Guild Wars 2

Very happy about the trait change but forcing the choice between ftg over deathly perception doesnt make much sense when we have no mobility, no vigor and our high damage skills take years to complete. When you look at how every trait line is, offense and defense work together:

-Parasitic contagion and death into life in the spite line right after siphoned power
-All the weakness stuff in curses line, reapers precision and spectral attunement.
-Deadly strength in the death magic line
-All the siphon stuff in blood magic and blood into power

Soul reaping is the only line that really forces you to choose offense or defence, its essentially a punishment for having DS:
- unyielding blast vs speed of shadows or vital persistence
-The problem starts with master traits now all being defence, followed by grandmaster minor for a measly 5% dmg increase? then you have to choose between ftg and deathly perception?

The SR line baffles me.

SUGGESTION: Why not instead of unyielding blast, have a trait that increase attack speed by 50% while in ds then have ftg as a minor trait. This would definitely compensate for the lack of mobility besides look how much survivability you would be giving up going 6 into SR and using these changes. Its either you lose near to death or vital persistance, Losing either will substantially affect you in team fights.

On top of this going 6 again into spite for max damage further affects your tankiness in team fights when you likely have low armour, no mobility and everyone else is enduring pain, being invulnrable, stealthing, evading and porting.

I am very grateful that after so long they finally listened but this is an obvious change still half complete and still doesnt solve the major problem, Necromancer’s over dependence on teammates

No, choosing between very strong defensive and offensive options absolutely makes sense. Soul Reaping is the only line not based heavily on offense, defense, or support, it is based on Death Shroud and Life Force and so it makes perfect sense that its GMs would be all kinds of different things but tied to DS.

Also, every GM slot has options of different types. They all have some combination of offensive, defensive, and more often utility that is somewhere in the middle.

Bhawb, do you think fitg now makes a 0/6/2/0/6 terror condi a better build than a 6/6/0/0/2 dhuumfire condi glass build for roaming? Will the damage loss and condi duration loss from the loss of the spite trait line really cut our damage down in order to gain fitg and increase in fear duration? I typically run a glass condi build with perplex runes and dhuumfire for bursting but am a ping pong ball if I don’t time my dodges perfectly. Just looking for insight. Anyone have any suggestions?

I do think 0/6/2/0/6 is probably better just from the standpoint of having stronger defensive options. It seems to me like 6/6/0/0/2 is pretty based on cheesing someone quickly with heavy condi pressure and hoping they don’t have the ability to deal with the condis and can’t counter pressure you. 0/6/2/0/6 allows for more defensive options, so you can actually fight better imo. But really if you’re in smaller combat situations only 1-2 stun breaks should be fine.

I also think FitG can solve some of our “three slot” issues, since it makes taking only a single stun break a bit less painful. Could be possible to fit SoL into more builds now.

Bhawb.7408:

No, choosing between very strong defensive and offensive options absolutely makes sense. Soul Reaping is the only line not based heavily on offense, defense, or support, it is based on Death Shroud and Life Force and so it makes perfect sense that its GMs would be all kinds of different things but tied to DS.

Also, every GM slot has options of different types. They all have some combination of offensive, defensive, and more often utility that is somewhere in the middle.

A choice between being CC’d to death and kited to death are not options between offence defense wouldn’t you agree? You do understand the effects of no mobility right?

If your big channels are being interrupted, evaded, blocked or port escaped what exactly is the entire point of DS when fending off multiple people except stand and wait for teammates? ok switch to dagger and spam 1? take wells that you or your opponents wont be standing in anyway?

Yes occasionally you will come across people of average skill level and be able to justify the class’ limitations but what happens when you come across people of your skill level. For instance i cannot begin to imagine what i would do if my necro came across a thief similar to mine LBs would be too slow to hit, immobilizes would be cleansed or evaded and the big channels would just get evaded or interrupted.

Thieves for example have might on dodge, is that offense vs defense? Mesmers have the dazes, is that offense vs defense? Necros have deadly strength in the DM trail line, is that offense vs defense? Even endure pain isn’t a choice between offence vs defense, everything ive just mentioned allows you to do both at the same time.

