Guild Wars 2

Exos.3472:

And I cried… and cried… (20k dps)

Don’t fear the Reaper.

Yep, it pretty much went on like that for the last 50%.

dace.8019:

Exos.3472:

And I cried… and cried… (20k dps)

Don’t fear the Reaper.

Yep, it pretty much went on like that for the last 50%.

Which runes are you using?

Zabrios.6079:

dace.8019:

Exos.3472:

And I cried… and cried… (20k dps)

Don’t fear the Reaper.

Yep, it pretty much went on like that for the last 50%.

Which runes are you using?

Eagle for extra crit and to complement Gravedigger.

(two people PM’d so I’ll just put it here: was a normal pug run with no special setup or anything and yes, the boss is the golem with the pylons in CoE).

dace.8019:

Exos.3472:

And I cried… and cried… (20k dps)

Don’t fear the Reaper.

Yep, it pretty much went on like that for the last 50%.

25K GRAVE DIGGARZ!!!!!!!
kitten I love reaper.

BoogerSammich.7189:

dace.8019:

Exos.3472:

And I cried… and cried… (20k dps)

Don’t fear the Reaper.

Yep, it pretty much went on like that for the last 50%.

25K GRAVE DIGGARZ!!!!!!!
kitten I love reaper.

25k gravediggers still only puts you at ~12.5k DPS….Which is leagues behind sinister engi or zerker ele. Hell, I think that’s barely on par with ranger DPS.

Still, reaper is tanky enough to unload more perfect rotations in real situations (i.e. where your target is actually trying to kill you) than eles, engis, or rangers.

Reaper is not going to become the next meta profession or anything, but it’s fun as hell and I’m enjoying it.

Quarktastic.1027:

BoogerSammich.7189:

dace.8019:

Exos.3472:

And I cried… and cried… (20k dps)

Don’t fear the Reaper.

Yep, it pretty much went on like that for the last 50%.

25K GRAVE DIGGARZ!!!!!!!
kitten I love reaper.

25k gravediggers still only puts you at ~12.5k DPS….Which is leagues behind sinister engi or zerker ele. Hell, I think that’s barely on par with ranger DPS.

Still, reaper is tanky enough to unload more perfect rotations in real situations (i.e. where your target is actually trying to kill you) than eles, engis, or rangers.

Reaper is not going to become the next meta profession or anything, but it’s fun as hell and I’m enjoying it.

Oh, you have a DPS meter?
AWESOME! can i get it?

BoogerSammich.7189:

Quarktastic.1027:

BoogerSammich.7189:

dace.8019:

Exos.3472:

And I cried… and cried… (20k dps)

Don’t fear the Reaper.

Yep, it pretty much went on like that for the last 50%.

25K GRAVE DIGGARZ!!!!!!!
kitten I love reaper.

25k gravediggers still only puts you at ~12.5k DPS….Which is leagues behind sinister engi or zerker ele. Hell, I think that’s barely on par with ranger DPS.

Still, reaper is tanky enough to unload more perfect rotations in real situations (i.e. where your target is actually trying to kill you) than eles, engis, or rangers.

Reaper is not going to become the next meta profession or anything, but it’s fun as hell and I’m enjoying it.

Oh, you have a DPS meter?
AWESOME! can i get it?

Gravedigger, with aftercast, has a ~2 second cycle time, assuming you never miss and put it on full cooldown. Divide 25k by 2.

Sinister engineers can output 18-21k dps with perfect rotations, and berserker eles can output similar numbers.

You don’t really need a DPS meter when math exists. But all those numbers are only in theoretical situations where you’re essentially hitting a punching bag. In real situations, where there’s no such thing as a perfect rotation, the gap is much smaller, but there’s still a gap.

DPS isn’t the only measure of a profession’s usefulness either. Engineers and eles provide a great deal more group support than reapers, while still having better DPS. That’s why necromancers have never been “meta.” After all, why take a profession like a necromancer, when you can take one that is objectively better?

Soooo, then you don’t have a DPS meter?

So another 3 years of “NO NECRO” in lfg?…, only this time you won’t see /Ranger next to that

Other professions are getting de-tuned. Read the patch notes. There are more than just bug fixes in them.

Necromancer dps is was not as high in dps as pre-HoT in relation to other professions. I saw this in a drop in champ credit and loot but there have been at least two balance / bug patches since.

Substatic.6958:

So another 3 years of “NO NECRO” in lfg?…, only this time you won’t see /Ranger next to that

Nah, ranger will still be there…along with druid.

Raids might change the no druid part, but we’ll have to wait and see what anet has wrought.

@Quarktastic
I do love when ppl thinks that Gravedigger is the only damage ability… U know that while casting Gravediggers, there are pets, dots and wells?
ATM good reaper can easily sustain 14-17k dps while being far more tanky than ele or engi, that means u can dps for longer than the aforementioned clases

Naustis.8510:

@Quarktastic
I do love when ppl thinks that Gravedigger is the only damage ability… U know that while casting Gravediggers, there are pets, dots and wells?
ATM good reaper can easily sustain 14-17k dps while being far more tanky than ele or engi, that means u can dps for longer than the aforementioned clases

Given the lack of a DPS tool, i can’t confirm or agree with any actual numbers.
However, I can certainly agree with your general statement that Reaper, and really any class for that matter, can sustain comparable DPS to other classes.
Aside from exploits and broken mechanics, i would imagine that this is probably one of the foundational priorities considered when designing and refining any class.
Just sayin’.

I’m currently running a more balanced, hybrid approach using Viper’s weapons and Sinister gear. I’m running spite/soul/reaper and I swap my specific traits to exploit whatever I can so I can’t give you a rundown there. Running Greatsword and Sceptor/Dagger because that gives me all the versatility in the world as such I haven’t hit a single encounter yet that I can’t deal with. Point blank some encounters SUCK as melee. Or if I want to be more defensive I’ll swap to ranged. I will eventually start swapping in a staff for encounter specific mechanics but I don’t have an Ascended one yet as it is my least favorite skill set. The only downsides now are not being fully ranged and sometimes generation of life force lags for a bit but I get ranged enough and eventually work up life force in those situations. Rest of the time it’s melt face and outlast everyone.

With all that said

I’ll say that if anyone tells you that this version of Necro isn’t viable is extremely misinformed and further is BSing you.

