SoTG: Necromancers have a lot of builds?
Wait… did you just say 100b was an OP build? I’d just edit that part out if you want people to take you seriously.
Minion AI is okay. It could use some work, but 95% of the time your minions will attack, they just need to fix it so that they don’t get as confused against mesmers and thieves going in and out of stealth.
Everything else here was just… no.
Well, if this wasn’t a spvp standpoint thread I would have a lot to say regarding your pov on powermancer’s and their “reliability”, but hey… maybe powermancers are a completely different class setup in spvp that I am unaware of… I will stick to my pve gameplay and utilizing conditions (not just bleeds…) to increase my damage by 22%, Death Shroud to absorb large attacks and apply fears that tick for 300 (normal) to 600 (crit), and other interesting gameplay mechanics that don’t rely on sitting there hoping I get a sweet crit…
Listen, we don’t have a “ridiculous” build. No ranger bleeds, no 100b, no d/d ele, no 100nades, no shatter, no bunker(?) guardian, no stealth, nothing.
This is kind of the point. Ridiculous builds are the ones that get nerfed sooner or later*, with other builds receiving cumulative, minor buffs until they gain a favourable position.
Please arenanet lets fix minion ai, buff our pretty “meh” conditions, or fix the tooltips.
I can agree with that last one wholeheartedly, minor as it is.
*I know ArenaNet says they want to ‘raise other builds up’ to the level of those ones, but I have yet to ever see that phrase followed to the letter. Nerfs will happen, and they are almost always aimed at the strongest builds.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
I don’t know about others, but flesh golem and bone minions do need some serious work on their AI.
Half the time that I explode a bone minion, it is at my back and not on my target (who I’m attacking for a while, of course).
They dont attack if I’m using AoEs, even if I have a target.
sometimes, If I switch target, they keep hitting my previous target.
sometimes if i run they run, sometimes they keep fighting.
sometimes if I roll arround my target, applying weakness or chill, minions stop their attack.
sometimes, sometimes, sometimes… AI is not consistent, hence its not ok.
Anyone saying something else, is not playing minions (again I refer to mele minions).
I’ve played minions in PvP almost exclusively since beta. The melee minions sometimes screw up, but it is incredibly rare.
I’ve played minions in PvP almost exclusively since beta. The melee minions sometimes screw up, but it is incredibly rare.
Trolls (and misinformators), Trolls (and misinformators) Everywhere…
Where are moderators when they’re needed?
ALPHA, BETA, several months, … 1 Year later…“When it’s ready”[cit.]
I’ve played minions in PvP almost exclusively since beta. The melee minions sometimes screw up, but it is incredibly rare.
no, is not that rare.
here is another one: In downed state, sometimes the flesh golem hits your target, sometimes not, this happen half the time (it’s so good when it actually attack).
No one target the flesh golem, cause it’s not a problem in terms of damage or condition. They just have to run a little to avoid golem’s attacks, until the minion lose target.
Really, you should pay more attention.
I’ve played minions in PvP almost exclusively since beta. The melee minions sometimes screw up, but it is incredibly rare.
no, is not that rare.
here is another one: In downed state, sometimes the flesh golem hits your target, sometimes not, this happen half the time (it’s so good when it actually attack).
No one target the flesh golem, cause it’s not a problem in terms of damage or condition. They just have to run a little to avoid golem’s attacks, until the minion lose target.
Really, you should pay more attention.
You should pay attention. He is correct. Their ai is tied to you attacks. Two single target attacks will change their target. Their ai is very simple to grasp once you pick up the method. Unfortunately, that is tough for many of us to do. My minions are reliable 95 percent of the time. Bone minions can get wonky, and flesh golem sometimes bugs, but usually when he does its my fault.
A pity that if you miss your attack, or the target is invulnerable or temporarily untouchable your pets will just ignore your orders.
ALPHA, BETA, several months, … 1 Year later…“When it’s ready”[cit.]
A pity that if you miss your attack, or the target is invulnerable or temporarily untouchable your pets will just ignore your orders.
“Man, I wish my minions attacked invulnerable opponents more often.”
Said no-one, ever.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
Gonna attempt to get this thread back on topic.
Yes, necros have lots of viable builds.
-Standard condition build (0/30/10/10/20, plus a few variations)
-Complete glass cannon that melts everything (30/30/10/0/0)
-Terror condition build (0/30/20/0/20)
-Ele-killing power build (30/20/0/0/20, super fun, 4.2k life blast crits, incredible dagger spam damage, boon removal)
-Minion bunker-buster (20/0/30/20/0, Berserker’s stats)
-Minion bunker (20/0/30/20/0, Soldier’s stats)
-Xelfer doesn’t stream anymore, but he used a hybrid condition/healing build that was very strong at holding a point, his team ran it all the time. From memory it was something like 0/20/20/10/20, Shaman’s amulet.
