Guild Wars 2

@Jknifer.6803 Just wow so you actually feel usefull when you pop every well? and then hide in your zerg untill you can feel usefull again for another 5sec :>.

When you say the stuff about locus signet im starting to doubt you even play necro, ill let you ponder over that for a while. Here’s a hint the range isnt that impressive.

What would you expect a signet saying TRANSFER do? oh right COPY wait what so im helping the enemy by hurting myself? no wait i can copy alot of stuff to myself so i can transfer “woops almost did it myself there :p” i mean ofc cut paste the condition to the enemy. Arcane Thievery would rox for necro :>

Also very impressive how you have stability while standing in the enemy zerg which well gives it?

wiazabi.2549:

@Jknifer.6803 Just wow so you actually feel usefull when you pop every well? and then hide in your zerg untill you can feel usefull again for another 5sec :>.

When you say the stuff about locus signet im starting to doubt you even play necro, ill let you ponder over that for a while. Here’s a hint the range isnt that impressive.

What would you expect a signet saying TRANSFER do? oh right COPY wait what so im helping the enemy by hurting myself? no wait i can copy alot of stuff to myself so i can transfer “woops almost did it myself there :p” i mean ofc cut paste the condition to the enemy. Arcane Thievery would rox for necro :>

Also very impressive how you have stability while standing in the enemy zerg which well gives it?

Sorry man, I don’t have the energy to argue with a bunch of bads who haven’t figured out how to play a class because they are too busy theory crafting and whining on the forums. Maybe one day someone will post a build with a comprehensive explanation which you can all copy and feel pro. Till then keep hatin bro…

@Jknifter Im sorry to upset you like that but lying and saying stuff like transfer isnt transfer would make plaque signet almost pointless, locus signet do not have 1200 range, yes it says so in the description but it also says nearby foes which is exactly what it does as in a pbaoe.

And if you wanted to play a pure support then why not a guardian ? you give so soo much more, stability, aegis, projectile block wall, boons, regen, condition cure, immunity shields, massive heals.

Im sorry that you had to resort to the old bads and stuff and how people havent figured out how to play the class when alot of people that play feel the class have ALOT of missing things that would make different builds more viable.

But if you like your pathetic dmg then thats just fine.

I think plague signet works as intended but they worded it wrongly, just like a ton of other abilities across the game. That’s my opinion.

Just like the locust signet, it says 1200 range but I’ve never tested it at that range so I didn’t know the tool tip was incorrect. I only use it to run faster if I’m solo or doing PVE. I was just noting that it scales to a pretty nice heal if you want to use it.

I run 4 wells instead. And I don’t run in and drop all 4 wells at once and run back out like some noob, our guild uses TS and we co-ordinate our combo fields.

I really cant be bothered explaining the benefits of wells and how combo fields work. But here’s a tip, a water combo with a blast finish gives a big AOE heal, A Well of Blood right next to a water combo gives even more healing and a light combo field. All the other wells give dark combo fields. Combo fields over-write each other. I’ll stop there because the majority of you are probably scratching your heads right now.

Less QQ more L2P please.

Is it crazy that while I have lowbie alts, I still only ever play my main necro. The short time I’ve played over 4 builds of her, all decked out with exotics. I don’t know, with all the claims of her shortcomings I should probably shelf her but I just couldn’t.

Anyone who isn’t an altist too, like me?

p/s – nothing gives satisfaction like that of a QQ from a player who sneaks behind enemy lines to try own u coz (hey there’s a clothie let’s pawn her) and find that you are actually a tougher nut to crack than you seem to be

abelooi.9156:

Is it crazy that while I have lowbie alts, I still only ever play my main necro. The short time I’ve played over 4 builds of her, all decked out with exotics. I don’t know, with all the claims of her shortcomings I should probably shelf her but I just couldn’t.

Anyone who isn’t an altist too, like me?

p/s – nothing gives satisfaction like that of a QQ from a player who sneaks behind enemy lines to try own u coz (hey there’s a clothie let’s pawn her) and find that you are actually a tougher nut to crack than you seem to be

Ya I’m with you. Its like when I run into a zerg and they all swarm on me cause I look squishy then all hell breaks loose and we casually collect the bags while they go wtf just happened. Its fun to be the bait.

I totally dissagre with you, Necromancer being one of the strongest class in pvp and wvw. It’s also the hardest class in the game to kill you have to perma stun em to get em down.

All the specs i’ve come up with have been working very well.

Controll build: Built around Chill, Fear and Blind
Healing Build: Staffbuild with wells . And healing from death shroud.
Dps heal: Focused on doing damage while in Death Shroud and some healing.
Cond dmg: With Coruptions, scepter and dagger
Cond Burst AoE dmg: Staff conditions and burst crits from Death Shroud.

Yeah, I feel like the necro is pretty strong. They’re probably at about mid-level strength. Once their many bugs are fixed and ANet starts giving them some love like the elementalist got they’ll be in a really great place.

Quillixx.7034:

• The only profession that truly isn’t ready for a released product.

Lot of really good points raised which Anet would be wise to consider for helping Necro’s out, I don’t agree that the class isn’t ready for release. Its viable enough on the Condition-spec to be playable and just make ‘par’ so to speak by (barely) scraping across the line in some condition specs. I still play mine, I kill a lot of people in wvw and it gets the job done.

I wont kid anyone though, all my utility skills have been the same 3-4 regular and 4 situational-use (wells) ones with Plague Form as my elite for about 900 of the last 1100hrs of playtime… because the rest are so bad, completely useless, underwhelming and just downright awful you would have to be drunk to think they’re any good.

Does this make the necro a completely unsalvageable pile of excrement? No of course not, they have in my opinion:
1. Probably the best self-heal in the game with consume conditions and one of the better high output, AOE, static heals with the well.
2. Maybe ‘the best’ set of combo-fields available.
3. One of the most (situational) devastating (to players) AoE abilities in the game with epidemic

The problem with those 3 is, that to truly work well, you need the right situation, circumstances, friends to play with to maximize the output and potential of your necromancer.
Its not like any other class where you can just roll out the door, no brainer mash 2-3 buttons along with your auto-attack and be instantly rewarded… like heartseeker spam or 100-blades. Plus, you hope to heck that whatever you’ve just invested yourself into, is something that you can actually kill, because you’re not leaving unless it or you is dead!

Anet probably likes to call this a ‘hard to master and rewarding’ player experience… but that’s probably because you’re running at around 1/4 to 1/3 of the actually viable playstyle options than any other full career does!

Modimor.4319:

I totally dissagre with you, Necromancer being one of the strongest class in pvp and wvw. It’s also the hardest class in the game to kill you have to perma stun em to get em down.

All the specs i’ve come up with have been working very well.

Controll build: Built around Chill, Fear and Blind
Healing Build: Staffbuild with wells . And healing from death shroud.
Dps heal: Focused on doing damage while in Death Shroud and some healing.
Cond dmg: With Coruptions, scepter and dagger
Cond Burst AoE dmg: Staff conditions and burst crits from Death Shroud.

¿?

I love my necro, but man… srly

Quillixx.7034:

• The only profession with a weapon projectile that takes 4s to travel to max distance

How can people complain about Necro’s Staff #1 when Guardian’s Scepter #1 is so much worse? Sure Necrotic Grasp’s projectile is slow but it also hits EVERYTHING in a line, gives Life Force for each enemy it hits, and has a 20% chance to act as a Projectile Finisher. Necro’s Staff can at least deal damage to moving targets thanks to Marks, unlike Guardian’s Scepter with Smite.

Quillixx.7034:

• The lowest damage profession in the game

Just flat out wrong/overly dramatic.