^^This
15chars…

Since this is the only thread i’ve read in weeks that hasn’t been filled with fools and incorrect information/bad players with bad builds complaining, I’ll add to the conversation with my ultra-tanky power build.
Don’t let that confuse you, it still has similar numbers to full zerk, or valk but it doesn’t die if you can figure it out. (Soloing HoT champions)

Oh yeah, since literally every build-editor isn’t updated :

http://imgur.com/a/Uq5K6
Food is Dragonfish Candy and Furious Sharpening Stones, Runes and sigils:
Scrapper Runes
Force/Rage on the GS
Intelligence/Energy or Bloodlust/Energy on the staff.

Stat set is full cavalier, Corruptor’s Fervor is optional if you swap out 25% of the cavalier for valkyrie, It doesn’t make any sense to use it with diminishing returns as high as 4.2k armor though, UHS is way better for most encounters anyway.

I’m pretty convinced the offensive stats are similar to a zerk reaper in a organized group providing might/vuln (100% crit, 233%+ crit damage 2700+ power with 0 might self-buffed) It also works perfectly fine with a necromancer wells build running DM/SR/BM.

I’ve also commanded with the base necromancer build on Ehmry Bay and more recently Darkhaven for about a year, it works perfectly in solo roaming, zerging, open-world PvE and will hopefully function fine in raids, as tank/brawler orientations are much more important there over zerk which is being phased out quite clearly by anet.

Lastly, if you’re curious why i’m not using Spite/valk as most are, it is because you’d die easier and do less damage when the enemy is above 50% health doing that, Compare this to say either of Brazil’s tank/damage builds, if you’d like.

Message me ingame whenever if anyone wants some more information on this, i’ll be putting out a actual guide within the month, but i felt like i needed to get this out there.
(More specifically i’d like to have a chat with Nemesis whenever he has some free time!)

edit: And yes, i’m counting reaper shroud numbers, this is a shroud-centric build so expect that, you can’t get this level of defense/offense balance otherwise.

Oh, and Happy Halloween, everyone!

Nofaith De Morte.1027:

I’m currently running a more balanced, hybrid approach using Viper’s weapons and Sinister gear. I’m running spite/soul/reaper and I swap my specific traits to exploit whatever I can so I can’t give you a rundown there. Running Greatsword and Sceptor/Dagger because that gives me all the versatility in the world as such I haven’t hit a single encounter yet that I can’t deal with. Point blank some encounters SUCK as melee. Or if I want to be more defensive I’ll swap to ranged. I will eventually start swapping in a staff for encounter specific mechanics but I don’t have an Ascended one yet as it is my least favorite skill set. The only downsides now are not being fully ranged and sometimes generation of life force lags for a bit but I get ranged enough and eventually work up life force in those situations. Rest of the time it’s melt face and outlast everyone.

With all that said

I’ll say that if anyone tells you that this version of Necro isn’t viable is extremely misinformed and further is BSing you.

Viable is a loaded word. GW2 is designed with the approach that every spec/profession is viable. But there’s no such thing as perfect balance, and some professions will always be more optimal than others at certain content.

Necromancers are very self sustaining, but also very selfish. Their lack of group support tends to make them less viable in group content, especially in PvE. Granted, a team of nothing but necromancers can still complete any content in the game*. The issue is: people want to farm content for rewards, and demand it be completed as efficiently as possible so as to not waste time. Certain group compositions will always complete a given content faster than others. Necromancers aren’t currently included in that group composition*.

*Current as of October 31st 2015

Scott Lockharte.3412:

Since this is the only thread i’ve read in weeks that hasn’t been filled with fools and incorrect information/bad players with bad builds complaining, I’ll add to the conversation with my ultra-tanky power build.
Don’t let that confuse you, it still has similar numbers to full zerk, or valk but it doesn’t die if you can figure it out. (Soloing HoT champions)

Oh yeah, since literally every build-editor isn’t updated :

http://imgur.com/a/Uq5K6
Food is Dragonfish Candy and Furious Sharpening Stones, Runes and sigils:
Scrapper Runes
Force/Rage on the GS
Intelligence/Energy or Bloodlust/Energy on the staff.

Stat set is full cavalier, Corruptor’s Fervor is optional if you swap out 25% of the cavalier for valkyrie, It doesn’t make any sense to use it with diminishing returns as high as 4.2k armor though, UHS is way better for most encounters anyway.

I’m pretty convinced the offensive stats are similar to a zerk reaper in a organized group providing might/vuln (100% crit, 233%+ crit damage 2700+ power with 0 might self-buffed) It also works perfectly fine with a necromancer wells build running DM/SR/BM.

I’ve also commanded with the base necromancer build on Ehmry Bay and more recently Darkhaven for about a year, it works perfectly in solo roaming, zerging, open-world PvE and will hopefully function fine in raids, as tank/brawler orientations are much more important there over zerk which is being phased out quite clearly by anet.

Lastly, if you’re curious why i’m not using Spite/valk as most are, it is because you’d die easier and do less damage when the enemy is above 50% health doing that, Compare this to say either of Brazil’s tank/damage builds, if you’d like.

Message me ingame whenever if anyone wants some more information on this, i’ll be putting out a actual guide within the month, but i felt like i needed to get this out there.
(More specifically i’d like to have a chat with Nemesis whenever he has some free time!)

edit: And yes, i’m counting reaper shroud numbers, this is a shroud-centric build so expect that, you can’t get this level of defense/offense balance otherwise.

Oh, and Happy Halloween, everyone!

The build is interesting, but I have misgivings about it dealing more damage than a valkyrie/spite reaper to enemies above 50% health. Taking deadly strength into account, you still have about 12% less power than a valkyrie/spite reaper. And you also lose the might stacking component of shroud 1.

Quarktastic.1027:

Scott Lockharte.3412:

Snip

The build is interesting, but I have misgivings about it dealing more damage than a valkyrie/spite reaper to enemies above 50% health. Taking deadly strength into account, you still have about 12% less power than a valkyrie/spite reaper. And you also lose the might stacking component of shroud 1.

That’s where furious sharpening stones come in, the total offensive conversion is 24%, the incredibly high ferocity makes up for the power greatly.

edit: So since i don’t think i elaborated on my theory, i will now, My theory is basically that with this amount of conversions (24%) you can achieve same-or-greater damage with no loss to defense, where losing defense is the norm with berserker.

Traits / party buffs affecting toughness also convert, By default, you’re getting 180 extra toughness thrown in to convert, and up to 700 (480 with just corruptor’s, 700 or so with a minions build running flesh of the master).

Say you have a guardian giving his passive buff, the guardians is 150 toughness, 24% of that is being converted to offensive stats when with a berserker build it would be 6% with ordinary stones, with near no difference to offense.

I’ve hit upwards of 4.5-4.6k armor with this fully-buffed, that is what i mean by not losing defense.

