Guild Wars 2

Hi! I have some questions about Scepter usage in higher levels.
I’m leveling my Necro (lvl 37 right now) with Scepter/Dagger + Staff condition gear and mobs die surprisingly fast I have tried all weapons and i must say that Scepter is the best leveling weapon: great aoe and great burst + great help from Staff #2 and #3. Dagger is ok too, but dmg is not that high for solo killing multiple mobs and it requieres melee range and i don’t find much synergy with Staff.

And how is Scepter at lvl 80 PvP, WvW and dungeons? I see almost every necros are runing Power Daggers for Dungeons. But what about PvP and WvW: is Scepter of any good there? I really like Scepter + Staff.
Sorry for english …

Scepter is pretty much the only option for full condi builds, but it’s not really a good weapon generally. Thankfully, a developer (Robert Gee) has confirmed that he’s working on improving it soon.

Scepter certainly has its problems (bad lf generation, skill 3 is bad for the typical scepter builds) but it is the go to weapon if you want to run a condi/terror necro. So yeah it is decent in pvp and wvw (roaming) scenarios.

It is also getting a rework, which hopefully will fix its problems.

If you like how the Scepter does for you now you will still like it at lvl80. You should try Scepter+Warhorn with Major Sigil of Air+Earth, Staff with Major Sigil of Geomancy+Leeching. In close combat you will do a tone of damage.

Scepter is the only dedicated condition damage weapon – the only one.

From my PoV, wearing condition damage stats instead of precision / critical bonus is a waste without scepter. Neither Terror or Dhuumfire have so much up-time that significant investment in condition damage pays off and it is not as if you get no condition damage withoutthat stat on your gear.

Bleeds from scepter are not at all a condition burst so patience and kiting is needed to spool up condition dps. The poor life force generation also encourages staying at a safe distance.

Scepter is seen on condi builds in wvw, not so much in spvp. Condi is much stronger outside spvp due to obtainable runes outside pvp such as perplexity and gear like dire. Food also plays a big role. Condi, is not however good for pve, you want to stick to more dps berserker builds.

The changes to conditions absolutely gutted scepter. As of now, necromancer has, IMHO, no weapons for a condition user to use.

It’s an awful weapon, perhaps not Axe & focus bad, but bottom tier bad.

Why is it bad?

Base damage is low, condition stacks are low, lifeforce gain is low.

The weapon neither scales well with power or condition damage.

The only good things you can say about the weapon is that the #2 field is decent (but cripple got nerfed), scepter has decent range, and the long lasting conditions, Traited, prevent players from out of combat heals.

Poison not duration stacking turns out to be a killer nerf, even worse than bleed condition damage scaling being so horrible.

A condition rebalance could save things, but outside of that there isn’t too much hope for the weapon.

I would suggest that the lingering curse duration increase become baseline. (the condition damage portion can be its own trait). Then maybe tweak the number of bleed and poison stacks plus put a non damaging condition like slow on #3 as part of the reworked grandmaster trait.

But that’s not enough to save the weapon either. I really don’t see a future for the weapon.

nekretaal.6485:

The changes to conditions absolutely gutted scepter. As of now, necromancer has, IMHO, no weapons for a condition user to use.

It’s an awful weapon, perhaps not Axe & focus bad, but bottom tier bad.

Why is it bad?

Base damage is low, condition stacks are low, lifeforce gain is low.

The weapon neither scales well with power or condition damage.

The only good things you can say about the weapon is that the #2 field is decent (but cripple got nerfed), scepter has decent range, and the long lasting conditions, Traited, prevent players from out of combat heals.

Poison not duration stacking turns out to be a killer nerf, even worse than bleed condition damage scaling being so horrible.

A condition rebalance could save things, but outside of that there isn’t too much hope for the weapon.

I would suggest that the lingering curse duration increase become baseline. (the condition damage portion can be its own trait). Then maybe tweak the number of bleed and poison stacks plus put a non damaging condition like slow on #3 as part of the reworked grandmaster trait.

But that’s not enough to save the weapon either. I really don’t see a future for the weapon.

Forget the lingering curse becoming baseline just change it so that it doubles every thing the scepter does stack wise rather than duration. Duration condition is pretty much dead at this point. Its all about shorter conditions that do more because they stack higher.
IMO the lingering curse trait should double the number of applied stacks rather than the duration (This will increase condition damage with the weapon while reducing ramp up when using the weapon. Not a good fix but better than what it currently does. The base duration on scepter are already pretty long if you ask me.)

