Guild Wars 2

It might have been already suggested but I feel like the last patch missed an enormous opportunity to tie shroud decay and barrier moment of decay with concentration.

It would be logical that with more concentration a necromancer would be able to retain longer it’s shroud transformation don’t you think?

The same way, barrier being a “support” tools, it being affected by concentration would help a lot and even reduce some of the concerns exprimed on this forum.

What do you think guys?

Wouldn’t adding a concentration effect on this 2 mechanisms open some build diversity as well as help to strengthen any support role for the scourge?

As it stand, vital persistence give vitality, if it give concentration instead wouldn’t this lessen the strength of this traits while still keeping it usefull?

Doesn’t the fact that concentration is a stat in itself would help a lot in “balancing” any build that come out of this?

But the decay is fine. Everyone is so worked up about the decay, if anything, ask for higher base barrier counts. That way, you deal with the so called delay AND get more damage sponge.

The goal of the idea is to make the trait valuable for both scourge and every necromancer spec while reducing the reliance on a trait that is starting to become madatory due to the fact that it give more vitality while vitality, due to scourge, start to gain a lot more attention.

I get the fact that you are satisfied by this delay. But you certainly do not play a build that is trying to volontary support your allies. Adding concentration in the equation would only give some breath to such builds while still keeping some balance.

If 1000 concentration lengthen the barrier duration to 3 seconds instead of 2, It would add QoL, while not hurting your feeling. The actual delay is fine for dps spec and it’s a given that dps specs won’t invest into concentration.

If 1000 concentration grant -25% shroud decay, it would also help all necromancer build that would want to relie more on shroud.

Don’t consider it from the microcosme of the scourge but from the necromancer pov as a whole. This suggestion is meant to benefit the whole necromancer not making 1 build overpowered. Vital persistence vitality bonus is of a tremendous help to Scourge because it’s LF cost is fixed, the shroud doesn’t really benefit from it.

Honestly Ramoth, it feel like you are just content with one build and don’t want to look at other options. You really love the scourge, we get it. It’s effective in sPvP and WvW due to it’s high burst condi damage, sure. But, on fights that are less “nervous”, that lack boons to corrupt or condition to remove a scourge build lose tremendous damage and the barrier delay feel like a candle in the wind.

Actually, this is a fantastic idea.

Especially since Scourge really doesn’t have that many boons to spread around, thereby devaluing Concentration.

If they use concentration for that we will have Vitality – larger LF pool/Healing power – bigger Barriers/Concentration – slower Barrier decay. I think 3 defensive stats is to much. This will lead to less build diversity.

Dadnir.5038:

The goal of the idea is to make the trait valuable for both scourge and every necromancer spec while reducing the reliance on a trait that is starting to become madatory due to the fact that it give more vitality while vitality, due to scourge, start to gain a lot more attention.

I get the fact that you are satisfied by this delay. But you certainly do not play a build that is trying to volontary support your allies. Adding concentration in the equation would only give some breath to such builds while still keeping some balance.

If 1000 concentration lengthen the barrier duration to 3 seconds instead of 2, It would add QoL, while not hurting your feeling. The actual delay is fine for dps spec and it’s a given that dps specs won’t invest into concentration.

If 1000 concentration grant -25% shroud decay, it would also help all necromancer build that would want to relie more on shroud.

Don’t consider it from the microcosme of the scourge but from the necromancer pov as a whole. This suggestion is meant to benefit the whole necromancer not making 1 build overpowered. Vital persistence vitality bonus is of a tremendous help to Scourge because it’s LF cost is fixed, the shroud doesn’t really benefit from it.

Honestly Ramoth, it feel like you are just content with one build and don’t want to look at other options. You really love the scourge, we get it. It’s effective in sPvP and WvW due to it’s high burst condi damage, sure. But, on fights that are less “nervous”, that lack boons to corrupt or condition to remove a scourge build lose tremendous damage and the barrier delay feel like a candle in the wind.

What on earth are you on about. If you think it’s ok for pvp and wvw then pve should be even less reliant on prebuffing barrier because in pve you actually get attack telegraphing indicators, i.e. the big orange zones.

And the fact you think you know how i play necromancer is laughable, i literally went back to reaper today tweaking two different builds. I don’t go settling for meta or just one op build, not that reaper has any anyways.

If i wanted anet handing us buffs i sure as hell dont want it to be stacking freaking concentration just to get reduced shroud decay.

Necro is infinitely more useful outside of shroud than in shroud save for a few situations. Devs have always said its something you get in, then get out, but for some reason a whole bunch of you think it’s the end of the world when vp got nerfed.