If my theory is wrong, Then oh well, you have a build with a small loss to damage and a incredible gain in defenses, which is still incredibly useful anywhere

Quarktastic.1027:

Nofaith De Morte.1027:

I’m currently running a more balanced, hybrid approach using Viper’s weapons and Sinister gear. I’m running spite/soul/reaper and I swap my specific traits to exploit whatever I can so I can’t give you a rundown there. Running Greatsword and Sceptor/Dagger because that gives me all the versatility in the world as such I haven’t hit a single encounter yet that I can’t deal with. Point blank some encounters SUCK as melee. Or if I want to be more defensive I’ll swap to ranged. I will eventually start swapping in a staff for encounter specific mechanics but I don’t have an Ascended one yet as it is my least favorite skill set. The only downsides now are not being fully ranged and sometimes generation of life force lags for a bit but I get ranged enough and eventually work up life force in those situations. Rest of the time it’s melt face and outlast everyone.

With all that said

I’ll say that if anyone tells you that this version of Necro isn’t viable is extremely misinformed and further is BSing you.

Viable is a loaded word. GW2 is designed with the approach that every spec/profession is viable. But there’s no such thing as perfect balance, and some professions will always be more optimal than others at certain content.

Necromancers are very self sustaining, but also very selfish. Their lack of group support tends to make them less viable in group content, especially in PvE. Granted, a team of nothing but necromancers can still complete any content in the game*. The issue is: people want to farm content for rewards, and demand it be completed as efficiently as possible so as to not waste time. Certain group compositions will always complete a given content faster than others. Necromancers aren’t currently included in that group composition*.

*Current as of October 31st 2015

I agree with this EXCEPT that necros are starting to have atleast some party utility now with recent changes. Still not nearly as much as other classes, but I think it should be pointed out. Taking the little utility we have should be a requirement for every build.

Things like corrosive poison cloud for projectile destory, well of darkness / plague / night fall (if you have HOT) for blinds, and flesh golem for eating hits and decimating stability bars. Yes, other classes do it better, but there is no excuse for necros to not do so.

Scott Lockharte.3412:

Quarktastic.1027:

Scott Lockharte.3412:

Snip

The build is interesting, but I have misgivings about it dealing more damage than a valkyrie/spite reaper to enemies above 50% health. Taking deadly strength into account, you still have about 12% less power than a valkyrie/spite reaper. And you also lose the might stacking component of shroud 1.

That’s where furious sharpening stones come in, the total offensive conversion is 24%, the incredibly high ferocity makes up for the power greatly.

edit: So since i don’t think i elaborated on my theory, i will now, My theory is basically that with this amount of conversions (24%) you can achieve same-or-greater damage with no loss to defense, where losing defense is the norm with berserker.

Traits / party buffs affecting toughness also convert, By default, you’re getting 180 extra toughness thrown in to convert, and up to 700 (480 with just corruptor’s, 700 or so with a minions build running flesh of the master).

Say you have a guardian giving his passive buff, the guardians is 150 toughness, 24% of that is being converted to offensive stats when with a berserker build it would be 6% with ordinary stones, with near no difference to offense.

I’ve hit upwards of 4.5-4.6k armor with this fully-buffed, that is what i mean by not losing defense.

I didn’t know Furious Sharpening Stones existed, but now that I do, I might have to go back to some Cavalier action.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Scott Lockharte.3412:

Quarktastic.1027:

Scott Lockharte.3412:

Snip

The build is interesting, but I have misgivings about it dealing more damage than a valkyrie/spite reaper to enemies above 50% health. Taking deadly strength into account, you still have about 12% less power than a valkyrie/spite reaper. And you also lose the might stacking component of shroud 1.

That’s where furious sharpening stones come in, the total offensive conversion is 24%, the incredibly high ferocity makes up for the power greatly.

edit: So since i don’t think i elaborated on my theory, i will now, My theory is basically that with this amount of conversions (24%) you can achieve same-or-greater damage with no loss to defense, where losing defense is the norm with berserker.

Traits / party buffs affecting toughness also convert, By default, you’re getting 180 extra toughness thrown in to convert, and up to 700 (480 with just corruptor’s, 700 or so with a minions build running flesh of the master).

Say you have a guardian giving his passive buff, the guardians is 150 toughness, 24% of that is being converted to offensive stats when with a berserker build it would be 6% with ordinary stones, with near no difference to offense.

I’ve hit upwards of 4.5-4.6k armor with this fully-buffed, that is what i mean by not losing defense.

I didn’t know Furious Sharpening Stones existed, but now that I do, I might have to go back to some Cavalier action.

If you don’t mind spending ~4g an hour for 200-300 extra ferocity, by all means.

I’m not willing to throw away that much gold so easily however.

Quarktastic.1027:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Scott Lockharte.3412:

Quarktastic.1027:

Scott Lockharte.3412:

Snip

The build is interesting, but I have misgivings about it dealing more damage than a valkyrie/spite reaper to enemies above 50% health. Taking deadly strength into account, you still have about 12% less power than a valkyrie/spite reaper. And you also lose the might stacking component of shroud 1.

That’s where furious sharpening stones come in, the total offensive conversion is 24%, the incredibly high ferocity makes up for the power greatly.

edit: So since i don’t think i elaborated on my theory, i will now, My theory is basically that with this amount of conversions (24%) you can achieve same-or-greater damage with no loss to defense, where losing defense is the norm with berserker.

Traits / party buffs affecting toughness also convert, By default, you’re getting 180 extra toughness thrown in to convert, and up to 700 (480 with just corruptor’s, 700 or so with a minions build running flesh of the master).

Say you have a guardian giving his passive buff, the guardians is 150 toughness, 24% of that is being converted to offensive stats when with a berserker build it would be 6% with ordinary stones, with near no difference to offense.

I’ve hit upwards of 4.5-4.6k armor with this fully-buffed, that is what i mean by not losing defense.

I didn’t know Furious Sharpening Stones existed, but now that I do, I might have to go back to some Cavalier action.

If you don’t mind spending ~4g an hour for 200-300 extra ferocity, by all means.

I’m not willing to throw away that much gold so easily however.

Sorry but where are you getting that number? Furious sharpening stones are about 20 silver each day-to-day, you can get 5 for a gold or so, and 5 for around 20 silver if you make charged quartz crystals yourself by using home-instance mining.

edit: The difference in crit damage is around 20%, Plus it adds 100 toughness, so i don’t know where you’re getting the other number either -.-

Screenshots to substantiate my numbers: http://imgur.com/a/H6n4v

Quarktastic.1027:

Viable is a loaded word. GW2 is designed with the approach that every spec/profession is viable. But there’s no such thing as perfect balance, and some professions will always be more optimal than others at certain content.

