Guild Wars 2

So ummh.. yea Topic says it all. Something ive been wondering since i started playing gw2 a month ago. and for what ive seen im ussaly one of the best on my team both pve and pvp so… Did i miss something? is it just the build and armor im rolling that rocks? is it beacuse 80 % of us are kittens?

you’re honestly gonna take anything people like that say to heart?

they usually have no bloody clue, just ignore them

For PvE, Necros don’t offer all that much for the group while having mediocre dps, which is why they’re not really sought after.

Three reasons:

1. Reaper is on the lower end of skill floor. To be completely honest, you don’t have to be that great of a player to have a decent performance as a Reaper.

2. The counter to Reaper is not so much a build as it is tactics. Lower skilled players see Reaper as overpowered because they haven’t figured out how to take on an opponent in anything outside of a straight-up brawl, which Reaper is designed to be absurd in. Any profession can beat a Reaper, but it does take thinking.

3. Necros as a whole throw a monkey wrench in how people like to play. From neutering healing with poison and screwing up rotations entirely with Chill to laughing at your Stability and Protection that you were relying on. Necros force people to change their play by screwing with them. People hate being weakened in games, and Necros are the kings of debuffing (always have been, even across games).

@drarnor has it spot on as far as PvP is concerned. There isn;t realy a dedicated BUILD to countering a reaper. So there isn’t one particular build style aside from maybe scrapper than can go toe to toe with it assuming the necro has life force. Tempests can hold out quite a bit and kill necros that start the fight without Life force however.

Reaper is fairly easy to get into and have a basic level of success with. Thats not saying its OP or that its unskillfull. Reaper has ALOT of room for skill growth. Its just that the most basic level of proficiency with the class gets decent results. Alot like playing a ranger in PvE. High skill cap. But reaching that skill cap isn’t necessary in order to be successful.

His third point is possibly the most accurate. Fighting a reaper simply isn’t FUN for many players. When fighting most builds its about putting your strongest versus there strongest.

With reapers they take AWAY your strengths in order to utilize your THEIR strengths. This means you quite often CAN’T fight a reaper like you would the other classes…even revenant. Corrupts, Chill, Weakness, Blind. These are a necros toys when it comes to PvP. All of which are designed quite litteraly to prevent your opponent from fighting back. Which is EXTREMELY frustrating if your the opponent. As it means your often playing cat and mouse until you can CC the reaper long enough to land a high enough amount of damage.

Its about numbers of reapers.There are millions of reapers in spvp.Reaper is now exploited by noobs.Bad players can be decent bcs its about easy and noskilled gameplay and 99% of people have that stupid signet build.I play necro like main for 3,5 years and i started hate reaper too,im more and more dissapointed.

Most experienced players are very comfortable with loading up on boons and remember how difficult Necromancers had it in all game modes. The recent improvements to Necromancer / Reaper feels unfair. Necromancer used to be easier (if not just plain easy) targets before Reaper came out.

Necromancer is not OP and is not even in the top few professions but it is not dead last by a wide margin anymore, either.

Minion Master is also very easy to play compared to other professions with substandard pets. MM is definitely easy to get into, though high end PvP takes more skill.

HoT throws a lot of conditions at players maining other jobs used to just mashing buttons for an easy victory in PvE and forces them to build more conservatively while Necromancer suffers a lot less and seems more capable in comparison.

I played a Necro with no minions before HoT came out, and for a quite a while after. I could run around in the Mad King’s Labyrinth and solo pretty much everything that wasn’t one the Big boss npcs in there. I actually get yelled at on map chat cuz there was a organized group on the other side of the map (didn’t notice), who were upset I was soloing the doors in there, and this is with not that much experience playing the class (lots of tomes were used in the making of that lvl 80 necro).

