Guild Wars 2

It makes absolutely zero sense for this skill to go thru LOS, it is not aoe or a teleport.

There was previously an issue of it having no max range as long as you have a target it would connect.
Now that one gamebreaking issue is fixed with this skill how about the other?

Gamebreaking. It’s a heal skill give it a break.

Gamebreaking? If you LoS’d the Necromancer you’ve LoS’d any followup they have. The skill does absolutely nothing on its own besides heal the Necromancer (unless traited), it is 100% in the follow up. You could also just use any negation and the Necromancer now has an extremely subpar skill. Comparable skills on other professions also can’t be LoS’d, only difference is they apply a buff instead of a debuff.

It ignores a lot more (blinds for sure, blocks I’m pretty confident), I’m not sure it should stay, on the other hand it is a 1,25 cast time heal skill with an obbligated follow up. It needs to be strong in some way(s) which it isn’t at the moment. Besides Bhawb brings up agood point about buffs.

This is not a thread about balance of a skills power.

Bhawb.7408:

Gamebreaking? If you LoS’d the Necromancer you’ve LoS’d any followup they have. (unless traited)

Unless traited like every single necro that you see in pvp. (using the heal)
I had LOS for 2 seconds, after I sat in disbelief that it actually connected.

Yes it needs follow up, but ignoring LOS, blinds, and blocks as tim wrote,
is straight up unbalanced mechanics.

HEDRO.2345:

This is not a thread about balance of a skills power.

Bhawb.7408:

Gamebreaking? If you LoS’d the Necromancer you’ve LoS’d any followup they have. (unless traited)

Unless traited like every single necro that you see in pvp. (using the heal)
I had LOS for 2 seconds, after I sat in disbelief that it actually connected.

Yes it needs follow up, but ignoring LOS, blinds, and blocks as tim wrote,
is straight up unbalanced mechanics.

I think the word you’re looking for is “inconsistent” not “unbalanced.”

There is nothing unbalanced about the skill itself since, while it goes through most defenses, those defenses are still in place to prevent follow-up, which the signet requires to do anything.

Inconsistent? Sure, I can agree with that.

I’m going to play devil’s advocate and say that, yeah, the vamp signet needs to get bugfixed. Its probably been overlooked precisely because its a heal skill, but anyway…

The fact that it goes through dodges/evades is the most troubling aspect of the skill. Think about it. You use it, corrupt two boons on them through their window of defense and then they’re susceptible to followup, unless you’re a mesmer chaining precog wells or a daredevil blowing all cooldowns, you won’t have enough evasion frames to wait through the total duration of the signet.

And even if you, the necro uses it through LoS, that doesn’t mean that others won’t be around to attack them and deal more damage through the siphons and take advantage of the corrupted boons. So while its not the biggest balance issue in the game, its making an intinsically weak heal skill artificially better than it actual is by having little options for counterplay.

HEDRO.2345:

This is not a thread about balance of a skills power.

unbalanced mechanics.

Balance is balance, there is no such thing as “unbalanced mechanics”, a skill is either balanced or not. There are unfair mechanics, but a skill can be balanced and be unfun or not healthy.

Now I think its plenty fair to argue about whether or not this is okay, but a LOT of skills in the game don’t have “counterplay”, and there are times when it is okay. Most defensive abilities have little or no counterplay. Many heals also have very little counterplay, especially the strong ones. Look at:

1. healing signet/signet of malice/signet of restoration
2. purification
3. withdraw
4. enchanted daggers
5. project tranquility/ventari’s will
6. shelter
7. facet of light/infuse light
8. defiant stance
9. blood reckoning
10. medic gyro
11. healing spring
12. well of eternity

Every single one of those listed is problematic by the standards you are using. They are either impossible to counter (things like instant or so short you won’t interrupt), rely on you dodging followup and not the initial cast, etc. Only difference is the allied effect, but again many of those skills are AoEs you can’t “counter”. On the other hand, most of the counterplay for those is the same for SOV, but SoV has a 1.25s cast time, whereas most of its comparable ones are instant or 0.75s.

