Guild Wars 2

As stated above, I played Necromancer mainly in the first Guild Wars and I loved the class. I was thinking about making and play a Necromancer in Guild Wars 2 as I purchased the game today, all I want to know is whether the class in the second game is a challenging class to start with and or are they as good as they were in Guild Wars 1,

Thanks,

Hutch

Welcome to Guild Wars 2, now forget all you know about Necromancers in Guild wars 1 and start with a rinsed mind, Necromancers in Guild wars 2 are a different profession entirely. Now whether the Necromancer is any good is one of the biggest matter of debates on these forums but the general idea is that Necromancers are Great/OK in PVP and Mediocre/Bad in PvE/WvW.

Like Yendorion said, its a totally different game, and a lot is different. That isn’t to say that Necromancers have changed entirely, I still often feel like my old Necro, but the mechanics are vastly different in this game, and its not the same class.

Play Necro, see if you enjoy this one. If you do, awesome, keep playing. If you don’t, move on and see if you like something else. IMO all the classes have unique and fun mechanics to them. All of them are reasonably viable in every game mode; some might not currently have a place in the very highest of each mode, but that’s not necessarily permanent.

Challenging ? Yes (mainly because it’s an underdog class that was nerfed to the ground prior to release, but never really balanced out to remedy the large bumb on the skull left behind by the sledge hammer nerf)

As good as they are/were on GW1? Never. I often play a foul feast/plague sending curse necro, and it gives me a whole lot more satisfaction in terms of team play and individual effort than the GW2 necro does.

Nope completely different. I miss the old gw1 necro. But still enjoy playing the new necro. Although we are terrible for high level end game pve. If you try necro and dont like it i recommend the mesmer. They are currently one of the tier 1 classes in pve and very strong in pvp aswell. Gw2 mesmer is very different aswell but its actually a decent and well designed class.

No class revolving around AI is decent, let alone deserving to be deemed ‘well-designed’.

KarlaGrey.5903:

No class revolving around AI is decent, let alone deserving to be deemed ‘well-designed’.

Is that a reply to my post? Clone AI is fine. And mesmers are probably in the best state over all classes in all gametypes at the moment.

Oh my.
I guess I should have added ‘in pvp’.

The only classes that revolve around AI are Rangers and Mesmers, both of which have primary mechanics that rely on AI, and both of which are incredibly common on competitive teams for their strength in the current meta. Everyone else has, at most, optional AI summons.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Oh my.
I guess I should have added ‘in pvp’.

Point still stands. Mesmers are one of the strongest classes in pvp and pve and their clone AI is fine.

Just play it and don’t expect the same from GW1. It’s miles different. Hope you’ll like it tho.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Oh my.
I guess I should have added ‘in pvp’.

Mesmers still rip other classes a new one if the mesmer knows what they are doing.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Oh my.
I guess I should have added ‘in pvp’.

Mesmers are arguably the strongest class in PvP… Either you left something else out or you know less about PvP than I know about the geological formations of Venus…

I’m afraid you missed the point.

KarlaGrey.5903:

I’m afraid you missed the point.

It’s harder to hit a moving target.

spoj.9672:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Oh my.
I guess I should have added ‘in pvp’.

Point still stands. Mesmers are one of the strongest classes in pvp and pve and their clone AI is fine.

Ai is fine since they are set on our dear GW1 minion kill everything within range thats bigger than if every chinese person would make a Conga line, pathing still isnt (but that aint such a problem since they are like acne on the forehead of a teen girl, they continually spawn in masses and go away just as fast).

KarlaGrey.5903:

I’m afraid you missed the point.

So whats your point? Please clarify.

Every time someone uses the word ‘different’ just replace it with ‘worse’.

ex: Afya: "Just play it and don’t expect the same from GW1. It’s miles worse. Hope you’ll like it tho.

Jokes aside, if you want to play like a minion master(which is probably why you picked Necro to start with) you will be very disappointed. Even if you ignore any AI problems the mere fact you must give up so much utility to even have minions is a big problem. Then you have just stupid issues like your Flesh Golem elite not being able to be used underwater, therefor he instant dies when you touch water. Then your other 2 elites kill all your minions on activation pretty much punishing you for using them in the first place. And lets not forget the no OOC healing, that forces you to either go into combat with damaged minions or making you switch skills off of minions then back to be allowed to resummon them.
All in all, a VERY poorly designed class. Maybe thats not accurate. The class isnt poorly designed. Its skills, traits and class mechanic where just poorly designed.

I too came into GW2 expecting the necro to be like the GW1 necro.

