Guild Wars 2

Heyo guys, I was quite sad when I found out that anet nerfed DC, but after playing around with it a bit I was rather surprised. It’s actually pretty decent and at times better than the old DC (but usually not).

1. Now I was wondering what builds you guys have come up with to synergize with this ‘new’ trait.

My own build uses Krait runes and wanderers amulet with curses to maximize bleed duration and damage. So far it has gone very well!

Build link: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLhZ6kZTocTsbTwvGgeTscMYR9stVAI+G+DLiULhnwsC-TZhHABAfCAG4QAAwTAAk9H8uMAA

As you can see I use shouts and so far that has gone very well. Rise is amazing and suffer really helps vs all the condi chrono’s.

2. This got me thinking tho… what if I used reaper runes? This would mean that all my four shouts would apply 1 second chill and another 10 second bleed stack… IN AOE! This seemed like a pretty good combo but I haven’t tested it yet.

This would be the build I think I would choose then: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLhZ6kZTocTsbTwvGgeTsgLYUph2wzKuK2FHjQXtAwBA-TphHAB0XGAgHAAwnAg13fYgDBgAHBAA

3. So yea, that’s what I think of the changes. Let me know if you have found any good working builds and/or have tested the deathly chill + reaper runes combo

o/

-Hollts

Maybe it’s just me but don’t you think that using reaper runes is a huge loss of condi damage? You lose 175 condi damage and some condi duration. Yes, condi duration may not be the most usefull thing in an envionment where there is ton of condi clear but 175 condi damage is like 10% of your overall condi damage. This ought to kinda hurt your efficiency.

The question then is more : is it worth it?

After trying a few condition damage builds in HoT over the weekend, I just could not get results that equaled a power build in dps or sustainability.

Scepter works far better in 1v1 than in 1Vmany but, except for Epidemic, condition damage utilities, and shroud, do not feel like they work well with scepter.

Epidemic is useless 1v1, though. Maybe it needs to add 3 bleeds to the target regardless of whether any other opponents are around for the cloning.

I have played condi shout last season with great success, and currently playing a fun hybrid condi/power/support build
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fgw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FvRAQNBLhZ6kZTodTsbTwcTgeTs0NYxLwKYGc6BsxCAUfgRwhC-TpQWAB7WGAg9HAA

(note: Sage has condi main and healing minor unlike what the website says)

I think condi reaper is by no mean bad (I am just surprise to see Hollts advertising for it)

:P power reaper isn’t as good anymore in PvP…. stability nerf (#3 in RS) makes it way harder to play in CC spam PvP.

Power reaper is still my bae is WvW tho

Its just too much effort to try to fix DC that you end up losing out on a lot of stuff. Like taking Reaper runes and Shouts dumps on other important parts of the build.

Bhawb.7408:

Its just too much effort to try to fix DC that you end up losing out on a lot of stuff. Like taking Reaper runes and Shouts dumps on other important parts of the build.

Yes, after trying a number of bleeding Reaper builds, I just was not satisfied with the results compared to various power builds.

I like the concept of bleed damage to chilled foes but the nerf feels like it put Bleeding Reaper below regular Necromancer, which is solidly below other professions both in dps and burst.

This whole thing reminds me of Dhuumfire so much! First, give Necromancer a shiny condition damage build. Then nerf some other condition damage sources like fear and bleed. After that, nerf Dhuumfire into oblivion and leave everything else nerfed turning Necro into a power-based profession.

Been watching this thread as I just haven’t been able to figure this out without going back to a power build.

Think I’ll give it another shot tonight. I slapped my tempest in condi gear for fun and the near instant and ridiculous 7k burn ticks were just stupid crazy.

Glad some are apparently able to make it work. Everything I’ve tried just made me feel like other classes have much better options.

Holl.3109:

:P power reaper isn’t as good anymore in PvP…. stability nerf (#3 in RS) makes it way harder to play in CC spam PvP.

Power reaper is still my bae is WvW tho

Nothing has changed for power reaper in Pvp. You talk like rs3 is the only thing carrying power reaper. This is why I discredit all your videos and pretty much all info you put out.

Jelzouki.4128:

Holl.3109:

:P power reaper isn’t as good anymore in PvP…. stability nerf (#3 in RS) makes it way harder to play in CC spam PvP.

Power reaper is still my bae is WvW tho

Nothing has changed for power reaper in Pvp. You talk like rs3 is the only thing carrying power reaper. This is why I discredit all your videos and pretty much all info you put out.

