Guild Wars 2

So Consume conditions and Plague form are being changed in a rather unfitting and damaging way, so rather than gripe about it I was thinking about alternatives to the current proposed changes.

An example I had was something along the lines of;

“Spectral Removal” – Heal for XXXX amount, removing conditions (either all or a cap 5-7) Gaining Life Force (% varies for amount it can remove) for each Condition removed. (insert cool down here)

Consume conditions needed a nerf though this one seems too hazardous and punishing in my (and many others opinion), with this change the skill can be used in multiple builds and serve a similar purpose as it currently does now. Adjusting the healing to normalize the loss of Health per condi removed gaining a new utility for it, as Death shroud is utilized in all builds this heal can be useful. (though I also think they need to seriously buff the other heals and Blood fiend need a lot of love).

Plague – Transform into a plague cloud, gain increased Vitality and toughness bleed 1 stack of bleed for 2 seconds every second. Gain new 1-5 Skills

Random examples;

1 – Basic condi pulse like AA (poison/bleed or something)
2 – Debilitating mist/Carrion swarm – drop a cloud of putrid magic/summon a swarm of insects that Poisons and cripples enemies (small cool down)
3 – Blinding parasite – Enemies caught in the radius of the Plague after cast are Blinded (Small to med cool down)
4 – Miasma – For X amount of seconds pulse out conditions that you are currently afflicted with. (Still uses Poi/bleed auto but adds condis you are afflicted with (stacks+duration, med high cool down)
5 – Fetid Explosion – After a short delay Blast out a wave of Virulent magic that applies all conditions on you too any Enemies caught in the blast radius. (Damage? high cool down)

Being bled while in plague form is bad since we have no way to utilize it nor rid our selves of it. With these changes not only would plague form get a new quality of life and utility but the Bleeding could be used to our advantage. another Idea I had was draw in condies off your allies (like 3 per ally)

Of course these ideas would need balancing (and I’m defiantly not the numbers guy) this was just some ideas I had. What ideas would you like to see? how would you improve/change the skills?

TL:DR – The changes to CC and Plague are lame, here’s what I’d change, How would you change it?

Honestly, I think they just need to change the vulnerability to poison on Consume Conditions and transfer all your conditions to foes around you when leaving plague.

So yeah you stack condi’s in plague but you blast everyone around you with whatever is left on you when you leave it. This includes any you picked up while in plague, it is an elite skill and is justified by the long CD.

The poison on Consume Conditions will offset the heals from Blood Magic and the blood magic heals really justifies the longer CD on Consume Conditions.

Get rid of the random condition to go along with the heal when traited.

I think Plague is fine, yeah its been nerfed a little bit but w/e I couldn’t care less you almost never die in plague anyway and its a tiny bit of bleeding on a massive HP pool.

Consume Conditions just should retain its 25s CD, or not be a corruption, like how Shelter wasn’t changed.

Yeah I was going to say about changing the condi to poison was an earlier idea I had, I just wanted to get creative :P

@Bhawb Shelter will be changed they probably forgot since all skills are being assigned to trait lines or “specializations”

Don’t even say Consume Conditions needed a nerf, OP. Necros didn’t need nerfs. The only thing we should accept from them at this point is Consume Conditions being returned to how it is and every other heal skill that we have being buffed to compensate to this foul insult to our class. Remember how they nerfed Well of Blood a few months ago for no reason and gave us the worst signet heal in the game? The only heal they haven’t destroyed was the Blood Fiend, but they pretty much did simply by not making it the starting heal because nobody would ever waste their time obtaining such a terrible heal skill.

Cecilia.5179:

Don’t even say Consume Conditions needed a nerf, OP. Necros didn’t need nerfs. The only thing we should accept from them at this point is Consume Conditions being returned to how it is and every other heal skill that we have being buffed to compensate to this foul insult to our class. Remember how they nerfed Well of Blood a few months ago for no reason and gave us the worst signet heal in the game? The only heal they haven’t destroyed was the Blood Fiend, but they pretty much did simply by not making it the starting heal because nobody would ever waste their time obtaining such a terrible heal skill.

I would agree that consume conditions in its current state isnot OP, but combined with the ability to run all the health siphoning from blood magic is a bit much. I dont think vulnerability is the answer though. 10% more damage is a beast of a downside that now I need to think “Ohh god staff 4 right after I heal.”