If you think about it carefully, there is no justification for the only defensive mechanism we have forcing a choice between offense and defense when every other class has both happening at the same time.

Personally i think Soul Reaping is one of the best trait lines we have. No matter the build, i always tend to have some points in it.

That’s a necro issue you use DS for offense but it’s roots are defensive a main defense, how it works and how dominant it can become prevent us from having defense like other profs also the fact that we can stack it. Choosing FotG is generally made by condition builds, remember there are many types of offense and defense.

@Ragion, that has nothing to do with what I said.

Spite offers a defensive option, Parasitic Contagion, or two offensive options, Dhuumfire/Close to Death. At the GM level, your options then are offense via conditions, offensive via direct damage, defense via conditions.

Curses offers an offensive option, Lingering Curses, a defense/utility option, Withering Precision, and an offensive/utility option, Path of Corruption. At the GM level, your options are one of those things.

And this is true of every profession and nearly every trait line, with the exceptions being badly designed trait lines. By taking one option at the GM level, you by design cannot have what the other options give you. By taking Deathly Perception, you have to give up the strength related to Foot in the Grave, or vice versa. This is true everywhere, that is why GM traits are allowed to be so powerful, because they innately bar you from other GMs.

You can’t argue that Necromancer can’t deal damage without Foot in the Grave when it has not been a core trait in over a year, and both condi and power are currently meta in the highest tiers of play without it. The very nature of Death Shroud is offense and defense at once.

Muchacho.2390:

Personally i think Soul Reaping is one of the best trait lines we have. No matter the build, i always tend to have some points in it.

Thats because we can’t go anywhere when things start getting difficult. Its almost mandatory to have at least 4 points into it.

Bhawb.7408:

@Ragion, that has nothing to do with what I said.

Spite offers a defensive option, Parasitic Contagion, or two offensive options, Dhuumfire/Close to Death. At the GM level, your options then are offense via conditions, offensive via direct damage, defense via conditions.

Curses offers an offensive option, Lingering Curses, a defense/utility option, Withering Precision, and an offensive/utility option, Path of Corruption. At the GM level, your options are one of those things.

And this is true of every profession and nearly every trait line, with the exceptions being badly designed trait lines. By taking one option at the GM level, you by design cannot have what the other options give you. By taking Deathly Perception, you have to give up the strength related to Foot in the Grave, or vice versa. This is true everywhere, that is why GM traits are allowed to be so powerful, because they innately bar you from other GMs.

You can’t argue that Necromancer can’t deal damage without Foot in the Grave when it has not been a core trait in over a year, and both condi and power are currently meta in the highest tiers of play without it. The very nature of Death Shroud is offense and defense at once.

The question isn’t whether or not necromancer can deal damage. The question is what can you do when team fights start to go sideways? Can you leave when you suddenly get descended upon by 3-5 people? can you step out and join your teammates? or go to another point?

We both know its not like necromancer can 2 shot everything under any circumstance no matter how much damage you pack in which would of course make up for the mobility. Each class has similar damage potential, what makes the difference is defensive capabilites and Deathshroud offers no advantage over other classes that can port, stealth and evade. In fact you can argue it offers a disadvantage over those in team fights.

Your comparisons while valid still have one resounding problem, they have many alternatives. Weakness from Withering precision can be easily applied other ways native to necro. Regen from parasitic contagion has several and viable alternatives. What is the alternative for stability, well of power? how many stab stacks would you actually be able to get when standing in one place for 5 seconds could cause you to take damage that wont justify getting the most out of the well

Sure, we could use more stability. But that is a problem completely unrelated to the power of Foot in the Grave, or the fact that both of these traits are perfectly balanced where they are right now. If we need more stability, we need more stability.

I just read the FitG change, and I’m very intrigued. I need to hit the drawing board.

Otherwise, I don’t see the issue with the current choice I have to make in SR.