So it is unfair now?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Signet-of-Vampirism-Facts

Keep nitpicking at my choice of word.
Call it whatever you wish, does not change the fact it is broken.

You are comparing SELF BENEFITs/Boons/Heal compared to traited Damage/CC.
I have no problem with follow thru after they catch up, this thread is not about that.
Healing sig/Sig of resto, comparing passives to actives doesn’t work either.
Enchanted daggers maybe, but it only last 15 sec with 30 sec cd.

The large majority of that list does in fact have counterplay… or you just said yourself, is an aoe which I agree, should not be subject to LOS as I stated in my OP.

Yes it is in fact gamebreaking.
The BROKEN GOING THRU EVADE part aside… it should still be obstructed by LOS.
On a class with only 1 or 2 condi cleanses, you need to get the endless amount of chill off then kite ASAP, if you cant kite because CORRUPT thru LOS that is kittened.

Maybe we should differentiate between the debuff and the boon corrupt.

I think it is perfectly fine that the debuff goes though LoS, dodges etc. given the fact that it does absolutly nothing unless you hit your opponent again and that the healing skill actually is total junk without the trait. The boon corrupt however should indeed be subject to LoS, dodges etc.

Teleport-to-target behind cover anyone?

HEDRO.2345:

You are comparing SELF BENEFITs/Boons/Heal compared to traited Damage/CC.

A lot of the heals listed aren’t self only. Some support allies, a number deal damage, and the dragonhunter trap can daze you. The only thing that goes through anything on this skill is the debuff and trait proc. The trait proc itself being unavoidable could be argued as an issue sure, but that’s the trait not the skill.

HEDRO.2345:

Healing sig/Sig of resto, comparing passives to actives doesn’t work either.

Don’t cherrypick “broken” mechanics then. You’re saying this doesn’t have appropriate counterplay, I listed a lot of heals that have similar levels of counterplay.

HEDRO.2345:

Enchanted daggers maybe, but it only last 15 sec with 30 sec cd.

“Only”, it lasts 2.5x longer with a lower CD (unless SoV is traited, again trait not skill).

HEDRO.2345:

The large majority of that list does in fact have counterplay… or you just said yourself, is an aoe which I agree, should not be subject to LOS as I stated in my OP.

This also has counterplay. The list has SIMILAR LEVELS of counterplay, which is generally fairly little, because almost every single defensive ability in the game (except Necromancers’) has no direct counterplay.

HEDRO.2345:

Yes it is in fact gamebreaking.
The BROKEN GOING THRU EVADE part aside… it should still be obstructed by LOS.
On a class with only 1 or 2 condi cleanses, you need to get the endless amount of chill off then kite ASAP, if you cant kite because CORRUPT thru LOS that is kittened.

If it was gamebreaking it’d be abused more, yet it isn’t. There is nothing gamebreaking about it.

Muchacho.2390:

Maybe we should differentiate between the debuff and the boon corrupt.

I think it is perfectly fine that the debuff goes though LoS, dodges etc. given the fact that it does absolutly nothing unless you hit your opponent again and that the healing skill actually is total junk without the trait. The boon corrupt however should indeed be subject to LoS, dodges etc.

I agree with this distinction.

A targeted, long-range corruption of two boons that hits through blocks, evades, invulnerable effects, and even terrain is definitely unfair. I don’t see how this is even really arguable. A good boon corrupt can potentially end a fight, which means your target needs to be given an opportunity to avoid it somehow.

A minor, limited life siphoning debuff that can attach itself to the target regardless of typical avoidance mechanics is perhaps inconsistent with how most other offensive effects function, but not unfair. After all, it’s functionally very similar to a Thief using Skelk Venom with Venomous Aura, except with less freedom in how the life siphons are applied after casting (only against this one target and only once per second per attacker).