Guild Wars 2

I use Foot in the Grave trait for stability, and can often time my DS and Finish move so I finish people while still in DS.

If I miss the timing just a bit I’ll cancel the finish with DS, or I’ll be unable to finish because I’m already in DS.

This makes me wonder if I’m exploiting a bug. It doesn’t seem intentional for necromancers to be able to use DS to finish people. I’m of the opinion that finishing in DS should be allowed, since finishing in stealth and mist form both work fine. Even so, I wondered if anyone else has better information. I don’t want to exploit a bugs to win, so if shroudstomping is an exploit then I’ll just find another way to get the job done.

PinCushion.7390:

Yeah, I agree that it’s fair. My question is if it’s an exploit. I don’t want to learn a playstyle that will inevitably be patched out of existence.

When I see the word “exploit” in an MMO, I think of it in two senses.

First is an action that the devs can suspend/ban you for doing. Obviously DS Stomp/Rez isn’t that kind of exploit since no one’s being banned or suspended.

Second is an action or strategy that’s unintended by the devs and viewed by them as either working around something that they don’t want you to do, or giving you an unfair advantage over other players. Depending on the complaint level and how severely it offends the devs sensibilities, they may prioritize it or not.

I’d say that DS Stomp/Rez is fairly obviously a low-priority exploit of the second type. Perhaps they’re looking the other way because it’s very difficult to fix (probably involving server latencies and server-client communications). Perhaps they realize that the DS mechanism was changed in late beta and is unpolished and so could use a bit if a boost for now, but they’ll fix the problem when they polish DS at some later date.

Why would I say that? The way it’s invoked: you have to hit two keys within a fraction of a second of each other, and the order you hit them in matters. That screams “bug” to me as a software developer.

In fact, some people program macros on their controller to do it, and that’s actually an exploit of the first type and you can be suspended/banned for doing that. (It’s just very hard to prove you did it.) AN has stated that they don’t mind controllers being used or even macros that do a single action, but macros that do multiple actions are illegal. (They don’t provide a programmable UI, unlike WoW, at least in part to prevent this.)

Somebody will give you a better explanation, but as far as I read it`s a bug, which kinda said to be fixed, but then again I tried to do it yesterday and still can finish players in DS, same goes with revive, but many point out that you can get stuck after that.
That`s said, not sure if it`s a good idea to allow us to finish in DS, but I`d really like to see prolonged stability duration from foot in the grave, because even if you quickly enter-exit DS you still have 1-2 sec in the end when your stability wears off.

From what I gather, it’s unintended by AN. On the other hand, Elementalists can stomp in Mist Form or even with Invulnerability (Earth Focus skill I believe), so it doesn’t really seem unfair until those kinds of loopholes are closed.

Supposed to be a bug yeah but really theres no reason we shouldn’t be able to stomp/revive in DS. Theres numerous other abilities multiple other classes can use to stomp/revive unhindered (mist form, invulnerability, stealth etc) yet spending a full 30 points in soul reaping and shroud stomping is the only way us Necros can pull it off. Not to mention with only 3s of stability you can still be stopped if the enemy times it right anyways though thats not an easy task.

Druitt.7629:

From what I gather, it’s unintended by AN. On the other hand, Elementalists can stomp in Mist Form or even with Invulnerability (Earth Focus skill I believe), so it doesn’t really seem unfair until those kinds of loopholes are closed.

Yeah, I agree that it’s fair. My question is if it’s an exploit. I don’t want to learn a playstyle that will inevitably be patched out of existence.

Even without Foot in the Grave, Shroud-stomping/reviving is a good technique to learn as you aren’t actually taking damage while you’re in death shroud. Even without stability, you’re safer in death shroud than out of it.

Personally I don’t think it’s an exploit, if it is then every class can exploit it. Stealth Stomp, Elxir S Stomp, Mist form Stomp ect. So if they do take this away from one class they must do it for all of the classes.

I’m not inclined to think it’s an exploit given that Engi’s and Ele’s can pop skills while casting stomp/revive that make them invulnerable. Other classes can do a variety of little tricks for stomping/reviving as well. I really don’t think it’s intended design though either. It’s just a bug that happens to have no effect on balance, and makes life a little easier on Necros. It’s not like it’s 100% reliable either and doesn’t work at all with reviving.

Even if you don’t spec for stability, shroud stomp is uber useful for finishing off downed players while you have low HP.

hackks.3687:

It’s just a bug that happens to have no effect on balance, and makes life a little easier on Necros. It’s not like it’s 100% reliable either and doesn’t work at all with reviving.

I think this is 100% correct. Unfortunately, the people who work on balance are not the people that work on bugs. And any feature that’s due to a bug may disappear when that bug is fixed for totally unrelated reasons.

