Guild Wars 2

There are a large number of traits that all have something happen, or some stat change, while in shroud. A lot of people have also been posting builds that suggest using them.

Thing is, they don’t seem to do anything. Those that call for casting a skill when entering a shroud never pop when creating shades, and those that increase stats or change duration also seem to never work.

I’ve been testing and have no idea why they would design this to make so many traits completely obsolete.

Traits I found that, when tested, seem to have no function with Scourge:

Curses: Furious Demise, Lesser Enfeeble.
Death Magic: Armored Shroud, Shrouded Removal, Deadly Strength 14%, Beyond the Veil, Unholy Sanctuary.
Spite: Rending shroud, Spiteful Spirit.
Blood Magic: Life From Death, Unholy Martyr
Soul Reaping: Speed of Shadows, Foot in the Grave.

All of those work on F5.

That changes everything

too bad desert shroud is on a 16sec cooldown vs normal shroud which is 10…

Azzara Nectum.1734:

too bad desert shroud is on a 16sec cooldown vs normal shroud which is 10…

20 seconds cooldown. It’s only 16 with Vital Persistence.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Azzara Nectum.1734:

too bad desert shroud is on a 16sec cooldown vs normal shroud which is 10…

20 seconds cooldown. It’s only 16 with Vital Persistence.

Yes, but everyone will run Soul Reaper with Vital anyway, other 2 traits are garbage and Scourge has an insane synergy with Dhuumfire…

Many of the “In shroud” traits don’t have synergy with what is given to the scourge. Death Perception for example would seem good, except if you want that extra 50% crit chance for something, you might as well just run reaper and take decimate defenses. Others don’t fair too well either. Rending shroud, Signet of Spite, shrouded removal, deadly strength, Unholy Sanctuary and Unholy Martyr also don’t fair too well with that short duration. especially when those traits are intended to gain their power through long duration in shroud, which the F5 just doesn’t offer to the profession.

To be fair, most of these traits are under powered as it stands, and a rework would be nice. Death Perception is still good on builds outside of scourge, but the fact that so many are just lack luster with core and reaper and even worse on scourge is problematic. Scourge doesn’t seem to have very many build options to it. Not as many as Reaper does. Although I still personally believe the build options the scourge does have are superior to reaper, but this is a complicated issue we’ve all heard before and no point going too deep into it here.

The thing is, F2 is so godly I’m ok to have diminished versions of all the traits OP mentioned. Path of corruption with F2 is amazing.

Ramoth.9064:

The thing is, F2 is so godly I’m ok to have diminished versions of all the traits OP mentioned. Path of corruption with F2 is amazing.

I can also see life from death coming to life after being dead for so long

Remap keys;

• F5 to F1
• F1 to F5

Seems to make sense. F1 remains shroud and the awkward new Shade mechanic goes away onto awkward, hard to reach key.

Svarty.8019:

Remap keys;

• F5 to F1
• F1 to F5

Seems to make sense. F1 remains shroud and the awkward new Shade mechanic goes away onto awkward, hard to reach key.

Nooooooooooooo!!!!!1!1!1!!oneoneone

Transfusion also didnt make it in the gameplay/skill yet.
i waited so long for this skill to do smth in a support build. but… nope <.<
would have been so amazing awesome to have it on f5 !

Aetatis.5418:

Transfusion also didnt make it in the gameplay/skill yet.
i waited so long for this skill to do smth in a support build. but… nope <.<
would have been so amazing awesome to have it on f5 !

