Guild Wars 2

Nemesis.8593:

+ the ability to act as a debuffer – by adding up to 24 stacks of vulnerability on a target

I agree so kitten much with this, its such a good build with a direct damage teamate focus firing. I’m gearing up to run a build like this in WvW, conditions get boring and I know a power build like this would be deadly teamed with a guardians stacking might on you and doing solid direct damage.

Citizen Shane did some math to find golden ratios for Power Vs. Precision.
Here is the link.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/Damage-Power-Precision-and-Golden-Ratios/first#post1743110

Some of his calculations. I dont know if you already knew the golden ratios but you are dead on picking precision stacking runes on focus over power stacking.

SnyderHall.7263:

Guys, stop being so arrogant with this “if you’re a more advanced/skilled player, you can melee in safety which makes it okay!”

Everyone half skilled can dodge, position, and heal properly, but that misses the point of DPS uptime completely. How much DPS are you doing when you’re dodging? Healing? Repositioning after dodging? While you are constantly evading (which no one is saying impossible or hard to do), the ranged DPS is applying nearly constant DPS. So unless your melee dps is greatly higher than ranged dps (such as Warrior melee vs ranged), ranged dps will put out more.

There is no point arguing, since some of you will most likely reply with “oh, I never really need to dodge, I’m just really pro” stuff that I’m already seeing. To all the new players, test it out yourself. Don’t be fooled by big numbers and think that you are doing fantastic DPS. Even if you are not downing, the fact that you are spending several seconds at a time evading, healing, and getting back to the Boss cost you tremendous DPS.

Sometimes I really wish they allowed DPS addons in this game like WoW, it would solve a lot of issues with all these theorycrafting gurus.

Great guide, Nemesis.

The game is designed to do more damage in melee. The tradeoff is danger. Even dodging and healing you still do more dps.

Oh yeah and I wanted to say I was a fan of your other video.

The math shows he made the correct choice for food. The only thing I could see that might change would be runes on armor buts thats an argument its still a push imo. Im sure he is already well aware of the trade offs someone that makes such a detailed necro vid knows how to make builds and gear choices to fit any situation.

Im a fan.

SnyderHall.7263:

Everyone half skilled can dodge, position, and heal properly, but that misses the point of DPS uptime completely. How much DPS are you doing when you’re dodging? Healing? Repositioning after dodging? While you are constantly evading (which no one is saying impossible or hard to do), the ranged DPS is applying nearly constant DPS. So unless your melee dps is greatly higher than ranged dps (such as Warrior melee vs ranged), ranged dps will put out more.

Agreed. The trick is finding the right balance for your playstyle between melee and ranged play, while not ignoring the situational utility available to each weapon set. Big numbers are great, but you gotta make sure your numbers are consistent too.

spoj.9672:

SnyderHall.7263:

Guys, stop being so arrogant with this “if you’re a more advanced/skilled player, you can melee in safety which makes it okay!”

Everyone half skilled can dodge, position, and heal properly, but that misses the point of DPS uptime completely. How much DPS are you doing when you’re dodging? Healing? Repositioning after dodging? While you are constantly evading (which no one is saying impossible or hard to do), the ranged DPS is applying nearly constant DPS. So unless your melee dps is greatly higher than ranged dps (such as Warrior melee vs ranged), ranged dps will put out more.

There is no point arguing, since some of you will most likely reply with “oh, I never really need to dodge, I’m just really pro” stuff that I’m already seeing. To all the new players, test it out yourself. Don’t be fooled by big numbers and think that you are doing fantastic DPS. Even if you are not downing, the fact that you are spending several seconds at a time evading, healing, and getting back to the Boss cost you tremendous DPS.

Sometimes I really wish they allowed DPS addons in this game like WoW, it would solve a lot of issues with all these theorycrafting gurus.

Great guide, Nemesis.

The game is designed to do more damage in melee. The tradeoff is danger. Even dodging and healing you still do more dps.

I addressed this. The second set of weapon is Dagger anyways, so it is not like you will not take it out in situations where the melee does more. The degree of active damage mitagation required will determine whether you stay in ranged or melee. The trick is always balance.

Without evidence, neither of us can claim one way or the other; especially when there is no “always go melee/ranged” situation going on here. Unlike other classes, the difference in damage between Axe+DS vs Dagger is extremely small, that is why we have this discussion to begin with.

Nemesis has posted a video. Why not post a video of you doing Bosses while barely moving to dodge the damages?

I dont range anything in this game except fiery shaman boss in grawl fractal. Sometimes it helps to have some ranged options when you need to duck out a bit, but the dagger 2 and DS is enough for that. If you melee everything it is more damage even when taking into account dodges. But obviously not everyone is capable of doing that or its just not their playstyle.

spoj.9672:

I dont range anything in this game except fiery shaman boss in grawl fractal. Sometimes it helps to have some ranged options when you need to duck out a bit, but the dagger 2 and DS is enough for that. If you melee everything it is more damage even when taking into account dodges. But obviously not everyone is capable of doing that or its just not their playstyle.