My point was that classes whose core is designed around AI are by definition bad design, because AI has little place in any competitive game, bar as NPCs, and will always be either under or overperforming, simply because it is AI.
The point of pvp is to fight vs real players, not pets. Pet builds can be an alternative, but they most definitely do not belong to core class design.
There is a good reason why GW2 rangers and mesmers are one of the most problematic classes.

KarlaGrey.5903:

My point was that classes whose core is designed around AI are by definition bad design, because AI has little place in any competitive game, bar as NPCs, and will always be either under or overperforming, simply because it is AI.
The point of pvp is to fight vs real players, not pets. Pet builds can be an alternative, but they most definitely do not belong to core class design.
There is a good reason why GW2 rangers and mesmers are one of the most problematic classes.

But mesmers arent one of the most problematic classes. I agree with your point when talking about rangers, necro minions and guardian spirit weapons. But clones have such simple AI, you can pretty much completely ignore that they have any AI at all.

So the only minion class is better when played without minions?

Cempa.5619:

So the only minion class is better when played without minions?

Yes. Minion AI is terrible and you’re missing out on much better utilites when you take minions.

There’s some necro hate going on here. I’ve been running my necro for ~5-7 months now(pretty much since release) and my build destroys people in PvE/WvW and tPvP. I also use this toon to command in WvW. Maybe I’m just an odd ball? I completely love the Necro. haha.

KarlaGrey.5903:

My point was that classes whose core is designed around AI are by definition bad design, because AI has little place in any competitive game, bar as NPCs, and will always be either under or overperforming, simply because it is AI.
The point of pvp is to fight vs real players, not pets. Pet builds can be an alternative, but they most definitely do not belong to core class design.
There is a good reason why GW2 rangers and mesmers are one of the most problematic classes.

Actually, since the recent changes, minion-necro is viable, if not necessarily the best thing ever…

And Mesmers aren’t problematic because they have minions. They’re problematic cause they have just about anything. Ranger is only problematic because ANet is being stubborn.

Personally I hate minions (unless they’re the very temporary and spammable kind, like mesmer’s), but AI can be used in a competitive setting. Whether the AI in GW is appropriate enough for it, on the other hand, is another issue entirely.

Prepare to be utterly disappointed.

Necro minions are underperforming, while mesmer and ranger pets are overperforming – homing misiles that are mesmer clones, and pet hitting like a truck while its master is bunker specced..?
Sounds like a stronk pvp game.

And yes, the issues with the mesmer are complex, but the reliance on AI is a big part of them.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Necro minions are underperforming, while mesmer and ranger pets are overperforming – homing misiles that are mesmer clones, and pet hitting like a truck while its master is bunker specced..?
Sounds like a stronk pvp game.

And yes, the issues with the mesmer are complex, but the reliance on AI is a big part of them.

In both cases it’s not the use of AI that’s the problem.

One of the mesmer’s issues is how much damage is allocated to the phantasms, so it is possible for the mesmer to disregard direct damage (for instances using their time to run away or be a nuisance) and still hit like a truck.

In the Ranger’s case it is because the pets don’t scale with the owner’s stats, so you can go full bunker, focus on you staying alive as much as possible, and have your pet do the damage.

As for Necro minions, I forget which tournament it was recently where someone ran a minion build and showed it works quite decently. Especially in Khylo where they nearly insta-gib the trebuchet.

As I said, designing pets without having them either over- or underperform is hard, and Anet shouldn’t be wasting time on that. But the damage is done, and they will eventually have to do something to fix it.

And yea, minions work ok on stationary targets, I suppose (it’s the golem charge that is owning the treb, right?

Newbkakes.4971:

There’s some necro hate going on here. I’ve been running my necro for ~5-7 months now(pretty much since release) and my build destroys people in PvE/WvW and tPvP. I also use this toon to command in WvW. Maybe I’m just an odd ball? I completely love the Necro. haha.

Does it?? Do you have a youtube channel full of proof?! Otherwise you’re a drunk troll who plays [insert profession here] who wants the Necro to keep eating dirt & dung.

KarlaGrey.5903:

As I said, designing pets without having them either over- or underperform is hard, and Anet shouldn’t be wasting time on that. But the damage is done, and they will eventually have to do something to fix it.

And yea, minions work ok on stationary targets, I suppose (it’s the golem charge that is owning the treb, right?

Yes. An MM is, to my knowledge, the strongest treb killer simply because once you get the minions on the treb, Golem Charge + Putrid Explosions is over half the treb’s HP. You should be able to take out treb against at least 2 people as an MM.

Loved necromancer in GW1, especially saccer/contagion bomber in Jade Quarry (maybe that is why I had so many deaths). Took me this long to make one in GW2, that is for keeps. Made exclusively for WvW, since that is only thing that I do in game now. Even though there are not that many necromancer in WvW, but I think there is many viable options for necromancer in WvW.

I have created life… of a sort.