Quillixx.7034:

• The profession with the fewest combo field/finishers in the game

-Well of Blood: Light Field
- Spectral Wall: Ethereal Field
-Well of Suffering: Dark Field
- Well of Corruption: Dark Field
- Well of Power: Dark Field
- Well of Darkness: Dark Field
- Corrosive Poison Cloud: Poison Field
- Chillblains (Staff): Poison Field
- Foul Current (Trident): Poison Field

• 9 skills, 4 types of fields

- Necrotic Grasp (Staff): 20% Projectile Finisher
- Dark Spear (Spear): Projectile Finisher
- Summon Bone Fiend: Projectile Finisher x2
- Summon Flesh Wurm: Projectile Finisher
- Wicked Spiral (Spear): Whirl Finisher
- Deadly Catch (Spear): Whirl Finisher
- Putrid Mark (Staff): Blast Finisher
- Frozen Abyss (Trident): Blast Finisher
- Necrotic Traversal (Summon Flesh Wurm): Blast Finisher
- Putrid Explosion (Summon Bone Minions): Blast Finisher
- Foul Current (Trident): Leap Finisher

• 11 skills, 4 types of finishers

Guardians:
Fields – 9 skills, 2 types
Finishers – 8 skills, 4 types
Necro’s have 3 more finisher abilities and 2 more types of combo fields.

Mesmers:
Fields – 7 skills, 2 types
Finishers – 9 skills, 4 types
Necro’s have 2 more finisher abilities, 2 more field abilities, and 2 more types of fields.

Quillixx.7034:

• The only profession that has abilities that hinder ourselves

Necromancers are also the only profession that can send all of their conditions (or hindrances) to an enemy. Hmm, I wonder why.

Quillixx.7034:

• The only profession without burst movement weapon attack or utility

• Necrotic Traversal (Summon Flesh Wurm):
  - Instant cast time and can be used during other actions
  - Breaks stuns
  - 1,200 range teleport

• Spectral Walk:
  - 30s Swiftness
  - Breaks stuns
  - Can teleport back to starting position within 8 seconds

• Dark Path (Death Shroud):
  - Homing missile
  - 900 range teleport to an enemy

• Foul Current (Trident):
  - 600 range leap/dash

• Locust Swarm (Warhorn):
  - 10s Swiftness

• Decaying Swarm (Soul Reaping):
  - 10s Swiftness when you hit 25% health

@Somoe.3621

Oh wow, it’s opposite day! Guardians and Mesmers are worse off then Necros.

Now to refute you:

Guardian scepter is bad? Dunno never seen one use it. Might be I guess, good thing they have staff huh?

You do realize we have some of the worst power scaling in the game don’t you? Just check out the direct damage from axe and staff marks or compare our weapon DPS with a warrior longbow or rifle or… anything really. Hell throw in Mesmer GS, Thief Dagger, Elem dagger into the mix, the difference is absurd. We only have 2 good power scaling attacks, dagger auto (our only melee skill, ever notice that?) and DS lifeblast at 50%< LF.

Of those combo fields, 5 are Utilities which must be traited for ranged casting, 1 is an underwater dash and only 1 is on a weapon skill, not so great now is it?

For the finishers, 5 are underwater added on the December patch, 4 are tied to minions( good god I can’t remember the last time I triggered a blast finisher with Necrotic Traversal) which are utility skills so you can’t bring finishers + more combo fields.
The only weapon finishers outside of underwater are in Staff.

Suddenly the lapse in design and synergy comes to light doesn’t it?

Swiftness is not a burst movement skill it’s sustained just like Locust’s passive.
Dark Path has an on-hit requirement with a slow homing projectile which won’t work if it hits an enemy beyond 900 range, tell me of other teleports all these requirements.
The worm has a long casting time, if you cast in front of you within range you are already there by the time you can trigger the port.

OP: Please add to your list that approximately 50% of our utilities and elites cannot be used underwater (wells & minions). It’s a pretty major design shortcoming, IMO, that going underwater can nullify entire trait builds.

EDIT: on second thought, don’t add it to the OP. it would be our luck that ANet would read this thread and come away with the conclusion of, “Necros want more underwater fixes.”

Somoe.3621:

Quillixx.7034:

• The only profession without burst movement weapon attack or utility

• Necrotic Traversal (Summon Flesh Wurm):
  - Instant cast time and can be used during other actions
  - Breaks stuns
  - 1,200 range teleport

• Spectral Walk:
  - 30s Swiftness
  - Breaks stuns
  - Can teleport back to starting position within 8 seconds

• Dark Path (Death Shroud):
  - Homing missile
  - 900 range teleport to an enemy

• Foul Current (Trident):
  - 600 range leap/dash

• Locust Swarm (Warhorn):
  - 10s Swiftness

• Decaying Swarm (Soul Reaping):
  - 10s Swiftness when you hit 25% health

As far as finishers/fields, I don’t care to argue the point. If you don’t use wells, you lose access to basically of our fields out of water, and spectral wall is abysmal. Finishers/fields that are somewhat practical are putrid mark, bone minion (assuming they are positioned well), chilbains. The rest are highly situation in well builds/under water.

Giving up my worm port to do a blast finisher is also lol. Let me blow my one semi reliable escape skill to get a blast finisher and put it on a 45 second cooldown.

But more to the point and the quoted above, the poster was trying to point out that we have no gap closer. We have lots of swiftness available, certainly more than guardian/mesmer, but lack reliable gap closers of any description that are instant cast.

As was mentioned above:

1. Flesh worm does have a cast time, and has to be positioned right (and alive), making it awful for catching a runner or using as a general purpose teleport, because by the time your cast finishes, you have already run 300 units towards where you put the worm and can now cash in on your 45 second cooldown 900 unit teleport (hope you didnt get interrupted casting it!). Using it as a juke works fine, but its not instant, because you have to place the worm or pre-place it.

2. Spectral walk is a walk back skill, like the thief has. It is only a telport in the “juke” sense. It does nothing for a pursit and is even less useful against people that know you have that available only while you are green and glowing.

3. Dark path would be awesome if it wasn’t so easy to out run, failed because of terrain, didn’t have a cast time, and didn’t hit the first target in its path, rather than the target you actually selected.

The other skills you mentioned were under water or general speed. The point was there are no instant gap closers on the necro, making us the easiest class to run away from, but yet functionally designed as the attrition class which needs you to stay around long enough for us to kill you.

Kiriakulos.1690:

@Somoe.3621
…

1. Power scaling is not all that’s relevant to a class’ damage output. Necro’s “only have two good power scaling attacks” but also have access to every Condition in the game, which they excel at applying (especially to multiple targets). It’s also worth mentioning that Necro’s can easily and simultaneously stack Might on themselves (Reaper’s Might, Siphoned Power, Blood Is Power) and Vulnerability on multiple enemies (Unyielding Blast, Death Shiver, Well of Suffering).

“Guardian scepter is bad? Dunno never seen one use it. Might be I guess, good thing they have staff huh?”

2. Necromancer’s Staff #1 is “too slow” for you? Good thing Necromancers have Scepter and Axe, huh?

3.Trying to discount Wells because “Oh, they’re PBAoE unless traited” is a flimsy argument at best.

4. I never said anything about how balanced or well designed these skills were because that’s not what the OP was talking about. The OP said Necromancers had the fewest combo fields/finishers in the game, which they don’t. This is a FACT regardless of current skill balance.

Rennoko.5731:

…

1. My post had nothing to do with balance or how situational you think a skill is.

The point was there are no instant gap closers on the necro…

2. Necromancers do in fact have instant gap closers; Dark Path, Necrotic Traversal (potentially), and Spectral Walk (potentially).