If AN closes other professions out of actions during Stomp, or if AN makes it so that DS Stomp doesn’t require tricky timing, I’d feel reassured. Unless that happens, it’s a (non-bannable) exploit that may disappear at any time, even in a stealth patch.

(My theory is that DS Stomp works because of delays in client-server communication and how the server side handles two actions that occur within the lag-allowance window. Some programmer at AN could get an award for cutting the latency in half and coming up with a better event queue that makes the game better in a dozen ways… oh, and unnoticed to the programming team also breaks DS Stomp.)

Curring.9752:

Personally I don’t think it’s an exploit, if it is then every class can exploit it. Stealth Stomp, Elxir S Stomp, Mist form Stomp ect. So if they do take this away from one class they must do it for all of the classes.

Exactly. Every thief I fight uses pops a stealth to finish their stomp (mesmers can do this as well). Warriors use frenzy for a quick stomp or pop some other stability buff. This isn’t an exploit at all.

hackks.3687:

I’m not inclined to think it’s an exploit given that Engi’s and Ele’s can pop skills while casting stomp/revive that make them invulnerable. Other classes can do a variety of little tricks for stomping/reviving as well. I really don’t think it’s intended design though either. It’s just a bug that happens to have no effect on balance, and makes life a little easier on Necros. It’s not like it’s 100% reliable either and doesn’t work at all with reviving.

Even if you don’t spec for stability, shroud stomp is uber useful for finishing off downed players while you have low HP.

Almost 100% sure that it works while reviving. o-o

Curring.9752:

hackks.3687:

I’m not inclined to think it’s an exploit given that Engi’s and Ele’s can pop skills while casting stomp/revive that make them invulnerable. Other classes can do a variety of little tricks for stomping/reviving as well. I really don’t think it’s intended design though either. It’s just a bug that happens to have no effect on balance, and makes life a little easier on Necros. It’s not like it’s 100% reliable either and doesn’t work at all with reviving.

Even if you don’t spec for stability, shroud stomp is uber useful for finishing off downed players while you have low HP.

Almost 100% sure that it works while reviving. o-o

While I can only speak from my experience in PvP I can say that I shroud-stomp successfully probably 90% of the time. Shroud-revive however has not worked for me since the last major patch (Nov 15) and only yields a nice (read as: not very nice at all) animation glitch that requires you to /sit or other /emotes to be able to move again.

Hmm something may have changed then, can’t say I’ve had much experience res-shrouding lately as I’ve been on my Ele mostly. So it was probs a stealth nerf/fix or maybe they tried to fix something and broke that while doing so. =L

kidbs.8920:

Curring.9752:

Personally I don’t think it’s an exploit, if it is then every class can exploit it. Stealth Stomp, Elxir S Stomp, Mist form Stomp ect. So if they do take this away from one class they must do it for all of the classes.

Exactly. Every thief I fight uses pops a stealth to finish their stomp (mesmers can do this as well). Warriors use frenzy for a quick stomp or pop some other stability buff. This isn’t an exploit at all.

“Exploit” can mean different things. It can mean something that’s unintended that gives an undue advantage. DS Stomp isn’t that. It can mean something that’s unintended and the devs hate it so much they’ll suspend you. DS Stomp isn’t that.

But it can also be synonymous with “unintended” or “favorable bug”, and I’m pretty sure DS Stomp does fall in that category. The way it works is just too quirky, too bug-like.

Now it may be that the devs actually even like how it works. That they realize DS has a lot of rough edges and this fortuitous bug makes it slightly better. But that doesn’t mean it won’t disappear tomorrow when some programmer at AN fixes some other issue that’s also caused by this bug.

The OP isn’t asking for whether it’s morally a good idea, or whether it’s helpful to Necros. He’s asking is it likely to go away after he’s ingrained it deeply in his playstyle.

In beta, the trait used to give you stability the entire time you were in DS. That is most likely why you can’t initiate stomps and revives while in DS now. IMO, they forgot to take a second look at whether you should be able to stomp in DS after they nerfed that trait. It would have definitely been OP when you had stability for the full DS.

You can DS revive. I’ve done it alot and I believe its in two of my movies.

I’m still not sure how they are going to come down on this one. DS stomps and revives have an advantage in how frequently you can enter DS and the ability to absorb damage while you are vulnerable stomping and/or reviving.

With mark of revival, Necros can bring a lot to the table in managing downed states during fights. If that is taken away, I’ll just stop playing the necro since it’s a major draw for me when playing with my friends. I’ve already started playing my Guardian again and he is set up to protect stomps and revives with block and stability.

If you don’t have a way to help your group secure stomps and revives, you are actually a detriment to your team.

