Guild Wars 2

25 points trait.. is it a joke? 1 stack of might for 5s when hp drop to 25%? SERIOUSLY? It’s less then nothing.

It’s my nr. 1 minor trait that I hate the most. Yay, I’m about to die, and now I’ll die with 35 power and condition dmg more! It makes absolutely no sense at all and is not worthy of a 25 pointer.

I think it is the worst 25 pt minor in the game… I mean for the classes that I play it is no comparison.

25 pt minor traits almost always give you a flat damage boost or allow you to stack might in some way… Thief has all +10% damage traits, plus one that allows you to comfortably maintain about 6-10 stacks of might. Necro has a lot of +5% damage traits, one that converts a healthy portion of toughness into power, and then…

1 stack of might for 5 seconds… WHEN UNDER 25% health? And when you are struck?

I mean, what the hell are they thinking? That isn’t even worthy of a 5 or 10 pt minor trait. It is useless.

I have played a lot of 30 spite specs, both condition damage and power, and I can honestly say that I have NEVER noticed the existence of this minor trait. If it weren’t for the power of spite grand master traits, no one would even consider going more than 20 deep in spite.

Garbage trait, absolutely terrible.

Hey at least its not Reani or PotH, if fixing those into a major trait and giving us good stuff (like Shrouded removal and Reapers protection) for minors letting non MM use DM without penalty, ill gladly take Siphoned power (or plain just go 20 in spite since the best trait of the line is there).

I’d gladly switch siphoned power for any other trait. It simply doesn’t make sense.

I know this is an old post, but it’s still quite a problematic trait /_\

(from the wiki description anyway)

Andele.1306:

Hey at least its not Reani or PotH, if fixing those into a major trait and giving us good stuff (like Shrouded removal and Reapers protection) for minors letting non MM use DM without penalty, ill gladly take Siphoned power (or plain just go 20 in spite since the best trait of the line is there).

Lol both of those traits were better than siphoned power. The only reason they got more attention was because you actually noticed reanimator and it could cause problems. Also they were minion only minors whereas siphoned power is useless for every build with no discrimination.

Properly neglected, the necromancer.

Devs refrained from investing their manpower/resources on our beloved class.

I felt that Siphoned Power was a randomly generated trait. Because if any thought, no matter how little, was put into that slot, they would have realized how ridiculous it currently is.

Thief 25s: each +10% dmg
Best damage modifiers by far, but that means thiefs only role is dmg, no supportive effects.

Most others: +3 to 5% dmg overall

Necro 25 Spite – Siphoned Power- useless and counter productive.
Id say its:
+1 to 3% dmg
good for 5% of the “clutch 1v1s”

0.03 * 0.05 = 0.0015 = +0.15% Damage increse…………………. IF you hit (with long cast times and bad mechanics on necro), IN WHICH CASE the you already hit target with a 2-4k lifeblast you already win. IF NOT youre dead cz its a low 25% hp clutch fight remember? and in all others “normal” fights, the gradnmaster minor does NOTHING.

Final verdict:
+0% dmg

BAlance it to something constant, 5% constant dmg wont be too strong on power necros, cz its a hit or miss style anyway, with the miss option entirely on the hands of skilled enemys.

Make it might on crit and we have a decent trait.

If it was every single hit while under 25% it would certainly be interesting (but still not very good or practical.) It would be neat to suddenly get these huge stacks of might while in critical danger.

But as I never see my might stacks shooting up as I die, I sincerely doubt that’s how it works.

Yeah it’s pretty much a joke though.

Mega Skeleton.8259:

If it was every single hit while under 25% it would certainly be interesting (but still not very good or practical.) It would be neat to suddenly get these huge stacks of might while in critical danger.

But as I never see my might stacks shooting up as I die, I sincerely doubt that’s how it works.

Yeah it’s pretty much a joke though.

It is every hit you take while under 25% health already. Still a lousy trait due to the very short duration on said Might, but there is no ICD at all on the trait.

Really now? Fascinating. Guess I don’t notice it cause you die so fast in PVE and I don’t run that trait in PvP.

I’m imagining how crazy strong it would be if the threshold was 50% in PvP tho _

Mega Skeleton.8259:

Really now? Fascinating. Guess I don’t notice it cause you die so fast in PVE and I don’t run that trait in PvP.