…making us the easiest class to run away from…

3.
- One of the few classes to get a constant +25% MS Signet
- Multiple ways to increase MS (traits) or grant Swiftness (skills + traits)
- Multiple ways to teleport
- Multiple ways to inflict Chill, both single-target and AoE
- Multiple ways to remove Boons that increase mobility, like Swiftness and Vigor, both single-target and AoE.
- Multiple ways to inflict Immobilize.
- Multiple ways to inflict Cripple, both single-target and AoE.
- Multiple ways to hard CC, both single-target and AoE (Knock-down, Knock-back, Fear, Daze, Sink)
- Fear is the only hard CC that can have its duration increased by a stat, Condition Duration (not to mention the +50% duration trait)

I’m not necessarily saying Necromancers are the “inescapable-once-engaged attrition class” that Anet intended them to be but gap-closers aren’t the only thing that matters.

Somoe.3621:

cut

This guy clearly doesn’t play Necro, or probably he hasn’t played it enough.
There is no point to argue with him.

sorrow.2364:

Somoe.3621:

cut

This guy clearly doesn’t play Necro, or probably he hasn’t played it enough.
There is no point to argue with him.

Some people think Wiki makes them an expert.

XiL.4318:

sorrow.2364:

Somoe.3621:

cut

This guy clearly doesn’t play Necro, or probably he hasn’t played it enough.
There is no point to argue with him.

Some people think Wiki makes them an expert.

I’m not saying the Necromancer is perfectly balanced but yall are being complete drama queens about this. Conveniently ignoring what the class has going for it and exaggerating its weaknesses wont make buffs come any sooner. Oh, and pretending that everyone outside of the “Necromancer-Main Master Race” is too ignorant to comprehend your “plight” doesn’t help you either.

Please, get over yourselves.

Somoe.3621:

XiL.4318:

sorrow.2364:

Somoe.3621:

cut

This guy clearly doesn’t play Necro, or probably he hasn’t played it enough.
There is no point to argue with him.

Some people think Wiki makes them an expert.

I’m not saying the Necromancer is perfectly balanced but yall are being complete drama queens about this. Conveniently ignoring what the class has going for it and exaggerating its weaknesses wont make buffs come any sooner. Oh, and pretending that everyone outside of the “Necromancer-Main Master Race” is too ignorant to comprehend your “plight” doesn’t help you either.

Please, get over yourselves.

I wouldn’t waste your time with these trolls. They are obviously terrible at the class and are jealous of better players who can make the necro work.

Somoe.3621:

I’m not saying the Necromancer is perfectly balanced but yall are being complete drama queens about this. Conveniently ignoring what the class has going for it and exaggerating its weaknesses wont make buffs come any sooner. Oh, and pretending that everyone outside of the “Necromancer-Main Master Race” is too ignorant to comprehend your “plight” doesn’t help you either.

Please, get over yourselves.

When you have 4 distinct people pointing out how your arguments are bad you should re-evaluate what you’re saying before making an even bigger fool out of yourself.

On the other hand you do bring to light the biggest issue with this profession, everything seems much better in theory/paper doesn’t it?

NVM that 5 of the finishers are underwater or that most of the land blast/finishers compete for the same 3 utility slots, with 5 of the combos requiring a 20 point major trait for a measly 900 range, something incredibly important in WvW.

Or that teleporting back to where you were is in no way a gap-closer.

Or that we actually lack the 2 highest damage conditions in the game: confusion and burning.

Or that neither Axe nor scepter are 1200 range weapons… neither is staff actually, but it’s only a matter of time before that gets fixed like shroud-stomping.

My final point is that THIS profession has issues. WE play it and have been clamoring for bloody fixes and balance since week 1 of the game. THIS forum was the first to devote any effort into a bug list, creating a very well organized and cataloged one , which ANET has never actually bothered to make any feedback upon about what was a bug or working as intended. Saying that 2 of what are considered the better and more well off professions in the game have any serious flaws compared to Necromancer IN THIS kitten FORUM is akin to asking to create the Drama you end up saying that we should stop.

Guys, let me explain the argument to you.

Everyone is right in their own way.

Necro skills and design in general has some powerful skills, but they usually require more effort/skill or just some particular circumstances to work as well as other professions.

Simple. as. that.

Kiriakulos.1690:

Somoe.3621:

I’m not saying the Necromancer is perfectly balanced but yall are being complete drama queens about this. Conveniently ignoring what the class has going for it and exaggerating its weaknesses wont make buffs come any sooner. Oh, and pretending that everyone outside of the “Necromancer-Main Master Race” is too ignorant to comprehend your “plight” doesn’t help you either.

Please, get over yourselves.

When you have 4 distinct people pointing out how your arguments are bad you should re-evaluate what you’re saying before making an even bigger fool out of yourself.

No I think it just proves 4 out of those 5 players are bad.

What we need is less QQ and more L2P. Stop getting mad at everyone who has a grasp on the class and is successful with it. Just because you suck at necro doesnt make it a bad class, it just means you are bad at playing it. There are many other easier classes you might have more success with. I heard d/d eles are fotm, maybe play one of those and quit these repetitive “i suck at games its all anets fault” posts.

Somoe.3621:

1. Necro’s “only have two good power scaling attacks” but also have access to every Condition in the game, which they excel at applying (especially to multiple targets).

2. Necromancers do in fact have instant gap closers; Dark Path, Necrotic Traversal (potentially), and Spectral Walk (potentially).

1. Burning would like to have a word with you. You know, the highest damage per application condition in the game? Also, I can name at least 3 classes that can stack damaging conditions better than Necros, meaning “excel” is a bit strong of a word here. I think you meant that Necros are “average” at applying.

2. Neither Dark Path nor Necrotic Traversal are instant; both have a cast time. Spectral Walk is hardly a gap closer, unless your opponent is bad enough to run exactly where the long green trail of death starts.

I’ll agree some of the thoughts in the OP are exaggerated, but it does not help to exaggerate your counter arguments either.

Jknifer.6803:

Sorry man, I don’t have the energy to argue with a bunch of bads who haven’t figured out how to play a class because they are too busy theory crafting…

Psst. Well recharge rate is not a “theory”.

I thought you might like to know that.

Of course, anyone who was actually using the skills instead of being on the forums, theorycrafting would not be needing a reminder. It’s not exactly something that someone actually using the abilities in the game would tend to miss.

To the people who are arguing on this thread that we are all apparently bad and don’t know how to play necro -cough Jknifer and Somoe cough-, please teach us how to play. Tell us all the specifics of what you do, what gear you run, etc in another thread. Please, do tell. I want to learn to play this class from the pro’s who can call out everyone on this thread to be bad. Please teach me how every spell is supposed to be used and how we are all seeing it wrong.

Don’t have anything to contribute because you don’t feel like it? You sure you don’t wanna tell us? Get out then. You are bringing needless rage and flame into a thread that wants to get attention so that the Necro’s issues are fixed. Why are you guys even complaining in the first place? If you are this good with the class, buffs will help you even more. Some of the stuff you say make me even wonder if you play necro’s, especially when you mention that we have instant teleports. Dark path isn’t an instant gap closer if we need a target and it actually needs to land.

That said, i agree with most of what this thread has talked about. Necro’s on a whole need a serious examination. Unfortunately we were promised love 4 months before the game released, still have yet to seen much love since then.

Manticore Five.9867:

Jknifer.6803:

Sorry man, I don’t have the energy to argue with a bunch of bads who haven’t figured out how to play a class because they are too busy theory crafting…

Psst. Well recharge rate is not a “theory”.

I thought you might like to know that.

Of course, anyone who was actually using the skills instead of being on the forums, theorycrafting would not be needing a reminder. It’s not exactly something that someone actually using the abilities in the game would tend to miss.

I’m not really sure what you are trying to say here.

The necromancer in the hands of a skilled player is a very durable and powerful class. You and your band of QQers are not skilled players. Rather than whining on the forums about the class why don’t you just play something easier.