Auto attacks with the scepter should be 2 or 3 bleeds > 2 or 3 bleeds > 2 or 3 poison stacks
The scepter 2 should be 4-6 bleed 2hits of the cripple and one other condition at least for being such a slow skill.
The scepter 3 should just be gutted and done away with for something that can actually generate lf more effectively.

Duration is nice but when you cant get more than 3-4 stacks of that bleed and like 2 stacks of poison the long duration is not getting much of anything. With the long duration and low number of stacks it can be ignored while your foe bodies you. But if one auto attack chain put around 6 bleed stacks and maybe 2 or 3 poison stacks on you its gonna start to hurt.

For it to be mostly a single target weapon with AA speed that slow its not rewarding enough for how much time it takes to cycle though one full AA chain. The only good thing this weapon has going for it if you ask me is its range. 900 range is pretty darn good, its just too slow for the pay out it rewards. Same thing with life blast.

The problem with that suggestion, and the high level problem with Lingering curse is the same thing:

If a weapon is not a decent weapon without a trait, then the trait is just a tax. Nobody likes taxes. Taxes aren’t fun or interesting. Take Scepter “this weapon is so awful I have to take curses and lose my grandmaster.”

Thats why I suggested:

New Lingering curse: Gain XXX number condition damage stat, scepter 3 now inflicts slow 4(s).

That at least is interesting, especially if the duration portion is now baseline and the # of condition stacks are tweaked so the weapon isn’t total garbage.

Brutally honest, Nekretaal and Zdragon, but so very true.

Scepter needs to be so much more. Staff bleed and condi transfer nerfs need revertimg. I want another condi weapon to swap to at short range. I want more fear access for Terror, too.

Sifu.9745:

Hi! I have some questions about Scepter usage in higher levels.
I’m leveling my Necro (lvl 37 right now) with Scepter/Dagger + Staff condition gear and mobs die surprisingly fast I have tried all weapons and i must say that Scepter is the best leveling weapon: great aoe and great burst + great help from Staff #2 and #3. Dagger is ok too, but dmg is not that high for solo killing multiple mobs and it requieres melee range and i don’t find much synergy with Staff.

And how is Scepter at lvl 80 PvP, WvW and dungeons? I see almost every necros are runing Power Daggers for Dungeons. But what about PvP and WvW: is Scepter of any good there? I really like Scepter + Staff.
Sorry for english …

for me it’s wasn’t the best. dagger/warhorn was way better and faster, and i still use it. . it takes too long to stack conditions to do high dmg. by the time you set your condition i’ve already killed a group of 4-5 mobs with dagger. yes staff doesn’t have synergy with dagger in pve, that’s why you don’t use it. for 2nd weapon i use Axe but keep Warhorn. for pvp i use Staff

for dungeons and pvp/wvw it varries. in dungeons other people do condis too, so it’s kinda easier to stack bleed. but it’s easier to stack vuln+might, so dagger is kinda better. in pvp/wvw you have to consider what build opponent has. some can cleanse your condis and others can kill you before your condis kill them. Ranger for example

but Robert said that they’ll do changes in scepter. wait and see

My suggestion to improve scepter AA:

1# chain: 2 stacks of bleeding.
2# chain: 2 stacks of poison.
3# chain: corrupt a boon.

guildabd.6529:

My suggestion to improve scepter AA:

1# chain: 2 stacks of bleeding.
2# chain: 2 stacks of poison.
3# chain: corrupt a boon.

Hahahahahahahah

Oh my word. No. Just no. Never. Not in this or any other lifetime. No with a side of nope, on a salad of not with a garnish of now way. This is the single most absurdly OP suggestion I’ve seen since the very first beta weekend.

While I agree with Nekretaal that weapon traits shouldn’t be required for a weapon to be decent, we also have to consider the fact that Lingering Curses is a grandmaster trait and should be appropriately build-defining like Dhuumfire, Signets of Suffering, or Death Nova. One problem with Lingering Curses as it stands is that it is far too narrow in application and basically is only useful for condimancers who have to sit around in battle autoattacking most of the time to keep their DPS stable.

