(edited by Iceflame.5024)
So you thought necrotic traversal was bugged?
It’s totally intended and we all need crystal balls or telepathic abilities to know which cliffs would let you reliably port onto them using the wurm and which won’t…..
Actually you can just get into an empty map and start testing the locations like every other player wanting to know where the locations are.
Hello again there Tenderly. We seem to live in different worlds when it comes to an image of a properly working quality game. I am not able to understand your point of view. Those keep cliffs work that way and I am aware that you need a specific angle to make it work, I see it as broken because for example henge terrain that is on the same map doesn’t require these telepathic abilities. I see the keep zone as one with pathing issues.
Then you seem to ignore the problem where sometimes you get teleported to the wall, sometimes you get teleported only a distance of 200 and sometimes you don’t get teleported anywhere at all, that was pretty much what that thread is all about. I cannot see it in any way other than pathing issues….
Hello again there Tenderly. We seem to live in different worlds when it comes to an image of a properly working quality game. I am not able to understand your point of view. Those keep cliffs work that way and I am aware that you need a specific angle to make it work, I see it as broken because for example henge terrain that is on the same map doesn’t require these telepathic abilities. I see the keep zone as one with pathing issues.
Then you seem to ignore the problem where sometimes you get teleported to the wall, sometimes you get teleported only a distance of 200 and sometimes you don’t get teleported anywhere at all, that was pretty much what that thread is all about.
Not once did I mention that it wasn’t broken to have a teleport fail when using it in the same spot where it previously worked 100% of the time. That’s what the thread was talking about. It wasn’t talking about having teleports work in spots where previously they had not.
I personally do not find it broken to have teleports not work where they weren’t intended to work. All teleports are essentially pathing algorithms that trace the ground to your intended teleport location. It’s really a learn to play issue of finding the correct locations. All the players that know these locations have tested them to work.
It could be argued that teleports should work if your intended spot is within with range of yourself and within the confines with the range in the ability. But that’s not how the teleports have been working in this game. To me, this would create havoc where classes with teleports would outshine classes without them more so than they already do.
There you go with the L2P style, sigh……
I personally do not find it broken to have teleports not work where they weren’t intended to work.
Have you seen the devs reaction on the SOTG when they are asked if something is intended? Is that convincing enough for you? Is the excuse of the lack of fixing on the devs part enough of a reason for the players to accept all those bugs as intended and promote them?
To me, this would create havoc where classes with teleports would outshine classes without them more so than they already do.
So perma evades, perma stealth and perma stunbreakers as well as other stuff in this game is not chaotic enough?
If it is actually a L2P issues, saying L2P is a valid response. He is explaining to you how teleports actually function in this game, and you are rejecting him on the basis of “nuh uh”.
I am aware of how they function in the game. I am pointing it out as a problem, the pathing problem. Since other classes got to experience it now, that means we can finally bring some attention to it and possibly(I know I might be dreaming here) fix it to make it work like a competent and intuitive pathing system. Both of you are pretty much rejecting this. Is that how you want to keep it? It is very saddening if it is so. Please be ashamed that you are promoting bugs……
Bhawb I get the feeling that you tend to eat and swallow the devs excuses like it’s some kind of your personal favourite dessert and then be happy about it while spreading the word that life is beautiful here….
(edited by Iceflame.5024)
To my knowledge, Flesh Wurm is working according to the algorithm it is programmed to follow, so yes.
There you go with the L2P style, sigh……
I personally do not find it broken to have teleports not work where they weren’t intended to work.
Have you seen the devs reaction on the SOTG when they are asked if something is intended? Is that convincing enough for you? Is the excuse of the lack of fixing on the devs part enough of a reason for the players to accept all those bugs as intended and promote them?
To me, this would create havoc where classes with teleports would outshine classes without them more so than they already do.
So perma evades, perma stealth and perma stunbreakers as well as other stuff in this game is not chaotic enough?
