Guild Wars 2

So this is an interesting topic that I’d like to bring up with the community because the implications that the scourge has made are interesting. Although not new, they do deserve some discussion as this lore will influence the Necromancer’s future elite specializations.

Lets start with the first point. The Scourge denies the method of necromancy used by Palawa Joko. Wait what? How is Joko’s Magic Different than the core necromancer’s? This is something that I feel we’ll be exploring in Living world Season 4 since this is an extremely important lore piece for us. Its mentioned that the Scourge “Protects souls” which might suggest that Joko uses them to fuel his power. The Devouring of souls perhaps? That does fit within the necromancer theme for sure, and Joko does seem like the guy to do that. But what’s also interesting is that the Scourge doesn’t seem to summon minions. Now, we don’t have all the skills revealed to us so this could be false, but if they don’t it could be more along a deeper connection to the desert and the spirits themselves. This is important to note.

The second point I want to bring up is the Spirits themselves. The Lore of the necromancer and the lore of the Ritualist has always been a bit hazy when it came to each other and their has always been a large amount of overlap between them. The scourge blurs that line between the two even more, suggesting that there is absolutely nothing the Ritualist could do that the necromancer can’t do. The Scourge does seem to have some similarities to the Ritualist though with the flavor of the desert in its soul. Even its Mechanic has some similarities to the ritualist’s spirits which I find extremely interesting.

Going beyond this the skill descriptions for the scourge make another stunning revelation for us. The necromancer CAN rip between realities. Their elite specifically opens a portal to the realm of torment. A feet that the community has argued only the Revenant can do… I mean, that was never the case as shadow stepping is a less sophisticated version of what the revenant does, but this was a point that was hard to argue but now we have more and solid proof.

So I want to open it up. What are your guys’s thoughts on the lore we’ve got so far? I’m really interested in the magic Palawa Joko prefers and what that might mean for future expansions.

Big bags of sand.

For the Souls reference, you have to understand that Soul and Body are 2 very different concepts in the realm of Guild wars Necromancy. This is even elaborated on with Oola, and her postulation that Necromancy and Golemency are practically identical in concept.

The minions necros make are constructs of flesh, but their powered by the magic of their masters. They don’t inherently posses a soul, don’t have free will, and barely any instinct. Golems are pretty much the same way, except their power source is usually a magic battery. They don’t have intelligence, but instead have an extensive Flow Graph and Pattern recognition engine, that allows them select programmed responses to environmental conditions or commands. They have no memory in a conventional sense, but can pull data samples from other sources (including internal storage) if it needs to make comparisons. While it shouldn’t in most cases, this does lead to Golem AI extrapolating in cases of misidentification; leading to undesired results. So in essence, Golems can’t reason, nor change their intended behavior due to circumstances… thus can’t be corrupted or coerced. However, they can be fooled by logic loop holes or data substitutions.

The Rata Novus meta with Zildi touches on this, as the Defense Matrix consider human, charr and norn as high risk. Theres also no entry for Sylvari, since they didn’t exist when those protocols were established. So to simply the filtering, so it’ll target the chak, she set the protocol to recognize all bipeds as Asuran, and thus white listed in the defense system.

The concept of a Soul comes into play when you’re dealing with Intellect involving necromatic constructs, and autonomy. To an extent, this also covers Sylvari, since they lack souls, but are intelligent. Normally necromancers will build constructs, and command them directly with their will. This means they lack autonomy, and can’t stray from from their master/power-source. However, you can Bind a soul into, or give intelligence to, a construct using magic, allowing that soul/intellect to control the construct as a body. Additional wards and spells can then be layered on top of that to limit what that soul can do, or punish/prevent it from taking certain actions. The most common of these binding spells is subservience… giving the soul freedom to make decisions, so long as it complies with its master’s wishes. This is the type of Magic Jako uses to raise and control his armies, as did Zhaitan with the Risen hoards.

This gives the impression that souls are energy that passes into the mist upon death; but can be recalled from the Mists to “wake” that intelligence, and need additional sources of energy to keep them bound to their host bodies. This explains why most risen exist in a perpetually deluded, dream like state… often parroting the routines of their previous life out of habit, without awareness beyond their immediate surroundings. Even Ghosts of the Foe Fire exhibit similar behavior.
However, stronger souls have expanded awareness, and can become cognizant of their surroundings and situation. They retain the ability to reason, can more easily recall memories of their past life, and project their will to manipulate magic. Artificial souls and beings have also been known form in the wake of events involving mist energy, usually as a reflection of the strongest patterns where energy can intersect.

However….. a lot of this muddied by the apparent distinction between a soul and an intelligence. There is some inconsistency in the lore, but it does seem that Souls contain both Intelligence and Energy, but Intelligence is for the most part just a pattern. This plays into the idea of The Mists being raw ethereal energy given shape when that energy coalesces, or resonate with intense energy occurring on the physical plane. Its also used as the explanation as to why fractals seem to form around disasters and battles, as theres always extreme magical or emotional forces resonating at the event’s peak.