I’m imagining how crazy strong it would be if the threshold was 50% in PvP tho _

Also quite problematic because you can trigger it when in Death Shroud, as long as your HP is below the threshold. Still an awful trait, but straight buffing it isn’t good either, just need to change it.

How about give might to allies on crit – the Necro version of Empowering Might (Guardian)? Or give might to allies when you gain might – the Necro version of Phalanx Strength (Warrior)? Or something new entirely like give Fury when you gain might or +150 ferocity to allies? Anything is better really.

Gain Might when you strike a foe below 33% health? Inflict Weakness on your next attack when you gain Might?

Something else that bothers me with the trait is that its current functionality is more appropriately named “masochism.”

I remember John Peters or someone talking about this trait and saying they can’t buff it because of the fact that it triggers while in DS. So in his imagination I can just sit there at <25% HP while in DS and get hit until I get to 25 might stacks. DS won’t run out, cause it infinitely recharges, and obviously if I’m at <25% HP with only DS to protect me I’m still fighting, NOT running away so I can heal up.
Warning: above paragraph may contain sarcasm.

We’ve heard the “can’t give you that because DS would make it too powerful” argument so much in the last 2 years it’s beyond comical. DS is not a cool mechanic, it’s difficult to balance, and it’s ruining the game for us. It’s time to change it already!
Not to mention that since the feature patch thre’s so much burst damage in the game that you can be literally 1-shot from >25% health quite easily, so you won’t even have time to jump into DS and build might stacks!

If they’re concerned about us being able to gain infinite might stacks, remove the HP threshold completely, and give it an ICD. So “gain X Might when struck (10” CD)" I mean kitten already!

@manver, lets be honest though, Peters has on multiple ocassions shown he has no idea what he’s talking about when it comes to Necro. This is the guy who told us to l2p because DS should be saved for when you are low HP, the guy who said it was intended that marks go on full CD when interrupted because they are some of hte strongest skills in the game, the one who said making Weakening Shroud’s weakness duration one second longer would be too strong because what if you spam flash DS.

I’d just change the trait completely though. Make the might stacking completely different, like might on crit.

Bhawb.7408:

@manver, lets be honest though, Peters has on multiple ocassions shown he has no idea what he’s talking about when it comes to Necro.

Bhawb, Is there anyone YOU know of at Anet that DOES know about Necros?

Bhawb.7408:

I’d just change the trait completely though. Make the might stacking completely different, like might on crit.

This. We dont need traits which reward bad play such as face tanking. We need traits that are offensive.

Give us warriors forceful greatsword equivalent please! It wouldnt be op for condi builds or DS builds because they have slow attack rates. It would only sufficiently boost the self buffing of dagger and axe 2. Axe is weak so it wouldnt make it over powered. Dagger puts you in a dangerous position so theres risk (PvP perspective). From a PvE stand point it would just allow necro to be a bit more self sufficient and compete with the other classes while also retaining its selfish nature. The extra might on crit would also be nice to increase might gained on DS builds (minor buff).

Essentially it primarly buffs power builds but not by too much. Our power builds need help in all gametypes. A 25 point minor is quite a high investment. Also im assuming no icd. If you add an icd you severely cap the potential of this trait and make it equal across all builds. We dont want or need it to be equal across all builds.

Shouldnt this thread be in profession balance forums?

Swamurabi.7890:

Bhawb.7408:

@manver, lets be honest though, Peters has on multiple ocassions shown he has no idea what he’s talking about when it comes to Necro.

Bhawb, Is there anyone YOU know of at Anet that DOES know about Necros?

John Chapman seems to have a better handle than most there.

@Bhawb, to be fair to Peters, the “Putrid Mark going on full CD when it’s interrupted is intentional” statement was Tyler Chapman. And yes, it was a shameless lie right to our faces and it still irks me. Up until then I had so much trust in ANet!

In fairness they dont really have a solid grasp of any class (understandable to a certain degree as they dont have the same amount of play time as some of us). But as far as im aware none of the balance team mains a necro so they dont risk buffs as much as they would on the other classes.