But Poison is the least damaging condi in game and would offset the passive heals from blood magic that will now be available to so many more builds due to running 3 trait lines. Not to mention it almost does no damage on power builds now.

I can personally see the unbalance with blood magic even if anyone cant and can justify the extended CD myself because of blood magic. I just think vulnerability is the wrong answer.

Neither of these needed nerfs, but we’ll live.

We had CC at that cooldown before we’ll get used to it. Vulnerability, even so many stacks, is still terrible. The worst part is that the condition will prevent us from getting OOC.

We got 2 extra major traits from the update. One of them will have to be condition removal or sustain.

nightblood.7910:

I would agree that consume conditions in its current state isnot OP, but combined with the ability to run all the health siphoning from blood magic is a bit much. I dont think vulnerability is the answer though. 10% more damage is a beast of a downside that now I need to think “Ohh god staff 4 right after I heal.”

What so op about siphoning haven’t you seen the AOE healing of a shoutbow?

I’m not saying the we NEED the Nerf I’m saying if they want to go this way there are better ways of doing it. Also bleeding in Plague isn’t good, you may have a lot of HP and toughness, but you literally giving free damage, since you can’t heal off the bleed, you can’t transfer it nor rid your self of it in Plague form, it’s literally just taking damage.

consume should get shelter treatment

plague needs to be a mobile well

Lich needs to be corruption

And what is this Shelter Treatment?

I am so mad about Consume Conditions… It did not need a nerf at all…

MrFlump.8725:

And what is this Shelter Treatment?

No connection to anything (like corruption) while remaining as old.

MrFlump.8725:

And what is this Shelter Treatment?

Consume Conditions was giving to the skill set “Corruptions” so it is under the effect of traits that buff Corruptions however (We suspect) because of this it has been hit pretty hard with both a longer cooldown and condition application after use…Which really doesn’t make any sense for a Condition clear skill but there we go.

Shelter on the other hand (Guardian Heal) was deemed to be fine as it was and was just left as is, It wasn’t put into a particular skill set so they haven’t had to tweak it.

By giving Consume Conditions the “Shelter Treatment” people mean they want Consume Conditions to be a skill with no type and reverted back to normal so it won’t be touched by traits but also won’t be on a 30s cooldown and stack you with 10% extra damage after you use it via Vulnerability.

MrFlump.8725:

And what is this Shelter Treatment?

shelter treat ment is to refer to guarderian’s heal shelter which remain universal and categorized so they didnt do anything to it, they didnt make it a concentration or meditation or shout or symbol or signet, shelter just sated shelter
because guardian devs said that to balance shelter would require too much work so they left it as it

instead of consume condition staying consume condition it become a corruption consume condition which u can trait for
said trait brought to us with a much longer cooldown and a unwanted drawback
said trait also lies in a condition line -screwing powernecros and maybe MMnecros
said trait is in competition with Terror -screwing condimancers

necro devs obviously didn’t not look into what quick draw rangers would do to necros- have fun healing(not)

It its going to be connected, it has to be with the new trait and skill system, it was most likely not put on the list by accident, they have said many times EVERY skill is getting put into a class. (most likely consecration)

MrFlump.8725:

It its going to be connected, it has to be with the new trait and skill system, it was most likely not put on the list by accident, they have said many times EVERY skill is getting put into a class. (most likely consecration)

ACtually it is dev confirmed to remain the same.

where did they say this? and how did they say how it will unlock with the new system?

MrFlump.8725:

It its going to be connected, it has to be with the new trait and skill system, it was most likely not put on the list by accident, they have said many times EVERY skill is getting put into a class. (most likely consecration)

unlike consume condition however shelter does not leave a bad taste in ur mouth when u use it after the updates hit

No heal in the game punishes you for using it like the new consume conditions does. Even if the vulnerability is 4 seconds. With the new ability for almost ALL classes to put out vulnerability. That stack can turn into a big problem and allow for people to simply wait for you to get low enough to heal and simply pile on more vulnerability that you helped them stack essentially. I love necromancer as it is my main class and I’ve found ways to work through the classes short comings through this games lifetime. However, punishing us for healing is ludicrous. Anet- You need to fix this.