There you go again with the ad hominem. Can we stop with the name calling? Capable of what? Dodging? Dodging reduces DPS uptime. More you dodge, more DPS loss. What’s so hard to understand?
Being able to live through a hard fight with the dagger does not equate good dps when you could have potentially pumped out higher constant damage per second had you stayed in ranged.

Dagger 2 and inferior DS due to you using it in dagger are your excuses for ranged combat? That is even further DPS loss on top of the melee dps uptime loss. Dagger 2 is terrible for damage and DS lacks the 10% boost from Axe training as well as the slightly higher weapon damage from Axe, by the way.

It is not like Nemesis, I, or the others are saying dagger is bad. No one is telling you to not go dagger through Cof runs or anything (just a simple example). However, we are arguing that there are plenty (not just situational) times when the range dps option will provide superior DPS.

Remember, this is not the same as Warrior axe vs rifle. You cannot simply discount the benefit of a projectile weapon just because melee does slightly more DPS. Necromancer has one of the strongest range DPS in the game currently, and it nearly matches the numbers put out by the dagger without accounting for dps uptime.

In another thread, you even admitted that you could not kill a Risen Giant under 25 seconds no matter how many times you’ve tried, when another poster got it in 22 seconds with DS + Axe due to not needing to dodge in range.

spoj.9672:

Ok just got a 25second kill but i interrupted my locust swarm so that didnt get cast till mid fight and then the giant chain stomped 2 times in a row at the end. Had to dodge 3 attacks total. :<

Also bare in mind a DS build stacks vuln and might better, so solo it probably is quite even.

Edit: Around 25 seconds seems to be the best i can get when being forced to dodge so many stomps and not having the best sigils (Need to get bloodlust and swap focus sigil from energy to force).

Oh, and the icing on the cake? You can use Dagger as your offset for when you know that the fight does not require much active mitigation. Did we mention DS also pierces, applies vulnerability, and stacks might? Please don’t say that you will run with 4 warriors who is giving you 25 might stacks, fury, and keeping 25 vul on enemies at all times. That does not happen nearly enough, and we simply cannot tell all the new players “never worry about vulnerability/might, because your teammates will do it”. Someone has to do it.

Without a DPS addon these conversations go round and round. We may even not notice it in the heat of moment but the addon is there, and it does not lie. At the end of a fight it keeps tracks of how many dodges, how many times we had to stop.

But this whole thing enters the realm of shaving seconds (not minutes). It is no longer about viable or non viable. There is this whole 6 minute timer in everyone’s heads that must be beat so shaving ten or fifteen seconds off a boss has become quite important.

Not even because the encounter will fail since there are no DPS checks.

SnyderHall.7263:

snip

Even interrupting with dodges its still more dps. You cant compare solo to a group setting anway. But even if you do, your ignoring that on that giant kill i didnt have bloodlust or force on my weapons and i still came close to beating the DS build. If i had a fully stacked bloodlust im pretty sure I would of cut off atleast 5 seconds. Bare in mind every attempt I made i was on target for a 18 second kill until I had to dodge twice at the end. In a longer fight I would of made up for the lost time.

My conclusing of those tests was that the DS build is better for solo but in a group setting dagger builds are always gonna out dps even if you have to dodge constantly. DS builds generate buffs for the necro, but in a group you dont need that as much as your group will be buffing you. Anyway I dont to derail this thread. They are different playstyles, play what you want to but if your trying to maximise damage melee is the way to go even for a necro.

spoj.9672:

SnyderHall.7263:

snip

Even interrupting with dodges its still more dps. You cant compare solo to a group setting anway. But even if you do, your ignoring that on that giant kill i didnt have bloodlust or force on my weapons and i still came close to beating the DS build. If i had a fully stacked bloodlust im pretty sure I would of cut off atleast 5 seconds. Bare in mind every attempt I made i was on target for a 18 second kill until I had to dodge twice at the end. In a longer fight I would of made up for the lost time.

My conclusing of those tests was that the DS build is better for solo but in a group setting dagger builds are always gonna out dps even if you have to dodge constantly. DS builds generate buffs for the necro, but in a group you dont need that as much as your group will be buffing you. Anyway I dont to derail this thread. They are different playstyles, play what you want to but if your trying to maximise damage melee is the way to go even for a necro.

Bloodlust stacks give 250 power, which at around 2500 base power, give around 10% damage boost or 10% faster kill speed which would make it 22,5 seconds, which is around same as mine. And I’d like to note that I did dodge once there when the giant stomped. I don’t know what sigil you used in place of force though.

Targuil.3741:

spoj.9672:

SnyderHall.7263:

snip

Even interrupting with dodges its still more dps. You cant compare solo to a group setting anway. But even if you do, your ignoring that on that giant kill i didnt have bloodlust or force on my weapons and i still came close to beating the DS build. If i had a fully stacked bloodlust im pretty sure I would of cut off atleast 5 seconds. Bare in mind every attempt I made i was on target for a 18 second kill until I had to dodge twice at the end. In a longer fight I would of made up for the lost time.