Yea the teleport locations are very L2P. Anyone can learn them. I also believe they function like this to actually put a limit on teleports. Your suggestion is to have them work almost anywhere as long as they are within the confines of the ability. And that’s understandable since Flesh Wurm is arguably the worst teleport because of it’s non-instant nature. I just don’t agree.
I don’t find that the locations themselves are bugs. The recent post about them not working 100% of the time when before they did I can agree with. They should be consistent and this issue should be fixed.
Perma evades/stealth/stunbreakers are a whole other issue entirely. And I’m not sure where you got perma evades or stunbreakers from.
It’s not really perma evade, but there is a high uptime on certain classes, not gamebreaking.
Perma stealth is annoying to deal with but not impossible, especially since in a tournament game it does hardly anything at all to win the match.
And you’re actually agreeing with me when you say that “they” are chaotic enough. Changing the teleports to work almost anywhere makes it more chaotic and unbalanced in some cases. It’s hard to see when Necros only get one legitimate ground targeted forward teleport that’s arguably worse than what other classes have. I’ve been maining Necro since BWE 1.
Tenderly, how do you treat this game? When I see a placed teleport similar to flesh wurm I think of other games. Other games all follow an intuitive and reasonable system of these kind of teleports being limited by range but completely ignoring pathing and LOS. That is how it’s supposed to work for me, yet they work in a very weird way. Judging by your responses you don’t mind it at all, heck you’re promoting it.
Is it the case where people want to see the game being this special snowflake so they can think of how special and cool they are that they play it while hating on the other giants out there in the market? Is this the reason for people to promote these clearly bugged mechanics?
Please try to not use the word “intended” in your posts since the devs seem to not know if stuff is intended or not themselves.
(edited by Iceflame.5024)
here we go again with the fanbois trying to tell people that game bugs are L2P issues.
for weeks bawb was telling us L2P because he had found a way to get the broken minion ai to work slightly more reliably in the mists. Then his story changed to " I never said it wasn’t broken" after the necro community took a huge collective kitten on the idea that minion ai was working as intended.
If it’s working inconsistently, admitted by fanboi 1 and 2, then……
here we go again with the fanbois trying to tell people that game bugs are L2P issues.
Heh, my last post was pretty much about the fanboy problem lol. This situatuion is absurd……
Tenderly, how do you treat this game? When I see a placed teleport similar to flesh wurm I think of other games. Other games all follow an intuitive and reasonable system of these kind of teleports being limited by range but completely ignoring pathing and LOS. That is how it’s supposed to work for me, yet they work in a very weird way. Judging by your responses you don’t mind it at all, heck you’re promoting it.
Is it the case where people want to see the game being this special snowflake so they can think of how special and cool they are that they play it while hating on the other giants out there in the market? Is this the reason for people to promote these clearly bugged mechanics?
Please try to not use the word “intended” in your posts since the devs seem to not know if stuff is intended or not themselves.
I’d rather just keep it on topic and still support the idea that having the teleports work almost anywhere like they do in other games would actually make it worse for the Necromancer and other classes with worse/no teleports, not better.
It is my belief that this pathing/LOS issue with the teleports that you don’t agree with is a limiting factor to curb the power level on such abilities, whether or not it was intended by the devs. Again, they should work 100% of the time in the right spots.
I’d rather just keep it on topic and still support the idea that having the teleports work almost anywhere like they do in other games would actually make it worse for the Necromancer and other classes with worse/no teleports, not better.
It is my belief that this pathing/LOS issue with the teleports that you don’t agree with is a limiting factor to curb the power level on such abilities, whether or not it was intended by the devs. Again, they should work 100% of the time in the right spots.
Now that I think about it, class ability distribution is actually another topic as well and needs to be looked at. In the end I cannot quite understand your way but I have a lot of other games with this mechanic working in a reasonable and intuitive way to back me up. A bug is a bug, a broken mechanic is a broken mechanic. In the end this game is one huge mess after all, it’s important to keep that in mind.