It works with F4. Its been buffed too on scourge pretty much.

on f4? are you sure? because thats the fear? doest it even pulse then?
on f5 (the big barrier shroud pulsing thingie) it didnt work for me. i tried it for almost hours on mobs and in wvw trains.

edit: i clearly missed that transfuison on f4 (fear). i was so focused on f5 (because thats the pulsing one) that i never saw any effects on the f4. wow xD

Yeah, it’s the Fear. You get 9 pulses of just healing from that.
However, this only pulses from you, not your shades.

ye, saw a stream today. its fine – actually its pretty good. although not intentional, since f5 is the pulsing one. but fear + heal + rez seems to be fairly good in wvw (+ lesser well of blood, when traited).

thx

SneakyTouchy.6043:

That changes everything

Haha, I had the exact same concern as you until someone pointed out that F5 is Scourge’s shroud. Then I thought, 20 second CD shroud that lasts 6 seconds? Bit weak… I don’t want to buff Scourge any more than it needs, but if the CD is going to be 16-20 seconds, then it should last at the very least, 8 seconds, at the very least. Also, I think pulsing barrier might be nice for it since I have a good feeling Anet won’t change barrier’s moronically low decay timer.

Also, look on the bright side. You don’t have to worry about double tapping shroud anymore.

Seriously, why did they fix portal’s double tap problem but not Death/Reaper shrouds’? A .25 second CD wouldn’t have been noticeable.

List of core necromancer shroud based traits
On enter/exit effects
spiteful spirit, furious demise, weakening shroud, beyond the veil, life from death,
foot in the grave, speed of shadows

Staying in shroud effects
armored shroud, rending shroud, shrouded removal, deadly strength,
unholy sanctuary, unholy matyr, death perception

Shroud skills enchancement
unyielding blast, reaper’s might, dhuumfire, transfusion, path of corruption

With the new elite specialization, shroud based traits are very weak. I suggest for this upcoming elite specialization and for future elite specializations that a standard is set for core necromancer shroud base traits. The AIM is to EQUALIZE the strength of CORE SHROUD TRAITS.

To achieve this goal I suggest change these traits to upon using lifeforce.

examples
death perception
upon using lifeforce your critical hit chance is increase by 50% for 10 seconds

Dhuumfire
upon using lifeforce your next attack will burn your target
3second cd

Tadsoul, you may not notice this, but your suggestion essentially nerfs scourge to the ground :/

Your version of Dhuumfire pretty much kills the pressure we can apply, for example.
The new traits are NOT weak with scourge. Many of them are stronger, in fact.

balance can be achieved through number adjustment,
for example 9stacks of burn for 15 seconds make it overpowered.

The focus was on the mechanic shifting the effects to the use of lifeforce.
Scourge would would lifeforce with its abilities
reaper and core use lifeforce every second while in shroud

Lets do the “surface” math between Core/Reaper and Scourge shroud traits.
“Need extended game play testing for actual full conclusion!”

Spite
-Reaper’s Might: Weaker.
Even if all F-skills grant 1 stack of might its still weaker with Scourge. Acceptable, unless you are camping shroud.
-Rending Shroud: Useless. With 3sec. interval of application this is absolutely pointless.
-Spiteful Spirit: Weaker. Like all traits that works only on “enter/exit”. This is the only significant nerf in Spite in my opinion.

Curses
-Furious Demise: Weaker. This is rather weak trait anyway.
-Path of Corruption: Stronger. Because of the F2 skill lower cd, this is definitely a boost.
-Weakening Shroud: Weaker. Similar to Spiteful Spirit, maybe even worst if F5 doesn’t crit. Need to be tested.

Death Magic
-Armored Shroud: Weaker.
-Shrouded Removal: Useless. Absolutely pointless trait with Scourge
-Deadly Strength: Useless. Debatable, but I would never use this because it lasts only 6 sec. And we wont use F5 on cd.
-Beyond the Veil: Weaker.
-Unholy Sanctuary: Useless. Already very weak trait. 6sec of practically nothing + nothing, because there is no 2nd HP bar to save us from the “Lethal blow”…

Blood Magic
-Life from Death: Weaker. The trait got buffed because of that, but its now twice as good in core/reaper scenario.
-Unholy Martyr: Useless. Another very weak trait that might be used with non support scourge, because of the LF gen. Still not very likely, but might get there.
-Transfusion: Stronger. Much stronger and also heals the necro. <3