Im of the opinion that the players who understand the game the best are those who arent afraid to exploit the game and its mechanics. And dont care about being classed as lame or cheesy. They play to win no matter what. Unfortunately casual players and developers dont like to abuse something they feel so attached to. Which limits their perspective quite considerably.

This is probably an unpopular opinion. But if you disagree you probably fall under this category. :P

Swamurabi.7890:

Bhawb, Is there anyone YOU know of at Anet that DOES know about Necros?

Sharp seemed to at least read the forums, but I don’t know of anyone that knows Necros very well, which is true of all professions (although I think Necromancer has more weird interactions than most of the others) since ANet probably doesn’t “main” any profession like the players do (where they have thousands of hours in game, plus spend time on the forums/wiki/reddit interacting with others).

manveruppd.7601:

@Bhawb, to be fair to Peters, the “Putrid Mark going on full CD when it’s interrupted is intentional” statement was Tyler Chapman. And yes, it was a shameless lie right to our faces and it still irks me. Up until then I had so much trust in ANet!

Oh okay, my bad then.

spoj.9672:

In fairness they dont really have a solid grasp of any class (understandable to a certain degree as they dont have the same amount of play time as some of us). But as far as im aware none of the balance team mains a necro so they dont risk buffs as much as they would on the other classes.

I don’t think they don’t risk because they don’t play Necro, but because Necro is (except in PvE where they don’t balance anyway) very close to being great already. We don’t need many big buffs, and a lot of the things we are really lacking can’t be added through buffs, we need new content. Also they’ve still got a bit of fear of closed beta Necro, because our mechanics can very quickly get out of hand.

My 2 copper (36g after TP flippers get ahold of it) on siphoned power rework:

Siphoned Power
You and nearby allies gain Might (2x – 4 sec) and Vigor (4 sec) when you apply Weakness to your target.
(passive cooldown: 10 sec)
You and nearby allies gain Protection (1 sec) when you apply Vulnerability to your target.
Radius: 600
Targets: 5

Combine with a similarly reworked bloodthirst:
[Edit]
Bloodthirst
You and nearby allies gain Regeneration (2 sec) have a chance to siphon health when striking targets afflicted with Bleed. (passive cooldown 5 sec)
Radius: 600
Life Siphon damage: 300
Life Siphon healing: 250
Chance to activate: 50%
Increases power of nearby allies attacking targets afflicted with Bleed(+120) <similar to ranger’s spotter>
Radius: 600
Targets: 5
Duration: 5 sec
Interval: 3 sec

Disclaimer
Trait tier, quantities, and duration is up for discussion as always.

Gaining regeneration is worthless as a minor, we have easy access to 100% regen uptime on ourselves and allies if we want to already.

Sors Immani.8429:

Siphoned Power
You and nearby allies gain Might (2x – 4 sec) and Vigor (4 sec) when you apply Weakness to your target.
(passive cooldown: 10 sec)
You and nearby allies gain Protection (1 sec) when you apply Vulnerability to your target.
Radius: 600
Targets: 5

I actually like this.

Bhawb.7408:

Oh okay, my bad then.

No man, that was his bad. His bad entirely.

Siphoned Power is stackable while downed if you think about it. I agree it should be slightly modified might be better if they made it more useful also everyone’s thought on Spiteful Vigor should be a Vigor and not Retal? Spiteful Soul is what it should have been called.

Souldestructor.9576:

also everyone’s thought on Spiteful Vigor should be a Vigor and not Retal? Spiteful Soul is what it should have been called.

We won’t get vigor. The retal isn’t all that great either in its current form either though, and I’m not sure what to put there. If it was AoE retal that could be good, otherwise I’d probably just axe the trait and put in something new.

It seems that all of our skills/traits that are dubbed with “siphon” works by doing something negative to foes to gain advantage. Who do we siphon the power from exactly? From ourselves because reasons?

Good discussion, don’t have much to add, except. I approve of the removal of the trait. Lol.

I’d love it if we got endurance-stealing like you suggested a few months ago though!

Lets do a comparison test.

Lets say that a another trait like this was sub’d in,

!@#$%^&
When knocked less then 25% health, chill all nearby targets (3s)
300 radius
90s recharge.

Methinks this underwhelming hypothetical trait would be better then siphoned power.