Zelkovan.2630:

To the people who are arguing on this thread that we are all apparently bad and don’t know how to play necro -cough Jknifer and Somoe cough-, please teach us how to play. Tell us all the specifics of what you do, what gear you run, etc in another thread. Please, do tell. I want to learn to play this class from the pro’s who can call out everyone on this thread to be bad. Please teach me how every spell is supposed to be used and how we are all seeing it wrong.

Don’t have anything to contribute because you don’t feel like it? You sure you don’t wanna tell us? Get out then. You are bringing needless rage and flame into a thread that wants to get attention so that the Necro’s issues are fixed. Why are you guys even complaining in the first place? If you are this good with the class, buffs will help you even more. Some of the stuff you say make me even wonder if you play necro’s, especially when you mention that we have instant teleports. Dark path isn’t an instant gap closer if we need a target and it actually needs to land.

That said, i agree with most of what this thread has talked about. Necro’s on a whole need a serious examination. Unfortunately we were promised love 4 months before the game released, still have yet to seen much love since then.

There is a sticky which list the necro bugs etc. That is a useful thread.

This thread is in no way helpful, it’s just a bunch of QQ so guys who are bad can all high five each other and celebrate each others hopelessness and blame it on the class, meanwhile shooting down anyone who disagrees with you.

I could show my build and gear and stats and strats but good players figure these things out themselves and tailor it to their play-style or their teams strategy. What works for me and my guild probably won’t work for you.

Somoe.3621:

How can people complain about Necro’s Staff #1 when Guardian’s Scepter #1 is so much worse? Sure Necrotic Grasp’s projectile is slow but it also hits EVERYTHING in a line, gives Life Force for each enemy it hits, and has a 20% chance to act as a Projectile Finisher. Necro’s Staff can at least deal damage to moving targets thanks to Marks, unlike Guardian’s Scepter with Smite.

Sounds like you’re in the wrong forum.

Guardian scepter, since you wish to compare, fires 3x faster, and is just shy of being 3x the DPS. And, it has an immobilize to compliment it’s ground target Scepter 2. The fact that you bring up moving targets and Necro staff, is however, the biggest punchline I read from your post.

In close range (0-600), most ranged weapons have no problem landing. However, in the medium range (601-900), the staff begins to fail due to projectile speed. Any target in the 601-900 range with sprint (even with ‘in combat’ speed reduction) can out run a staff projectile when running away from the necro. Any side to side movement in this range will cause upwards of 1/3rd of the Staff 1 attacks to miss. Factor in long range (901-1200) and your attacks can be out ranged by anyone running away ‘in combat’ without sprint. More to the point, any type of fighting that occurs in this range with an opponent that moves around, will inadvertently avoid over 1/2 the Staff 1 attacks, without having to dodge.

Somoe.3621:

Just flat out wrong/overly dramatic.

Which profession can the necro out DPS? Is this where you bring up a power “well” build, show 5 seconds of good dmg, and then I respond with footage of the next 40s of the weakest damage in the game? I would really like to know which profession has less DPS than the necro.

Somoe.3621:

Necro’s have 3 more finisher abilities and 2 more types of combo fields.
Necro’s have 2 more finisher abilities, 2 more field abilities, and 2 more types of fields.

You list them out, but you don’t take the time to understand. Every combo field is disabled in water, except 1. The one that does work in water, moves the character along and out of the combo field, and doesn’t actually work on itself. The necro has no self combos in water. Adding all of those finishers to the underwater weapons back in Dec. was just shy of an April’s Fools prank, but I guess it was good enough to fool you.

I guess to clarify, I would alter my statement to be, “The profession with the lowest combo field participation in the game.”

Somoe.3621:

Necromancers are also the only profession that can send all of their conditions (or hindrances) to an enemy. Hmm, I wonder why.

Only condition builds are able to handle this mechanic fluidly, and the mechanic itself is fluff instead of practical. The end result are abilities that hinder ourselves with no real practical gain. It also shows how each of the necro’s utility skills are too focused on specific builds. Wells in a non-well build, what? Minions in a non-minion build, say it ain’t so? Necro utilities aren’t choices. They are predetermined by the build.. And if you do pick something different, you actually hurt your own capacity.

Somoe.3621:

• Necrotic Traversal
• Spectral Walk
• Dark Path
• Foul Current
• Locust Swarm
• Decaying Swarm

The fact that you listed swiftness as a “burst movement” ability, is somewhat embarrassing. I honestly shook my head, with a blank look on my face, after reading that.

The whole point of having a burst movement ability is to fulfill the need to; 1. chase down other players, or 2. exit from combat with relative reliability in getting away.

Necrotic Traversal has a 1.5s cast time. If you’re chasing after someone (or running away), with swiftness active, and cast it, you can teleport a massive 200-250 units by the time the teleport becomes active.

Spectral Walk, by default, doesn’t provide any means of chasing someone down, obviously. And when running away, that means you can only go backwards…. to where the opponents are that are going to kill you? Get the picture? Starting to see the reoccurring theme here?

Dark Path… not particularly useful after all other professions have used their burst movement to leave 900 cast range. And rarely is there a perfect setup to use it on a critter/mob while running away. And once again suffers, similar to Necrotic Traversal, due to cast time/travel time resulting in the same lack luster end travel distance of 200-250 units of actual porting when running in a direct line.

All in all, your dissection here, shows a complete lack of actual experience.

I am with Jknifer and Somoe, less QQ – L2P. Necro is a very difficult class to master and not your typical spam spam spam 2 skills ftw.

If we are talking about insta-spammage winnage, then yes, necro is outperformed by many (if not all) other classes aside from engineer. To be good in necro means you have to utilise every kittening thing in your arsenal, a surprise huh?

@Jknifer.6803

All in all, your posts resemble someone that thinks they are good… but in point of fact, you’re one that never truly has the skill, or comprehension required to reach the full potential of a given class in any mmo. This leaves you disillusioned with the feeling of being good, or even great.. when in comparison your contribution is furthest from.

This thread was created to show discrepancies in class balance at the design level. Give 7 out of 8 classes burst movement abilities for example… why not all 8? Give 7 out of 8 classes vigor, but 1 doesn’t get it? See the theme? The shortcomings are a list of design pitfalls, and not open to interpretation or opinion, as you seem think they are. It’s simply stating a fact.

I, like many players here, are passionate about the necro. I have multiple other 80s, yet I keep returning to the necro, wanting it to be better. Players here have pushed the necro to the design limits, and then compare their results to what they can accomplish on other classes are disheartened to identify that the necro isn’t up to par in a lot of regards.

In your own haste to sound off your self proclaimed greatness to us all, you’ve mistaken this thread as a QQ post, when it isn’t. The tone of this post is to objectively list out areas where the necro is the only class to fall short of core features/abilities given to all other classes. While a few commentators here have poured a hint of their frustration with some of these specific items into their posts, it was still bad-form of you to post needless, and repeated inflammatory comments, backed by hollow insults and no real content that proves yourself.

To that end, I would simply ask you to quit posting in my thread, and take your opinions elsewhere, or PM. Obviously, you are free to do as you will (within limits), but to continue to post here would simply prove my summary of you as an individual to be spot on. No offense, I just find nothing of what you posted to be of any value in this discussion, outside of being disruptive.

Best of luck to you and your future.

I don’t want to barge in on an argument, but this thread is of no value at all beyond QQing, which I also agreed with what Jknifer has said. Nothing you guys have posted are of any value at all too, which is ironic coz that’s what you shot Jknifer with in the above post.

Your above post also, to quote you, "post needless … comments, backed by hollow insults (implying he/she is not skillful), and no real content that proves yourself (again, by saying he/she lacks the comprehension required).

