Guild Wars 2

It is awful. Even with Death Nova this is awful. I don’t see this being good unless the shout itself has like a base damage of 1500~ and a really short cooldown. Even then its awful.

Or are Jagged Horror being buffed so it will actually be worth taking?

Aktium.9506:

It is awful. Even with Death Nova this is awful. I don’t see this being good unless the shout itself has like a base damage of 1500~ and a really short cooldown. Even then its awful.

Or are Jagged Horror being buffed so it will actually be worth taking?

Rise! will be good if it has a quicker CD of 24-32 secs. The 5 jagged horrors are good for the LF boost on death alone. It doesn’t seem the damage from it will be significant since the article states Rise! does little AoE damage in of itself.

Death Nova with Rise! should be pretty good for the poison stacks and extra AoE damage. That’s 2 pulses of 5 second poison x5 for a total of 10 applications.

Any MM with healing power/area heals can keep Jagged horrors up fairly long in PvE and a bit longer in PvP/WvW roaming situations. Expect to see Reaper MMs running around PvE with 8 jagged horrors all the time(is that still the cap?). Actually with a condi build this could turn into a quite a lot of bleed stacks with 8 JHs applying bleed per attack.

More minions with Necromantic Corruption means more minions to be targeted by AoE condi and to transfer condis from you to them, then all of them to an enemy every 10s.

The problem is finding room on an MM skill bar for the shout. I would probably replace Shadow Fiend with Rise! and possibly replace Bone Fiend with Epidemic on a Condi MM PvE build if Rise! has a quick CD.

I imagine this should would actually work quite well for anyone with death magic traits. I could see DM/ SR/ (reaper) traits. Not necessarily just MMancers.

Death nova with jagged horrors actually equals a pretty nice damage spread. As well as some easy poison application on what I would assume is going to be a fairly short cooldown( shouts cds reduced when they hit more enemies included.) (could take jagged horrors instead of flesh wurm since your going to WANT to be in melee anyway…not running away from it)

If your running necromantic corruption you could actually take this shout instead of bone minions. Adding a very high condi transfer rate to your skill set. Especially with all the chill you will have in the typical MM build to hold them down (MMs can produce ALOT of chill when set right). Making them an effective condi clear tool.

Is it something power necros are going to scream for? No. But I imagine theyl take the other shouts ANYWAY. But for the less focused builds this shout gives some pretty decent possibilities.

I see options with it, if you go blood magic, you could use for vampiric.
If you’re going with death magic you could take it for putrid defense or flesh of the master in combination with death nova or necromatic corruption. Hell, it’s also a possible +66 %life force generator (now if only we could gain life force in death shroud). Reapers precision might be an option to take depending on the numbers.

It works well if you run a curses/death magic/reaper setup. each jagged horror applies a bleed on each attack (scales with your condition stats), and can give a death nova on death. This can create a lot of pressure not to use AOEs else the enemy will eat a lot of poison and they will bleed if they don’t.

This also combined with the new damage from poisoned enemies reduced and damage from chilled enemies reduced, leads to a lot of synergy.

utility combination would be something like: blood fiend, bone minion, rise!, corrosive poison cloud, lich form.

It also has some synergy with the necromantic corruption build, as it both gives toughness from flesh of the master and gives you more minions to transfer conditions through.

If the Reaper makes for a good elite spec in a Power-based sPvP spec, I’d actually take Rise!, and if only to somewhat compensate for starting with 0 LF. Well if the damage is good enough, that is. Although I’d imagine there could be a minion-focused trait on the Reaper Spec.

Just imagine this : Instead of Jagged Horrors you summon 2-3 bone minions that rush to the nearest enemy and explode X) Triple Blast finisher? Hell yeah I’d take that shout.
Only it will never be true, but then again… I DID predicted Rise! down to the number of minions… (Well, not the name ofc.).

Easy minion generation on Mesmers and Engis and the new Stronghold NPCs.