(edited by Iceflame.5024)
It is my belief that this pathing/LOS issue with the teleports that you don’t agree with is a limiting factor to curb the power level on such abilities, whether or not it was intended by the devs. Again, they should work 100% of the time in the right spots.
what a ridiculous belief
you are comfortable with how thing are so that is how things should work whether the devs intend it or not?
you just lost all credibility with that one.
They need to make the abilities work or not work consistently regardless of terrain.
Then they need to give us a DS 5 ability that can block any and all movement enhancing abilities on a player for 6-8 seconds.
It is my belief that this pathing/LOS issue with the teleports that you don’t agree with is a limiting factor to curb the power level on such abilities, whether or not it was intended by the devs. Again, they should work 100% of the time in the right spots.
what a ridiculous belief
you are comfortable with how thing are so that is how things should work whether the devs intend it or not?
you just lost all credibility with that one.
They need to make the abilities work or not work consistently regardless of terrain.
Then they need to give us a DS 5 ability that can block any and all movement enhancing abilities on a player for 6-8 seconds.
I think you’re misunderstanding the entire statement. Having teleports work anywhere and everywhere would only make it better for the classes that already have teleports and make it worse for classes have bad ones or none. I do believe that devs intended this but that doesn’t matter if they did or didn’t. If teleports were more amazing than they are now, then they would need to consider giving every class an instant teleport for balancing purposes. That should not be the case. There would be less class diversity.
The way they work now is that you need to be in a certain spot in some cases for them to teleport into amazing spots. These need to work 100% of the time, they don’t seem to work 100% since this recent patch. It should be 100%. Learn those spots and teleports are very powerful. Making them more powerful would make balance worse.
It is my belief that this pathing/LOS issue with the teleports that you don’t agree with is a limiting factor to curb the power level on such abilities, whether or not it was intended by the devs. Again, they should work 100% of the time in the right spots.
what a ridiculous belief
you are comfortable with how thing are so that is how things should work whether the devs intend it or not?
you just lost all credibility with that one.
They need to make the abilities work or not work consistently regardless of terrain.
Then they need to give us a DS 5 ability that can block any and all movement enhancing abilities on a player for 6-8 seconds.
I think you’re misunderstanding the entire statement. Having teleports work anywhere and everywhere would only make it better for the classes that already have teleports and make it worse for classes have bad ones or none. I do believe that devs intended this but that doesn’t matter if they did or didn’t. If teleports were more amazing than they are now, then they would need to consider giving every class an instant teleport for balancing purposes. That should not be the case. There would be less class diversity.
The way they work now is that you need to be in a certain spot in some cases for them to teleport into amazing spots. These need to work 100% of the time, they don’t seem to work 100% since this recent patch. It should be 100%. Learn those spots and teleports are very powerful. Making them more powerful would make balance worse.
the ridiculous continues.
now you are telling us all game balance depends on “having certain spots that you can teleport to amazing spots from”, or they will have to give teleports to everyone.
cmon, as said before it’s been done in other games.
I think you are the one not understanding also. I didn’t mention if I thought teleports were too good or not good enough. In fact I think they need to be toned down a bit.
But when you try and convince us that either having them work in only some “secret” spots or we have to give everyone instant teleport are our only options it just shows how little you have thought this through.
The thread linked there was all about a recently introduced bug that started making shadowstep abilities occasionally fail drastically in situations they should have clearly succeeded. (Obvious paths, ~1200 range)
The opening post of the linked thread referenced this video- in about the first 15 seconds you can see the shadow return part of the shadowstep utility skill fail completely. There’s another good example at around 1:20 in the video at the same set of stairs.
Of course at this point it’s just two guys ganging up on Tenderly for saying that ANet doesn’t need to buff teleport abilities, so I don’t really know why I bother.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
the ridiculous continues.
now you are telling us all game balance depends on “having certain spots that you can teleport to amazing spots from”, or they will have to give teleports to everyone.
cmon, as said before it’s been done in other games.