Guys like this make the forum great. He specified that the power reaper wasn’t as good and then gave clear identification as to why. So your troll post has 0 value. If I told you my apple wasn’t as big because I took a bite would you yell at me that I still had an apple? You said nothing has changed for power reaper, technically rs3 changing is one thing lol. He didn’t say that was the only thing carrying it either, but did mention losing it has an effect. So in reply, in the infamous words of you “I discredit” your post :-)

jokesonme.4082:

Jelzouki.4128:

Holl.3109:

:P power reaper isn’t as good anymore in PvP…. stability nerf (#3 in RS) makes it way harder to play in CC spam PvP.

Power reaper is still my bae is WvW tho

Nothing has changed for power reaper in Pvp. You talk like rs3 is the only thing carrying power reaper. This is why I discredit all your videos and pretty much all info you put out.

Guys like this make the forum great. He specified that the power reaper wasn’t as good and then gave clear identification as to why. So your troll post has 0 value. If I told you my apple wasn’t as big because I took a bite would you yell at me that I still had an apple? You said nothing has changed for power reaper, technically rs3 changing is one thing lol. He didn’t say that was the only thing carrying it either, but did mention losing it has an effect. So in reply, in the infamous words of you “I discredit” your post :-)

Technically yes, one thing has changed. You got me. Such smart much wow. The point is, the nerf to rs3 wasn’t something that would kill the spec, and any competent necro main could make that observation.

Jelzouki.4128:

jokesonme.4082:

Jelzouki.4128:

Holl.3109:

:P power reaper isn’t as good anymore in PvP…. stability nerf (#3 in RS) makes it way harder to play in CC spam PvP.

Power reaper is still my bae is WvW tho

Nothing has changed for power reaper in Pvp. You talk like rs3 is the only thing carrying power reaper. This is why I discredit all your videos and pretty much all info you put out.

Guys like this make the forum great. He specified that the power reaper wasn’t as good and then gave clear identification as to why. So your troll post has 0 value. If I told you my apple wasn’t as big because I took a bite would you yell at me that I still had an apple? You said nothing has changed for power reaper, technically rs3 changing is one thing lol. He didn’t say that was the only thing carrying it either, but did mention losing it has an effect. So in reply, in the infamous words of you “I discredit” your post :-)

Technically yes, one thing has changed. You got me. Such smart much wow. The point is, the nerf to rs3 wasn’t something that would kill the spec, and any competent necro main could make that observation.

While it doesnt kill necro, its still a quite noticeable nerf

This is what I’ve been running since the nerf.

Feels pretty good.

I’ve been using mercenary with krait runes, S/D + Staff and curses/sr/reap traitlines….I love it, pretty durable and pumps out loads of damage and condis

Jelzouki.4128:

Holl.3109:

:P power reaper isn’t as good anymore in PvP…. stability nerf (#3 in RS) makes it way harder to play in CC spam PvP.

Power reaper is still my bae is WvW tho

Nothing has changed for power reaper in Pvp. You talk like rs3 is the only thing carrying power reaper. This is why I discredit all your videos and pretty much all info you put out.

Hey Jelzouki, thanks for that wonderfully informative input. You are a real gem to this necro forum <3

Sarcasm aside, I will admit that I might not be best at clearly describing/explaining what I’m thinking. But a responses like that from you is just very unnecessary. I was merely stating that the nerf to RS #3 makes it harder to play power reaper since it means less stab, which means more CC, which means more lockdown and less skill usage.

I was just assuming that any other regular necro forum-goer was well aware of the numerous other problems that plague power necro/reaper. That’s why I didn’t explain myself further and didn’t write a wall of text.

What has changed for power necro/reaper in PvP is that with all the condi chrono’s, bunker ele ’s and scrappers going around there is unfortunately no place for it in higher-tier PvP.

So is it really worth discrediting everything that I make/say?

Jelzouki.4128:

Holl.3109:

stability nerf (#3 in RS)

Nothing has changed…

Jelzouki.4128:

Holl.3109:

…makes it harder

You talk like rs3 is the only thing carrying power reaper.

Holl.3109:

Jelzouki.4128:

This is why I discredit all your videos and pretty much all info you put out.

… is it really worth discrediting everything that I make/say?

How dare you question the flawless logic of Jealous-ki?!

Please try to be reasonable and polite, people. This is the Necromancer forum and we have a reputation to maintain.

