dumbfire. in group fights you cant pick and choose who gets burning so its a waste 30 trait points. if you want burning you have a 15s skill called epidemic where you can spread 10+ seconds of burning +all conditions to 5 other targets.

I don’t get what you mean.. First you’re saying you don’t use burning and afterwards you’re talking about spreading it with epidemic ? Or do you mean in group play ? It’s not like other classes will go easy on you with their conditions , so why are we ‘unfair’ ? Ever seen that big aoe fire field of warrior longbow burst ? That’s what I call a real painfull problem.. Not some random 4s burning.. Even if didn’t have burning, we could still stack lots and lots of bleeding with scepter 1.. So you want that they change that to ?

“a waste 30 trait points”

If you do not trait 30 points in spite.. Then how will you spread 10s+ burning with epidemic ? Or do you mean in group play ? But why would others be alowed to give burning but not the Necromancer ?

A good Necro does not NEED to APPLY burning to be effective. We spread it from other classes. A good Necro will NOT WASTE 30 trait points for a trait that supports mindless skill spamming in order for it to proc. ONLY BAD Necros rely on this trait to be good. Only Bad necros will see no other way to deal damage and sustain themselves without this trait.

I just dont understand why any decent necro or any necro that played before this patch came out supports this trait.
I see you have 1600 played on your necro (your sig) do you mind if I ask what you ran before this trait came?

Agreed with Brando. It’s a waste if you are running with a group that already provides burning.

Brando.1374:

Falcon.8713:

Brando.1374:

Falcon.8713:

Brando.1374:

this trait will proc as long as you have a decent crit chance.

there is no counter play to this, no amount of dodging skills or condi cleanse can keep up every 10 seconds on top of what we already can dish out.

We do not need Burning to help out damage. I have very little trouble with 1v1 and sometimes 1v2-3 all without dumbfire. in group fights you cant pick and choose who gets burning so its a waste 30 trait points. if you want burning you have a 15s skill called epidemic where you can spread 10+ seconds of burning +all conditions to 5 other targets.

I don’t get what you mean.. First you’re saying you don’t use burning and afterwards you’re talking about spreading it with epidemic ? Or do you mean in group play ? It’s not like other classes will go easy on you with their conditions , so why are we ‘unfair’ ? Ever seen that big aoe fire field of warrior longbow burst ? That’s what I call a real painfull problem.. Not some random 4s burning.. Even if didn’t have burning, we could still stack lots and lots of bleeding with scepter 1.. So you want that they change that to ?

“a waste 30 trait points”

If you do not trait 30 points in spite.. Then how will you spread 10s+ burning with epidemic ? Or do you mean in group play ? But why would others be alowed to give burning but not the Necromancer ?

A good Necro does not NEED to APPLY burning to be effective. We spread it from other classes. A good Necro will NOT WASTE 30 trait points for a trait that supports mindless skill spamming in order for it to proc. ONLY BAD Necros rely on this trait to be good. Only Bad necros will see no other way to deal damage and sustain themselves without this trait.

I just dont understand why any decent necro or any necro that played before this patch came out supports this trait.
I see you have 1600 played on your necro (your sig) do you mind if I ask what you ran before this trait came?

Started from MM (leveling) to WellOMancer (pre ascended) – Power build – Same thing I use now, but with Dhuumfire.. I play condition master S/D + Staff
30/30/10/0/0 (and another level 80 MM, + leveling a new wellomancer)
+30% condition duration (<3) +300 Condition Damage
Spiteful Removal (Lose 3 condition when you kill a foe)
Signet Mastery (3 might stacks, -20% recharge)
Close to death (now dhuumfire, reason: another condition to deal damage)
Hemophilia (20% Increased bleeding duration) / Weakening Shroud (enfeebling blood when entering DS)
Master Of Corruption (-20% faster corruption skills recharge)
Lingering Curse (Scepter Conditions +33% duration) / Withering precision (weakness on crit)
Shrouded Removal (lose a condition when you enter DS)

Gear : 6 Superior runes of the undead
Armor: Exotic Rabid
Weapons: ascended rabid stats – superior sigil of earth on scepter, corruption/tormenting on dagger , staff got earth to
Trinkets: ascended rabid stats

Skills: CC, BiP , Signet of spite, (Corrupt Boon/Spectral walk/Spectral grasp/Signet of locust), Plague

I’ve had other builds to, only changing traits and runes of armor, but I like this casual build.. + not every group does give burning.. These days I almost never run with someone else based on condition damage (not intentional, I think everyone deserves to play as they like) It’s not my aim to spread burning, It’s just a little extra.. My goal is to spread conditions from Signet of spite + bleeding..