It’s a tanky class (with basically two lifebars), it can dish out a lot of damage at multiple ranges (power or condi), and with the blood magic line it can self heal very effectively. It can turn other people’s boons into a liability, forcing people to rethink buffing with boons, which hoses up all other builds, and putting conditions on them just gives them more ammo.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Three reasons:

1. Reaper is on the lower end of skill floor. To be completely honest, you don’t have to be that great of a player to have a decent performance as a Reaper.

2. The counter to Reaper is not so much a build as it is tactics. Lower skilled players see Reaper as overpowered because they haven’t figured out how to take on an opponent in anything outside of a straight-up brawl, which Reaper is designed to be absurd in. Any profession can beat a Reaper, but it does take thinking.

3. Necros as a whole throw a monkey wrench in how people like to play. From neutering healing with poison and screwing up rotations entirely with Chill to laughing at your Stability and Protection that you were relying on. Necros force people to change their play by screwing with them. People hate being weakened in games, and Necros are the kings of debuffing (always have been, even across games).

See this is where you people loose me. 1st of i dont get what you elitist guild wars players always have the same problems 1. you think beacuse something is easy its not fun, and i dont get that, im not gonna give up my favourite class that i enjoy very simply put more of the way it looks and feels but for people like this im a noob beacuse im playing a diffrent class they dont enjoy as much or find as challegin as their mains. and i do think Us Reapers are op at alot of things but the thing i see most as reaper mainer is people who just get up in my face and thats how we chew trough you. when i finnaly come up against someone who knows how to actually play their class i get destroyed just as easily as anyone else,

First you dindt want us in pve beacuse we dont have any support cababilities and know youre trying to push us out of pvp beacuse we finnaly got the buff we deserved, a quick newsflash when we invetabel get nerfed another class is gonna take its place as the apex preadetor and all the noobs and eletists who just want the best and the best goes to that one. Im sorry if this comes off as a kind of assholish post but i strongly dissagre my favourite class being put back at the bottom of the food chain beacuse idiots give us a bad name.

ScarecrowHD.4120:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Three reasons:

1. Reaper is on the lower end of skill floor. To be completely honest, you don’t have to be that great of a player to have a decent performance as a Reaper.

2. The counter to Reaper is not so much a build as it is tactics. Lower skilled players see Reaper as overpowered because they haven’t figured out how to take on an opponent in anything outside of a straight-up brawl, which Reaper is designed to be absurd in. Any profession can beat a Reaper, but it does take thinking.

3. Necros as a whole throw a monkey wrench in how people like to play. From neutering healing with poison and screwing up rotations entirely with Chill to laughing at your Stability and Protection that you were relying on. Necros force people to change their play by screwing with them. People hate being weakened in games, and Necros are the kings of debuffing (always have been, even across games).

See this is where you people loose me. 1st of i dont get what you elitist guild wars players always have the same problems 1. you think beacuse something is easy its not fun, and i dont get that, im not gonna give up my favourite class that i enjoy very simply put more of the way it looks and feels but for people like this im a noob beacuse im playing a diffrent class they dont enjoy as much or find as challegin as their mains. and i do think Us Reapers are op at alot of things but the thing i see most as reaper mainer is people who just get up in my face and thats how we chew trough you. when i finnaly come up against someone who knows how to actually play their class i get destroyed just as easily as anyone else,

First you dindt want us in pve beacuse we dont have any support cababilities and know youre trying to push us out of pvp beacuse we finnaly got the buff we deserved, a quick newsflash when we invetabel get nerfed another class is gonna take its place as the apex preadetor and all the noobs and eletists who just want the best and the best goes to that one. Im sorry if this comes off as a kind of assholish post but i strongly dissagre my favourite class being put back at the bottom of the food chain beacuse idiots give us a bad name.

First dranor isn’t an elitist when it comes to necromancer, he’s a realist and I’ve seen him on these forums advocating for necromancer buffs to support GW2 Group Play philosophy since I started 2 years ago.

Second. You are right that people are treating reaper’s almost like normal necromancers. But PvP is all about getting and holding a point as long as you can, so people HAVE to get in your melee range to fight you for point, or burst you down before you go shroud and start wrecking. Sure you can range em but then you’re not in point contesting, meaning the enemy is getting points if you can’t force the reaper off and get in point.