Ramoth.9064:

Dadnir.5038:

The goal of the idea is to make the trait valuable for both scourge and every necromancer spec while reducing the reliance on a trait that is starting to become madatory due to the fact that it give more vitality while vitality, due to scourge, start to gain a lot more attention.

I get the fact that you are satisfied by this delay. But you certainly do not play a build that is trying to volontary support your allies. Adding concentration in the equation would only give some breath to such builds while still keeping some balance.

If 1000 concentration lengthen the barrier duration to 3 seconds instead of 2, It would add QoL, while not hurting your feeling. The actual delay is fine for dps spec and it’s a given that dps specs won’t invest into concentration.

If 1000 concentration grant -25% shroud decay, it would also help all necromancer build that would want to relie more on shroud.

Don’t consider it from the microcosme of the scourge but from the necromancer pov as a whole. This suggestion is meant to benefit the whole necromancer not making 1 build overpowered. Vital persistence vitality bonus is of a tremendous help to Scourge because it’s LF cost is fixed, the shroud doesn’t really benefit from it.

Honestly Ramoth, it feel like you are just content with one build and don’t want to look at other options. You really love the scourge, we get it. It’s effective in sPvP and WvW due to it’s high burst condi damage, sure. But, on fights that are less “nervous”, that lack boons to corrupt or condition to remove a scourge build lose tremendous damage and the barrier delay feel like a candle in the wind.

What on earth are you on about. If you think it’s ok for pvp and wvw then pve should be even less reliant on prebuffing barrier because in pve you actually get attack telegraphing indicators, i.e. the big orange zones.

And the fact you think you know how i play necromancer is laughable, i literally went back to reaper today tweaking two different builds. I don’t go settling for meta or just one op build, not that reaper has any anyways.

If i wanted anet handing us buffs i sure as hell dont want it to be stacking freaking concentration just to get reduced shroud decay.

Necro is infinitely more useful outside of shroud than in shroud save for a few situations. Devs have always said its something you get in, then get out, but for some reason a whole bunch of you think it’s the end of the world when vp got nerfed.

Then how do you propose we survive if we get bursted down with warrior type when shroud is down? Because the reason that is there is to help us survive something we know is coming.Shroud helped us survive with reaper and now we don’t have it we are more vulnerable than ever.Granted we got some mobility but the minute we try to go to staff outside shroud we will be kittened because we will get blown up instantly by some warrior or holo engi or renegade with d/p and deadeye.

Interesting idea, Dadnir. I like it.

I also like suggestions from others to add a short delay to the decay. One second before the barrier starts delaying should help flatten barrier performance.

Ramoth.9064:

What on earth are you on about. If you think it’s ok for pvp and wvw then pve should be even less reliant on prebuffing barrier because in pve you actually get attack telegraphing indicators, i.e. the big orange zones.

I just need to read this to see that you don’t get PvE at all. And that’s why you fight for things to stay as they are while other fight for some tweeks. Sure in open PvE the big orange zone are the treat that you need to dodge (forget barriers you’d be a fool to use them in such area).

However, in other aspect of PvE (hint : the group content) you’ll need something that lengthen the duration of your barriers to be a support, because as it stand, you’ll just be able to produce a barrier that mitigate 1 hit out of 2. As for the “big” hits just forget it.

I also see you saying that the shroud is supposed to be entered and left quickly and that the devs said it. The shroud was supposed to be our mean of support shroud skill #4, our mean of high power dps AA and defense. The real issue being that the whole defense thing hacked at the other 2 role.

A condi build was not supposed to rely on shroud, but power and support were supposed to do it. That’s why we got this whole GS crap because shroud was doing a terrible job at was it was supposed to do. Staying in shroud a bit longer mean that you have more room to support your allies and more room to actually do damages. Heck! We even have a crapload of traits that make us more effective only if we are in shroud. It should be enough for you to not say such a thing.

Relying on a stat (which by definition is limited and limit you) to be more effective should be a given. That’s why I feel that it’s another missed opportunity that they didn’t used concentration to grant to the necromancer what they were losing when they changed VP.

NB.: Another thing to say is that the scourge is tailored to be a nightmare for players, not for mobs. A scourge, however you put it, is 30% more effective against players and players cry louder than mobs will ever cry. The nerfs that will be done due to the PvP/WvW community will most likely hit harder PvE than they will hit PvP. Concentration would be a stat niche for the necromancer to have a steadier sit in PvE with a minimal impact on PvP/WvW where having higher barrier value is obviously more advantageous than having steadier barriers.