Necromancers are very self sustaining, but also very selfish. Their lack of group support tends to make them less viable in group content, especially in PvE. Granted, a team of nothing but necromancers can still complete any content in the game*. The issue is: people want to farm content for rewards, and demand it be completed as efficiently as possible so as to not waste time. Certain group compositions will always complete a given content faster than others. Necromancers aren’t currently included in that group composition*.

*Current as of October 31st 2015

Let me start by saying thank you for your response and being civil within.

Viable is a loaded word but it really doesn’t have to be. I think that in most instances people will agree that by the definition of the word, capable of working successfully; feasible, Necromancers are very viable in this xpac.

You said there is no such thing as perfect balance and I suppose that’s true. But I think that means your definition of balance is too rigid. If by that you mean that all classes are exactly the same in all situations then what’s the difference? Ok, you may have meant all classes should finish every encounter in the game with identical numbers of _______ in every category of data. That’s impossible, I agree. But if you definition is all within say a standard deviation then balance is very possible and I would argue we’re relatively close to that in game.

Ok, how about patchwork data to compare? That’s flawed because that isn’t the in game model so who cares? By using an arbitrary measurement to base an entire argument on it’s then makes that argument irreverent in my opinion. This game was built to be dynamic and a mechanic like dodge roll reflects just one of the million reasons why a patchwork model isn’t representative for in game data, therefor saying Necromancer in game isn’t as good as _______ is seriously misinformed in my opinion.

Lack of group support in what sense? And not as much _______ as this class is rooted in the same fundamental flaw as a patchwork model to represent real in game data, again in my opinion. I can spec blood and burst heal in shroud like nobody. I can AoE like nobody. I can self sustain so that I don’t burden anyone so I don’t really understand the selfish argument at all. Who can bring more stuff, survive better, do better damage all at the same time? If the answer is all or almost all then we have a real huge problem. If the answer is most, ok that’s concerning and we have a problem. If the answer is one or two, well that’s not really a problem. If the answer is none you’re probably op.

As for the issue being people want to farm content for rewards, and demand it be completed as efficiently as possible so as to not waste time. That’s a mentality that isn’t going anywhere anytime soon unfortunately. To them I would say just this, as a necro I can tag every mob that’s around the zerg getting more sweet loots in a shorter amount of time and that makes it more efficient. Running maps is a pretty darn good way to the sweet loots. But if there is a place in game where necro isn’t the best then so be it. It’s relatively good at a lot of things in my opinion.

Certain group comps completing some content faster? Yeah, I agree that certainly exists and hopefully with further tuning the gap between comps is narrowed. But one group being better than another group, all while both can eventually complete the content, is a pretty kitten sweet spot and not a lot of MMO’s can even come close.

Ok last edit: An accurate dps meter would help too. But do we want this game reduced to a meter like another game ended up being. That “world” sorta actually sucked because of the meter.

TLDR; it’s not that simple and can’t possibly be summed up in a word.

While soloing my fractal daily… It’s something, I guess.
Yeah I know it doesn’t say much etc. (I don’t even know how much armor the Champ has, probably no too much on 23) but it’s nice to see that we can hit those numbers and technically go beyond them in a party.

Quarktastic.1027:

BoogerSammich.7189:

Quarktastic.1027:

BoogerSammich.7189:

dace.8019:

Exos.3472:

And I cried… and cried… (20k dps)

Don’t fear the Reaper.

Yep, it pretty much went on like that for the last 50%.

25K GRAVE DIGGARZ!!!!!!!
kitten I love reaper.

25k gravediggers still only puts you at ~12.5k DPS….Which is leagues behind sinister engi or zerker ele. Hell, I think that’s barely on par with ranger DPS.

Still, reaper is tanky enough to unload more perfect rotations in real situations (i.e. where your target is actually trying to kill you) than eles, engis, or rangers.

Reaper is not going to become the next meta profession or anything, but it’s fun as hell and I’m enjoying it.

Oh, you have a DPS meter?
AWESOME! can i get it?

Gravedigger, with aftercast, has a ~2 second cycle time, assuming you never miss and put it on full cooldown. Divide 25k by 2.

Sinister engineers can output 18-21k dps with perfect rotations, and berserker eles can output similar numbers.

You don’t really need a DPS meter when math exists. But all those numbers are only in theoretical situations where you’re essentially hitting a punching bag. In real situations, where there’s no such thing as a perfect rotation, the gap is much smaller, but there’s still a gap.

DPS isn’t the only measure of a profession’s usefulness either. Engineers and eles provide a great deal more group support than reapers, while still having better DPS. That’s why necromancers have never been “meta.” After all, why take a profession like a necromancer, when you can take one that is objectively better?

It does not put out 18-21K DPS… neither do elementalists. Anyone who says otherwise can direct me to the video proof, and i will calculate the DPS for you guys live on twitch.

The mystical 20K DPS condition engineer and berserker elementalist, which no one has ever seen for over 2 years… since they were “advertised” to the community.

Even Nike and Spoj, the ones who created the math in a void calculations in the first place, recently admitted the math-in-e-void numbers do not match reality after i’ve put them on the spot nonstop for a few days.

Btw… an unknown % of the calculations come from DeKeyz, and as Brazil has told me from his time with DnT… she gave them the numbers, never showed them the math… so a lot of the people who advertise these numbers have no idea how they got them in the first place, that’s why they never answer questions… it’s not their calculations, so they can’t explain how they reached those conclusions.

Like i said… if anyone wishes to show proof to back up claimed numbers, i will do the work for them, for free… and calculate the REAL DPS values.

This offer remains open… indefinitely…

PS: all void calculations are irrelevant regardless if they match reality or not, they can’t even be trusted to make comparisons between builds.

http://9gag.com/gag/a1YBEM6 this gifs explains everything in a few seconds…

Nemesis.8593:

Quarktastic.1027:

BoogerSammich.7189:

Quarktastic.1027:

BoogerSammich.7189:

dace.8019:

Exos.3472:

And I cried… and cried… (20k dps)

Don’t fear the Reaper.

Yep, it pretty much went on like that for the last 50%.

25K GRAVE DIGGARZ!!!!!!!
kitten I love reaper.

25k gravediggers still only puts you at ~12.5k DPS….Which is leagues behind sinister engi or zerker ele. Hell, I think that’s barely on par with ranger DPS.

