Guild Wars 2

Or would that make it to powerful? I dont see that it would be to OP, and I do think Necros need some kind of projectile defense dont you agree?

Spectral Wall is already great as is. I’d rather see something like Corrosive Cloud destroy projectiles.

I could like Spectral Armor more if it included a short bit of reflect. Traiting spectral skills has significant opportunity cost and SA has a longish cool down.

A reflect on AoE like Wall with its shorter CD is a bit much to ask.

CPC has more limited uses so something sideways from area dislike in PvP and WvW would be great.

Anchoku.8142:

I could like Spectral Armor more if it included a short bit of reflect. Traiting spectral skills has significant opportunity cost and SA has a longish cool down.

A reflect on AoE like Wall with its shorter CD is a bit much to ask.

Mesmer focus has it, on a much shorter cooldown.
But even if it was SA i would be fine with it. We cannot block nor reflect right now :/

Ive always been a supporter of spectral wall reflecting. But i doubt they will change it. It was already changed once from vuln to fear.

When it was vuln it did actually have a small use in PvE. Then when it became fear it became totally useless in PvE but decent in PvP and WvW. Reflect would make it good in PvE again.

The problem is our spectral skills are already in a great place and adding reflects on top of that would be a bit over the top. Buffing skills that are not used to have added functionality that makes sense with the theme of the skill is a much better idea.

Shaogin.2679:

Spectral Wall is already great as is. I’d rather see something like Corrosive Cloud destroy projectiles.

i’d prefer to have projectile destruction on corrosive cloud aswell, since spectral wall already has some good effects, while corrosive cloud doesnt have a lot going on.

but im not sure if projectile destruction would actually help necromancers. wouldnt dungeon runners (and people who do the vinewrath on midlane) still prefer reflects cause of the damage?

spectral wall could get the reflect with spectral attunement tho, that would give people a reason to use the trait. if that happens, it needs some life force related addition, i think. like 2% life force for every reflected projectile or something.

For fun, I have been running fully and partially traited spectral skills in PvE to understand the limitations better. Fully traited, Walk can allow OH dagger and horn without needing SoL to compensate. OH dagger condi transfer is very nice when conditions are everywhere and Consuming them does not happen fast enough.

Armor adds sustain to zerker builds and combined with WoP and other condition management to make power builds tanky.

Wall is just a toy in PvE but is on a shorter CD. In Orr with its zerg-like mob spawns, it can be fun to watch them bounce off the wall while other professions nuke them. Few other players bother, or remember, to run through Wall for the protection. Even fewer leap through so that it seems very rare to glimpse those bubbles of my envy.

RashanDale.3609:

Shaogin.2679:

Spectral Wall is already great as is. I’d rather see something like Corrosive Cloud destroy projectiles.

i’d prefer to have projectile destruction on corrosive cloud aswell, since spectral wall already has some good effects, while corrosive cloud doesnt have a lot going on.

but im not sure if projectile destruction would actually help necromancers. wouldnt dungeon runners (and people who do the vinewrath on midlane) still prefer reflects cause of the damage?

While true, the other thing to remember is CPC’s long duration. Only traited Wall of Reflection matches it for projectile defense skills, so if uptime is a concern, CPC becomes very useful.

We could add a trait to make spectral skills reflect. I feel like that’d be interesting.

The Wizland.8435:

We could add a trait to make spectral skills reflect. I feel like that’d be interesting.

we could also just use one of the two that already exist.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

While true, the other thing to remember is CPC’s long duration. Only traited Wall of Reflection matches it for projectile defense skills, so if uptime is a concern, CPC becomes very useful.

A single Mesmer can reach 100% uptime with iWarden+Ether Signet+Phantasmal Haste.

3 Guardians/2 Guardians+1 Mesmer can reach 100% uptime without illusions, 2 Mesmers can do it if curtain reflect works for once. And that’s full reflection.

RashanDale.3609:

we could also just use one of the two that already exist.

What two? Last time I checked we don’t have any reflects. Having a trait for it would also synergize well with Last Gasp

The Wizland.8435:

What two?

two traits for spectral skills

Photoloss.4817:

A single Mesmer can reach 100% uptime with iWarden+Ether Signet+Phantasmal Haste.