Third, and this is what I was most afraid of, reaper and necromancer boon corruption was taken up and over the top last patch. The reason was to help counteract the boon spam that had creeped into the game over the years. Class that rely on boons like ele and revenant of course are our natural enemies, and we can potentially not just shut them down, but turn their very prescence into a hinders be for their team. We are now the top of the food chain, and you know what happened to the last top guy? He got nerfed so hard he’s still seeing stars.

Finally, most of what I mentioned is PvP related but since ANET insist on doing most of their balancing around PvP (bar exceptions like burn zerker), that is where one must focus their attention. And even still we don’t have much if any team support except in debuffs like weakness which are negated by The breakbar….Oi I do apologize, really don’t mean to sound hostile and that’s not a mocking jab at you. I’m kinda just fed up with ANET and the state the game is in, and am really really worried about the rates of reaper and revenant with all the qqing going on and remembering what happened to mesmers.

ScarecrowHD.4120:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Three reasons:

1. Reaper is on the lower end of skill floor. To be completely honest, you don’t have to be that great of a player to have a decent performance as a Reaper.

2. The counter to Reaper is not so much a build as it is tactics. Lower skilled players see Reaper as overpowered because they haven’t figured out how to take on an opponent in anything outside of a straight-up brawl, which Reaper is designed to be absurd in. Any profession can beat a Reaper, but it does take thinking.

3. Necros as a whole throw a monkey wrench in how people like to play. From neutering healing with poison and screwing up rotations entirely with Chill to laughing at your Stability and Protection that you were relying on. Necros force people to change their play by screwing with them. People hate being weakened in games, and Necros are the kings of debuffing (always have been, even across games).

See this is where you people loose me. 1st of i dont get what you elitist guild wars players always have the same problems 1. you think beacuse something is easy its not fun, and i dont get that, im not gonna give up my favourite class that i enjoy very simply put more of the way it looks and feels but for people like this im a noob beacuse im playing a diffrent class they dont enjoy as much or find as challegin as their mains. and i do think Us Reapers are op at alot of things but the thing i see most as reaper mainer is people who just get up in my face and thats how we chew trough you. when i finnaly come up against someone who knows how to actually play their class i get destroyed just as easily as anyone else,

First you dindt want us in pve beacuse we dont have any support cababilities and know youre trying to push us out of pvp beacuse we finnaly got the buff we deserved, a quick newsflash when we invetabel get nerfed another class is gonna take its place as the apex preadetor and all the noobs and eletists who just want the best and the best goes to that one. Im sorry if this comes off as a kind of assholish post but i strongly dissagre my favourite class being put back at the bottom of the food chain beacuse idiots give us a bad name.

I’m not sure why you started losing your mind over his post, but not only is he completely correct, but nowhere in his post did he say anything about us needing nerfs or “being put back on the bottom”. To be fair though, Necromancer is not an easy class, it is simply easy to do damage with.

Hahaha i went off topic a bit was really not directed at the dude above. im sure hes a nice guy and all.

‘’I do apologize, really don’t mean to sound hostile and that’s not a mocking jab at you’’

Lmao, no big deal, we all good here.

Zero Solstice.9754:

Lmao, no big deal, we all good here.

Yeah my post is a bit in the drama department, and Scarecrow is right in his post. Just I am really afraid Reaper and necro will go back to trash tier given recent events and ANET’s balancing philosophy. I just think we were overturned last patch and as such got our heads in the chopping block.

It’s the fact that we can use as much deodorant and fabreeze as we want, and it still won’t cover up the smell… We’re necromancers, after all.

~EW

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

For PvE, Necros don’t offer all that much for the group while having mediocre dps, which is why they’re not really sought after.

you can hit over 20k dps on condi reaper, by no means is it mediocre

I’m … slightly late to the party, and I don’t have Heart of Thorns. I play an Asura and the -last- one I played was a thief and uh, didn’t go very far. My framerate frequently tanks and I lag like you wouldn’t believe (yay internet).