I think you are the one not understanding also. I didn’t mention if I thought teleports were too good or not good enough. In fact I think they need to be toned down a bit.
But when you try and convince us that either having them work in only some “secret” spots or we have to give everyone instant teleport are our only options it just shows how little you have thought this through.
So what you are saying is that teleports should be toned down a bit yet you should be able to teleport all around anywhere you please? I believe that’s a contradiction sir. They exist in the fashion they do now for them not be too powerful and anyone can learn the spots.
It’s a logical conclusion to think that if teleports enabled a player to reach spots that were previously harder to reach, they increase in power. It would be easier to use them and lowering the skillcap. In turn, classes with worse or no teleports will need to compensate, and the easiest way to do that would be to give them teleports or make ones that they have better. It’s by no means the only option, and there are certainly other ways to compensate obviously. My word isn’t law.
Tenderly, how do you treat this game? When I see a placed teleport similar to flesh wurm I think of other games. Other games all follow an intuitive and reasonable system of these kind of teleports being limited by range but completely ignoring pathing and LOS. That is how it’s supposed to work for me, yet they work in a very weird way. Judging by your responses you don’t mind it at all, heck you’re promoting it.
Is it the case where people want to see the game being this special snowflake so they can think of how special and cool they are that they play it while hating on the other giants out there in the market? Is this the reason for people to promote these clearly bugged mechanics?
Please try to not use the word “intended” in your posts since the devs seem to not know if stuff is intended or not themselves.
If teleports ignored pathing you could teleport into places you are not meant to reach so easily.
For example you could teleport right on forwards on Jumping Puzzles.
There is one targeted teleport that actually ignores pathing:
The teleport on the Guild rush spider form.
It’s rather crazy.
Portal and Spectral Walk have “true teleporting” because you can only cast them at your feet.
This means the caster can’t use them to get to where he hasn’t been first.
I remember a thread about the Wurm before.
If it obeyed pathing/Shadow Step rules when summoning it then it could be allowed to be a true teleport when teleporting to it.
Bhawb suggested you’d just cast it at your feet and have it be a true teleport afterwards.
I didn’t like that idea, but it’s certainly doable if Anet wants to do so.
But any teleport you want to use to actually gain distance forwards can’t just ignore the rules because it allows people to get into places they aren’t meant to get to.
Like say… just fire an infiltrator’s arrow from some weird position on the higher portions of a keep wall.
Or possibly fire at the ceiling inside a cave and end up on top of it depending on how it works.
Actually, even WITH the rules I’ve walked on top of a mountain in PvE in the past.
Quite amusing.
What they really need to do is make the pathing work properly.
It obviously doesn’t work well enough right now.
Benight[Edge]
(edited by LastDay.3524)
Of course at this point it’s just two guys ganging up on Tenderly for saying that ANet doesn’t need to buff teleport abilities, so I don’t really know why I bother.
oh my apologies, I didn’t know the teams had to be even to have a discussion around here. Poor tpvp people get so upset when everything isn’t exactly fair.
How foolish of me to disagree that teleports should be given to everyone if devs decide not to have “special spots” to teleport to/from.
So what you are saying is that teleports should be toned down a bit yet you should be able to teleport all around anywhere you please? I believe that’s a contradiction sir.
It certainly is a contradiction. Where did you get “teleport all around anywhere” in any of my posts?
As we have stated before, have it show the red line on the button saying you can’t range this, when it wont work, or if too hard to code UI to reflect what the game checks on cast, let us only drop it at our feet, and then tele back to it without issue’s, like what the mes’s get.
We do NOT want to exploit the game by getting places we shouldn’t go. We just don’t want to learn each pixel in world this thing works vs the one next to it.
Casts that go Fizz and go on CD doing nothing when you cast because the ground wasn’t flat, are not fun.
Of course at this point it’s just two guys ganging up on Tenderly for saying that ANet doesn’t need to buff teleport abilities, so I don’t really know why I bother.
oh my apologies, I didn’t know the teams had to be even to have a discussion around here. Poor tpvp people get so upset when everything isn’t exactly fair.