Oozo.7856:

Agreed with Brando. It’s a waste if you are running with a group that already provides burning.

It’s a waste IF they do not provide it (aiming at dungeons) my main purpose is spreading high bleeding stacks, burning is just my little damage boost to some mobs..

For me, Dhuumfire never really fit with the Necromancer theme. I tried to make it work but Close to Death does pretty well and does not depend upon critical hit chance. Dhuumfire begs for a hybrid build, which pretty much paints players into a corner as far as variety is concerned, whereas CtD does not.

Dhuumfire is also a condition. For all the about back then about conditions being too strong and too pervasive, Necromancer gets another one.

There was also a lot of talk back then about Necromancer’s “sustain” but the job got fire-on-crit. There were a number of positive improvements to the profession’s viability in PvP but PvE seemed to suffer for it. The oldsters on the forum spent a lot of time discussing options for increasing direct damage and damage mitigation via CC and improved healing. Granted minion performance was greatly improved but minions are still situational in high level PvE.

Dhuumfire would have been better by simply adding poison, chill, or blindness to every attack instead of adding burning. After all, putting 30 points into the power trait line should provide conditions (provided conditions were what that line needs) that reduce demand to trait the precision tree, not increase demand for traiting Curses.

Burning is also not a core condition for Necromancer. Chill, blind, weakness, cripple, poison, vulnerability, bleed; all of these conditions are part of the Necromancer’s core mechanics but not fire. I never understood where fire came from. It does faster damage than bleed but that is not the only path to reward players with higher dps and it interfered with Terror – another tacked-on skill for dps improvement. Going hybrid/berserker with Terror and Dhuumfire was what made other classes complain (those whiners who are used to ganking Necros) so instead of getting rid of Dhuumfire, other core areas suffered to bring that build in line. Nevermind what it did to players trying to run other builds.

Dhuumfire was never the right thing for the job, in my opinion. If the developers are reading this, please consider removing it and spreading better sustain into the Blood Magic and Death Magic lines, and more options for direct damage into the core weapon set / job mechanics so that players do not feel as pressured to run glass cannons and do feel more rewarded for tank, or other, builds.

Necros didn’t like the nerfs that came with it..
Now we are clinging to it because of the nerf that came with it..

But don’t worry necro’s will be nutered even more next month..
Just watch us melt away vs anything

ahh if only they had made death nova have burning condition instead of poison…

Guardian burns are sort of a joke. It’s futile for them to stack condition damage & duration, as burn benefits more from duration than damage (for Guardians), otherwise we’re sacrificing a whole lot for just one condition.

There is the Pyroclasm build for Guardians…

Nismu.4019:

ahh if only they had made death nova have burning condition instead of poison…

Would have made no sense

Falcon.8713:

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

^That is just how I feel about it right now.

WvW wise, I will likely no longer be able to reliably stack 15+ bleed stacks anymore on a target without cheap geomancry procs now that weakening shroud, our attrition tool vs power is getting a kick in the kitten thanks to our “access to burning”. But at least I could still over-stack bleeds on my warrior for insane ticks of 3.2k.

Chill, fear, cripple, lots and lots of bleeding, isn’t that a good counter to power builds ? :o

No it isn’t unless it is 1vs1. That won’t do us much good when we are tossed around for sport. That is not going to counter BV, Scullcrack, Hammer CC chain, etc> burst.
We cant dodge every CC/immobilize> burst senario and the only thing that could save us some HP and lifeforce after is weakness on demand with DS.

I am not asking to be a walking death machine, but seems our defensive measures are lacking when compared to mobility, condition immunity, blocks, dodge spam and invulnerability frames.

Brando.1374:

Falcon.8713:

Brando.1374:

Falcon.8713:

Brando.1374:

this trait will proc as long as you have a decent crit chance.

there is no counter play to this, no amount of dodging skills or condi cleanse can keep up every 10 seconds on top of what we already can dish out.

We do not need Burning to help out damage. I have very little trouble with 1v1 and sometimes 1v2-3 all without dumbfire. in group fights you cant pick and choose who gets burning so its a waste 30 trait points. if you want burning you have a 15s skill called epidemic where you can spread 10+ seconds of burning +all conditions to 5 other targets.

I don’t get what you mean.. First you’re saying you don’t use burning and afterwards you’re talking about spreading it with epidemic ? Or do you mean in group play ? It’s not like other classes will go easy on you with their conditions , so why are we ‘unfair’ ? Ever seen that big aoe fire field of warrior longbow burst ? That’s what I call a real painfull problem.. Not some random 4s burning.. Even if didn’t have burning, we could still stack lots and lots of bleeding with scepter 1.. So you want that they change that to ?