MrFlump.8725:

where did they say this? and how did they say how it will unlock with the new system?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/June-23-Specialization-Changes/5149118

Just found the post saying Shelter isnt getting changed i feel its much better if every skill gets classed, just not in a dumb way like CC was

Wow I honestly missed that, well that sucks I mean I still think if they’re gonna change it change it appropriately but still.

KashimKudal.2961:

No heal in the game punishes you for using it like the new consume conditions does. Anet- You need to fix this.

in gw3 maybe -just 6 more years to go

The whole of Corruption skills need to be altered. I am thinking that all Corruption skills should give 3 seconds of Resistance (either baseline or with MoC) while self applied conditions with stacks have their stacks increase much further – while Resistance is sort of reworked to allow players to remain out of combat should they also have a condition on them. 3 seconds is fair for someone to get rid of the dangerous condition while it also has room for counterplay. This way, the self applied conditions are no longer a hinderance to us or a laughing stock for our enemies – but a force to be reckoned with when transferred.

Suggested Change: Master of corruption converts one condition on you into a boon after using a corruption skill INSTEAD of adding an additional self-inflicted condition after using a corruption skill.

apoidea.7095:

Suggested Change: Master of corruption converts one condition on you into a boon after using a corruption skill INSTEAD of adding an additional self-inflicted condition after using a corruption skill.

that defeats the purpose of corruption which is to allow u to transfer the conditions
unfortunately we have to take specific weapon sets for the transfer and plague form just kills u because u cant transfer

Tim.6450:

nightblood.7910:

I would agree that consume conditions in its current state isnot OP, but combined with the ability to run all the health siphoning from blood magic is a bit much. I dont think vulnerability is the answer though. 10% more damage is a beast of a downside that now I need to think “Ohh god staff 4 right after I heal.”

What so op about siphoning haven’t you seen the AOE healing of a shoutbow?

Necro’s basically have two life bars to get through. Of which you will be taking on some of that healing while in DS.

But the main point is that I can see their logic and why they chose to back up that heal a little bit, but they went overboard. With the new changes to how vulnerability affects condi’s the new Consume Conditions can literally end you up worse off then when you started.

Where Poison is something that will not do that. I tend to be a reasonable person, and well I have played necro though I dont main it, and I can see some poison far better than being wrecked just because I need to heal because Im being wrecked.

It just doesnt make sense, you would use that heal because of massive damage coming your way or massive conditions. In other words, youre likely targeted.

So after that heal, youre going to get it all right back from the attacks and its going to do far worse damage than before in both condi and power damage.

Where as poison would not do that, it would just cut some of the siphoning some for a period of time and its the lowest damage condi in game, next poison is connected to condi damage. So it also pretty much has no effect in terms of damage on power builds.

If they are going to change it and they are hell bent, I would rather see poison than vulnerability.

nightblood.7910:

Tim.6450:

nightblood.7910:

I would agree that consume conditions in its current state isnot OP, but combined with the ability to run all the health siphoning from blood magic is a bit much. I dont think vulnerability is the answer though. 10% more damage is a beast of a downside that now I need to think “Ohh god staff 4 right after I heal.”

What so op about siphoning haven’t you seen the AOE healing of a shoutbow?

Necro’s basically have two life bars to get through. Of which you will be taking on some of that healing while in DS.

Come on the double life bar argument? That’s just uninformed and wrong, necros do not have double life bars.

I think with 100% bleed duration, Plague will cap at about 4 stacks of bleed on you which at its worst would be about 680 damage per second (or 800 if we’re considering 2000 condi damage + might from allies). If you inflict poison and bleeding with Plague and use Parasitic Contagion, you shouldn’t take much damage at all, especially if you’re plaguing on a group of enemies. If you also have a regeneration boon from a nearby ally, which could be something like 250 health per sec, you’d take only 450 dmg per sec. It would be interesting to see how that would all work out in practice.

- In sPvP your bleeding will probably be around 35% (Nightmare runes + Barbed Precision) so that would be 2.7 secs of bleeds which could cap at 2.7 bleeds or so. At its worst, that would be about 400 health per second. Again, this can be lowered with siphons from blood magic, for example… and if you dodge while in Plague you’ll get the regen from Mark of Blood, which would reduce the bleed damage by a bit too.
…That being said, I’m not a huge fan of Plague causing a self bleed even though I see ways around it. Plague COULD maybe use a skill which is only usable once it either completely cleanses you off of condis, heals you the more condis you have on you, or it gives you the resistance boon for x number of seconds to off-set the damage.

