Guild Wars 2

The current meta build on Metabattle for Necromancer in PvP is Signet Chillomancer. It uses the Warhorn.

However, to me (a less than mediocre necro tbh) seems like an Off-Hand Dagger would fit much better.

• #4 Bounces blind for when we’re focused and transfers condis that synergies with Plague Signet’s passive effect.
• #5 Aoe weakness for (again) when we’re focused and corrupt a boon!

Does the 2 sec aoe daze, aoe cripple and swiftness really that good? Or am I missing something else altogether?

Dont forget offhand dagger also dont give any lf and scepter doenst have the best lf generation so having warhorn can be nice in that regard.

And i dont think enfeebling blood is that good. The casttime+animation makes kinda slow (atleast i feel that way).

Warhorn gives LF generation and that’s quite important. Second, having a Daze is great if you know when to use it. And WH5 is pretty good for kiting when you need to keep distance. Plus you can activate it and go into Reaper, it will stay on you.

The daze is unblockable which is quite usefull. Also dagger 5 is just too slow for me.

Slow cast on offhand dagger is definitely a big turnoff. Plus neither of the dagger skills are clutch. A well timed daze is clutch at finishing someone off, preventing them from getting a big heal/skill off. A daze when you’re being pressured can give you a couple secs of less or no damage, which can help tremendously. And swiftness + cripple + lifeforce + ability to pop blind are always welcome.

And even more now that meta build doesnt use SR and LF is rare to get. You only want oh dagger against full condi teams, against everything else warhorn is better

I’ve been using it with signet chill and don’t think I’ll go back… Having the third condition transfer is awesome when you’re being trained (aka, all the time) and having access to weakness outside of curses helps so, so, so, so much.

You just have to be extra stingy about what you use your staff 5 on tho. =(

With the change to Perplexity runes (outside PVP) I think Warhorn lost a lot of its claim to undisputed off-hand weapon. If you run a build with proper LF generation, then the only flair is the AoE daze which always useful.

I’ve swapped to Dagger a long time ago and never looked back, dagger #4 is very useful as a condi transfer tool since I don’t run CC heal or plague signet and dagger #5 feels quite smooth if you can keybind it to your mouse (keyboard tap makes it hard to land properly), also dagger trait for movespeed boost and reduced CD is just too good, just can’t live without it.

I only use off-hand dagger for bleed builds with Master of Corruption.
Scepter/dagger is still very bad for LF generation, though, so I tend to use this sort of build only when relatively “safe”.

LF generation, Swiftness+cripple, Unblockable CC. Warhorn packs so many utilities.

gin.7158:

LF generation, Swiftness+cripple, Unblockable CC. Warhorn packs so many utilities.

To be fair Lf generation is something offhand dagger should have. It is actually the only weapon without Lf generation. It is specially ironic that a weapon, which is thematically tied to bloodmagic, has nether life siphon nor LF generation.

Muchacho.2390:

gin.7158:

LF generation, Swiftness+cripple, Unblockable CC. Warhorn packs so many utilities.

To be fair Lf generation is something offhand dagger should have. It is actually the only weapon without Lf generation. It is specially ironic that a weapon, which is thematically tied to bloodmagic, has nether life siphon nor LF generation.

Dagger 1 has the best LF generation skill that Necromancer has in comparson to all other weapons. Dagger 2 literally syphons life. In addition, the dagger is in the Blood Magic traitline. Beeing the fastest hitting Necro weapon it was designed for the life syphon tree. Theme-wise everything is in it’s place. It’s just for Power Necro, not Condi.

Bierzgal.2341:

Muchacho.2390:

gin.7158:

LF generation, Swiftness+cripple, Unblockable CC. Warhorn packs so many utilities.

To be fair Lf generation is something offhand dagger should have. It is actually the only weapon without Lf generation. It is specially ironic that a weapon, which is thematically tied to bloodmagic, has nether life siphon nor LF generation.

Dagger 1 has the best LF generation skill that Necromancer has in comparson to all other weapons. Dagger 2 literally syphons life. In addition, the dagger is in the Blood Magic traitline. Beeing the fastest hitting Necro weapon it was designed for the life syphon tree. Theme-wise everything is in it’s place. It’s just for Power Necro, not Condi.

Honestly it doesnt matter if it is condi or not (bloodmagic actually has condi traits so whatever). Take it how you will, offhand dagger’s trait (like mainhand dagger) is in the bloodmagic line and doesnt favor nether power nor condi. So i think it is fair to say it is thematically more bloodmagic (the names of the skills are more or less fine for that too). And even if it is not it still wouldnt be a reason not to give lf generation to offhand dagger when every other necro weapon has a lf generating skill.

And yeah i know that both of its gw1 counterpart skills werent bloodmagic (deathly swarm was deathmagic and enfeebling blood curses) and funnily enough before the gw2 beta nether deathly swarm nor enfeebling blood were on offhand dagger.

Off topic: Also mainhand dagger only has the best life generation on single targets, infact staffs auto can generate more lf if you hit more then one target (the dagger auto chain is 2.1 sec and generates 8% lf and the staff auto is 1.4 sec and generates 4% per hit target).

Muchacho.2390:

Honestly it doesnt matter if it is condi or not (bloodmagic actually has condi traits so whatever). Take it how you will, offhand dagger’s trait (like mainhand dagger) is in the bloodmagic line and doesnt favor nether power nor condi.