“a waste 30 trait points”

If you do not trait 30 points in spite.. Then how will you spread 10s+ burning with epidemic ? Or do you mean in group play ? But why would others be alowed to give burning but not the Necromancer ?

A good Necro does not NEED to APPLY burning to be effective. We spread it from other classes. A good Necro will NOT WASTE 30 trait points for a trait that supports mindless skill spamming in order for it to proc. ONLY BAD Necros rely on this trait to be good. Only Bad necros will see no other way to deal damage and sustain themselves without this trait.

I just dont understand why any decent necro or any necro that played before this patch came out supports this trait.
I see you have 1600 played on your necro (your sig) do you mind if I ask what you ran before this trait came?

I do not run with a group on my necro. I dont think it would be any good with such a group because there will be other necros, some of them will have dhuumfire and you cannot get it twice on your victims :/

i hate dhuum because i feel torment is a much better suited condi for the necro, and fire just doesnt go with the theme. at all. id love to be able to stack 3x torment on crit. it makes perfect sense because necros survive through kiting more than any other prof, and would actually be much less OP. in addition, you would punish people for moving toward you, which adds more strategy to the game (do i chase and take more damage, or do i wait it out and let him gain some distance?)

mistsim.2748:

i hate dhuum because i feel torment is a much better suited condi for the necro, and fire just doesnt go with the theme. at all. id love to be able to stack 3x torment on crit. it makes perfect sense because necros survive through kiting more than any other prof, and would actually be much less OP. in addition, you would punish people for moving toward you, which adds more strategy to the game (do i chase and take more damage, or do i wait it out and let him gain some distance?)

Torment is a much better suited condition on necro 100% true ! But our acces to it is bad.. like, why give a thief a utility skill that can stack torment, of a mesmer scepter 2, gives 5stack at once.. I would love it to change dhuumfire to tormenting of dhuum or something.. But I don’t think they will change it that way :c

mistsim.2748:

i hate dhuum because i feel torment is a much better suited condi for the necro, and fire just doesnt go with the theme. at all. id love to be able to stack 3x torment on crit. it makes perfect sense because necros survive through kiting more than any other prof, and would actually be much less OP. in addition, you would punish people for moving toward you, which adds more strategy to the game (do i chase and take more damage, or do i wait it out and let him gain some distance?)

Perfectly fine with that. Fire is indeed a weird condition to have as a necro. Chill would be much better but that way no-one would get away from us. Torment seems like a good replacement for it.

I would love Dhuumfire if it was .. greenflame…

GREENFLAME!!!

I hate it because it’s one of the primary reasons our class is slowly getting hacked to pieces. Right up until this dhumbfire came out, we weren’t in a bad spot. Now thanks to this one trait, it’s affecting more than just the problem build in a chain reaction just in an effort to keep it from being op.

We don’t want it. Get rid of it.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

I hate it because it’s one of the primary reasons our class is slowly getting hacked to pieces. Right up until this dhumbfire came out, we weren’t in a bad spot. Now thanks to this one trait, it’s affecting more than just the problem build in a chain reaction just in an effort to keep it from being op.

We don’t want it. Get rid of it.

this, get rid of it. the terror nerf and subsequent bleed nerfs to make dhuum less OP is just dumb. how about we start recognizing what the real problem is?

all the power build only users will keep crying until the end of time because dhuumfire added that extra damage to put necros on par with zerk bursters. meanwhile condi warriors, engis, and mesmers have been enjoying way more survivability plus confusion stacking.

huh? bursty power builds dont want or care about dhuum.

Stand The Wall.6987:

all the power build only users will keep crying until the end of time because dhuumfire added that extra damage to put necros on par with zerk bursters. meanwhile condi warriors, engis, and mesmers have been enjoying way more survivability plus confusion stacking.

wait what…..
I would rather take the 20% extra dmg when enemy is under 50%hp as a power build.

It’s not that Dhuumfire is a bad trait, or even a bad idea. It simply doesn’t belong in Spite. The only thing that remotely links it to the traitline is Condition Duration provided in the line. In my opinion, looking at the associated weapons/stats/other traits within Spite there should be a control heavy grandmaster trait. Close to Death is a fine damage trait. How about something that plays off Chill? IE whenever you chill an enemy you also apply Vuln and/or Weakness. Or you transfer a condition when chilling an enemy. Etc. Etc.

A random burn on crit (which isn’t even present in Spite) in no way, shape, or form, contributes to the playstyle associated with the rest of this trait line.