The best way of making Lingering Curses a better trait is to expand the potential builds that would want to take it. I feel the most straightforward way is to add back some general condition duration for ALL applied conditions while wielding scepter as was originally previewed. In this way a Dhuumfire-based build may want to have a scepter equiped while in deathshroud to increase burning duration, Reapers may want it to further extend their chills, while traditional condimancers would still want to take it to extend their bleeds.

One idea I had with scepter was to make scepter #3 apply torment for every condition on a foe. On top of that I would make the duration increase from lingering curse for ~40% baseline and scrap the rest of the duration. The grandmaster then would be filled in with the following effect:
Scepter hits reapplies the conditions on a foe. Wielding a scepter grants 150 condition damage. Scepter skill cooldowns reduced by
Meaning if your foe has burn your -scepter hits apply burn on that foe. The durations would be rather short: fear, chill, immobilize and slow would be 0.25 seconds, cripple and weakness 0.5 or 0.75 seconds, burn,blind and confusion 1~1.5 second, poison 2 seconds, bleed and vulnerability 3 seconds.
The idea was that scepter would become some kind of condition preserver and as set up for scepter #3. It also had some synergy with dhuumfire (you blast a single life blast and scepter took over). I’m not sure about the idea myself since it overload some stacks quite easily but I want to know what you think about it.

Tim – I’m assuming this would add a condition based on the presence of a stack of conditions rather then the stack size? To clarify, you would add one extra bleed per hit if the target had any number of bleeds on it?

It would also work with signet of spite pretty nicely…

SupahSpankeh.8452:

guildabd.6529:

My suggestion to improve scepter AA:

1# chain: 2 stacks of bleeding.
2# chain: 2 stacks of poison.
3# chain: corrupt a boon.

Hahahahahahahah

Oh my word. No. Just no. Never. Not in this or any other lifetime. No with a side of nope, on a salad of not with a garnish of now way. This is the single most absurdly OP suggestion I’ve seen since the very first beta weekend.

Well that’s a bit of a rough response.

Vorgryn.9145:

Tim – I’m assuming this would add a condition based on the presence of a stack of conditions rather then the stack size? To clarify, you would add one extra bleed per hit if the target had any number of bleeds on it?

It would also work with signet of spite pretty nicely…

yes stack size has no influence on this. Also it has lots of synergy bitter chill, target the weak, Shivers of Dread and chilling darkness benefit from this trait.

meow one twenty.4376:

SupahSpankeh.8452:

guildabd.6529:

My suggestion to improve scepter AA:

1# chain: 2 stacks of bleeding.
2# chain: 2 stacks of poison.
3# chain: corrupt a boon.

Hahahahahahahah

Oh my word. No. Just no. Never. Not in this or any other lifetime. No with a side of nope, on a salad of not with a garnish of now way. This is the single most absurdly OP suggestion I’ve seen since the very first beta weekend.

Well that’s a bit of a rough response.

To be fair, boon corruption on autoattack would be pretty overpowered…

Would it really? Mesmer main-hand sword has a boon removal on its autoattack. It’s melee rather than ranged, but it also cleaves to three targets, and it does extra damage if the target has no boons to remove. Now, corruption is definitely stronger than simple removal, but it’s also one of the unique things that Necromancers have going for them. The extra condition produced would also fit well with the scepter’s overall condition damage theme …

While not necessarily relevant, Reaper shroud using Death’s Charge traited with Path of Corruption will be able to corrupt 2 boons on a 5-second recharge – actually about the same in terms of “boon corruptions per second”, given that the Scepter autoattack chain takes 2.4s to complete.

What if scepter 3 lock the duration of conditions on the target?
For the duration of that status, all the condition on that foe are freeze and all the condition that you applay continue to stay frozen untill the end of the status

So I’ve seen a lot of people asking for torment on scepter both in this thread and others. With the upcoming reaper spec wouldn’t it make more sense to add chills or blinds (which we could proc using Chilling Darkness into more chills) to scepter skills? Maybe replace the cripple on Scepter 2 with chill?

Vorgryn.9145:

So I’ve seen a lot of people asking for torment on scepter both in this thread and others. With the upcoming reaper spec wouldn’t it make more sense to add chills or blinds (which we could proc using Chilling Darkness into more chills) to scepter skills? Maybe replace the cripple on Scepter 2 with chill?