Still, reaper is tanky enough to unload more perfect rotations in real situations (i.e. where your target is actually trying to kill you) than eles, engis, or rangers.

Reaper is not going to become the next meta profession or anything, but it’s fun as hell and I’m enjoying it.

Oh, you have a DPS meter?
AWESOME! can i get it?

Gravedigger, with aftercast, has a ~2 second cycle time, assuming you never miss and put it on full cooldown. Divide 25k by 2.

Sinister engineers can output 18-21k dps with perfect rotations, and berserker eles can output similar numbers.

You don’t really need a DPS meter when math exists. But all those numbers are only in theoretical situations where you’re essentially hitting a punching bag. In real situations, where there’s no such thing as a perfect rotation, the gap is much smaller, but there’s still a gap.

DPS isn’t the only measure of a profession’s usefulness either. Engineers and eles provide a great deal more group support than reapers, while still having better DPS. That’s why necromancers have never been “meta.” After all, why take a profession like a necromancer, when you can take one that is objectively better?

It does not put out 18-21K DPS… neither do elementalists. Anyone who says otherwise can direct me to the video proof, and i will calculate the DPS for you guys live on twitch.

The mystical 20K DPS condition engineer and berserker elementalist, which no one has ever seen for over 2 years… since they were “advertised” to the community.

I mentioned perfect rotations and theoretical situations where the enemy doesn’t fight back. Obviously real numbers would be lower, but without an accurate meter to test such numbers, all we can rely on is our own napkin math.

Scott Lockharte.3412:

Quarktastic.1027:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Scott Lockharte.3412:

Quarktastic.1027:

Scott Lockharte.3412:

Snip

The build is interesting, but I have misgivings about it dealing more damage than a valkyrie/spite reaper to enemies above 50% health. Taking deadly strength into account, you still have about 12% less power than a valkyrie/spite reaper. And you also lose the might stacking component of shroud 1.

That’s where furious sharpening stones come in, the total offensive conversion is 24%, the incredibly high ferocity makes up for the power greatly.

edit: So since i don’t think i elaborated on my theory, i will now, My theory is basically that with this amount of conversions (24%) you can achieve same-or-greater damage with no loss to defense, where losing defense is the norm with berserker.

Traits / party buffs affecting toughness also convert, By default, you’re getting 180 extra toughness thrown in to convert, and up to 700 (480 with just corruptor’s, 700 or so with a minions build running flesh of the master).

Say you have a guardian giving his passive buff, the guardians is 150 toughness, 24% of that is being converted to offensive stats when with a berserker build it would be 6% with ordinary stones, with near no difference to offense.

I’ve hit upwards of 4.5-4.6k armor with this fully-buffed, that is what i mean by not losing defense.

I didn’t know Furious Sharpening Stones existed, but now that I do, I might have to go back to some Cavalier action.

If you don’t mind spending ~4g an hour for 200-300 extra ferocity, by all means.

I’m not willing to throw away that much gold so easily however.

Sorry but where are you getting that number? Furious sharpening stones are about 20 silver each day-to-day, you can get 5 for a gold or so, and 5 for around 20 silver if you make charged quartz crystals yourself by using home-instance mining.

edit: The difference in crit damage is around 20%, Plus it adds 100 toughness, so i don’t know where you’re getting the other number either -.-

Screenshots to substantiate my numbers: http://imgur.com/a/H6n4v

I seem to have forgotten that sharpening stone recipes produce 5 at a time as opposed to 1. The other number: take your current toughness (with the sharpening stone buff included) and multiply by 0.1. That’s how much ferocity you’re getting.

Been working on some calculations to work out optimal rotations etc. Heres some of the stuff so far: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1flyI2qHv704UUVYqIJeuo6IzY_J0gXAT623eMY38twI/edit?usp=sharing

If anyone has correct aftercasts for skills, that input would be much appreciated.

spoj.9672:

Been working on some calculations to work out optimal rotations etc. Heres some of the stuff so far: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1flyI2qHv704UUVYqIJeuo6IzY_J0gXAT623eMY38twI/edit?usp=sharing

If anyone has correct aftercasts for skills, that input would be much appreciated.

You continue to teach people to play the game based on math in a void which is 100% fake an irrelevant, instead of in game mechanics… even though you actually recently admitted your numbers do not reflect reality.

I already saw the “heavy armor” legendary champion wipe out an entire zerg of melee berserkers at Mordremoth chain events, and merely 2-3 seconds later you had at least 20-30 people complaining that this boss is wayyyy too hard.

Your calculations you and your friends do will ruin raids, people will use improper builds for the raids… do 2K REAL DPS… die… complain to nerf content until it can be done with your bad fake math builds.

Stop.

Edit: the mere fact we are in a “is necromancer DPS viable” thread is proof enough that you and you friends actually manage to make the community think necromancer has low DPS compared to a warrior, elementalist and so on… and has no range DPS.

Range bursting type DPS = Lich Form – i hit 16K each hit and i can do almost 3 hits by the time a 1x 100B skill is done… which means the 100B hit has to be 48K and he has to do… how many of them in a row with no CD to match it ?… Not to mention the safety of that range…

Range sustain type DPS = hybrid… average ~ 5 – 9K REAL DPS, about as much as a berzerker warrior gets on bloomhunger… but then again you only bring sustain DPS in fights where you need sustain and not burst, and in those fights bursting type builds fall short… really short…

Ascalonian – berserker warrior drops from 9-10K to ~ 5K
Vulcanic – bserker warrior drops from 9-10K to ~ 2K

I can outdps them with a sustain build by auto-attacking…

Math is 100% meaningless… mechanics > all.

STOP.

Ez. We do 80k DPS.

spoj.9672:

Been working on some calculations to work out optimal rotations etc. Heres some of the stuff so far: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1flyI2qHv704UUVYqIJeuo6IzY_J0gXAT623eMY38twI/edit?usp=sharing

If anyone has correct aftercasts for skills, that input would be much appreciated.

Appreciate your efforts. Thanks for putting in the time.

CastIron.7364:

spoj.9672:

Been working on some calculations to work out optimal rotations etc. Heres some of the stuff so far: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1flyI2qHv704UUVYqIJeuo6IzY_J0gXAT623eMY38twI/edit?usp=sharing

If anyone has correct aftercasts for skills, that input would be much appreciated.

Appreciate your efforts. Thanks for putting in the time.

This info is from wiki… and wiki can be wrong at times, not to mention that the information from the wiki is gathered from GW2 tooltips… which sometimes were also inaccurate, especially after the release of an expansion.