Wait what… You do realise that Dagger 4 is almost literally making the Viper Horror raid and high fracal build right? That’s like, one of the most important skills of the build. The weapons are fine beside that “You don’t like something”. Everything has it’s place. Main Dagger is pure Power, Off Dagger is pure Condi. Tho Enfeebling Blood could use a buff. It’s often simply not worth clicking in the DPS rotation. I use it as a timer for RS. It’s great for PvE, in sPvP tho we simply don’t need another transfer and Warhorn has far more utility.

If Deathly Swarm or Enfeebling Blood gave lf, it would probably be better now.

Am I the only one who thinks focus is the best off-hand in almost any situation?

Bierzgal.2341:

Muchacho.2390:

Honestly it doesnt matter if it is condi or not (bloodmagic actually has condi traits so whatever). Take it how you will, offhand dagger’s trait (like mainhand dagger) is in the bloodmagic line and doesnt favor nether power nor condi.

Wait what… You do realise that Dagger 4 is almost literally making the Viper Horror raid and high fracal build right? That’s like, one of the most important skills of the build. The weapons are fine beside that “You don’t like something”. Everything has it’s place. Main Dagger is pure Power, Off Dagger is pure Condi. Tho Enfeebling Blood could use a buff. It’s often simply not worth clicking in the DPS rotation. I use it as a timer for RS. It’s great for PvE, in sPvP tho we simply don’t need another transfer and Warhorn has far more utility.

I am fully aware that offhand dagger is a condition weapon, no need to lecture me. It seems you dont understand my point. It was never about power or condition (or mechanics in general), it was about thematics and how bloodmagic traits have something for both condi and power builds (most of it is about getting health back though) and how the dagger trait is in bloodmagic and hence it is fair to say that both offhand and mainhand dagger can be considerd bloodmagic thematically.

But honestly it all that doesnt matter. What i wanted is that offhand dagger should have some lf generation and i merely tried to underline that with bloodmagic thematics but if you dont see it fine.

Heck you even said that enfeebling blood could get a small buff and i think the best way would be to give it lf generation. This will probably not help pve much but it will help for spvp (and yeah i know our meta builds dont need the condi transfer of offhand dagger but buffs are something you give to the non meta builds).

And since you pointed out that one of the problems offhand dagger has over warhorn is the lack of lf generation (which you said was quite important) i am not sure if you disagree with me on the point that offhand dagger needs lf generation.

Edit: I think i just realised bierzgal why you started talking about how dagger is a condition weapon. I think you thought i was talking about offhand dagger when i said “doesnt favor nether power nor condi”. That comment was about the dagger trait (and bloodmagic in general). Though i now see why it could be misunderstood as if i was talking about offhand dagger. Sorry about that.

Bierzgal.2341:

It’s great for PvE, in sPvP tho we simply don’t need another transfer and Warhorn has far more utility.

I dunno, I find the transfer super useful in signet spec since you lose the traited plague signet by not taking Curses. Also, you regain access to weakness, which once again, you lose by not taking Curses.

I think that was the OP’s original point—although they did’t directly say it—is that the OH dagger can help regain a good deal of what you’re missing out on when you drop Curses.

Hesacon.8735:

Am I the only one who thinks focus is the best off-hand in almost any situation?

You are

Muchacho.2390:

Edit: I think i just realised bierzgal why you started talking about how dagger is a condition weapon. I think you thought i was talking about offhand dagger when i said “doesnt favor nether power nor condi”. That comment was about the dagger trait (and bloodmagic in general). Though i now see why it could be misunderstood as if i was talking about offhand dagger. Sorry about that.

kitten . Now that’s a whole discussion down the drain then :P.

narcx.3570:

I dunno, I find the transfer super useful in signet spec since you lose the traited plague signet by not taking Curses. Also, you regain access to weakness, which once again, you lose by not taking Curses.

I think that was the OP’s original point—although they did’t directly say it—is that the OH dagger can help regain a good deal of what you’re missing out on when you drop Curses.

The tradeoff is just too big. Warhorn is simply too good not to use. It adds new possibilities to the build, Daze, LF generation, the Locust also combos really nice with the healing Signet when you activate it. Off-Dagger just gives you more of what you allready have. In Signetmancer you got the normal Plague Signet with lowered cooldown. And if someone really feels like he needs more cleansing (and that’s completely fine) then he takes “Consume Conditions”. Changing the off-weapon will simply make you weaker. If one is ok with that then sure, play what you want. People play with Power GS and are happy. But it is an inferior choice.

If there was a way to generate LF with OH dagger, I would use it more. I do not care if it is on a skill or a trait.

Hesacon.8735:

Am I the only one who thinks focus is the best off-hand in almost any situation?

It is the best offhand for power builds. But they are not in the meta, currently.

Razor.9872:

Hesacon.8735:

Am I the only one who thinks focus is the best off-hand in almost any situation?

It is the best offhand for power builds. But they are not in the meta, currently.

Warhorn is the best offhand no matter the build.

Frostfang/incinerator is life for power…though non-ballers may feel differently. OH dagger has always just fit my play better. Dagger 4 is my “shroud is on cooldown poor man’s safe stomp” skill.
edit: scepter/dagger for condi