Rise! is easily the best part of this entire specialization. Each minion applies bleeds, when they die they each can proc Death Nova for 1.2k direct damage and poison. They can very possibly deal more damage than Well of Suffering.

Bhawb.7408:

Rise! is easily the best part of this entire specialization. Each minion applies bleeds, when they die they each can proc Death Nova for 1.2k direct damage and poison. They can very possibly deal more damage than Well of Suffering.

I find that very hard to believe. Well of Suffering will tick for 2000-2500 × 6 with PvP stats. 5 Death Novas doesn’t even come close even when you factor in the 15 or so bleeds 5 jagged horror will apply.

6k Direct damage base, plus whatever damage the shout itself deals, and 15 stacks of poison, plus whatever bleed they do AAing. Yes, it very easily can, and requires exactly 1 stat to do that damage, you can be a full tank and still do it.

Bhawb.7408:

6k Direct damage base, plus whatever damage the shout itself deals, and 15 stacks of poison, plus whatever bleed they do AAing. Yes, it very easily can, and requires exactly 1 stat to do that damage, you can be a full tank and still do it.

Oh right, Poison will also stack intensity like Burning in HoT. I forgot about that. With intensity stacking Poison you might reach damage close to a Well of Suffering. Though it would require someone to pump out some rather hard hitting aoe to trigger them all at once. Would be better if we could kill our Jagged Horrors on demand. I’m against the sort of passive play a trait like Death Nova promotes if it actually becomes a good trait.

My only concern is that you need to be around 5 enemies to get the desirable effect. Am I missing something? Fighting even 2 or more people is not something we really excel at, even on Minion builds that are usually trying to bunker points.

And you make us better at fighting 5 people by giving us stuff that scales into teamfights.

Sabre.8627:

My only concern is that you need to be around 5 enemies to get the desirable effect. Am I missing something? Fighting even 2 or more people is not something we really excel at, even on Minion builds that are usually trying to bunker points.

The side effect of this is that we become artificially stronger against pet, spirit weapon, minion, clone or turret/drone using enemies in 1v1 situations.

Sort of like how Signet of the Locust is a full heal vs. a Mesmer. :p

Your right though. Reapers skills aren’t optimal in 1v1 situations when the enemy has no adds. This is only a problem for vanilla pvp though. In PvE, WvW and the new PvP mode the AoE scaling should be useful.

Bhawb.7408:

And you make us better at fighting 5 people by giving us stuff that scales into teamfights.

But a shout that summons a single underwhelming minion for each enemy, I can’t see how this one skill accomplishes it. Especially when that one skill requires you to fight multiple people to be effective. I’m assuming and hoping that this is the only shout suited towards minion builds.

Sabre.8627:

Bhawb.7408:

And you make us better at fighting 5 people by giving us stuff that scales into teamfights.

But a shout that summons a single underwhelming minion for each enemy, I can’t see how this one skill accomplishes it. Especially when that one skill requires you to fight multiple people to be effective. I’m assuming and hoping that this is the only shout suited towards minion builds.

If nothing else it will act as free life force generation. 10%-50% and 12%-60% with Soul Comprehension once the minion(s) die.

Sabre.8627:

But a shout that summons a single underwhelming minion for each enemy, I can’t see how this one skill accomplishes it. Especially when that one skill requires you to fight multiple people to be effective. I’m assuming and hoping that this is the only shout suited towards minion builds.

Because those minions don’t go to each enemy, that is 5 minions on one target that explode for 6k damage and poison fields. It is one shout, of 6.

Also, as a counterpoint, when fighting Mesmers or Rangers, you will basically always get at least 2 minions out of the deal. Mesmers, 4 is frequent.

I get the sense mesmers already kinda hate us. I don’t know about you guys, but I have this tendency to brute-force clones.

Forget tracking the real one, just hit ALL of them!