Now addressing the difference between Necro and Ritualist, they actually focus on different aspects as a result of their cultural origins.

Necromancers are of western influence, which puts a strong emphasis on the physical world, and treats the beyond as an almost unknowable existence. Thus spirits that pass into the beyond are normally out of reach without divine intervention. However, spirits shackled to the physical plane through places or objects of strong emotional significance, can be pulled from purgatory and manifest if enough energy is presented to sustain them. In rare cases, the spirit’s can provide enough of their own energy, or leech from another source, to will themselves into the physical plane, manifesting in some form or another.
However the main focus on Necromancy is the practice of transferring energy, usually life force, between objects to impart some kind of effect. Objects that previously housed life, like dead bodies, are already attuned to the type of energy Necros utilize… making them prefect vessels to receive and manipulate energy as they see fit.

Ritualists are drawn from Eastern influence. It views the physical world and spirit world as coexisting, but separated by a barrier of awareness. Life is energy, and flows back and forth between the 2 worlds in an endless cycle. The Ritualist is trained to become a conduit between these states of existence, allowing the energy of the spirit world to flow back into the physical. They can invoke and shape this energy themselves, or commune with spirits to manipulate it on their behalf.

Thus the Necro commands energy that exists in, or is connected to (currently or previously) living creatures within the physical plane; while the Ritualist draws its energy directly from the spirit world.

starlinvf.1358:

Thus the Necro commands energy that exists in, or is connected to (currently or previously) living creatures within the physical plane; while the Ritualist draws its energy directly from the spirit world.

You’re really trying to split hairs on this one. But that’s not accurate. Ritualist doesn’t have to draw energy from spirits that have passed. This has never been the case since many Canthan heroes linger on tyria.

ALSO! the lore of the Scourge suggests they have a strong connection to the realm of torment, which is a spirit world which the scourge is directly linking to. So, again, no real difference between the two aside from a cultural divide.

The way I see it, scourges are ritualists in disguise.
Scourge seems not to be a very fitting name for our new elite spec at this point lore wise from what we currently know.

Scourge means in conventional terms a tormentor or a tool for punishment. But here we have scourges that go against Palawa Joko necromancy (which I presume is really scourgy) and use their life force to gain protection from shades. Yes the scourge does pack a ton of torment and new skills categorised as punishment. But the whole protector of souls and one with the desert theme seems to cast scourge in a much brighter role than the name would imply.

I Guess we would have to have some reason why necromancers have to fight Joko, who is also a necromancer. I would prefer the reasons to be of a more selfish and dark kind though than the bright protector role that seems to be implied thus far.

Not fitting for necromancers. And not fitting for the name Scourge. More fitting for ritualists as the name of our new elite spec though. As they give me the sense of respecting the dead.

Joko’s necromancy is a bit different from “standard” necromancy – this was true even in GW1, and extends to Khilbron, the Am Fah, Verata, etc.

Effectively, necromancers have a boundary they do not cross when dealing with the undead – namely less in “what” and more in “how”. The thing about Scourge “protecting souls” being counter to Joko is that Joko imprisons and binds souls for his army. He seems (Note: not entirely proven) to bind souls into his undead too, this being why the Awakened are mostly sentient (though this seems to have degraded based on the trailer…) as opposed to minions players can summon (in either game), or even GW1’s Orrian undead. The only other individual known to command souls for an army was Shiro Tagachi as an Envoy.

Joko does not devour souls – that is a purely demonic and godly deed (so far).

As for the second point: Basically, Tyrian and Elonian necromancers did some things that ritualists in Cantha did, because ritualists did not exist in Tyria or Elona. Ritualists summon, bind, and guide the souls of the dead – in Cantha, necromancers do not do this, but in Tyria and Elona, they do to a much lesser degree. Their means of summoning souls is a lot longer and more dangerous (see A Good Deed. and Speaker of the Dead ). This is why there’s an overlap – Tyria and Elona do not have a ritualist profession, so necromancers there do “double duty” so to speak (or vice versa: Cantha has ritualists, so necromancers don’t do as much).

Scourge seems to be taking a step closer to ritualism and making those overlapping actions easier, specializing towards it.

As for “necromancers can rip realities” – it’s long established lore that a lot of death leads to places being closer to the Mists. This is why so many communing hero challenges in core Tyria are places of mass murder…

BTW, Revenants never ripped reality. They channeled the power of the Mists to borrow power of legendary figures – literally letting themselves to be psuedo-possessed by echoes created by the Mists of those figures. Scourges, instead, seem to use mass deaths to create small fractures between Tyria and the Mists, just like Lord Odran or the nameless necromancer who messed up Godlost Swamp but in a controlled, temporary nature.

To me they reminded me of a ‘Ritualist’ almost.