3 Guardians/2 Guardians+1 Mesmer can reach 100% uptime without illusions, 2 Mesmers can do it if curtain reflect works for once. And that’s full reflection.

The point is that Wall of Reflection is basically the same duration as CPC but only reflects. Buffing CPC to have reflect makes it literally better in every way. Projectile destruction is fine, but making CPC reflect is insane. Comparing an entire group of reflect builds to one skill doesn’t make any sense.

I think SWall reflecting is too much with how much the skill can already do as well. Destruction sure, but reflecting is a massive boost to an already pretty decent skill.

Bhawb.7408:

Photoloss.4817:

A single Mesmer can reach 100% uptime with iWarden+Ether Signet+Phantasmal Haste.

3 Guardians/2 Guardians+1 Mesmer can reach 100% uptime without illusions, 2 Mesmers can do it if curtain reflect works for once. And that’s full reflection.

The point is that Wall of Reflection is basically the same duration as CPC but only reflects. Buffing CPC to have reflect makes it literally better in every way. Projectile destruction is fine, but making CPC reflect is insane. Comparing an entire group of reflect builds to one skill doesn’t make any sense.

I think SWall reflecting is too much with how much the skill can already do as well. Destruction sure, but reflecting is a massive boost to an already pretty decent skill.

My thoughts exactly. Spectral skills already have enough going for them and don’t need more effects piled on top. Underused skills should instead be buffed, and CPC fits the theme of projectile destruction perfectly.

RashanDale.3609:

two traits for spectral skills

Those two don’t grant reflection. Just because we already have some doesn’t mean we can’t have more. Options are good.

Anyways, while I would like projectile destruction on CPC, I don’t think it’d be good for balance due to it being a large AoE skill. With walls you can get around it, but with this you could prevent all projectiles from passing regardless of who it’s being targeted at and where the enemy is.

Projectile destruction exists on very large skills already, see: Swirling Winds, a 6s duration, 30s CD 400 radius skill. Has a lower CD, lower duration, and covers 2.7 times more area.

Bhawb.7408:

The point is that Wall of Reflection is basically the same duration as CPC but only reflects. Buffing CPC to have reflect makes it literally better in every way. Projectile destruction is fine, but making CPC reflect is insane. Comparing an entire group of reflect builds to one skill doesn’t make any sense.

I think SWall reflecting is too much with how much the skill can already do as well. Destruction sure, but reflecting is a massive boost to an already pretty decent skill.

Actually I meant that buffing CPC for “uptime” is futile, as dedicated anti-projectile supports can already reach 100% easily.

Unless a single necro can hit >25% reflect uptime any buff will only be relevant for specific PvP abuses or as a QoL change. I’d rather see the necro find its own unique supportive style, rather than try (and fail) to stand alongside Guardian/Mesmer. Projectile destruction definitely wouldn’t be too strong per se, though.

Photoloss.4817:

Bhawb.7408:

The point is that Wall of Reflection is basically the same duration as CPC but only reflects. Buffing CPC to have reflect makes it literally better in every way. Projectile destruction is fine, but making CPC reflect is insane. Comparing an entire group of reflect builds to one skill doesn’t make any sense.

I think SWall reflecting is too much with how much the skill can already do as well. Destruction sure, but reflecting is a massive boost to an already pretty decent skill.

Actually I meant that buffing CPC for “uptime” is futile, as dedicated anti-projectile supports can already reach 100% easily.

Unless a single necro can hit >25% reflect uptime any buff will only be relevant for specific PvP abuses or as a QoL change. I’d rather see the necro find its own unique supportive style, rather than try (and fail) to stand alongside Guardian/Mesmer. Projectile destruction definitely wouldn’t be too strong per se, though.

CPC can be left as is, while simply adding projectile destruction. We don’t have to become specialists at projectile defense, we just could really use some due to our class mechanics. We purposely lack mobility and are meant to stay in the fight, but currently have no defense whatsoever against any ranged attacks. This change wouldn’t be abused in PvP or worthless in PvE, it would simply give us options to deal with certain situations without being op in any way.