Sorry, but you sir, are most ironic.

abelooi.9156:

I am with Jknifer and Somoe, less QQ – L2P. Necro is a very difficult class to master and not your typical spam spam spam 2 skills ftw.
If we are talking about insta-spammage winnage, then yes, necro is outperformed by many (if not all) other classes aside from engineer…

I don’t want to barge in on an argument, but this thread is of no value at all beyond QQing, which I also agreed with what Jknifer has said. Nothing you guys have posted are of any value at all too, which is ironic coz that’s what you shot Jknifer with in the above post.

Your above post also, to quote you, "post needless … comments, backed by hollow insults (implying he/she is not skillful), and no real content that proves yourself (again, by saying he/she lacks the comprehension required).

Sorry, but you sir, are most ironic.

You do realize that the “difficult to master” comment you are parroting, is a running joke on the necro forum due to its satire, right? GW2 classes in general are very linear, and none of them are difficult to master, especially when pared up against some other MMOs.

I guess to you, someone knowing the class mechanics, builds, and comparison of how all 8 classes stack up against one another is of no value? Pointing out the discrepancy of where the necro is falling short through actual experience, is of no value? In truth, you have already made a point that you lack that knowledge. A quick skimming of your other posts on the forums here, clearly indicates you only have the necro 80, and only “lowbie alts”, and you “got bored of them”, etc, etc…

You demonstrate little to no experience, but condemn others that have that experience because you have a need to be argumentative; why? Irony is making posts like this in the ACP1 solo clear thread. “i’d really love to see people try this with necro. REALLY. Those who claimed skill of a player offset the class. Have fun burrowing. ^^” but in this post, all other necro players here are QQing and lack skill…

But the best quote of all is your simplistic, “If we are talking about insta-spammage winnage, then yes, necro is outperformed by many (if not all) other classes aside from engineer”

Thank you for proving my point.

I’m honored you go so far as to check and quote me thanks! But, WHAT? all classes are supposed to be played exactly the same? Like just because warrior and elementalist can solo a dungeon everyone should be able to! NOT FAIR!

So if wanting to be the same as other classes as in insta-spammage, is not QQing, then I do not know what is. Thanks for disproving yourself but really, who’s to say who has much/ or more experience than others?

That’s what I meant by you being ironic. Coz you called someone out, and now you ain’t taking kitten from people calling you out. This is really a thread of QQing, whether you like it or not. It has zero contribution towards how to better play a necro. Nothing in your first post is constructive, it’s merely “the only profession that bla bla bla…”.

How about no? Why can’t people just accept the way it is, it’s kittening Anet’s game and if you don’t like it you can just quit and not whine. For every player who loves to hate the game there is one who loves playing it for what it is.

Never said all classes should be able to solo AC, merely pointing out you’re quick to nay say against the necro when it’s convenient for you.

And, you’ll find no posts about wanting to instant spam kill people with the necro, those were your words. The point of fact is that other classes can do it, and little to no action has taking place to curb that gameplay.

The current meta of the game is impacting all aspects. Watching guild groups switch to flavor of the month classes due to ANets lack of balance changes. Ran into an SOS guild group in T1 WvW with 8 D/D Eles, 4 Staff Eles, and 7 Shout Guards.. and that is the class make of of their group. The ongoing lack of class updates is taking the game into a downward spiral. Not just for the necro, but for the community as well.

For looking over your posts, it’s just me being me.. thorough. I don’t tend to judge people by a very small subset of posts in a single thread. But your posts were more liken to a vein attempt to pass gibberish off as English, and an overall blind need to defend the integrity of the necro class, even when in the wrong. Which is why I understand your need to lash out at other posters here. How dare anyone talk down your beloved necro. In all honestly it doesn’t bother me. I do however, like to keep things interesting and poke back from time to time.

Call me ironic, or whatever else you prefer, it doesn’t change the validity of the OP or follow up comments in this thread. Say it’s QQ, attempt to vaguely address and dismiss it, lash out at other posters… it doesn’t make it incorrect.

What I noticed first after swapping from a mesmer to a necro:

1) Almost >everything< is cast really slowly (bar for wells, staff n3 and corrupt boon), so you can see people simply kite away from your sluggish grasps, or run out of the area you wanted to drop your wand or dagger offhand aoe in (or randomly change their course of running hence screwing those 1 h casts), or dodge it because it takes a gozzilion years before the cast is finally finished. It feels as if someone casted faintheartedness on the nec, and that it’s affecting the speed of the projectiles too, not only the attack speed (good thing the wand compensates for that excuse of a staff attack). To make a long story short, long casts will only really work on chilled targets, granted they don’t feel like dodging. But the devs intended those things to be dodgeable to start with…I suppose?

A 3/4 s cast (not to mention the rest) feels so incredibly long in this game, whilst on GW, it feels really fast (Corrupt enchantment being a prime example of that odd difference). How on Earth did they manage to do that. Replacing GW cast time bar with GW2 character hand movements wasn’t the best of ideas, I’d say. It feels so kitten sluggish.

2) No genuine ‘oh-shiat skills’ (ala blink/phase retreat/mist form type of oh-shiat button)
- DS is extremely situational, for it must be charged prior to the fight for it to be of any real merit, leaving necros (a condi one, at least) at a major disadvantage start of a match vs just about anything that can chunk out a lot of damage and/or cc, especially stuns, snares and knockbacks/downs.
- wurm must be cast before engaging in a fight, and cannot be used mid-fight anymore, unless you wish to give your opponent(s) 3 seconds of laugh time. Having said that, a well-placed precasted wurm can turn the tides vs burst characters (especially mesmers). If you are, however, taken by surprise, you’re completely screwed without DS and/or plague on recharge.

- psignet has a lacklustre recharge of 60 seconds and renders your main team support (condition-control-wise) useless for a full minute without the trait
- spectral armor has an even more lacklustre recharge of 90 seconds (wtf)

3) Only one real (read: r e l i a b l e) snare, and that is staff n3, which happens to be also the main (only) combo field for staff n4, given you are running a condimancer and hence don’t use wells.
I dare you guess why it’s the only reliable snare a nec has. Correct, it is the big aoe (which requires a major trait, mind you) and the…wait for it….exactly! The 1/4 cast time and 1200 range. Pity the skill has multiple completely different roles rolled into one (combo field and offensive/defensive snare), leaving one wanting when you already used it for one purpose, but would need it for the other too.

4) Only one real combo finisher, and that is staff n4. Utilities are usually filled with necro staple skills such as epidemic, corrupt and psignet. If you aren’t going for condition control and overload, you’re better off on other professions, really. As a matter of fact, I can list numerous classes which can excell just as much, if not more at at least one of the two (bunker rangers at cond removal, attrition thieves at cond removal and cond applying, guardians at removal, party support and significant burning spam, eles at removal and party support, and so on).
Moreover, the main intention of a wurm is to function as an oh-shiat skill, but only in situations you’ve prepared yourself for beforehand. Reading how one should use it as a finisher is quite entertaining, and at the same time saddening, to read.
Often enough, people don’t even run corrupt and psignet, but rather take the aoe rez and wurm. Good for tournament play, I suppose (but I’d never want to relinquish corrupt), but if that necro is focused and stun locked, only DS or plague form will save him. Having to rely on a 3 min re elite to function as an oh-kitten button sounds somewhat wrong to me.

Having said that, I still like the class. But it feels so needlessly lacklustre in a lot of areas (perhaps the devs thought DS is the answer to everything, and just stopped bothering after that).

Last but not least, why are people listing >underwater< skills to support their arguments? I fail to see how that makes any point whatsoever; if anything, it proves the points you’re arguing against.

Don’t get me wrong – I’m an average necro still, and roughly 70% of my play time was spent on mesmer. But it doesn’t take an expert to notice the obvious.

All classes should be able to perform the same across the board.

All classes should have a spike damage glass cannon /w cooldowns

All classes should have a heavy defense damage soak/avoid/convert/etc…

All classes should have trait/weapon synergy

All classes should should be able to fill every role equally depending on build, gear, and player skill.