I like the two builds you posted Holl, and I really like the idea behind using the shouts for the chill (at least in theory haha). Sure, the runes are power oriented (more or less) but having 4 shouts is pretty nice imo cuz you get nice AoE bleeds and potentially nice chill uptime (nice synergy with Chilling Victory). And either way, Mercenary is hybrid to begin with. I like the idea behind it. Have you / has anyone tried this yet?

I’m not sure about Krait + Wanderer combo… I love Krait runes, but wanderer already has sooooo much condi duration, which makes all the bleeds last way too long anyway. But Barbed Precision bleeds get a really nice boost.

I’ve also found the new DC… interesting to say the least (only from sPvP standpoint). One the one hand, I love that Revenants have been a piece of cake lately, and thieves have been easier to manage too (they can remove our chill like it’s nothing, but the bleeds remain). I also really like doing RS #5 and #4 on a group of enemies (especially when they’re trying to res. I found that sitting RIGHT on top of a target makes most/all of the whrils hit)… and this does so much more damage than the old DC (I get 10+ bleed stacks). I also like that it synergizes with other Reapers (I fought 2 Reapers one game and they stacked like 15 bleeds on me like it was nothing, whereas before I’d just have that one chill and a couple of bleeds).

Personally, I haven’t found a crazy DPS drop in most situations, but the “burst” is a lot lower and takes much more ramp up time (stack lots of chills for lots of bleeds, which takes time, but CAN be higher than the old deathly chill). And I found Necros easier to fight… haha.

I’ve tried this build and it’s as good as it was before, imo. Frailty and Torment sigil on scepter give so much nice cover condi (along with weakening shroud), and SWall wrecks melee targets.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLhZakjG6txibwvG4vxyxgF1z2WBAqlwUYWFvD/hFRA-TphGABFcIAEvMQR7PQ8JAwgjAAAPAAA

Lately I’ve been playing terrormancer reaper and tbh… other than thieves kinda kicking my kitten a lil bit when I got no spectral wall, it’s super kittening strong:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLhZ6kjGo8Gs4GwvGgeTsEMYUXhtwvKKpFAaAxFxlYUE-TphGABiXGAgHAAxnAADOCAFcIAKa/BA

I tried Mercenary + Krait, and it’s definitively good, but I like Wanderer 100x more.

I also wanted to make a blood magic (power or condi) build as well with wells or shouts (I see Silverkey already dabbled in this idea with shouts >:) ). I wanna try Chrono Runes + well of blood = super quick cast time. Seems good in theory.

Sorry for the wall q.q… topic is too interesting! X_x

flow.6043:

Jelzouki.4128:

Holl.3109:

stability nerf (#3 in RS)

Nothing has changed…

Jelzouki.4128:

Holl.3109:

…makes it harder

You talk like rs3 is the only thing carrying power reaper.

Holl.3109:

Jelzouki.4128:

This is why I discredit all your videos and pretty much all info you put out.

… is it really worth discrediting everything that I make/say?

How dare you question the flawless logic of Jealous-ki?!

I guarantee I’ve made it further in high tier competitive pvp than you have. I don’t know what point you’re trying to make, unless you think that rs3 is carrying reaper as well, in that case I have no words.

Jelzouki.4128:

I guarantee I’ve made it further in high tier competitive pvp than you have.

lol

Jelzouki.4128:

I don’t know what point you’re trying to make

That you are overreacting to a completely harmless post.

Jelzouki.4128:

unless you think that rs3 is carrying reaper as well, in that case I have no words.

Just a reminder, the only person here to ever even mention “rs3 carrying reaper” is you.
Holl said: less stability makes it harder to play.
Then you come in here with drama-queen-mode turned all the way up to 11 and say everything Holl does is worthless, based on your very own misinterpretation of what he actually wrote.

In PvP?

Soul reaping, curses, reaper.

The new deathly chill synergies well with a high crit build because you can stack bleeds far faster than anybody can cleanse them by themselves. Even those bunky cleanse happy chronos.

I use dhuumfire now with it for extra yummy burns.

And you can happily combine an earth sigil and hydromancy for even more bleeds

I forgot to post what traits I use.

In reaper I use chilling nova(the chill on crit adds more bleed and a burst of flat damage)

Decimate defenses for lots of crit on people. Of course deathly chill

Curses I’m using the duration increases with corruption recharge reduction.

And soul reaping I’m using vulnerable on strike, dhuumfire, and whatever makes shroud last longer

Then on my bad I typically run plague signet, rise, and either BiP or corrupt boon or corrosive poison cloud.