Basically unverified information taken from somewhere else… and no aftercast…

Raids are going to be fun.

spoj.9672:

Been working on some calculations to work out optimal rotations etc. Heres some of the stuff so far: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1flyI2qHv704UUVYqIJeuo6IzY_J0gXAT623eMY38twI/edit?usp=sharing

If anyone has correct aftercasts for skills, that input would be much appreciated.

Thanks! It’s going to be a lot easier to determine rotations and priorities with that info all gathered up

Nemesis.8593:

CastIron.7364:

spoj.9672:

Been working on some calculations to work out optimal rotations etc. Heres some of the stuff so far: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1flyI2qHv704UUVYqIJeuo6IzY_J0gXAT623eMY38twI/edit?usp=sharing

If anyone has correct aftercasts for skills, that input would be much appreciated.

Appreciate your efforts. Thanks for putting in the time.

This info is from wiki… and wiki can be wrong at times, not to mention that the information from the wiki is gathered from GW2 tooltips… which sometimes were also inaccurate, especially after the release of an expansion.

Basically unverified information taken from somewhere else… and no aftercast…

Raids are going to be fun.

Its not from the wiki. This has all been calculated from ingame. Some of it matches the wiki some of it doesnt…

And i said i dont have aftercasts for everything. And any input on aftercasts for certain skills would be appreciated. Rather than continueing to be a kitten why dont you tell me all the aftercasts so i can update the data to be completely accurate. Im not trying to decieve people. I want this to be as accurate as possible for mine and others benefit. So please correct any numbers i have.

Only aftercasts i have confirmed are gravedigger spam, greatsword auto, ghastly claws, life blast and dagger auto. I havent checked any single cast skills and i havent confirmed the other auto attacks yet.

Nemesis.8593:

spoj.9672:

Been working on some calculations to work out optimal rotations etc. Heres some of the stuff so far: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1flyI2qHv704UUVYqIJeuo6IzY_J0gXAT623eMY38twI/edit?usp=sharing

If anyone has correct aftercasts for skills, that input would be much appreciated.

You continue to teach people to play the game based on math in a void which is 100% fake an irrelevant, instead of in game mechanics… even though you actually recently admitted your numbers do not reflect reality.

I already saw the “heavy armor” legendary champion wipe out an entire zerg of melee berserkers at Mordremoth chain events, and merely 2-3 seconds later you had at least 20-30 people complaining that this boss is wayyyy too hard.

Your calculations you and your friends do will ruin raids, people will use improper builds for the raids… do 2K REAL DPS… die… complain to nerf content until it can be done with your bad fake math builds.

Stop.

snip

Nemesis. How else are we supposed to determine the best builds and the best skills to use in a rotation if we dont use math to confirm value for cast time? Math in a void has its use. Its the same use ive always advocated it for; theorycrafting the optimum. Reality doesnt match. But you still want to use the same skills you worked out as the best and math is important in determining that. Guessing based on the numbers you see has no value. Because that does not accurately take into account cast times, aftercasts and cooldowns.

Ive already made some interesting discoveries with this data. Which i never would have worked out by guessing…

And i havent even started plugging in stats and determining whether secondary effects like poison, burn, lifesteal and chill shift the optimum in unexpected ways.

spoj.9672:

Nemesis.8593:

spoj.9672:

Been working on some calculations to work out optimal rotations etc. Heres some of the stuff so far: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1flyI2qHv704UUVYqIJeuo6IzY_J0gXAT623eMY38twI/edit?usp=sharing

If anyone has correct aftercasts for skills, that input would be much appreciated.

You continue to teach people to play the game based on math in a void which is 100% fake an irrelevant, instead of in game mechanics… even though you actually recently admitted your numbers do not reflect reality.

I already saw the “heavy armor” legendary champion wipe out an entire zerg of melee berserkers at Mordremoth chain events, and merely 2-3 seconds later you had at least 20-30 people complaining that this boss is wayyyy too hard.

Your calculations you and your friends do will ruin raids, people will use improper builds for the raids… do 2K REAL DPS… die… complain to nerf content until it can be done with your bad fake math builds.

Stop.

snip

Nemesis. How else are we supposed to determine the best builds and the best skills to use in a rotation if we dont use math to confirm value for cast time? Math in a void has its use. Its the same use ive always advocated it for; theorycrafting the optimum. Reality doesnt match. But you still want to use the same skills you worked out as the best and math is important in determining that. Guessing based on the numbers you see has no value. Because that does not accurately take into account cast times, aftercasts and cooldowns.

Ive already made some interesting discoveries with this data. Which i never would have worked out by guessing…

And i havent even started plugging in stats and determining whether secondary effects like poison, burn, lifesteal and chill shift the optimum in unexpected ways.

The last time the numbers were ran Necro ended up being kicked from groups for 2 years. The funny thing is when tested those numbers may well of been wrong. 2 years of Necro being the punchline because of faulty numbers.

Why should anyone be interested now after the damage the first lot did?

I was a keen theorycrafter in my time with WoW. Spreadsheets, DPS simulations the works because the numbers could be verified with actual in game confirmation.

In GW2 is more a case of some napkin math, no practical considerations of game mechanics and then ban half the classes from high end content.

Nemesis, every post you make is destructive and serves only to try to undermine someone else.

If you want to disprove them, try doing it constructively. Show us what you’re doing and how you’re doing it. Everything you have ever said has required me to take your word for it, from your ability to calculate DPS on videos to your claims of “REAL DPS” numbers. Honestly, I have no reason to trust you, and won’t until you make more of an effort to contribute instead of undermine.

Im only interesting in exposing the truth. How people use that is none of my concern. Reaper is much better utility wise now. So the problem of 2 years should hardly be a concern now anyway.

spoj.9672:

Nemesis.8593:

spoj.9672:

Been working on some calculations to work out optimal rotations etc. Heres some of the stuff so far: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1flyI2qHv704UUVYqIJeuo6IzY_J0gXAT623eMY38twI/edit?usp=sharing

If anyone has correct aftercasts for skills, that input would be much appreciated.

You continue to teach people to play the game based on math in a void which is 100% fake an irrelevant, instead of in game mechanics… even though you actually recently admitted your numbers do not reflect reality.

I already saw the “heavy armor” legendary champion wipe out an entire zerg of melee berserkers at Mordremoth chain events, and merely 2-3 seconds later you had at least 20-30 people complaining that this boss is wayyyy too hard.

Your calculations you and your friends do will ruin raids, people will use improper builds for the raids… do 2K REAL DPS… die… complain to nerf content until it can be done with your bad fake math builds.