Necro cannot spike, Necro cannot defend, Necro has broken weapon synergy, broken traits, and is excessively complicated to master because of counter-intuitive trait/skill synergy.

Necro can Hybrid. That is all Necro can do. And to do that effectively you need to develop skills that the game does not encourage you to develop. This is the problem. Necro is far harder to “LEARN2PLAY” than any other class because the traits and weapons and often the gear options are counter intuitive. They don’t make sense to someone who has never played an MMO before.

I can run Necro effectively with no traits assigned and no pants. No pants.

But the vast majority of players do not have a decade of experience with broken MMO mechanics guiding them through the counter intuitive nightmare that is learning to play Necro in Thief Wars 2.

/thread

I forgot to mention necs actually do have an oh-shiat skill to use under stun/knockback/knockdown which doesn’t have an insane cooldown.
Yes, it’s no other than our mighty DS n3 skill (its underwater counterpart is trash though). However, there’s a catch to that one – if necs are forced to use if defensively (proactively even, if you feel a spike incoming), how then are they supposed to use it offensively (on heals, rezzes, long cast times, and whatnot). I normally grab the sr major trait for lower DS skill recharge only because of the fear, it’s one of the more reliable, and also one of the more useful necro skills. Guess why.
Yes! It is an instant cast without a slow motion projectile chasing after the target, holy shiat.
Oh but there’s a catch to it. It’s a DS skill. Read above for clarification.

Edit: @XiL, the reason why you can run a nec effectively without pants must be because everyone is busy staring at that pantless part. What a sly distraction, tsk tsk.

Don’t hate. Necro gotta got eat too. Sometimes you gotta take yer pants off to put some food on the table. There’s no shame in that.

Quillixx.7034:

But your posts were more liken to a vein attempt to pass gibberish off as English…

Boy oh boy, so you come to forums to teach English, or to learn? I certainly don’t; I’m only here for the lovely banter and my… sorry for being such a disappointment. Not everyone’s first language is English, and perhaps those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

Cheers!

XiL.4318:

All classes should be able to perform the same across the board.

All classes should have a spike damage glass cannon /w cooldowns

All classes should have a heavy defense damage soak/avoid/convert/etc…

All classes should have trait/weapon synergy

All classes should should be able to fill every role equally depending on build, gear, and player skill.

Necro cannot spike, Necro cannot defend, Necro has broken weapon synergy, broken traits, and is excessively complicated to master because of counter-intuitive trait/skill synergy.

Necro can Hybrid. That is all Necro can do. And to do that effectively you need to develop skills that the game does not encourage you to develop. This is the problem. Necro is far harder to “LEARN2PLAY” than any other class because the traits and weapons and often the gear options are counter intuitive. They don’t make sense to someone who has never played an MMO before.

I can run Necro effectively with no traits assigned and no pants. No pants.

But the vast majority of players do not have a decade of experience with broken MMO mechanics guiding them through the counter intuitive nightmare that is learning to play Necro in Thief Wars 2.

/thread

Have to say, LOVE this. +

I just laught at people coming here and saying that Necros are fine and all the people complaining must L2P.

I bet that most people who come here to say that Necro is fine are most likely PvE players or people who played Necro ~40h and claim to be good enough to get the right to say other people L2P.

There is no rational way to consider the Necro fine. The way it is designed and also the way that design is implemented in the class is flat out wrong.

Just look at what Necro is supposed to be:

The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health.

So, according to what JS said, do you think that it is a good class design and do you also think that Necro are good at what they are supposed to be good at?
Do you feel you have multiple way to win attrition fights? Do you feel that enemies can’t run away from you? Do you think that you are able to effectively combine condition and raw damage?
Do you think that the huge health pool is enough to compesante the complete lack of damage reductions and escapes? And do you think you are better than other professions into what we are supposed to be the best?

If all the answers at all the previous questions are “yes”, than you’d probably play the Necro more.

Somoe.3621:

Kiriakulos.1690:

@Somoe.3621
…

1. Power scaling is not all that’s relevant to a class’ damage output. Necro’s “only have two good power scaling attacks” but also have access to every Condition in the game, which they excel at applying (especially to multiple targets). It’s also worth mentioning that Necro’s can easily and simultaneously stack Might on themselves (Reaper’s Might, Siphoned Power, Blood Is Power) and Vulnerability on multiple enemies (Unyielding Blast, Death Shiver, Well of Suffering).

“Guardian scepter is bad? Dunno never seen one use it. Might be I guess, good thing they have staff huh?”

2. Necromancer’s Staff #1 is “too slow” for you? Good thing Necromancers have Scepter and Axe, huh?

3.Trying to discount Wells because “Oh, they’re PBAoE unless traited” is a flimsy argument at best.

4. I never said anything about how balanced or well designed these skills were because that’s not what the OP was talking about. The OP said Necromancers had the fewest combo fields/finishers in the game, which they don’t. This is a FACT regardless of current skill balance.

Rennoko.5731:

…

1. My post had nothing to do with balance or how situational you think a skill is.

The point was there are no instant gap closers on the necro…

2. Necromancers do in fact have instant gap closers; Dark Path, Necrotic Traversal (potentially), and Spectral Walk (potentially).

…making us the easiest class to run away from…

3.
- One of the few classes to get a constant +25% MS Signet
- Multiple ways to increase MS (traits) or grant Swiftness (skills + traits)
- Multiple ways to teleport
- Multiple ways to inflict Chill, both single-target and AoE
- Multiple ways to remove Boons that increase mobility, like Swiftness and Vigor, both single-target and AoE.
- Multiple ways to inflict Immobilize.
- Multiple ways to inflict Cripple, both single-target and AoE.
- Multiple ways to hard CC, both single-target and AoE (Knock-down, Knock-back, Fear, Daze, Sink)
- Fear is the only hard CC that can have its duration increased by a stat, Condition Duration (not to mention the +50% duration trait)

I’m not necessarily saying Necromancers are the “inescapable-once-engaged attrition class” that Anet intended them to be but gap-closers aren’t the only thing that matters.

Im not even going to comment on all the points but here are some doozies.

We dont have all conditions, in fact we lack 2 of the most powerful: burn and confusion.

Gap closers: lets see you keep up with a thief, ele, warrior, mesmer(in combat) or pretty much any class tbh

CC: lol compared to anyone
fear: shortest duration in the game
knock down: golem charge is pretty much random direction
daze: not hard CC, target can still move
cripple: average
sink: really?

Combos: not that few blast finishers but when you have skill that only do that it pretty much fail, using staff 4 as finisher limits your already pretty crappy removal
fields: lol we have the crappiest fields, id trade either fire or water for everything we have atm

I hate it when people use the letters “L2P”, it makes you sound like a fool, and serves only to enrage sensitive people on the forums who consider it a shot at there personal manhood. Want to drop a thread in the trash heap? Start your post with L2P.

The threat started out as a discussion of the weaknesses of the Necromancer. While I do not agree with the somewhat “whine” worthy tone of the OP, it opens up a discussion for those of us that like the class and want to discuss those short comings to see if we can rationalize them, possibly provide some interesting solutions/ideas.

I do not agree with the majority of the starting post, because it is over dramatic and refers to all our weaknesses and none of our strengths. Instead of taking it upon yourself to descend on the post and call everyone providing feedback a noob, try discussing some of your pro strategies that you use to overcome these weaknesses.

Many players do fine with Necro, despite the weaknesses. Just above a great post was made comparing the reason why Mesmer works and “feels” so much better than the Necro. Fluidity of gameplay is not something to be laughed at, and having any and all of your big hit spells interruptible, while simulataneously lacking any easy stability options is most certainly a shortcoming.