So um, I like the necromancer class. o.o I run around with 3 minions, admittedly, but it’s nice to be able to get mostly out of the firing line of the majority of enemies and still walk out of it relatively unscathed. Though, to do that, I have healing items all over the place and rarely use the ‘life force’ thing unless I’m in really close range melee, can’t escape and have one hit and I’m deads worth of life left in me.

But … it’s nice, to wander around places 2+ levels under the minimum and only struggle a -little- bit rather than be constantly broke because waypoints are expensive.

TheLastNobody.8319:

The reason was to help counteract the boon spam that had creeped into the game over the years. Class that rely on boons like ele and revenant of course are our natural enemies, and we can potentially not just shut them down, but turn their very prescence into a hinders be for their team.

I keep seeming people say that boon corrupt counters boon spam, but honestly I think that’s totally backwards.

Boon Corrupt is stronger against classes with moderate to low boon generation because the low amounts of boons allows me to target specific boons, and the boons that get corrupted are much harder to replace.
However against things like boonspam ele or Scrapper, boon corrupt is far less effective because the sheer quantity of boons prevents me from targeting specific boons and the boons that I do corrupt are easily replaced within seconds.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Three reasons:

1. Reaper is on the lower end of skill floor. To be completely honest, you don’t have to be that great of a player to have a decent performance as a Reaper.

[/quote]
The differences between skill floors on classes in this game in marginal at best. Outside of differences in APM requirement most of the classes in this game are fairly basic to play.
Nearly all of the skill requirements in this game come from having to read complex combat situations that have enormous amounts of interlocking mechanics and telegraphs.

3. Necros as a whole throw a monkey wrench in how people like to play. From neutering healing with poison and screwing up rotations entirely with Chill to laughing at your Stability and Protection that you were relying on. Necros force people to change their play by screwing with them. People hate being weakened in games, and Necros are the kings of debuffing (always have been, even across games).

As a random aside, I really think that stability should be a effect and not a boon. Stability is one of those things that should be consistant in order to maintain good quality of life.
Besides outside of stability, boon corrupts are not massive game changers, and typically only have marginal effects on the outcome of a fight, meanwhile a stability corrupt can often singlehandedly turn a fight around.

Crinn.7864:

TheLastNobody.8319:

The reason was to help counteract the boon spam that had creeped into the game over the years. Class that rely on boons like ele and revenant of course are our natural enemies, and we can potentially not just shut them down, but turn their very prescence into a hinders be for their team.

I keep seeming people say that boon corrupt counters boon spam, but honestly I think that’s totally backwards.

Boon Corrupt is stronger against classes with moderate to low boon generation because the low amounts of boons allows me to target specific boons, and the boons that get corrupted are much harder to replace.
However against things like boonspam ele or Scrapper, boon corrupt is far less effective because the sheer quantity of boons prevents me from targeting specific boons and the boons that I do corrupt are easily replaced within seconds.

There’s a post in the “necro is too op” thread that shows how much boon corrupt we have. I don’t think this is that much of an issue. So long as you intelligently cycle through your boon corrupt abilities so you always have one off cd, you should be fine.

Core of the issue is people don’t like condi’s. While it’s true other classes could cancer it up, you could always cancer back. But with necros, condi’s don’t work on us, because we just send them right back. It’s a double whammy issue with necros, so people hate us x2.

On top of that, we corrupt boons, and people hate having their boons corrupted. Because again, core of the issue is people don’t like condi’s.

This issue dates back to Everquest/WoW days, the same anti condi sentiments were seen with EQ’s necromancers and WoW’s warlocks. People just dislike condi/dots in general, and condi gameplay was always viewed as “no skill” type of gameplay where you lay dots and kite away.