Not really since maybe with the next spec we might have a cripple elite specialisation. Also the main problem with scepter is low base damage, incredible ramp up times if traited (which you need for decent damage) and low life froce generation.

Vorgryn.9145:

meow one twenty.4376:

SupahSpankeh.8452:

guildabd.6529:

My suggestion to improve scepter AA:

1# chain: 2 stacks of bleeding.
2# chain: 2 stacks of poison.
3# chain: corrupt a boon.

Hahahahahahahah

Oh my word. No. Just no. Never. Not in this or any other lifetime. No with a side of nope, on a salad of not with a garnish of now way. This is the single most absurdly OP suggestion I’ve seen since the very first beta weekend.

Well that’s a bit of a rough response.

To be fair, boon corruption on autoattack would be pretty overpowered…

If it’s not on necro’s scepter last AA chain maybe. If you face players a lot you would know how unfair the boon hate to boon generation ratio is. A good dose of it is the best that could happen to PvP/WvW instead of bandaids like limiting class stacking.

Scepter needs a complete rework of the 3 skill, reliable LF generation, and then just more condition damage overall. It also shouldn’t have an overloaded AA, the AA right now is mostly okay, its the 2/3 skills that are a big issue.

For Reaper’s condi, the fact that every fear turns into chill is enough chill application when paired with other sources of chill.

Bhawb.7408:

Scepter needs a complete rework of the 3 skill, reliable LF generation, and then just more condition damage overall. It also shouldn’t have an overloaded AA, the AA right now is mostly okay, its the 2/3 skills that are a big issue.

For Reaper’s condi, the fact that every fear turns into chill is enough chill application when paired with other sources of chill.

I actually view the chill on fear with a big old “meh”. Sure, we get fears from stability corruption, but otherwise it’s just shroud 3 unless you’re running staff. So in PvE where there isn’t stability to corrupt, it’s a minor trait that improves up to two skills (with 20s & 32s cooldowns) by adding a 3s chill? Won’t help us much to keep 100% chill uptime on any future raid/fractal/dungeon bosses. With boss breakbars the likelihood of any boss having stability to corrupt is basically zero.

Also if the boss has a breakbar and we cast fear on it, the fear will reduce the breakbar but not actually get applied correct? So even assuming that chill is fixed and will work on enemies with breakbars, will the chill on fear even get applied with this trait?

Bhawb.7408:

Scepter needs a complete rework of the 3 skill, reliable LF generation, and then just more condition damage overall. It also shouldn’t have an overloaded AA, the AA right now is mostly okay, its the 2/3 skills that are a big issue.

For Reaper’s condi, the fact that every fear turns into chill is enough chill application when paired with other sources of chill.

I agree and would also like to see a short-range bleed weapon introduced after great sword.

Scepter is designed for medium-long range kiting but it lacks power for direct damage. There is no dps reward for melee. Swapping to axe or dagger main hand for closer range play just lets all the bleeds fall off the stack making the condition damage armor distinctly sub-par.

For condition damage stat armor to really be worth wearing and for scepter to become useful in more game situations, the profession needs a weapon that can maybe do axe-level direct damage and still maintain a short bleed stack.

Great sword’s chill damage on Deathly Chill has no synergy at all with scepter. It is like scepter was completely left out of the future of Necromancer. On one side, we have bleeds and poison on old skills, while on the other, everything revolves around chill. Trying to put together a condition damage Reaper was like trying to bandage two professions to each other. There were no similar problems with typical power builds.

Here what a necro can do in WvW on condi build

Aryuke.9743:

Here what a necro can do in WvW on condi build

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOAyxyhEkX4

Daredevils are not good foes especially with staff, revenant with shiro/jallis is free bait to condis, bunk guard is a easy match up, other necros is proc wars those mesmers are suspicious. Not a bad vid or player but the foes were not the best to show to say scepter is acceptable especially in WvW.

Scepter rework idea:
auto chain1.
-1 bleed stack
– 2 bleed stacks
– 2 bleed and poison stacks to target and 2 nearby targets (3 total)
skill 2.
– aoe cripple and torment (torment replaces the current bleeds)
skill 3.
– hit foe and gain life force for each condition on them (LF scales for EACH condition and at a much better coefficient than now.). If foe already had conditions, inflict torment. If foe had no conditions, your condition damage is temporarily increased (much like the new ranger shortbow effect on evade). This way you either get a chance to control their movement better with torment or you get a damage boost to power up a potential condi spike.

