Guild Wars 2

I posted the following in one of the many condition damage whining threads in the balance forum. It was suggested that for every weapon in the game, power builds had faster kill times. I decided to test this. I realize it is not a perfect test, given the multiplying effects runes, sigils, and traits can have on results, but it is, at least, a fair test.

Okay, Necro Scepter with no traits or armor. No sigils, only auto-attacking. Time to kill Heavy Training Golem.

Berserker amulet: 33.16 seconds
Rabid amulet: 31.93 seconds
None: 53.17 seconds

Interestingly, even with the Berserker amulet, about half of the damage dealt was still from the 0 condition damage/duration bleeds. I knew Necro Scepter scaled poorly with power, but I didn’t expect it to be that poorly.

Now, using other skills (still only using skills 1-3, though, rotation being Grasping Dead, 3 autos, then Feast of Corruption for maximum damage on Feast)
Berserker: 31.52 seconds
Rabid: 30.70 seconds
None: ~48 seconds (stopwatch locked up)

So, there is at least one weapon that kills heavy armor faster with conditions than power in a scientific test.

Now, on medium, I repeated the tests:

Autos only
Berserker: 25.33 seconds
Rabid: 26.10 seconds

All scepter skills:
Berserker: 22.89 seconds
Rabid: 24.27 seconds

So, somewhere between the Heavy armor golem and the Medium armor golem, Zerker becomes optimal damage output even for necro scepter and its horrendous power scaling.

Just figured it would be interesting conversation here.

So, what you’re saying is, against a single target with no armor or anything but just the amulet, you can do pretty much the same amount of damage over time through direct damage, rather than conditions. That’s actually pretty sad….

What I’m saying is, with only the amulet stats from PvP (so generally, all exotic gear of the appropriate type), the kill time is similar, assuming only using the Scepter skills. Anything less than heavy armor, it’s faster to kill with Zerker gear (though not by much).

Given all those whiners that condition damage is sooooo OP. Well…

Everyone knows power is broken, otherwise it wouldn’t be the single go-to for the DPS race we fondly call “PvE”.

On a side note, conditions themselves tend to be weak, the valid complaining is more due to the fact that they scale with only one stat (two if you count duration, but that simply extends things), whereas power takes three. In your comparison, you’re using an amulet with full offensive stats vs an amulet with significant defensive stats (toughness), and one mediocre offensive stat (precision with no other power stats). You could just as easily use this example to show why conditions are broken: a heavily defensive amulet has comparable DPS to a fully offensive one (power is broken, thats why Ferocity happened, but its valid).

That’s part of why power is best in PvE, because it scales up using more stats, and thus has a higher ceiling, whereas condition damage has 1.5 stats, and so hits its max very easily, with more than enough room for defense. Plus conditions often have spammable AoE. Its why conditions really only see use in PvP.

While they could take it as evidence that condition damage is nearly matching zerker with fewer contributing stats, these particular numbers are brought on by the necro scepter’s horrid power scaling. I suppose I could do one more test with no amulet at all, though. I have a feeling the difference will be surprisingly small.

EDIT: Edited in the results for no amulet on the heavy golem. Sizeable difference in time to kill between no amulet and either amulet.

I think in a proper pve setting. Beserker scepter would still kill faster than rabid. Not sure though.

Btw there is no different power scaling on different weapons. They all scale the same. The only difference is base damage. Scepter has low base damage due to the conditions it applies and the fact that its ranged. Which means more of the damage is from the condi portion which is why its not great for beserker builds. I guess thats what you mean by power scaling, but thats a misleading way to refer to it.

Those test results are quite predictable, I’m afraid.
Anet would have to (at least) double the damage conditions do in PvE to match direct damage output, even after the ferocity patch.

Bhawb.7408:

You could just as easily use this example to show why conditions are broken: a heavily defensive amulet has comparable DPS to a fully offensive one

….with a condition weapon.
There would be not contest if he used dagger or axe instead intead.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Btw there is no different power scaling on different weapons. They all scale the same. The only difference is base damage. Scepter has low base damage due to the conditions it applies and the fact that its ranged. Which means more of the damage is from the condi portion which is why its not great for beserker builds. I guess thats what you mean by power scaling, but thats a misleading way to refer to it.

There is different scaling, as each skill has its own power coefficient. My calculations on the matter showed scepter to have .35-.35-.5 on the auto attack, .7 on grasping dead, and 1.1 on Feast of Corruption. By comparison, Dagger main hand has .45/.45-.7-1.2 on the auto chain, .3 (*9, so 2.7 total) on Life Siphon, and .75 on Dark Pact.

This shouldn’t be a surprise, since it’s well known that dagger kills much faster than scepter, despite having lower weapon damage.

Sorry. Dunno why i blanked and forgot about the skill coefficients. The base damage is calculated from skill coefficients so i guess whats why i was being stupid.