How foolish of me to disagree that teleports should be given to everyone if devs decide not to have “special spots” to teleport to/from.
It’s more of an exasperated admission that this thread has largely run its course: the OP was a non-starter, but since someone was willing to walk in and be the designated ‘other side’ of the argument, it became more about whatever they were saying at the moment than, say, whether or not Necrotic Traversal functions appropriately.
As for the current argument, the statement made was that further reducing restrictions on current shadowstep / teleport skills would increase their power to a level that it would likely unbalance the game unless all classes were given meaningful access to such mechanics. I find myself agreeing, since mobility tends to be a very powerful ability in most games, and current shadowsteps (Well, before the alterations referenced in the thread linked in the OP) can leverage a lot of power even with their restrictions. Removing those restrictions would just be a strict buff to abilities that can be game-changing already. The thought of them becoming overpowering without those restrictions isn’t that unreasonable.
Now regarding ‘special spots’: My problem with them is that sometimes
That’s as far as I got. I wrote all of that, trying so hard to be good and give a well-thought through response that took into consideration multiple posts in the entire thread and the apparent positions of most of the contributers. But honestly? Most of the posts in this thread are abrasive and gag-inducing. And I am sick of having to read them.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
Of course at this point it’s just two guys ganging up on Tenderly for saying that ANet doesn’t need to buff teleport abilities, so I don’t really know why I bother.
oh my apologies, I didn’t know the teams had to be even to have a discussion around here. Poor tpvp people get so upset when everything isn’t exactly fair.
How foolish of me to disagree that teleports should be given to everyone if devs decide not to have “special spots” to teleport to/from.
It’s more of an exasperated admission that this thread has largely run its course: the OP was a non-starter, but since someone was willing to walk in and be the designated ‘other side’ of the argument, it became more about whatever they were saying at the moment than, say, whether or not Necrotic Traversal functions appropriately.
As for the current argument, the statement made was that further reducing restrictions on current shadowstep / teleport skills would increase their power to a level that it would likely unbalance the game unless all classes were given meaningful access to such mechanics. I find myself agreeing, since mobility tends to be a very powerful ability in most games, and current shadowsteps (Well, before the alterations referenced in the thread linked in the OP) can leverage a lot of power even with their restrictions. Removing those restrictions would just be a strict buff to abilities that can be game-changing already. The thought of them becoming overpowering without those restrictions isn’t that unreasonable.
Now regarding ‘special spots’: My problem with them is that sometimesThat’s as far as I got. I wrote all of that, trying so hard to be good and give a well-thought through response that took into consideration multiple posts in the entire thread and the apparent positions of most of the contributers. But honestly? Most of the posts in this thread are abrasive and gag-inducing. And I am sick of having to read them.
stop acting like a wounded animal in these discussions, if your skin isn’t thick enough that you get upset when someone else doesn’t agree with yet a different persons opinion then maybe this forum is a bit too wild for you. Just look at the your own quote about ganging up, cmon man there just happened to be different opinions and an odd number of people. No one came with ulterior motives.
I fail to understand how people say that inconsistent and clearly bugged behavior is totally fine and knowing the spots where the ports actually work is skill…. This is the first time I encounter something like this.
Saying that I want to buff teleports? I want them to fix the bugged inconsistency, how is that buffing them. Tenderly, fixing these pathing issues won’t change much, people will just be able to teleport to the same places they were able to before without having to master the bugs of this game…. The core of the situation will still be the same, I’m not trying to expand the teleporting possibilities… If I am not mistaken you can teleport up a ledge if you can get there on foot without jumping. A lot of locations that fit this description act inconsistent. The idea of having to learn and master the bugged mechanics and then promoting it as skilled gameplay is just mindblowing.
I would like to ask someone to explain how did people get to a point where a bug is treated this way. I ask you to kindly explain it to me please, seriously I cannot understand this.