Stop.

snip

Nemesis. How else are we supposed to determine the best builds and the best skills to use in a rotation if we dont use math to confirm value for cast time? Math in a void has its use. Its the same use ive always advocated it for; theorycrafting the optimum. Reality doesnt match. But you still want to use the same skills you worked out as the best and math is important in determining that. Guessing based on the numbers you see has no value. Because that does not accurately take into account cast times, aftercasts and cooldowns.

Ive already made some interesting discoveries with this data. Which i never would have worked out by guessing…

And i havent even started plugging in stats and determining whether secondary effects like poison, burn, lifesteal and chill shift the optimum in unexpected ways.

Spoj, just… just stop. He’ll never get it.
That being said, thanks for the calculations, that will probably prove quite useful once I get everything on there. lol
As for Death’s Charge, yeah, the last hit does the main part of the damage with the first ones probably just being there for the projectile destruction (there was a note on that damage number, hence why I’m saying this)

Yeah i confirmed it. Deaths charge tooltip shows the big hit. There are 9 additional hits which do 10% of the tooltip. So its actually quite a nice dps boost to cast.

spoj.9672:

Nemesis.8593:

spoj.9672:

Been working on some calculations to work out optimal rotations etc. Heres some of the stuff so far: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1flyI2qHv704UUVYqIJeuo6IzY_J0gXAT623eMY38twI/edit?usp=sharing

If anyone has correct aftercasts for skills, that input would be much appreciated.

You continue to teach people to play the game based on math in a void which is 100% fake an irrelevant, instead of in game mechanics… even though you actually recently admitted your numbers do not reflect reality.

I already saw the “heavy armor” legendary champion wipe out an entire zerg of melee berserkers at Mordremoth chain events, and merely 2-3 seconds later you had at least 20-30 people complaining that this boss is wayyyy too hard.

Your calculations you and your friends do will ruin raids, people will use improper builds for the raids… do 2K REAL DPS… die… complain to nerf content until it can be done with your bad fake math builds.

Stop.

snip

Nemesis. How else are we supposed to determine the best builds and the best skills to use in a rotation if we dont use math to confirm value for cast time? Math in a void has its use. Its the same use ive always advocated it for; theorycrafting the optimum. Reality doesnt match. But you still want to use the same skills you worked out as the best and math is important in determining that. Guessing based on the numbers you see has no value. Because that does not accurately take into account cast times, aftercasts and cooldowns.

Ive already made some interesting discoveries with this data. Which i never would have worked out by guessing…

And i havent even started plugging in stats and determining whether secondary effects like poison, burn, lifesteal and chill shift the optimum in unexpected ways.

Figured out how to account for DPS uptime in math yet ?… Because it differs from encounter to encounter, and build to build. Claiming 100% DPS uptime is just one of the groundbreaking flaws of math in a void.

The “heavy armor” legendary champion proved that easy…

Simply put math in a void will NEVER… EVER… show that condition builds > power builds, even though based on the mechanics of certain fights i can auto-attack a condition build and do more DPS then a full berserker played at Brazil’s skill level with a premade group.

Raids are coming… math in a void will get people killed…

2nd thing math in a void doesn’t take into consideration is melee vs range dodge cycles.
1 dodge = 1 sec DPS downtime (+1 sec repositioning melee only)
With vigor on you can dodge 5 times in 30 sec, if you do dodge 5 times in 30 sec you lose between 5 to 10 seconds of DPS uptime… that’s a 15-30% DPS loss for melee only.

Of course on paper melee DPS is higher then ranged DPS… exactly to compensate for the danger of being in melee… otherwise NO ONE… would EVER play melee.
Why go squishy melee when you can be safe at range and have more DPS.

And there is so much more math in a void never takes into consideration…

That’s why you end up with numbers like 20K DPS engineer… that in reality does like 9K DPS.

The only thing that math in a void can determine is the value of a skill in a damage rotation, is it worth it to press it… or is it worth it to just auto-attack instead.

That’s all… no comparison between builds… and definitely no real DPS…

Just a little hint. Calculating damage* uptime comes after actually determining the optimal skills and builds to use. Im not at that stage.

I just explicitly said what im doing here is to determine whether skills are worth using in a rotation. So i honestly dont know why you are being a kitten about it.

The only thing that math in a void can determine is the value of a skill in a damage rotation, is it worth it to press it… or is it worth it to just auto-attack instead.

This is what i said im doing….

Btw ive never calculated dps for engineer or most classes. And whenever i do necro i list all assumptions. Like i said im not trying to deceive anyone.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Nemesis, every post you make is destructive and serves only to try to undermine someone else.

If you want to disprove them, try doing it constructively. Show us what you’re doing and how you’re doing it. Everything you have ever said has required me to take your word for it, from your ability to calculate DPS on videos to your claims of “REAL DPS” numbers. Honestly, I have no reason to trust you, and won’t until you make more of an effort to contribute instead of undermine.

Destructive ?… You want me to agree with fake numbers or ?…

To anyone who has ever disagreed with me on the topic i said the following:
“show me your best footage, and i will calculate its DPS for you, for free… live on twitch”

If they have nothing to hide why hasn’t anyone taken me up on my offer yet ?…

My proof is online for everyone to check, i even let the full fights in with the combat log turned on… anyone who wishes to verify my work is free to do so.
I have absolutely nothing to hide.

However… the people who disagree with me on the matter, don’t even want to provide plays so that I can do the work for them… for free… it’s because they know none of their claimed DPS comes even close to reality… and even knowing that, they still continue on with fake numbers…

“Show us what you’re doing and how you’re doing it”
Really want to see a video in which i add numbers for 25 minutes with my glasses on ?

I hope i won’t hear you guys say raids are too difficult when they come out, i know more then half the community will try to attack the bosses as if they are target dummies so that they do 25K DPS on Revenant… as DnT Obal advertised…

Spoj is trying to evaluate our abilities to determine what the most effective rotation might be. Nemesis, you’re just spitting in people’s faces. And please stop using “… for free…” in your posts. It makes you sound like you want to be some sort of sleezy salesman who nickel and dimes everyone for any service provided.

I also wouldn’t trust you to add up the numbers properly, anyway. At this point, based on your demeanor, I honestly believe you would fudge the numbers just to make someone look bad. Objectivity is at the heart of good data analysis, and you have a personal vendetta against some people.

I personally have an inkling Necro will carve out a niche in raids once the content releases and people start to get creative. However, what Spoj is doing is also interesting and important. Anything that helps you better understand a class is cool and should be shared.