This is why when power/signet necros were the preferred build, nobody complained much about necros. But now that condi is the preferred build and you’re actually gimping yourself for not running condi/scepter, the outrage is inevitable.

I personally prefer power gameplay, condi is kind of lame and I’m not proud kiting around while spreading cancer. But I’m 100% onboard now with reaper condi builds because Anet made it that way. They’ve made it so if you don’t play condi, you are hurting yourself and your teammates. Let’s not forget power reaper vs condi reaper, the condi reaper is going to have an advantage any day. Nobody likes to die to their own class.

This is why I’ve always said, I don’t mind if they nerf condi reapers. But they sure as heck better buff power reaper builds because power builds don’t compete well right now. Especially so with how inadequate GS is in PvP.

Play ranked arena for 5 games and turf the professions you encounter. Big chance you will fight anywhere between 10 and 18 reapers. Imagine how you feel after crossing 4 division, pretty sure it’s resembling some form of hate towards reapers. The top dog gets the hate, just look at bunker mesmer.

With reapers, at heart of the problem they are to easy to play and still absolutely wreck in pvp. Mastering them like noscoc isn’t necessary. Good example, I instructed 2 friends for 3 minutes on how to play reaper. They went from loss streaks on their main characters to frequent winstreaks. Are they OP ? In any organized fights hell no. In ranked they are as OP as they come.

DutchRiders.2871:

Are they OP ? In any organized fights hell no. In ranked they are as OP as they come.

This is redundant, as Ranked more or less embodies organized fights (at least at high tiers). With that said, a better revision to your statement would be “Are they OP? In areas where opponents are competent, no.”

They hate us cause they ain’t us

Also, imo chilled is too strong.
Not because Reapers can trait it to do damage, but rather the fact that chilled tripples cooldowns and that Reapers can maintain a very high uptime even against classes with frequent cleansing.

Now I haven’t read EVERYTHING, but I will point out something…blood magic line and bring a staff in with you, use minions with the poison cloud on death. Groups will love you.
The amount of healing you can bring for a group is surprisingly high even without +heal, and the minions act as breakers so the rest of your team can play sloppier. I was doing this BEFORE the minion boost.

Doing the same thing only with wells is equally as usefull to groups. Especially in team fights in sPvP. Neverending blind is lovely.

As for the Reaper…it is called a TANK for a reason people. If you play in it’s influence you will get destroyed. There is nothing at all overpowered about a reaper, and frankly most reaper players leave the cap points to chase people. Bleed em and poison em and watch them fall as they chase your tail.
If you rely on boons in sPvP you are an idiot. Every team has a necromancer it seems, I main a necro and it may surprise you that I do NOT use reaper for my PvP build. I generally go the harasser/healer route and find the other teams booner and utterly destroy it repeatedly.

@Crinn, no stability should remain a buff specifically so that people have to use it properly. The old way of stability was to put it on right as you collided with the enemy. These days you use it seconds before the attack hits you. If you are relying on stability to always be there you aren’t doing it right and deserve the beatdown. The “you” in this case is generic, not you personally.

Many have problems with condition based builds, always have, across EVERY genre. Even FPS games have had various DoT capabilities that people always whine about. People don’t like having to keep track of what is hitting them, only that they are dead or not. While I have complained about conditions from time to time as well (usually when any dev team creates a “burst condition” that rather goes against what a condition/ DoT is meant to be) but they make players better and think more.

Anyone whining about chill…use cleanses, bring cleanses, build for cleanses. You WILL be facing a necromancer out there, not including utilities that add to survivability is your own kitten fault (revenant not-withstanding as they have little choice in the matter).

Zero Solstice.9754:

DutchRiders.2871:

Are they OP ? In any organized fights hell no. In ranked they are as OP as they come.

This is redundant, as Ranked more or less embodies organized fights (at least at high tiers). With that said, a better revision to your statement would be “Are they OP? In areas where opponents are competent, no.”