MethaneGas.8357:

I think with 100% bleed duration, Plague will cap at about 4 stacks of bleed on you which at its worst would be about 680 damage per second (or 800 if we’re considering 2000 condi damage + might from allies). If you inflict poison and bleeding with Plague and use Parasitic Contagion, you shouldn’t take much damage at all, especially if you’re plaguing on a group of enemies. If you also have a regeneration boon from a nearby ally, which could be something like 250 health per sec, you’d take only 450 dmg per sec. It would be interesting to see how that would all work out in practice.

Don’t you see the problem with this? The amount of setup you need to make a balanced skill practical again is just huge.

Zantmar.5406:

apoidea.7095:

Suggested Change: Master of corruption converts one condition on you into a boon after using a corruption skill INSTEAD of adding an additional self-inflicted condition after using a corruption skill.

that defeats the purpose of corruption which is to allow u to transfer the conditions
unfortunately we have to take specific weapon sets for the transfer and plague form just kills u because u cant transfer

I guess it does, but master of corruption as it is now makes it so that corruption skills inflict 2 conditions on yourself. Given that the transfer skills only transfer 3 conditions (single target), you’re wasting 2/3 of your transfer ability as those 2 condition transfer slots could be saved for counterplay by actually transferring the conditions the enemy has placed on you instead of the ones you place on yourself.

I’d actually rather master of corruption simply be the cd reduction with no secondary effect then. Or maybe it inflicts a secondary condition on yourself but you randomly convert one of your condis into a boon (so you end up having 1 condi and 1 boon after using a corruption skill).

Zantmar.5406:

KashimKudal.2961:

No heal in the game punishes you for using it like the new consume conditions does. Anet- You need to fix this.

in gw3 maybe -just 6 more years to go

You ruined it..It’s..

3 more years to go

apoidea.7095:

I’d actually rather master of corruption simply be the cd reduction with no secondary effect then.

the necro dev- like that of many other game designers out there- believes that profits should come from sacrifice

unfortunate that’s not what the rest of the class designers for this game believes in

also very unfortunate that there is not much profit to be gained instead we just eat nerf bats

Sagat.3285:

Zantmar.5406:

KashimKudal.2961:

No heal in the game punishes you for using it like the new consume conditions does. Anet- You need to fix this.

in gw3 maybe -just 6 more years to go

You ruined it..It’s..

3 more years to go

i’m just giving them another chance

MethaneGas.8357:

I think with 100% bleed duration, Plague will cap at about 4 stacks of bleed on you which at its worst would be about 680 damage per second (or 800 if we’re considering 2000 condi damage + might from allies). If you inflict poison and bleeding with Plague and use Parasitic Contagion, you shouldn’t take much damage at all, especially if you’re plaguing on a group of enemies. If you also have a regeneration boon from a nearby ally, which could be something like 250 health per sec, you’d take only 450 dmg per sec. It would be interesting to see how that would all work out in practice.

- In sPvP your bleeding will probably be around 35% (Nightmare runes + Barbed Precision) so that would be 2.7 secs of bleeds which could cap at 2.7 bleeds or so. At its worst, that would be about 400 health per second. Again, this can be lowered with siphons from blood magic, for example… and if you dodge while in Plague you’ll get the regen from Mark of Blood, which would reduce the bleed damage by a bit too.
…That being said, I’m not a huge fan of Plague causing a self bleed even though I see ways around it. Plague COULD maybe use a skill which is only usable once it either completely cleanses you off of condis, heals you the more condis you have on you, or it gives you the resistance boon for x number of seconds to off-set the damage.

So what you’re saying is that using plague effectively nukes you for between 9k and 14k over the duration? What the actual kitten is this.

Linnael.1069:

So what you’re saying is that using plague effectively nukes you for between 9k and 14k over the duration? What the actual kitten is this.

Haha, when you put it that way… losing 10k + health over the course of Plague is kind of ridiculous. I tried to work a way around it but it only really counts when attacking a group of enemies… and in places like sPvP you’re almost never going to hit the full enemy team with plague, so even with life siphons and what not the net effect would be a loss in HP.

I dunno man, the balance changes are a bit of like a kick in the nuts then a hug right after.