It’s just that, the dullness of PvE need mechanisms that are a bit duller while the nervousness of PvP/WvW fare well with little burst mechanisms. Which is what the current barrier is. In PvP/WvW, it’s fine to have shortlived boon/conditions because they come and disapear quickly to create some nervous “burst” and complimenting the gameplay of these game modes. In PvE it’s the opposite you need steady boons/conditions, you need a steady support and the ability to “burst”, while it was usefull in the old dungeon, lost some of it’s value with the introduction of the raids where you need high and steady sustained damage. Having the leisure to spam the Death shroud auto attack in such environment might as well help a lot in regard of dps.

Tbh i feel that the suggestion that barrier decays slower with concetration it is a good suggestion.
It would help some stats see more playtime on support necro,like seraph or minstrel.
As it is now both sets are outperformed by 3 stat sets.
Scourge selling point is supposed to be support,and atm the only competitive scaling i found is to go healing since garish pillar also heals the scourge .
And the base durations for might are absolutely horrible even at capped boon duration.

shroud decay i dont think so since with the signet changes if you take signet of undeath you can stay in reaper shroud for like ever.

As for the barrier degen time yes that would be really nice. Then barrier could be used even earlier and you could time things better. I would love to see even a small buff like 225 concentration for a .3 second increese. That lines up with the shade minor trait and wont be a huge scale to just have barrier for like 10 seconds.

Dadnir.5038:

Ramoth.9064:

What on earth are you on about. If you think it’s ok for pvp and wvw then pve should be even less reliant on prebuffing barrier because in pve you actually get attack telegraphing indicators, i.e. the big orange zones.

I just need to read this to see that you don’t get PvE at all. And that’s why you fight for things to stay as they are while other fight for some tweeks. Sure in open PvE the big orange zone are the treat that you need to dodge (forget barriers you’d be a fool to use them in such area).

However, in other aspect of PvE (hint : the group content) you’ll need something that lengthen the duration of your barriers to be a support, because as it stand, you’ll just be able to produce a barrier that mitigate 1 hit out of 2. As for the “big” hits just forget it.

I also see you saying that the shroud is supposed to be entered and left quickly and that the devs said it. The shroud was supposed to be our mean of support shroud skill #4, our mean of high power dps AA and defense. The real issue being that the whole defense thing hacked at the other 2 role.

A condi build was not supposed to rely on shroud, but power and support were supposed to do it. That’s why we got this whole GS crap because shroud was doing a terrible job at was it was supposed to do. Staying in shroud a bit longer mean that you have more room to support your allies and more room to actually do damages. Heck! We even have a crapload of traits that make us more effective only if we are in shroud. It should be enough for you to not say such a thing.

Relying on a stat (which by definition is limited and limit you) to be more effective should be a given. That’s why I feel that it’s another missed opportunity that they didn’t used concentration to grant to the necromancer what they were losing when they changed VP.

NB.: Another thing to say is that the scourge is tailored to be a nightmare for players, not for mobs. A scourge, however you put it, is 30% more effective against players and players cry louder than mobs will ever cry. The nerfs that will be done due to the PvP/WvW community will most likely hit harder PvE than they will hit PvP. Concentration would be a stat niche for the necromancer to have a steadier sit in PvE with a minimal impact on PvP/WvW where having higher barrier value is obviously more advantageous than having steadier barriers.

It’s just that, the dullness of PvE need mechanisms that are a bit duller while the nervousness of PvP/WvW fare well with little burst mechanisms. Which is what the current barrier is. In PvP/WvW, it’s fine to have shortlived boon/conditions because they come and disapear quickly to create some nervous “burst” and complimenting the gameplay of these game modes. In PvE it’s the opposite you need steady boons/conditions, you need a steady support and the ability to “burst”, while it was usefull in the old dungeon, lost some of it’s value with the introduction of the raids where you need high and steady sustained damage. Having the leisure to spam the Death shroud auto attack in such environment might as well help a lot in regard of dps.

Where exactly did you get the idea that shroud is for support? Its laughable. You can enter shroud, transfusion, exit and reenter when the cd is done. You don’t need vp for that.

Secondly, none of the raid content requires barriee thus far, so dont act like youve been testing raid content with the new specs. And you know what, if raids get to the point where the difference between survival and death is one second of barrier people would just go stacking vitality food. You do realise between the 9 classes everyone will have different hp? That one second of barrier aint going to do kitten.

And drop the condescending tone.

Just so you know, your dps is lower staying in shroud doing auto attacks.

Every single ‘while in shroud’ trait is useless for group content pve too btw, with the exception of deaths perception. Reapers onslaught gets overwritten by quickness, shrouded removal is way too slow to matter, you dont need to go out of your way to apply might or vulnerability, and toughness is generally not desired.

Make barrier degen same speed as shroud degen?