I found the adjustment a bit rough seeing how I use other traits on other lines to improve DC. Now that bleed has replaced chill on that trait I feel put back on the proverbial bench again. Being a player that uses virtually the same build in all game types now I have to play around with builds again since I made chill damage the primary point of the build and all upgrades, traits, etc where done to work with the old DC. Necromancer is death and cold i.e. Grenth. Let Balthazaar and his “I just swung a sword can I has cookie now?” warriors worry about bleeds. Just a 12 year GW Necro Vet’s opinion.

Skullmarked.8705:

I found the adjustment a bit rough seeing how I use other traits on other lines to improve DC. Now that bleed has replaced chill on that trait I feel put back on the proverbial bench again. Being a player that uses virtually the same build in all game types now I have to play around with builds again since I made chill damage the primary point of the build and all upgrades, traits, etc where done to work with the old DC. Necromancer is death and cold i.e. Grenth. Let Balthazaar and his “I just swung a sword can I has cookie now?” warriors worry about bleeds. Just a 12 year GW Necro Vet’s opinion.

Bleeds are all over the place in necro though, and I always associated burning with balthazar, not bleed imho.

Holl.3109:

Jelzouki.4128:

Holl.3109:

:P power reaper isn’t as good anymore in PvP…. stability nerf (#3 in RS) makes it way harder to play in CC spam PvP.

Power reaper is still my bae is WvW tho

Nothing has changed for power reaper in Pvp. You talk like rs3 is the only thing carrying power reaper. This is why I discredit all your videos and pretty much all info you put out.

Hey Jelzouki, thanks for that wonderfully informative input. You are a real gem to this necro forum <3

Sarcasm aside, I will admit that I might not be best at clearly describing/explaining what I’m thinking. But a responses like that from you is just very unnecessary. I was merely stating that the nerf to RS #3 makes it harder to play power reaper since it means less stab, which means more CC, which means more lockdown and less skill usage.

I was just assuming that any other regular necro forum-goer was well aware of the numerous other problems that plague power necro/reaper. That’s why I didn’t explain myself further and didn’t write a wall of text.

What has changed for power necro/reaper in PvP is that with all the condi chrono’s, bunker ele ’s and scrappers going around there is unfortunately no place for it in higher-tier PvP.

So is it really worth discrediting everything that I make/say?

I do not think that many people really understand the gravity of the RS3 nerf in the pvp setting. But there are some that do. Power, Condition, Hybrid, it doesn’t matter. With the nerf, you no longer have the time and/or option to set up certain attacks because the RS3 active expires too fast. You now have to save RS3 and take significant cc/damage. Enemies are well aware that time is not on your side the moment you enter shroud, and some will not even kite you if they don’t see stability. It’s far easier to interrupt you and save a dodge/block/etc.

It’s bad enough that you can still get cc-locked after RS3 initial activation, usually when trying to recover from cc. And what use to take at least three corruptions/removals to keep a Reaper in-check, can now be done with one. No need to waste two or more because RS3 is not going to last anyway. You are now no more of a threat than Death Shroud and will be treated as such. And the best part, they don’t even have to come to you since Reaper, by design…. well no need to finish that statement.

A Reaper can function without Deathly Chill. But without Stablility?

Yes this exactly. We’re supposed to be unstoppable walking agents of death, but now one little stun can shut down us down. Especially with out huge cast times in Reaper Shroud we need the stability more than ever. That’s not even mentioning that RS is melee/frontline based.

People can kite reaper’s already, making them weaker to more CC is just harsh.

MethaneGas.8357:

I like the two builds you posted Holl, and I really like the idea behind using the shouts for the chill (at least in theory haha). Sure, the runes are power oriented (more or less) but having 4 shouts is pretty nice imo cuz you get nice AoE bleeds and potentially nice chill uptime (nice synergy with Chilling Victory). And either way, Mercenary is hybrid to begin with. I like the idea behind it. Have you / has anyone tried this yet?

I’m not sure about Krait + Wanderer combo… I love Krait runes, but wanderer already has sooooo much condi duration, which makes all the bleeds last way too long anyway. But Barbed Precision bleeds get a really nice boost.

I’ve also found the new DC… interesting to say the least (only from sPvP standpoint). One the one hand, I love that Revenants have been a piece of cake lately, and thieves have been easier to manage too (they can remove our chill like it’s nothing, but the bleeds remain). I also really like doing RS #5 and #4 on a group of enemies (especially when they’re trying to res. I found that sitting RIGHT on top of a target makes most/all of the whrils hit)… and this does so much more damage than the old DC (I get 10+ bleed stacks). I also like that it synergizes with other Reapers (I fought 2 Reapers one game and they stacked like 15 bleeds on me like it was nothing, whereas before I’d just have that one chill and a couple of bleeds).