3/4 of a second feels horribly long. Ever use chilbains? It casts in 1/4 of a second and feels great…. imagine what the class would be like if all the skills cast that fast (ala underwater combat)? How about if the scept 2 and dagger 5 skills actually hit when their cast times finished instead of 1/2-1 second later?

The argument from Anet has always been that cast times reflect relative power of a skill. Since staff 5 on a mesmer is pretty much better in every possible way than dagger 5 on a necro, it should have a cast time and a delay too right? no… it doesn’t.

I have watched many a necro video and have seen necros own, and I myself have won some pretty epic 1v1 fights, but the fact remains the Necro class is horribly underplayed and that cannot be ignored. Skill is hardly a reasonable excuse. People flock to hard classes because they want to be known as the player that mastered the difficult class. People do not flock to classes that have glaring weaknesses and lack of fluid gameplay.

Kiriakulos.1690:

When you have 4 distinct people pointing out how your arguments are bad you should re-evaluate what you’re saying before making an even bigger fool out of yourself.

I’m sorry but this means nothing, especially since I’m posting in a QQ thread.

Kiriakulos.1690:

NVM that 5 of the finishers are underwater or that most of the land blast/finishers compete for the same 3 utility slots, with 5 of the combos requiring a 20 point major trait for a measly 900 range, something incredibly important in WvW.

Or that teleporting back to where you were is in no way a gap-closer.

Quillixx.7034:

You list them out, but you don’t take the time to understand. Every combo field is disabled in water, except 1. The one that does work in water, moves the character along and out of the combo field, and doesn’t actually work on itself. The necro has no self combos in water. Adding all of those finishers to the underwater weapons back in Dec. was just shy of an April’s Fools prank, but I guess it was good enough to fool you.

Quillixx.7034:

The whole point of having a burst movement ability is to fulfill the need to; 1. chase down other players, or 2. exit from combat with relative reliability in getting away.

Necrotic Traversal has a 1.5s cast time. If you’re chasing after someone (or running away), with swiftness active, and cast it, you can teleport a massive 200-250 units by the time the teleport becomes active.

Spectral Walk, by default, doesn’t provide any means of chasing someone down, obviously. And when running away, that means you can only go backwards…. to where the opponents are that are going to kill you? Get the picture? Starting to see the reoccurring theme here?

Dark Path… not particularly useful after all other professions have used their burst movement to leave 900 cast range. And rarely is there a perfect setup to use it on a critter/mob while running away. And once again suffers, similar to Necrotic Traversal, due to cast time/travel time resulting in the same lack luster end travel distance of 200-250 units of actual porting when running in a direct line.

Hepan.2709:

Gap closers: lets see you keep up with a thief, ele, warrior, mesmer(in combat) or pretty much any class tbh

Combos: not that few blast finishers but when you have skill that only do that it pretty much fail, using staff 4 as finisher limits your already pretty crappy removal
fields: lol we have the crappiest fields, id trade either fire or water for everything we have atm

When did I ever say ANYTHING about the balance or practicality of these abilities? The OP didn’t say Necro’s burst movement was too situational or unreliable, he said they didn’t have any. The OP didn’t say Necro’s finishers and combo fields were too limited or difficult to use together, he said they had fewer than any other class. He made outlandish, generalized statements about things the Necromancer lacked and all I intended to do was point out that these statements are false. This has nothing to do with balance.

Lets imagine there’s a class with only one teleport ability. This ability has a 2 year cooldown, requires 1000 gems to use, can only be used during a full moon, and has a 98% chance to fail and delete your character. If you said “This class has no burst movement” you would be wrong.

Kiriakulos.1690:

My final point is that THIS profession has issues. WE play it and have been clamoring for bloody fixes and balance since week 1 of the game. THIS forum was the first to devote any effort into a bug list, creating a very well organized and cataloged one , which ANET has never actually bothered to make any feedback upon about what was a bug or working as intended. Saying that 2 of what are considered the better and more well off professions in the game have any serious flaws compared to Necromancer IN THIS kitten FORUM is akin to asking to create the Drama you end up saying that we should stop.

Like I said in my previous post, exaggerating weaknesses and discounting strengths doesn’t help anyone. I compared Necromancer’s Staff to Guardian’s Scepter because of my own personal experiences, not to say “OMAGAWD GURDIAN IS WURSE OFF THAN NECRO, QQ”. I compared Necromancer finishers/combo fields to Guardian and Mesmer finishers/combo fields for the same reason.
(INB4 “lol you only have experience with FotM classes”)

Kiriakulos.1690:

Or that we actually lack the 2 highest damage conditions in the game: confusion and burning.

BondageBill.4021:

1. Burning would like to have a word with you. You know, the highest damage per application condition in the game?

Hepan.2709:

We dont have all conditions, in fact we lack 2 of the most powerful: burn and confusion.

Corrupt Boon and Well of Corruption both convert;
- Aegis into Burning
- Retaliation into Confusion

Keep in mind that Burning also has a very short base duration, doesn’t stack, and many abilities that inflict it do nothing else.

Hepan.2709:

CC: lol compared to anyone
fear: shortest duration in the game
knock down: golem charge is pretty much random direction
daze: not hard CC, target can still move
cripple: average
sink: really?

CC: I never claimed having CC was a unique trait of the Necromancer.

Fear: You’re conveniently ignoring that Necro’s also have multiple abilities that Fear and its duration can be increased with Condition Duration.

Knock-Down: You’re conveniently ignoring that it’s a long range AoE down a line and the Golem uses it on your target (unless there are AI issues on the charge that I’m not aware of).

Daze: I consider not being able to use any abilities (since “auto-attacks” are abilities in GW2) worthy of being called a “Hard CC” but to each their own. You’re conveniently ignoring that it’s a fairly wide cone AoE.

Cripple: You’re conveniently discounting its strengths to prove your point.

Sink: You’re conveniently discounting its strengths like it doesn’t even count as a hard CC.

Quillixx.7034:

Guardian scepter, since you wish to compare, fires 3x faster, and is just shy of being 3x the DPS. And, it has an immobilize to compliment it’s ground target Scepter 2. The fact that you bring up moving targets and Necro staff, is however, the biggest punchline I read from your post.

- Staff’s attack rate isn’t the only thing that’s relevant; the weapon also causes condition damage, all of its abilities hit multiple targets, and it’s capable of quickly charging up Life Force.
- Just to compare, Staff has an AoE Chill and AoE Fear to compliment its slow projectile speed.
- Just to compare, Marks deal their full damage to a target if it hits them once while Smite (Guardian Scepter #2) only deals its full damage to targets that stand in it for the full duration.

Quillixx.7034:

In close range (0-600), most ranged weapons have no problem landing. However, in the medium range (601-900), the staff begins to fail due to projectile speed. Any target in the 601-900 range with sprint (even with ‘in combat’ speed reduction) can out run a staff projectile when running away from the necro. Any side to side movement in this range will cause upwards of 1/3rd of the Staff 1 attacks to miss. Factor in long range (901-1200) and your attacks can be out ranged by anyone running away ‘in combat’ without sprint. More to the point, any type of fighting that occurs in this range with an opponent that moves around, will inadvertently avoid over 1/2 the Staff 1 attacks, without having to dodge.

All of this is true for Guardian’s Scepter #1 as well.

Quillixx.7034:

Only condition builds are able to handle this mechanic fluidly, and the mechanic itself is fluff instead of practical. The end result are abilities that hinder ourselves with no real practical gain. It also shows how each of the necro’s utility skills are too focused on specific builds. Wells in a non-well build, what? Minions in a non-minion build, say it ain’t so? Necro utilities aren’t choices. They are predetermined by the build.. And if you do pick something different, you actually hurt your own capacity.

Again, my post was not about balance or practicality. I just wanted to point out that there’s a reason Necromancers are the only class that can inflict Conditions on themselves. Anet didn’t design Corruptions just to “punish” Necromancers for using their utilities.