It is only redundant if ranked is truely organized, now more often than not ranked is unorganized on high and low tiers alike. It has nothing to do with players being incompetent or not. So no your revision makes no sense. Reapers are OP in most of the matches in which the bulk of the playerbase participates, hence reapers usually can get away with being sub par at pvp and still wreck.

we cleave in style

bearshaman.3421:

I played a Necro with no minions before HoT came out, and for a quite a while after. I could run around in the Mad King’s Labyrinth and solo pretty much everything that wasn’t one the Big boss npcs in there. I actually get yelled at on map chat cuz there was a organized group on the other side of the map (didn’t notice), who were upset I was soloing the doors in there, and this is with not that much experience playing the class (lots of tomes were used in the making of that lvl 80 necro).

It’s a tanky class (with basically two lifebars), it can dish out a lot of damage at multiple ranges (power or condi), and with the blood magic line it can self heal very effectively. It can turn other people’s boons into a liability, forcing people to rethink buffing with boons, which hoses up all other builds, and putting conditions on them just gives them more ammo.

This. My reaper (not even fully unlocked at the time) tore that labyrinth a new one. I was quite fond of soloing the undead lich.

PvE-wise, Reaper doesn’t offer much in group situations for support/healing. They’re kind of a “selfish” profession in that regard, and before the reaper specialization and changes to condition damage, they didn’t seem to have the DPS potential of the other professions. While they weren’t weak or useless, they just didn’t bring anything more useful to the table at that time. Now, they can at least hit very hard, but still don’t do much more than that.

PvP wise, they can come off as quite powerful if one doesn’t know their abilities or simply doesn’t try to counteract or prepare for them. However, they still have less mobility/defenses, and if caught without sufficient life force they can be easily beaten.

Nilkemia.8507:

PvE-wise, Reaper doesn’t offer much in group situations for support/healing.

Doesn’t the blood magic traitline help others with all the life steal? I don’t have a good gauge for how much that helps everyone else (all the vampiric stuff). I’ve used it (and it was helpful to me) but no idea how well it helps others.

My 2c:

In PvE, people hate(d) on Necro because it was, what I have seen referred to as a “debuff tank.” Through usage of boon denial and conversion, and some of the more debilitating conditions(fear, poison, weakness, cripple) we, in theory, could tank content in much the same way as a boon-reliant guardian, just we weaken the target instead of buffing the team. At least that was the theory.

In reality, the defiant boon rendered the entire concept behind the necromancer class all but useless for PvE, but they couldn’t rebalance our abilities around that because of the other side.

The other side: PvP. In PvP we were, and remain, a hard counter to the arguably most common(and most commonly referred to as OP) classes in the game. With boon conversion and condition-redirection we could turn the very power of their boon-reliant classes in a weakness. This is why the necro forum has, and will always get, tons of eles in here complaining that necro is “ridiculously OP” for the last 3 years.

They hated when we were useless. Now, they hate us due to our power.

I don’t care if they hate us. Their hate is my joy. Their tears my precious drink.

But, there is an unavoidable truth: Nerf is always coming!

Reapers have an extremely low skill floor and are very powerful right from the start. Doesn’t take a genius to stand on point and drop unblockable marks -> reaper shroud aoe skills.

As my anecdotal evidence for how absurdly easy Reaper is right now, I was on a 6 game losing streak as Engi/Theif last night. I got fed up with all the Reapers I was seeing, decided if I cant beat them then I should just join them. Proceeded to win 6 in a row as reaper and make Diamond. I am not a good Reaper, there is no reason it should have been so easy to win like that.

I hate seeing posts like this because in the end we may be doing well in PvP but I can tell you outright it is not the case in PvE, there are many things we lack in that respect. It pretty much is going to set us up to be nerfed back to the stone age because PvP’er’s are the worst bunch of whiners in gaming.

Anet needs to stop screwing around and split these skills, they’ve done it in the past and it needs to happen again because we don’t deserve being pushed back into the toilet because of one play type again, we were there for 3 years.