Scourge: Demonic Lore too good ?

Scourge: Demonic Lore too good ?

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Posted by: leasm.1279

leasm.1279

Just played a little bit with Scourge, against golems, so I may still have a noob view of some mechanics and traits..

But when planning my traits, one question came to mind:
- Isn’t Demonic Lore too good to pass?

My initial goal was getting the greater shade to make shade management easier, but having so much potential for spreading AoE fire seems just too powerful. Has anyone else a better comparison of this trait against the other ones?

Scourge: Demonic Lore too good ?

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Posted by: EremiteAngel.9765

EremiteAngel.9765

Not sure what game mode you’re interested in, but if things remain the way they are, I would take Demonic Lore for solo roaming in WvW.

Gives more burning reapplication options with Fear > Torment > Burn for the Scourge, just like how I used Blind > (Fear)Chill > Bleed build for my Reaper in the same game mode for more Bleed reapplication.
Reaper seems to be able to reapply bleeds more often than Scourge can with burns though given the current sigils/runes/traits/skills.

I count for Reaper Blind > (Fear)Chill > Bleed in a possible build (there are other options):

  • Main traits that make up the reapplication chain
  • Chilling darkness: Blinding a target will also apply chill. (3 Sec CD)
  • Deathly Chill: Applies 3 stack bleeding whenever chill is applied (No CD)
  • Shivers of Dread: Whenever you inflict fear, you also chill. (No CD)

Reapplication abilities in a possible build:

  • Sigil of Ice x 2: Chill
  • Sigil of Hydromancy: Chill
  • Sigil of Mischief: Blind
  • Rune of Grenth: Chill x 2
  • Dagger 4 Blind
  • Staff 3 Chilled
  • Staff 5 Fear
  • Shroud 2 dash Blind
  • Shroud 2 Leap finisher on Shroud 5’s Ice field for Frost Aura Chill
  • Shroud 3 Fear
  • Shroud 5 Fear
  • Shroud 4 Whirl finisher on Shroud 5’s Ice field Chill
  • Corrupt Fury boon to Blind
  • Corrupt Resistance to Chilled
  • And your Utility and Elite skills depending on what you take can apply chill/blind/fear too.
  • And not counting other direct bleed application

I count Fear > Torment > Burn for the Scourge in a possible build (there are other options):

  • Main traits that make up the reapplication chain
  • Demonic Lore: Torment you inflict deals increased damage and causes your foes to burn. (3 Sec CD)
  • Terrifying Descent: When you fear a foe inflict torment. (no CD but capped by Demonic Lore’s CD)

Reapplication abilities in a possible build:

  • Sigil of Torment x 2: Torment
  • Rune of Tormenting: Torment
  • Staff 5 Fear
  • Torch 4 Torment
  • Torch 5 Torment
  • Scepter 3 Torment
  • Shroud 4 Fear
  • Shroud 5 Torment
  • Corrupt Stability to Fear
  • There are no boons that corrupt into Torment unless using Punishment skills. We got something Unique!
  • And your Utility and Elite skills depending on what you take can apply Fear/Torment but depends on having boons to corrupt into Torment
  • And not counting other direct burn application
Scourge Demo Weekend Roaming Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsby6rYkxS8

(edited by EremiteAngel.9765)

Scourge: Demonic Lore too good ?

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Posted by: Maxzero.4032

Maxzero.4032

Just played a little bit with Scourge, against golems, so I may still have a noob view of some mechanics and traits..

But when planning my traits, one question came to mind:
- Isn’t Demonic Lore too good to pass?

My initial goal was getting the greater shade to make shade management easier, but having so much potential for spreading AoE fire seems just too powerful. Has anyone else a better comparison of this trait against the other ones?

Its 2 × 3 sec burns on a 3 sec CD. So 2 perma burns, 4 with 100% duration (PvE only).

For a GM its not that amazing. Don’t get me wrong its nice but it does not look OP on the surface.

Scourge: Demonic Lore too good ?

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Posted by: Lahmia.2193

Lahmia.2193

Just played a little bit with Scourge, against golems, so I may still have a noob view of some mechanics and traits..

But when planning my traits, one question came to mind:
- Isn’t Demonic Lore too good to pass?

My initial goal was getting the greater shade to make shade management easier, but having so much potential for spreading AoE fire seems just too powerful. Has anyone else a better comparison of this trait against the other ones?

Its 2 × 3 sec burns on a 3 sec CD. So 2 perma burns, 4 with 100% duration (PvE only).

For a GM its not that amazing. Don’t get me wrong its nice but it does not look OP on the surface.

Don’t forget the +33% torment damage on top of the burns.

Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death.

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Posted by: Artaz.3819

Artaz.3819

Not sure what game mode you’re interested in, but if things remain the way they are, I would take Demonic Lore for solo roaming in WvW.

Gives more burning reapplication options with Fear > Torment > Burn for the Scourge, just like how I used Blind > (Fear)Chill > Bleed build for my Reaper in the same game mode for more Bleed reapplication.
Reaper seems to be able to reapply bleeds more often than Scourge can with burns though given the current sigils/runes/traits/skills.