Zelkovan.2630:

To the people who are arguing on this thread that we are all apparently bad and don’t know how to play necro -cough Jknifer and Somoe cough-, please teach us how to play.

When did I ever say or even imply that everyone in this thread was bad and doesn’t know know how to play? Please don’t put words in my mouth or assume I feel the same as Jknifer just because he agreed with my post.

To me necro is not bad and not good, is halfway as it is halfway the concept of necro be an attrition class.
We should be an attrition class then I can understand the lack of fast escape mechanism but don’t undestand the absence of block or invulnerability(spectral armor could become something like elementalist’s mist form, because 90 sec cd for 6 sec protection is pretty laughable); the access to stability only with a grandmaster trait; why our vampiric trait heal us 25-50 hp while enemies hit us for more than 1k of autoattack? Sure we’ve got lots of hp, yes 2 hp bar, but no armor, why can’t we have a decent self-sustaining heal with vampiric be part of our tankyness to actually live enough to do our low damage.
Why there’s a bleed cap on target shared with all player attacking the same target(instead of a personal stack like in many other mmo, I mean every player may have X bleed stack on the target) reducing the attrition strategy, also why don’t we have confusion, I agree burn is not much necro-like, we’re not warlock summoning hell beast we flirt with death itself, in this scenario confusion is acceptable even in a role-play point of view, some mind-numbing skill that kill enemy’s brain cell(and we had some “punishing skill” in gw1).
And also PvE wise we are not that bad…on trash, epidemic can do lot’s of damage in aoe, well are useful and can give 3 sec of protection to ally if traited, but on boss weakness and vulnerability has their duration halved, blind is a 10% chance and most of bosses are immune to fear, it let a condionmancer with just his bleed/poison stack and the poor damage of scepter#1.
It would be nice something that allow condition player to feel less useless at destroy object, you forgot that staff’s marks won’t activate on object.
Minion need a serious fix/rework, reanimator trait included.

In short if we have to fight war by attrition (low/slow damage) without escape tool, we need more survival tool.

To be honest, calling spectral wall and the boon flipping skills (Corruption well and Corruption Boon) access to confusion and burning is really a stretch. If your target doesn’t use those boons, or have access to them, you cannot cause burning, and the chances of successfully stacking even one confusion on the target is 20%, through spectral wall, with staff 1. That would be the very definition of exceptionally situational.

I get that people are technically correct in saying that necros can apply those effects, but I don’t think its accurate to say we have access to them under any normal circumstances.

Also we do not have access to multiple fears, unless you run staff or trait for reapers protection. If you choose to play without staff you get one fear on a 20 second cooldown that can last a max of 2 seconds with 100% duration. 100% duration requires a pretty big sacrifice in food/runes/traits, and is not practical in spvp.

Don’t get caught doing the opposite of the OP and taking only the best possible scenario for every build and calling it the “norm”.

Rennoko.5731:

To be honest, calling spectral wall and the boon flipping skills (Corruption well and Corruption Boon) access to confusion and burning is really a stretch. If your target doesn’t use those boons, or have access to them, you cannot cause burning, and the chances of successfully stacking even one confusion on the target is 20%, through spectral wall, with staff 1. That would be the very definition of exceptionally situational.

I get that people are technically correct in saying that necros can apply those effects, but I don’t think its accurate to say we have access to them under any normal circumstances.

Also we do not have access to multiple fears, unless you run staff or trait for reapers protection. If you choose to play without staff you get one fear on a 20 second cooldown that can last a max of 2 seconds with 100% duration. 100% duration requires a pretty big sacrifice in food/runes/traits, and is not practical in spvp.

Don’t get caught doing the opposite of the OP and taking only the best possible scenario for every build and calling it the “norm”.

I never called using these skills in every/any build “the norm”, I’m simply pointing out that Necromancers do in fact have them. Also, “we don’t have access to multiple fears if we don’t take multiple fears” isn’t a very good argument.

Some points I’d like to bring up:
Necro “glass cannon” from what I’ve seen is more based off of consistent DPS rather than burst. While this does not appeal to everyone, remember that even a full damage spec necro has more hp than, say, a glass cannon thief or ele. The difference is that the eles and thieves have more escape mechanisms that necros lack.

Spectral walk is not only used for teleport juking. 30+ seconds of swiftness is oftentimes enough in itself to outrun specs without perma-swiftness.

To those that question Necro’s survivability, have you tried running a tank build, or at least a build with more toughness or vit? While a guardian is more of a support tank with a lot of boons/heals-to-allies skills, a necro makes for a very good soloer that is extremely difficult to bring down with a lot of blinds and godly amounts of hp (my base is 33k). Think of Spectral Walk/Armor as heals for your DS. Right now I’m also using Runes of the Forge which, paired with the soul reaping master trait Last Gasp, gives me 21 secs of protection at 50% every 60 seconds in addition to healing my DS due to the spectral armor. Believe me, it adds up to a lot of survivability. Can I kill things as fast as a thief/warrior/ele? Of course not. Do I enjoy hitting 150s on mobs? Not really… But I don’t die to three hits like glass cannons and have many methods of very much prolonging a fight.

Is necro perfect? Far from. Does everyone that’s complaining just need to L2P? Not at all. But all the same, there are a lot of players out there that have found success running all kinds of builds. Whining about how your class/build is broken is not going to cause ANet to magically swoop in with a “Hello unhappy client, how can we change to game to suit you?” I mean, that would be awesome, but still…

Kyskythyn.6471:

Some points I’d like to bring up:
Necro “glass cannon” from what I’ve seen is more based off of consistent DPS rather than burst. While this does not appeal to everyone, remember that even a full damage spec necro has more hp than, say, a glass cannon thief or ele. The difference is that the eles and thieves have more escape mechanisms that necros lack.

Spectral walk is not only used for teleport juking. 30+ seconds of swiftness is oftentimes enough in itself to outrun specs without perma-swiftness.

To those that question Necro’s survivability, have you tried running a tank build, or at least a build with more toughness or vit? While a guardian is more of a support tank with a lot of boons/heals-to-allies skills, a necro makes for a very good soloer that is extremely difficult to bring down with a lot of blinds and godly amounts of hp (my base is 33k). Think of Spectral Walk/Armor as heals for your DS. Right now I’m also using Runes of the Forge which, paired with the soul reaping master trait Last Gasp, gives me 21 secs of protection at 50% every 60 seconds in addition to healing my DS due to the spectral armor. Believe me, it adds up to a lot of survivability. Can I kill things as fast as a thief/warrior/ele? Of course not. Do I enjoy hitting 150s on mobs? Not really… But I don’t die to three hits like glass cannons and have many methods of very much prolonging a fight.

Is necro perfect? Far from. Does everyone that’s complaining just need to L2P? Not at all. But all the same, there are a lot of players out there that have found success running all kinds of builds. Whining about how your class/build is broken is not going to cause ANet to magically swoop in with a “Hello unhappy client, how can we change to game to suit you?” I mean, that would be awesome, but still…

You said good points but still, I think you miss something. Yes, the Necro can be tanky if specced properly but the point is that the damage output will be that low that you aren’t going to harm your enemy at all. Most fights will end with you dead, that’s the point. A guardian, an elementalist or a thief is capable to being really tough to kill while also dealing decent damage, or at least enough damage output to outlast your enemy in most cases. Also, they have access to pretty (actually very) decent burst build while retaining most of their survivability and damage mitigation (just look at stealth thieves, might and fury elementalists or GS guardians), something that Necro lacks due to its survivability directly linked to HP stacking.

So we are subpar damage dealers, subpar tanks and also subpar hybrids. We don’t actually have a real place in this game.

Of course you can dish out some tough times to your enemies if you play properly but, still, you need to put much more efforts to get what any other profession can reach with ease.