The Wizland.8435:

Those two don’t grant reflection.

Options are good.

WELL NO kitten SHERLOCK

my point is: instead of throwing more spectral traits at the game, i would prefer it if one of the two that already exist are changed to provide reflect.

CPC is so PvP and WvW focused that it would be nice to have some PvE-only use attached; some small modifier to Defiance, maybe. CPC is useful for mobs that heal but scepter is fine for single targets. This is what I meant by adding something to improve CPC sideways.

Anchoku.8142:

CPC is so PvP and WvW focused that it would be nice to have some PvE-only use attached; some small modifier to Defiance, maybe. CPC is useful for mobs that heal but scepter is fine for single targets. This is what I meant by adding something to improve CPC sideways.

In that sense yeah, it’s a really nice idea. In terms of personal boosts, Spectral Armor seems bland enough to gain projectile block/reflect, potentially through a trait.

RashanDale.3609:

my point is: instead of throwing more spectral traits at the game, i would prefer it if one of the two that already exist are changed to provide reflect.

No need to be mad. Also, you really didn’t make that clear. At all.

Well of Darkness is a great candidate for projectile destruction IMHO. It would function much like Smoke Screen only as a different Combo Field. Also the size difference between the two skills is scaled pretty well by the difference in cooldowns as well. I think this would be a simple change that already has a similar skill currently so anyone trying to say ‘OP buff’ would sound silly. This skill needs some love. Necro needs some projectile defense. Make it happen Devs!

Photoloss.4817:

Anchoku.8142:

CPC is so PvP and WvW focused that it would be nice to have some PvE-only use attached; some small modifier to Defiance, maybe. CPC is useful for mobs that heal but scepter is fine for single targets. This is what I meant by adding something to improve CPC sideways.

In that sense yeah, it’s a really nice idea. In terms of personal boosts, Spectral Armor seems bland enough to gain projectile block/reflect, potentially through a trait.

Spectral Armor gives Protection and amazing Life Force generation and can also Proc at 50% automatically if Traited. Projectile Reflection on top of that would make it an over-the-top defense utility that would become mandatory in every build. No Thanks.

The Wizland.8435:

RashanDale.3609:

my point is: instead of throwing more spectral traits at the game, i would prefer it if one of the two that already exist are changed to provide reflect.

No need to be mad. Also, you really didn’t make that clear. At all.

Actually he made it very clear.

Tman.6349:

Well of Darkness is a great candidate for projectile destruction IMHO. It would function much like Smoke Screen only as a different Combo Field. Also the size difference between the two skills is scaled pretty well by the difference in cooldowns as well. I think this would be a simple change that already has a similar skill currently so anyone trying to say ‘OP buff’ would sound silly. This skill needs some love. Necro needs some projectile defense. Make it happen Devs!

Traited Well of Darkness already provides AoE Blind, Protection, and Life Siphons. I just don’t like the idea of stacking effects upon effects on single skills just because.

Shaogin, spectral traits have significant opportunity cost so I do not think of them as highly as you might. There is definitely a trade for DS and dps to use spectral traits and, without the traits, spectral skills are not attractive.

Traiting wells fits better for power builds than spectral and offers team support.

Overall, I feel like specral skills need one more little tweak for a bit more defense or offense to pay for the opportunity cost. Wall is kind of a one good trick pony but a lot of professions with similar skills have that problem. Walk or Armor are candidates for a tweak, imo.

Walk, because it can be made redundant by SoL or horn, may be the better candidate for an additional effect. Perhaps an effect that is only enabled by taking both spectral traits. The opposite of Taunt comes to mind.

Yeah and you have to spend 8 trait points into defensive lines just to get that measly 3 secs of Protection and leech 300 HPs on a 50 sec cooldown. And I’m talking about only adding 5 secs of projectile destruction to the base skill. Hardly OP. As for stacking effects on skills, one look at traited Steal and eh w/e. To get the maximum out of wells would require 12 pt investment. Two are defensive, one power based, and one condi based. I don’t really see the problem with WoD taking on this role. Unless you use condi Necro and would prefer CPC for biased reasons, then I could understand that and am fine with it. WoD just seems better thematically and it’s not very popular really.