My conclusing of those tests was that the DS build is better for solo but in a group setting dagger builds are always gonna out dps even if you have to dodge constantly. DS builds generate buffs for the necro, but in a group you dont need that as much as your group will be buffing you. Anyway I dont to derail this thread. They are different playstyles, play what you want to but if your trying to maximise damage melee is the way to go even for a necro.

Bloodlust stacks give 250 power, which at around 2500 base power, give around 10% damage boost or 10% faster kill speed which would make it 22,5 seconds, which is around same as mine. And I’d like to note that I did dodge once there when the giant stomped. I don’t know what sigil you used in place of force though.

Had accuracy. Were you using undead potion? I wasnt :P. I was far from optimally geared but w/e. Im not gonna bother discussing these things anymore. Its pointless argueing with some of the people on these forums. The amount of times i try to help new players and get stuff thrown back in my face by someone who doesnt even do high level pve on multiple classes is depressing.

Ps. That wasnt directed at anyone in particular, some of you guys are some of the more intelligent and polite posters in these forums. :>

spoj.9672:

Targuil.3741:

spoj.9672:

SnyderHall.7263:

snip

Even interrupting with dodges its still more dps. You cant compare solo to a group setting anway. But even if you do, your ignoring that on that giant kill i didnt have bloodlust or force on my weapons and i still came close to beating the DS build. If i had a fully stacked bloodlust im pretty sure I would of cut off atleast 5 seconds. Bare in mind every attempt I made i was on target for a 18 second kill until I had to dodge twice at the end. In a longer fight I would of made up for the lost time.

My conclusing of those tests was that the DS build is better for solo but in a group setting dagger builds are always gonna out dps even if you have to dodge constantly. DS builds generate buffs for the necro, but in a group you dont need that as much as your group will be buffing you. Anyway I dont to derail this thread. They are different playstyles, play what you want to but if your trying to maximise damage melee is the way to go even for a necro.

Bloodlust stacks give 250 power, which at around 2500 base power, give around 10% damage boost or 10% faster kill speed which would make it 22,5 seconds, which is around same as mine. And I’d like to note that I did dodge once there when the giant stomped. I don’t know what sigil you used in place of force though.

Had accuracy. Were you using undead potion? I wasnt :P. I was far from optimally geared but w/e. Im not gonna bother discussing these things anymore. Its pointless argueing with some of the people on these forums. The amount of times i try to help new players and get stuff thrown back in my face by someone who doesnt even do high level pve on multiple classes is depressing.

Ps. That wasnt directed at anyone in particular, some of you guys are some of the more intelligent and polite posters in these forums. :>

Didn’t use pot (used superior whetstone), but the end difference is quite marginal and I agree we’ve pretty much explored all possiblities but I’m still up for a debate,

This is fantastic. Your videos just keep getting better and better. Thanks for all that you do for this community, Nemesis.

Nice build, I think it’s perfect for open world pve and some softcore dungeons etc.
But definitely a condition aoe build would still be better in wvw and spvp/tpvp.
Pk-fight survivability is so weak for a low-mobility class. (especially in 2v1 or more)
But it’s perfect for killing a single target while you are safe from other threats.

how would you modify this for tpvp? im interested in testing it as i am testing alot of builds atm

today, I’ve discovered some of your video-guides about necromancer. I play necromancer since when I began Guild Wars 2, and I think your guides are really interesting.
I’m rather a PvP player and I usually have a glasscanon build. So, do you will do an update of your PvP glasscanon necromancer build ?
This new glasscanon guide is interesting, but could it be also used in PvP?

Thank’s!

Hi everyone,

My first post on the official forums ;-) tho I’ve been enjoying many very interesting posts, like this one, from major necro community contributors for several months now. Just to name a few: Sheobix, Tarquil, Molch, … and of course Nemesis who puts so much effort in his youtube vids.

Definitely loving all the math u guys been doing :-)

@Molch: I tested your 30/10/0/30 setup but with Weakening Shroud trait. It casts Enfeebling Blood every 15 secs when going into DS which this build is doing a lot, so it adds some damage (168), gives weakness which helps your own survival and does damage via the bleeds. I know the bleeds hamper with the team setup but then again it’s extra damage.

I just switched to this build yesterday and i am using the exact build as nemesis describes exept for wvw i used a staff in stead of the dagger/warhorn and then the trait greater marks.

I used this for small skirmishes and your opponent dont have any idea wtf is happening to them. When in DS your bossing them arround and in then i use my axe 2 attack and gone.

Just to be clear we where with 1 ele, 1 guard and me. And with just the three of us we killed groups of 5 and 6. We also got wiped 2 times because of we killed a group of 4 or something and then we got steamrolled by the zerg ;-)

Because of this build i am finding it fun to use me necro again instead of 1 of the 2 guardians i have

Thx nemesis!!!

VERY nice. =) I will have to test it out.