Soon, we’ll just make them miserable! And we’ll even yell at them while we do it! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This would be cool if it was a stunbreak, too.

And if Death Nova was affected by our crit chance and ferocity. But I guess the second one is kinda wishful thinking.

Bumping this to show how much can change. With the current necro condi meta, the old Beta “Rise” would be amazing. 5 extra Jagged Horrors every 24 seconds.

it would be good enough for me if the damage reduction applied regardless of whether the jagged horrors are attacking or not, as long as they are summoned and alive, the damage reduction should apply…

Raid mentality in its prime. Why do you complain about utility skill that is perfectly fine?
It is not supposed to be damage skill, but defensive one. The damage reduction it provides is in fact, the best in-game. When facing 5 enemies you have the buff from horrors PERMAMENTLY. If less enemies are around you have a few seconds gap but again, 50% damage reduction. If i recall this is like having around 3,5k armor which is warrior with full primary toughness gear.

The cooldown is short compared to duration (base 40s cd and 25s duration) and all you do is complain because of the broken alacrity/adrenaline mushroom combo which allows/allowed to spam bleeding from lich form minions. Now when anet removed those shrooms you people start complaining about perfectly fine skills because you want to turn them into yet another broken condition stacking bombgasm.
“remember when in beta we could have 40+ minions at once ? that was cool”
I’d rather finally see some changes to power damage traits/weapons instead of buffing the condi meta again.

Anyone knows how much HP they have?

Rise isn’t here for damage, it’s to attempt shoring up the Necro’s lack of active defenses by giving us passive mitigation. It’s like having better Protection that can’t get boon corrupted. In this role, the shout is pretty sweet, and certainly shouldn’t be overlooked.

It’s worth noting this was back before Rise! did literally anything except summon Jagged Horrors, so commenting on a 10 month old thread about Rise! functionality doesn’t mean much, it was an entirely different skill.

Lahmia.2193:

Bumping this to show how much can change. With the current necro condi meta, the old Beta “Rise” would be amazing. 5 extra Jagged Horrors every 24 seconds.

Current Rise is still far superior. Jagged Horror bleeding is nice, but not enough to use over another skill, or even over its current really nice defensive form.

Krysard.1364:

Anyone knows how much HP they have?

Be pretty easy to check, compared to what it used to be. Clear your combat log, get a friend, have him summon a minion, beat on it with condi damage until it dies, but at a fairly low rate so that the individual hits are never super large. My guess is it has roughly 10k HP, which is standard for the utility minions.

youre trippin. rise is really stronk.

wow nice necro thread. nobody cares how much can change, dont necro a thread that no longer has relevance. its actually against the rules (youre in deep trouble).

Aw man, it’s been 10 months already. God dang time sure flies.

I should note two things apart from the fact that the current Rise isn’t anything like the skill I made this thread for back then. Back when this comment was made there was no Viper gear and I was thinking from a a PvP perspective at the time. And despite their strength in raids, jagged horrors are still not very good in any PvP situation.

Bhawb.7408:

Krysard.1364:

Anyone knows how much HP they have?

Be pretty easy to check, compared to what it used to be. Clear your combat log, get a friend, have him summon a minion, beat on it with condi damage until it dies, but at a fairly low rate so that the individual hits are never super large. My guess is it has roughly 10k HP, which is standard for the utility minions.

I imagine it’s around 10,875 health that they have. One of the update notes in beta was that the health and armor of Shambling Horrors were increased by 25% while their Power was decreased. I believe the original stats were equal to Jagged Horrors.

I could be wrong, but it’s a reasonable assumption. If my assumption is correct, this does mean Shambling Horrors have slightly higher Toughness than Bone Fiend and even Flesh Golem (2656 compared to 2600). Toughness is harder to test, however. We would need a Dev to confirm that number.

I love the irony of thread necromancy on a thread about Rise!.

Condimancer needs a tone down, powermancer need to Rise