The AA chain needs to have longer condi durations to alleviate excessive ramp up time. I had considered adding condi duration instead of damage to the temp buff but we have the trait for that. I think the trait should increase scepter attack speed instead of condi dmg though which would further go towards easing ramp up.

I think the third attack in the scepter auto attack chain (Putrid Curse) should apply 2 bleeds + poison instead of just poison. Bleed, Bleed, Bleed x2 + Poison.

Grasping Dead should be a field. I think a 3 – 5 second duration that causes Cripple and Bleed every second someone remains in the field would be nice, with the base durations that it already has. As in; when you hit someone with it it still functions the same way that it currently does but the AOE lingers and stacks the longer you stand in it similar to a Ranger trap.

As much as I love Feast Of Corruption with power builds it’s still very out of place. Removing the effect it currently has and converting it to something like, gain Life Force and apply conditions for every condition on your target. Say those conditions are Bleed and Torment. Bleeds for all non-damaging conditions and Torment for all damaging conditions.
Eg. My target has; Blindness, Vulnerability, Crippled and Chilled on them. I hit them with Feast Of Corruption, gain 12% Life Force (3% per condition as it currently is) and apply 4stacks of Bleed.
Eg #2. My target has; Bleed, Poison, Burning and Torment. I hit them with Feast Of Corruption, gain 12% Life Force and apply 4stacks of Torment.

Those are just some of my suggestions for how to make scepter better in regards to people discussing buffs for it.

As for the OP, it is a solid condition weapon but it is not very good for power builds and is still lacking some major pressure with condition builds.

Regardless of how we suggest buffs/changes I think many of us agree scepter needs torment. Necro was initially promised ample access to torment when the condition was first released but we only have 1 skill on a long cooldown….mesmer gets it on an auto (multiple times if clones attack too), and Revenant has the most torment available in the entire game-which is fine, that’s their niche- but necro (slowest of all classes) should also have fair access to it and I think scepter would be a great carrier for the condi.

Aryuke.9743:

Here what a necro can do in WvW on condi build

Entertaining video. Thanks. I didn’t watch all of it but you spent a lot of time in Death Shroud or with Staff from what I saw.

Roaming wvw condi necro myself (dire/rabid with scepter). I started to experiment after the summer patch because I felt it was harder to keep up.

Still condi but spiced up with some sinister, focusing on boon/condi manipulation with axe. Giving up scepter on a condi build is kind of sad.

I still use my scepter from time to time, but I’m having more fun with axe.

Cheers
—
Edit: spelling

Tbh I would straight out buff scepter and in general ramp it up a little bit.

1. Blood Curse Bleed x1 (5s)
   => Rending Curse Bleed x2 (5s)
   => Putrid Curse Poison x1 (5s) Bleed x1 (5s)

1. Grasping Dead now pulse aoe, cooldown up to 12-13
   Bleed x3 (7) per pulse
   Cripple (3s) per pulse
   Duration 2s
   Total number of hits 3, 1+2 pulses
   nr of targets 5

1. Feast of Corruption CD up to 15
   10% Life force on use
   5% Life force for every bleeding enemy hit
   Apply Weakness to affected enemies (3s)
   nr of targets: 5

Would be a start I guess.

Necs need to have faster ramp up.

Don’t forget, the scepter rework should also be balanced for raid encounters. A typical raid boss fight is 3-4 minutes long. We won’t be seeing anymore of these stupid dungeon bosses that die in 15 seconds. Decreasing our ramp up time will help us, but we need a overall higher dps to compete with things like ele’s and thieves, and warriors. These classes are putting out 14-16k dps, meanwhile even our capped dps, ignoring ramp up time is only 9-11k. We need longer duration, less ramp up and higher stacks.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Don’t forget, the scepter rework should also be balanced for raid encounters. A typical raid boss fight is 3-4 minutes long. We won’t be seeing anymore of these stupid dungeon bosses that die in 15 seconds. Decreasing our ramp up time will help us, but we need a overall higher dps to compete with things like ele’s and thieves, and warriors. These classes are putting out 14-16k dps, meanwhile even our capped dps, ignoring ramp up time is only 9-11k. We need longer duration, less ramp up and higher stacks.