I count for Reaper Blind > (Fear)Chill > Bleed in a possible build (there are other options):

  • Main traits that make up the reapplication chain
  • Chilling darkness: Blinding a target will also apply chill. (3 Sec CD)
  • Deathly Chill: Applies 3 stack bleeding whenever chill is applied (No CD)
  • Shivers of Dread: Whenever you inflict fear, you also chill. (No CD)

Reapplication abilities in a possible build:

  • Sigil of Ice x 2: Chill
  • Sigil of Hydromancy: Chill
  • Sigil of Mischief: Blind
  • Rune of Grenth: Chill x 2
  • Dagger 4 Blind
  • Staff 3 Chilled
  • Staff 5 Fear
  • Shroud 2 dash Blind
  • Shroud 2 Leap finisher on Shroud 5’s Ice field for Frost Aura Chill
  • Shroud 3 Fear
  • Shroud 5 Fear
  • Shroud 4 Whirl finisher on Shroud 5’s Ice field Chill
  • Corrupt Fury boon to Blind
  • Corrupt Resistance to Chilled
  • And your Utility and Elite skills depending on what you take can apply chill/blind/fear too.
  • And not counting other direct bleed application

I count Fear > Torment > Burn for the Scourge in a possible build (there are other options):

  • Main traits that make up the reapplication chain
  • Demonic Lore: Torment you inflict deals increased damage and causes your foes to burn. (3 Sec CD)
  • Terrifying Descent: When you fear a foe inflict torment. (no CD but capped by Demonic Lore’s CD)

Reapplication abilities in a possible build:

  • Sigil of Torment x 2: Torment
  • Rune of Tormenting: Torment
  • Staff 5 Fear
  • Torch 4 Torment
  • Torch 5 Torment
  • Scepter 3 Torment
  • Shroud 4 Fear
  • Shroud 5 Torment
  • Corrupt Stability to Fear
  • There are no boons that corrupt into Torment unless using Punishment skills. We got something Unique!
  • And your Utility and Elite skills depending on what you take can apply Fear/Torment but depends on having boons to corrupt into Torment
  • And not counting other direct burn application

Comparing it to Reaper (purely on paper), you need re-read Manifest Sand Shade. Every time you use a shade ability you apply torment. Every time. Now it takes Life Force each time but you see what theoretically could happen if LF generation is a focus/lots of death around you. That’s what my theory build is based upon since TTK in WvW will go way down with the huge PoF power creep in damage…

Regarding OP Sand Savant, you’ll want it situationally in WvW simply for tower offense (anti-seige)/defense or just for general PvE tagging. However, the GM trait is actually very weak even with the reduced cooldown when you consider how much it doesn’t synergize well with multiple condi cleanse of Abrasive Gift/Desert Empowerment or Unending Corruption or even heavy Punishment utility use/Sadistic Searing or the Manifest Sand Shade mechanic and Blood is Sand is also weaker (if I recall correctly). Sand Savant GM trait needs to be increased to at least 50%-66% cooldown reduction from 33% reduction honestly to compete or it could reduce the Lifeforce cost of all Shade abilities. It’s actually really really bad in current implementation just because of how it doesn’t synergize with traits in it’s own trait line.

(edited by Artaz.3819)

Scourge: Demonic Lore too good ?

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Posted by: Kaladel.1670

Kaladel.1670

- Isn’t Demonic Lore too good to pass?

I don’t think so. Every GM of this track has its appeal, it just depends of what you are looking for/the kind of build you play.

Sand Savant is the “I don’t want to manage shades and still get the benefit” trait.
Demonic Lore is the “DPS” trait.
Feed from Corruption is “sadistic kitten” (or PvP) trait.

A trait is too good when you don’t feel like you are loosing something nice when you take it. (Like pre-nerf Vital Persistence) I don’t think this is the case here.

(edited by Kaladel.1670)

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Posted by: Brujeria.7536

Brujeria.7536

No, in the current state it wont. With max condi dura demonic lore equals 2 stacks of perma burning. That is nothing. Also the 33% torment damage increase isn’t amazing at all. Given the fact that is JUST torment, and torment most of the time equals the damage of a bleed.. we dont actually cause that much torment. People keep saying “yes but we do torment with EVERY shade skill”. Yeah. We do. 2 seconds. With full condi its 4 seconds. With the trait this equals ~ an effective 5,3 seconds of torment per shade skill. Thats not much in the current meta at all. The biggest damage potential is Shade 5 with Dhuumfire. Apart from that, well. We only increase torment. We dont cause that much torment on base necros, necro is a bleed class.

Ele on the other hand gets a MASTER trait, that increases ALL condi durations by 20% and ALL condi damage by 10%. That alone is better than our GRANDMASTER.

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Posted by: Zefiris.8297

Zefiris.8297

Dhuumfire is a lot stronger than it. The 33% Torment damage is far stronger than people like Brujeria realize, but it is still not strong enough to be the obvious pick.

It’s likely only mandatory for a pure DPS role, in which case it does put us in a fairly good spot if one also takes dhuumfire and uses a MH dagger.