You don’t have to agree with anything. But if you disagree, you can do it constructively. Steer the discussion in the proper direction, ensuring people know that rotations should often be more considered priority lists of abilities, as moving in a fight can disrupt a strict rotation based on cooldowns. You can help identify what the optimal rotation is, then show empirically with your videos what the “real DPS” of that would be, if you want to avoid doing a mathematical calculation of optimal DPS. Demonstrate what a rotation against a dummy looks like, then maybe highlight how that might change in a fight with dodging/melee-hate phases, etc.

That is, of course, if you care that much about Necro. If you only care about trying to make others look bad, you’ll just keep doing what you’re doing, hating on every thread you can find, even when someone just tries to pipe up with something people can get their hands on and work with to draw their own conclusions.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Spoj is trying to evaluate our abilities to determine what the most effective rotation might be. Nemesis, you’re just spitting in people’s faces. And please stop using “… for free…” in your posts. It makes you sound like you want to be some sort of sleezy salesman who nickel and dimes everyone for any service provided.

I also wouldn’t trust you to add up the numbers properly, anyway. At this point, based on your demeanor, I honestly believe you would fudge the numbers just to make someone look bad. Objectivity is at the heart of good data analysis, and you have a personal vendetta against some people.

I personally have an inkling Necro will carve out a niche in raids once the content releases and people start to get creative. However, what Spoj is doing is also interesting and important. Anything that helps you better understand a class is cool and should be shared.

You don’t have to agree with anything. But if you disagree, you can do it constructively. Steer the discussion in the proper direction, ensuring people know that rotations should often be more considered priority lists of abilities, as moving in a fight can disrupt a strict rotation based on cooldowns. You can help identify what the optimal rotation is, then show empirically with your videos what the “real DPS” of that would be, if you want to avoid doing a mathematical calculation of optimal DPS. Demonstrate what a rotation against a dummy looks like, then maybe highlight how that might change in a fight with dodging/melee-hate phases, etc.

That is, of course, if you care that much about Necro. If you only care about trying to make others look bad, you’ll just keep doing what you’re doing, hating on every thread you can find, even when someone just tries to pipe up with something people can get their hands on and work with to draw their own conclusions.

What i say now is literally nothing compared to what i received back when i was putting out guides. Everything i was saying got ridiculed by these people, Spoj was among them… i even had entire threads dedicated to me.

Secondly… i was right then, and i am right now…

ArenaNet said necromancers are fine, i said necromancers are fine… Spoj, Nike, Sesshi and a few others said necromancers are weak compared to staff ele and condition engineers.

The community would have never believed that in the first place if it wasn’t for the Icebow which was doing all the work for them.

My friend… you really don’t get it. No one ever said “advertised numbers do not match reality” until i made those 2 videos… now they all try to sugar-coat it and go back on their claims.

Without these videos they would have continued pulling out numbers of 20K DPS condition engineer, 25K revenant and so on… which people do believe, despite the fact that Spoj admitted those numbers do not match reality… also he said he never advertised such numbers, even though he did as you saw in the videos.

Until this point no one ever had reason to question the fact that sinister engineer or staff elementalist does 20K DPS… especially since no one knew the real HP value of bosses…

However… as i see it, i think i am too late… It’s going to take people more then year to finally realize they don’t do even half of what was advertised to them, in the best case scenarios… worst case they just die nonstop, have like 1K DPS overall, and blame everyone else.

At least now i can publish a few proper builds in peace without being ridiculed, i don’t think they would dare to trash my work like they did in the past… ever again.

spoj.9672:

Just a little hint. Calculating damage* uptime comes after actually determining the optimal skills and builds to use. Im not at that stage.

I just explicitly said what im doing here is to determine whether skills are worth using in a rotation. So i honestly dont know why you are being a kitten about it.

The only thing that math in a void can determine is the value of a skill in a damage rotation, is it worth it to press it… or is it worth it to just auto-attack instead.

This is what i said im doing….

Btw ive never calculated dps for engineer or most classes. And whenever i do necro i list all assumptions. Like i said im not trying to deceive anyone.

No… DPS uptime comes from the mechanics of the fight.

Example:
If you are a squishy melee zerker, and the boss does a deadly whirlwind chain attack for 5 seconds, you break DPS for 5+ seconds or you die.

That’s a 5 sec DPS loss every X amount of seconds for melee only.
Or… you alter build to compensate with invulnerability effects which may or may not be suficient
Or… you have a tank-healer with you to provide DPS uptime
Or… you can play condition builds to compensate for those mechanics

Everything i have said here is situational based on the encounter.

Now… if you wish to put into math the… let’s say Ascalonian fractal fight ?… Also include the DPS uptime loss by cornerstacking squishy builds, instead of noncornerstacking proper builds… by all means…

I personally don’t know anyone who possesses the math knowledge capable of calculating all of those 50.000 variables to account for all encounters in the game (per build)… so that you end up with exact % estimates of fights.

Example:

You do this X (max) DPS, IF a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h = true => X DPS is achievable 0.00234% of the time.
You do this Y (min) DPS, IF a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h = not true => Y DPS is achievable 100% of the time.
+ all the in between values.

Yes… this math i would believe… anything else confuses more then helps…

You honestly want another 2 years in which a few classes will get constantly discriminated ?

Not to mention if you take math-build builds into raids… you mind as well go afk cause it will be the same thing.

Holy kitten really
They always said in OPTIMAL situations you can reach that, of course in actual encounters mileage will vary, how is that a difficult concept to grasp

Thats what i said. You determine it after. Are you purposely not reading now?

And its damage uptime. Not dps uptime. Dps uptime doesnt exist. It doesnt make sense. Lower damage uptime results in lower dps.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Holy kitten really
They always said in OPTIMAL situations you can reach that, of course in actual encounters mileage will vary, how is that a difficult concept to grasp

No… it’s not even in OPTIMAL situation… it’s actually NEVER.

Now… please write what you just wrote to me, to every single one of the people who argue with me and continue to claim sinister engineer and staff elementalist does 20K DPS.

Also google Obal revenant build, and write that in the comment section of his newly 25K DPS revenant video… in which you can actually hear him say the words “you do 15K DPS just by auto-attacking”.

Thank you.

PS:
Engineer “optimal” DPS = 20K / Necromancer “optimal” DPS = 14K
Engineer REAL DPS = 9-11K / Necromancer REAL DPS = 12-14K

Now… let’s exclude all necromancers from “teh meta”, for two years, based on math.
Or… let’s all go squishy melee zerkers vs “heavy armor deadly AoE whirlwind attacking” boss… based on math.

I wonder how they will ever show you actually need a tank/support in some situations with the math… i’m curious…