To be honest i would use CPC alot more if it didnt apply weakness on self.
I wouldnt want a milisec of weakness on a power build, or having to spend a condi clear/transfer.

Might try it though on power nec with Shrouded Removal now that i think about it

Corruption skills have their best synergy with OH dagger builds and Consume Conditions. You can either transfer conditions or use them to increase your heal. Hybrid and condition builds benefit but power, DS, MM, and well builds not as much.

Pelopidas.2140:

To be honest i would use CPC alot more if it didnt apply weakness on self.
I wouldnt want a milisec of weakness on a power build, or having to spend a condi clear/transfer.

This is one of the skill’s biggest issues at the moment. Corrupt Boon is nice because if you use Consume Conditions (which you should) then the poison does literally nothing to you except some very minor DPS. Blood is Power works in PvE because you can afford the bleed on yourself, as you’ll consume it and be on your way. The vulnerability on Epidemic isn’t too bad, but it has other problems. Weakness on CPC is crippling, though, and you have to blow a cleanse on it immediately or you’ll seriously hurt your damage output.

This is sort of how I’ve always wanted CPC to work:

Corrosive Poison Cloud
Torment yourself. The target area is enveloped in a noxious cloud that destroys projectiles and afflicts foes with Poison and Weakness.
Poison: 2 s
Weakness: 2 s
Self Torment (2 stacks): 10 s
Number of Targets: 5
Duration: 12 s
Condition Application Interval: 1 s
Radius: 240
Combo Field: Poison
Range: 900
Unblockable

Only changes here are:

• Destroys projectiles
• Self-Torment instead of Self-Weakness
• Applies conditions every 1s instead of every 3s
• Reduced condition duration to 2s instead of 3s

A 2s duration is insane for a 1s pulse.

If you have a target for CPC, the weakness is a powerful transfer. I have gotten to where I always use a Carrion build (regardless of armor stats) when building around corruption utilities.

I have been experimenting with spectral skills. Maybe it is time to do the same with corruptions.

maybe gs will have reflects.
anyway i dont agree that necro needs reflects.

Stand The Wall.6987:

maybe gs will have reflects.
anyway i dont agree that necro needs reflects.

You dont think so? afaik we dont have any blocks either, DS is the only defense we need?

PvE has a heavy reliance on projectile defence. Not having any is a major disadvantage to the class. Especially when you consider things like orrian turrets in arah, Mai trin, Imbued shaman and just about every trash mob group in the game. :P

Thats only naming a few obvious examples. There are literally projectile attacks everywhere in game. Some which you would not even normally associate as projectile attacks. Yet despite that they can be reflected and blocked with projectile defence. One really obscure example is the grenth wraiths life drain attack in arah p4. There are also melee attacks on some mobs which can be blocked with reflects.

Anchoku.8142:

Shaogin, spectral traits have significant opportunity cost so I do not think of them as highly as you might. There is definitely a trade for DS and dps to use spectral traits and, without the traits, spectral skills are not attractive.

Traiting wells fits better for power builds than spectral and offers team support.

Overall, I feel like specral skills need one more little tweak for a bit more defense or offense to pay for the opportunity cost. Wall is kind of a one good trick pony but a lot of professions with similar skills have that problem. Walk or Armor are candidates for a tweak, imo.

Walk, because it can be made redundant by SoL or horn, may be the better candidate for an additional effect. Perhaps an effect that is only enabled by taking both spectral traits. The opposite of Taunt comes to mind.

Tman.6349:

Yeah and you have to spend 8 trait points into defensive lines just to get that measly 3 secs of Protection and leech 300 HPs on a 50 sec cooldown. And I’m talking about only adding 5 secs of projectile destruction to the base skill. Hardly OP. As for stacking effects on skills, one look at traited Steal and eh w/e. To get the maximum out of wells would require 12 pt investment. Two are defensive, one power based, and one condi based. I don’t really see the problem with WoD taking on this role. Unless you use condi Necro and would prefer CPC for biased reasons, then I could understand that and am fine with it. WoD just seems better thematically and it’s not very popular really.