Do we really need longer durations? Our auto attack can reach up to 20 seconds, that is more then most condi skills in the game, scepter 2 lasts even longer and our longest bleed is 1 minute only beaten by tooth stab (a stolen thief skill).

Grasping Dead, or FoC, should apply chill, too. Maybe changing Lingering Curses to add chill to one of them would help.

Alternatively, a Reaper trait could add chill on cripple, poison, or weakness

Tim.6450:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Don’t forget, the scepter rework should also be balanced for raid encounters. A typical raid boss fight is 3-4 minutes long. We won’t be seeing anymore of these stupid dungeon bosses that die in 15 seconds. Decreasing our ramp up time will help us, but we need a overall higher dps to compete with things like ele’s and thieves, and warriors. These classes are putting out 14-16k dps, meanwhile even our capped dps, ignoring ramp up time is only 9-11k. We need longer duration, less ramp up and higher stacks.

Do we really need longer durations? Our auto attack can reach up to 20 seconds, that is more then most condi skills in the game, scepter 2 lasts even longer and our longest bleed is 1 minute only beaten by tooth stab (a stolen thief skill).

Well it doesn’t really matter how we get there, but we should b e able to get to 12-14k sustained dps on raid fights. There are only 3 variables on getting there. Condition damage, condition duration and condition stacks. I think the necro theme is longer duration but less stacks. It is just currently our longer duration doesn’t make up for the pitiful stacks we can apply of low damage bleeds. And as far as I know, no condition build matches the sustained dps of a power build yet.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Tim.6450:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Don’t forget, the scepter rework should also be balanced for raid encounters. A typical raid boss fight is 3-4 minutes long. We won’t be seeing anymore of these stupid dungeon bosses that die in 15 seconds. Decreasing our ramp up time will help us, but we need a overall higher dps to compete with things like ele’s and thieves, and warriors. These classes are putting out 14-16k dps, meanwhile even our capped dps, ignoring ramp up time is only 9-11k. We need longer duration, less ramp up and higher stacks.

Do we really need longer durations? Our auto attack can reach up to 20 seconds, that is more then most condi skills in the game, scepter 2 lasts even longer and our longest bleed is 1 minute only beaten by tooth stab (a stolen thief skill).

Well it doesn’t really matter how we get there, but we should b e able to get to 12-14k sustained dps on raid fights. There are only 3 variables on getting there. Condition damage, condition duration and condition stacks. I think the necro theme is longer duration but less stacks. It is just currently our longer duration doesn’t make up for the pitiful stacks we can apply of low damage bleeds. And as far as I know, no condition build matches the sustained dps of a power build yet.

Well, yes we need higher sustained dps but a longer ramp up time is desastrous when the boss starts cleansing. Also there is a limit on how much duration you can give a skill without making the last moments of a fight unimpactfull, if we doubled the necro’s duration accros the board it would mean that at the last forty seconds the necros might as well run to the exit since even it’s auto attacks aren’t doing full damage anymore ( a bit of a hyperbole but you get the meaning). No duration wise the necro reached it’s limits with maybe the exeception of the curses minor adept trait.
What we need at this moment is more either more stacks or more damage per stack. Necro has reached already around 400 bonus condition damage so venturing further in that returns with diminishing effect.
So more stacks looks like a sensible solution. We have the option to increase the stacks/skill, add more damaging condition attacks or allow more usage of our high condition application skills. I think a good solution would be found by increasing these three aspects: give scepter #3 damaging conditions, introduce a cooldown reduction trait for scepter, up the stacks for dagger #5 (it has less tick then scepter #2 but double the cooldown ), improve corruptions, … .

Siva Mira.3546:

If you like how the Scepter does for you now you will still like it at lvl80. You should try Scepter+Warhorn with Major Sigil of Air+Earth, Staff with Major Sigil of Geomancy+Leeching. In close combat you will do a tone of damage.

I do say Scepter / Dagger ~ Torment / Bursting and Warhorn with Geomancy for PVE at least this is the most effective way to keep spamming condis cuz heart has 2 sec icd with a single target while torment is in addition of bleed + aoe and stronger while target is moving.

But thats only superior versions when he’s gonna reach lvl 80 ofc ^^

For lvling its better to go for same weapons set but with major heart / geomancy // geomancy.