Personally, I haven’t found a crazy DPS drop in most situations, but the “burst” is a lot lower and takes much more ramp up time (stack lots of chills for lots of bleeds, which takes time, but CAN be higher than the old deathly chill). And I found Necros easier to fight… haha.

I’ve tried this build and it’s as good as it was before, imo. Frailty and Torment sigil on scepter give so much nice cover condi (along with weakening shroud), and SWall wrecks melee targets.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLhZakjG6txibwvG4vxyxgF1z2WBAqlwUYWFvD/hFRA-TphGABFcIAEvMQR7PQ8JAwgjAAAPAAA

Lately I’ve been playing terrormancer reaper and tbh… other than thieves kinda kicking my kitten a lil bit when I got no spectral wall, it’s super kittening strong:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLhZ6kjGo8Gs4GwvGgeTsEMYUXhtwvKKpFAaAxFxlYUE-TphGABiXGAgHAAxnAADOCAFcIAKa/BA

I tried Mercenary + Krait, and it’s definitively good, but I like Wanderer 100x more.

I also wanted to make a blood magic (power or condi) build as well with wells or shouts (I see Silverkey already dabbled in this idea with shouts >:) ). I wanna try Chrono Runes + well of blood = super quick cast time. Seems good in theory.

Sorry for the wall q.q… topic is too interesting! X_x

Thanks for the input Marin! I tried the reaper runes build and it did decent, but with only 1050 condi dmg and spite instead of curses those extra bleeds didn’t add any noticeable dmg…

Still looking for a good build >.>

Holl, I am honestly not sure condition damage changes enough between power stat’s and condition damage stat’s.

What I mean is that base bleed and poison dps with zero condition damage equipment is not zero dps.

I might as well build for power/crit and use bleeds as the situation calls for it. Dps on a berserker/valkyrie build using dagger focus and scepter focus might still be better than giving up ferocity for a high condition damage stat.

Perhaps I will experiment a bit this weekend and see just how long I need to camp scepter AA with Curses or Spite to equal dps on maining dagger and using scepter in place of staff for ranged. Both using Reaper shouts and Deathly Chill.

the shouts idea is a good one, threw together something random . will test it out later.

Anchoku.8142:

Holl, I am honestly not sure condition damage changes enough between power stat’s and condition damage stat’s.

What I mean is that base bleed and poison dps with zero condition damage equipment is not zero dps.

I might as well build for power/crit and use bleeds as the situation calls for it. Dps on a berserker/valkyrie build using dagger focus and scepter focus might still be better than giving up ferocity for a high condition damage stat.

Perhaps I will experiment a bit this weekend and see just how long I need to camp scepter AA with Curses or Spite to equal dps on maining dagger and using scepter in place of staff for ranged. Both using Reaper shouts and Deathly Chill.

They re-scaled condi damage last June to not work as well if you don’t stat condi. You’re correct, it’s not zero damage without, but you are definitely gonna get a lower dps without it. If you want to do a power build, don’t worry about it (and there’s better trait choices for that anyway). You could do a hybrid build (rampager, sinister, viper, carrion all options for that).

I’m tweaking my cross between Chillomancer and the old Celestial Signet necro. Mercenary amulet, Reaper, Spite Curses. Scepter/focus & Staff. Traited I don’t need anything more than spamming my condis to get a high crit % which I use to redirect condis from teammates to opponents (Plague Signet and Plague Sending) while doing good direct damage when I pop into shroud occasionally. I have Signet of the Locust too for the 25% speed boost and an extra heal. I have my signets traited to remove boons and give me might as well. Suffer and “Chilled to the Bone” round out my skills

I have Grenth runes right now for lots of extra chills and condi dmg but was playing with Lyssa as another condi cleanse. Using “Your Soul is Mine” as my heal I have an extra group chill every 18 seconds or less depending on how many I hit with it.

YSIM is a very underrated heal. It has almost half the recharge time as our other heals and heals for a good amount and does damage and provides LF, but really shines with runes that give it an added effect like Grenth chills. In a full battle it can proc almost every 15 seconds (traited with Augury of Death). Each time I heal I spam Chill, Vuln, and Bleed, do damage, siphon, gain LF.. not bad. It really helps as an escape as I heal and run from chilled foes.