It’s not about how much you have to trait for it, it’s about what you can get if you did trait for it. Sure it may not be practical, but the possibilities are still there. Taking Spectral skills may not be as popular in pve, but in pvp they are highly used. It would be over the top to add reflection to them from a pvp standpoint. Wells are in the same category, may not be practical to trait for, but you can. And wells currently see plenty of use in all game modes for Necros. The point is to stop overbuffing skills that already perform well and start making less valued skills more practical. And no Tman, I play power Necro.

Bhawb.7408:

A 2s duration is insane for a 1s pulse.

So ANet can make it 1s if they agree. Poison Grenade pulses 3s Poison every 1s per grenade where fields can overlap already and lasts for 5s, so I felt 2s Poison/Weakness every 1s for 12s was fine for something with a much larger cooldown and that takes a critical utility slot.

I’ll bet revenant will have reflects … just because we asked for it :P

We already know Rev has projectile block with 50% uptime. On a weapon. And is a dark field. So yeah.

if anything were added to address this issue, i would imagine something like well of darkness destroying projectiles or warhorn #4 reflecting for 2-3 seconds.

Rising Dusk.2408:

So ANet can make it 1s if they agree. Poison Grenade pulses 3s Poison every 1s per grenade where fields can overlap already and lasts for 5s, so I felt 2s Poison/Weakness every 1s for 12s was fine for something with a much larger cooldown and that takes a critical utility slot.

We already have that via Death Nova, neither of them also apply weakness. That is a base 26s (13 pulses) of poison and weakness on a 30s CD that can cover a point; 20% condition duration, Master of Corruption, or one blast and projectile finisher (per cast) to get 100% duration.

I just think in PvE fear should just have the mobs shake in fear without moving. Then it works like a stun and it’s actually not terrible.

Apparently you didn’t read/see the part where I made abundantly clear that I was talking about projectile destruction and even went out of my way to camp are it, from a balanced standpoint, to Smoke Screen. Once again, WoD is our perfect candidate for projectile control.

“Over buffing skills that perform well”….. uhm…WoD isn’t even taken in in PvE power builds and, with the slow attack speed/high damage, AoE blinds are, arguably, one of the most powerful defense skills PvE has to offer. I say this as someone who’s speedrun with a S/p thief for almost two years now. WoD sucks right now, for meta builds, even when traited.

Fully traited it reads ~“reduced damage on 2-5 skills for 5 seconds of every 40”….

You’re joking right?

WoD is just a garbage black powder that also gives the wrong combo blast.

WoD is better than black powder for burst trash mob clearing. Assuming the duration is enough. Black powders small radius makes it pretty weak. Especially since they nerfed its pulses. However even though black powder isnt perfect. Its good enough. And its spammable to a certain degree. But for more spread out groups its not very effective. A sandstorm or WoD is far more effective for though groups.

What you should be comparing WoD to is glyph of storms sandstorm. Glyph of storms has almost twice the duration, has more pulses, does damage and has additional types of AOE depending on attunement. So yeah looking at it like that WoD could definitely do with a buff. Buffed duration and pulses would be the minimum i would ask for.

What about a cooldown slash? Like, say, to 30 seconds?

Since the well only applies a non-damaging condition with no other effects (baseline, and even traited isn’t that menacing), I have no clue why it is so massive of a cooldown.

Also, Glyph of Storms is a 60 second cooldown. WoD is a 50 second cooldown. WoD also has 1/5 the cast time.

My mistake on cooldowns. For some reason i had the idea that glyph was 45 seconds which is kind of weird since i play ele almost exclusively. x)

Cast time is kind of irrelevant when considering a defensive cooldown of this type. I would happily take a longer cast time if it was on the same level as sandstorm.

30 second cooldown sounds good. I would also say buff the duration a bit. It needs to be much better than black powder seeing as its a utility skill. And it should be comparable to sandstorm.

I don’t think lowering the CD is necessarily the answer (though a slightly reduced one might be appropriate), I’d much prefer it be really strong and have a long duration but have a “cost” of not being able to use it associated. Dropping the CD is certainly a power boost, but it is also one that dumbs down skill usage, and also limits how strong skills can be per-use.