Soul Reaping
-Unyielding Blast: Weaker. Acceptable if it works with all F-skills.
-Speed of Shadows: Same. I never really liked this trait before and rarely used it. That’s why I fail to see the reason why people are so upset with the changes?! I like the new trait more, but find the swiftness part weaker. It should pulse 2s of swiftness every sec.
-Vital Persistence: Same. It got nerfed, but 180Vit is overall good in Scourge.
-Foot in the Grave: Weaker.
-Death Perception: Useless. I probably wouldn’t take this with Scourge.
-Dhuumfire: Stronger. Shades allow for much larger application, which is the biggest upside. Also can be use as spike damage. The core/reaper application is underwhelming.

This is how I see the traits. Probably I miss some points and other will be changed/turn out better or worst in the near future (22.09 wink wink)

mazut.4296:

-Speed of Shadows: Same. I never really liked this trait before and rarely used it. That’s why I fail to see the reason why people are so upset with the changes?

I find it mindboggling that someone who doesn’t see Shroud recharge being reduced from 10s to 7s as a big deal considers themselves an authority on Shroud oriented traits.

If you notice, most of the build defining grandmaster shroud traits are weaker/much weaker.

Scourge is going to have a super limited build diversity.

Edit: the new speed of shadows gives the class very badly needed extra protection against immobilize. The recharge is longer, but it’s available all the time. Will need testing to see if this is worse now for the scourge than the reaper.

Svarty.8019:

mazut.4296:

-Speed of Shadows: Same. I never really liked this trait before and rarely used it. That’s why I fail to see the reason why people are so upset with the changes?

I find it mindboggling that someone who doesn’t see Shroud recharge being reduced from 10s to 7s as a big deal considers themselves an authority on Shroud oriented traits.

You called me authority on shroud, ty and no I don’t find 3sec significant, at all. Only ever used this trait when building bunker necro like 3 years ago, before HoT came out.

mazut.4296:

Svarty.8019:

mazut.4296:

-Speed of Shadows: Same. I never really liked this trait before and rarely used it. That’s why I fail to see the reason why people are so upset with the changes?

I find it mindboggling that someone who doesn’t see Shroud recharge being reduced from 10s to 7s as a big deal considers themselves an authority on Shroud oriented traits.

You called me authority on shroud, ty and no I don’t find 3sec significant, at all. Only ever used this trait when building bunker necro like 3 years ago, before HoT came out.

Perhaps someone else should evaluate Shroud traits instead, then.

I want a second opinion!

Everyone is forgetting blood magic when talking about scourge.

“Last rites”
+150 healing power above 75% hp
+300 healing power below 75% hp
+450 healing power below 50% hp

450. FOR FREE.
That’s a minor trait; you just get that. FOR FREE
Barriers will be good in those clutch situations where you need to buy time for your healer and you won’t even need a single infusion’s worth of healing power being slotted in for it.

In terms of damage, ofc soul reaping wins. You can’t compete with the dhuumfire shenanigans. But for support? Blood magic. A little bit of healing, a lot a bit of free healing power.

Imo they’re both insanely strong traitlines, but for different reasons.

Murdock.6547:

Everyone is forgetting blood magic when talking about scourge.

“Last rites”
+150 healing power above 75% hp
+300 healing power below 75% hp
+450 healing power below 50% hp

450. FOR FREE.
That’s a minor trait; you just get that. FOR FREE
Barriers will be good in those clutch situations where you need to buy time for your healer and you won’t even need a single infusion’s worth of healing power being slotted in for it.

In terms of damage, ofc soul reaping wins. You can’t compete with the dhuumfire shenanigans. But for support? Blood magic. A little bit of healing, a lot a bit of free healing power.

Imo they’re both insanely strong traitlines, but for different reasons.

I understand the idea behind the trait, but staying under 50% wont be that easy. In PvP you want to be full hp and in PvE you will just be healed by your allies, unless soloing. So it will be +150 most of the time. Its there to help you in bad situations when you are under pressure.