Oozo.7856:

In beta, the trait used to give you stability the entire time you were in DS. That is most likely why you can’t initiate stomps and revives while in DS now. IMO, they forgot to take a second look at whether you should be able to stomp in DS after they nerfed that trait. It would have definitely been OP when you had stability for the full DS.

You can DS revive. I’ve done it alot and I believe its in two of my movies.

I’m still not sure how they are going to come down on this one. DS stomps and revives have an advantage in how frequently you can enter DS and the ability to absorb damage while you are vulnerable stomping and/or reviving.

With mark of revival, Necros can bring a lot to the table in managing downed states during fights. If that is taken away, I’ll just stop playing the necro since it’s a major draw for me when playing with my friends. I’ve already started playing my Guardian again and he is set up to protect stomps and revives with block and stability.

If you don’t have a way to help your group secure stomps and revives, you are actually a detriment to your team.

have you tried it since Nov 15 patch? Because I know it used to work prior to then because I actually did use it. Since then though I have not gotten a single successful shroud-revive. Just a LOT of animation glitches and dead teammates. The last shroudstomp movie of yours I saw that had a shroud-revive in it was from back in Oct. or something.

If they “fix” this, they better fix:

Rangers using Haste to stomp.
Guardians using Stand Your Ground to stomp
Warriors using Haste or Balanced Stance to stomp
Thieves using Stealth to stomp
Engineers using Elixir S to stomp
Elementalists using Mistform to stomp

Seriously, every class except Mesmer can do some form of uninterruptable stomp and I’m sure Mesmer can too with Distortion or Mass Stealth or something.

Yeah, mesmer can do stealth stomps with invulnerability from distortion. :P

When you are checking for ways to stomp look at what instant abilities are available to the build since instant abilities can be used during the stomp channel.

haccks, I haven’t played my necro recently. I’m switching to my guardian (which was actually my first 80) since it’s far more effective for small scale fighting with my friends.

I did a massive post on it, and it wasn’t very popular/talked about.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Death-Shroud-Stomping-Reviving-Exploit-or-Bug-my-Hotjoin-sPvP-Match-video-inside/first#post592745

And yes, I’ve tried it Post November 15 patch. Death shroud stomping is still viable after the patch and I can do revives and stomps easily.

The thing is, after downed healths have been decreased to 75% of what they used to. Its not ‘as’ needed to death stomp.

The death shroud revival is still useful but the stability isnt needed and you can do that outside of the trait.

Here’s a quick tip for those not using the trait. Load the body up with conditions while people are ressing. And then epidemic the body so the person rezzing gets hit by kittenons of conditions. And then use blood is power, it makes all the conditions do massive damage. If you do this right, you’ll end up with tons of downed people cause they tried to res and ended up eating tons of conditions.

Methods of stomping vary in effectiveness.

Ranger haste stomp is easily the worst way of stomping. The pet swap for 2 seconds of haste is NOT enough to get the full stomp hasted. So while it does increase the speed of the stomp it can be easily interrupted by the Downed 2 ability. Quickening Zephyr will cover the fulll duration and make the fastest stomp, however that is a utility cooldown which you won’t always have access to.

Guardian stand your ground again is a utility, you wanna complain about Aegis stomps which is their profession ability. It can be used mid stomp, which can also be traited to give stability when using. That is only a MASTER trait compared to a grandmaster trait that we have.

Haste/Balanced stomp are both utilities. They are ‘probably’ the second worst at stomping. Their utilities at least give stability.

Thieves stealth stomp, and haste stomp so you cant really stop them. They can also teleport stomp, shadow step away, shadowstep back as the stomp lands. Additionally blind stomps with blinding powder and the likes.

Engineers, elixer S stomp AND the throw profession for them, but thats mainly it. The throw is unreliable and a fairly long CD, so they aren’t ‘that’ great either.

Elementalists are probably one of the best stompers if you trait for the grandmaster Earth trait of stability on 2 seconds. With 20 arcane, and max earth, you’ll be possible to stomp every 8-9 seconds. Attunement swaps can be used midstomp, mid everything.

Now necro, we can potentially be one of the top stompers besides Elementalist. Ours is grandmaster as well, but its on 10s CD and requires life force. THe benefit is the fact its not our ‘real’ health while doing it making it EXTREMELY good. Not to mention you can fear while stomping.

Mesmer distortion is their main stomping besides many other methods. I think they can chaos storm stomp as well, besides stealth stomping with Decoy.

Here is some video showing thieves stomping power

Miseris.7498:

Rangers using Haste to stomp.

pet-swap to stomp :P

I think that thief in that video shadowstep stomped my innocence….

Time to reroll!!