PERSONAL PLUG
-Hybrid condi/power build that also squeezes in Terror, also melts Eles (30/10/10/0/20) first link in sig
-Well bunker build with crazy life siphoning (10/0/30/30/0) second link in sig
-And more
Do necros have a god mode build that strongly affects the metagame, like trap rangers or bunker eles? No, not in sPvP, though I’ve heard that control WvW builds are in high demand. The point is that the trait lines is diverse enough to support a wide variety of builds, AND there is room for tweaking to suit personal preference, and all of them are pretty well balanced. Whereas there’s only one mesmer shatter build that’s used, or only one thief backstab build, for example.
When the devs say they want other classes to have our build variety, that’s a good thing.
(edited by lettucemode.3789)
Gonna attempt to get this thread back on topic.
Yes, necros have lots of viable builds.
-Standard condition build (0/30/10/10/20, plus a few variations)
-Complete glass cannon that melts everything (30/30/10/0/0)
-Terror condition build (0/30/20/0/20)
-Ele-killing power build (30/20/0/0/20, super fun, 4.2k life blast crits, incredible dagger spam damage, boon removal)
-Minion bunker-buster (20/0/30/20/0, Berserker’s stats)
-Minion bunker (20/0/30/20/0, Soldier’s stats)
-Xelfer doesn’t stream anymore, but he used a hybrid condition/healing build that was very strong at holding a point, his team ran it all the time. From memory it was something like 0/20/20/10/20, Shaman’s amulet.
PERSONAL PLUG
-Hybrid condi/power build that also squeezes in Terror, also melts Eles (30/10/10/0/20) first link in sig
-Well bunker build with crazy life siphoning (10/0/30/30/0) second link in sig
-And moreDo necros have a god mode build that strongly affects the metagame, like trap rangers or bunker eles? No, not in sPvP, though I’ve heard that control WvW builds are in high demand. The point is that the trait lines is diverse enough to support a wide variety of builds, AND there is room for tweaking to suit personal preference, and all of them are pretty well balanced. Whereas there’s only one mesmer shatter build that’s used, or only one thief backstab build, for example.
When the devs say they want other classes to have our build variety, that’s a good thing.
From spvp
-That isn’t the condition build to my knowledge.
-Glass cannon(non viable)
-Terror what? Our fears are on long c/d’s with a short duration even if traited.(non viable).
- Ele what? Sounds like a made up build for pve/wvw(Non-viable)
-minion builds. Bad ai. (non viable).
-Xelfer’s : other classes do it better. (viable, but not better).
-Your build doesn’t “squeeze fear” it relies 90% of it on that. Again, fear is a weak mechanic unless you are teamfighting in which case there are many other better builds even for necro than being a “fear bomb”..(not viable).
Listen, I’m not saying we NEED an “overpowered” build.(even though 100b isn’t technically that). What I’m saying is that we don’t have a build that shines like other classes.
That and our minion ai is still horrid, and tooltips just outright lie.(Hell, just give us a +% in our character stats or something).
From spvp
-That isn’t the condition build to my knowledge.
-Glass cannon(non viable)
-Terror what? Our fears are on long c/d’s with a short duration even if traited.(non viable).
- Ele what? Sounds like a made up build for pve/wvw(Non-viable)
-minion builds. Bad ai. (non viable).
-Xelfer’s : other classes do it better. (viable, but not better).
-Your build doesn’t “squeeze fear” it relies 90% of it on that. Again, fear is a weak mechanic unless you are teamfighting in which case there are many other better builds even for necro than being a “fear bomb”..(not viable).Listen, I’m not saying we NEED an “overpowered” build.(even though 100b isn’t technically that). What I’m saying is that we don’t have a build that shines like other classes.
That and our minion ai is still horrid, and tooltips just outright lie.(Hell, just give us a +% in our character stats or something).
How often do you play necromancer or watch high-level streams?
Powerr invented, protected, and used build #2 extensively with his team.
You dismiss the listed terror builds almost offhandedly. Have you played them? You can chain into a 4-second fear that does over 5k damage. It seals team fights AND is very strong in dueling, I use it in tournaments with great success. Khalifahaze, another high-level player, commented on my Facemelter build, saying it was a strong build in premades and that he liked it.
Ele killer build, again, Powerr was using it in tournaments on his stream and wrecking face, as was a Anet dev.
Ask Bas about the minion builds, he promoted them a while ago as the bunker-killer on his tPvP team. He had sound arguments and has used minions the most out of anyone on the forum so I believe him.
Do you only consider something to be viable if you see a pro use it? I noticed you had no problem with the build I claimed was Xelfer’s.
EDIT: Made post less angry.
(edited by lettucemode.3789)
Every build lettuce listed is viable in PvP, and he left out at least 3 that I know of as well. Necromancers have, far and above, the most amount of viable builds in PvP right now. Part of that being that we don’t have any single build that is far and above the best, so people go out of their way to theorycraft and invent new builds. Why would anyone in their right mind spend a few hours theory crafting a new ele build when they can just copy/paste a D/D build and be set?
Here’s something interesting you said:
Listen, I’m not saying we NEED an “overpowered” build.(even though 100b isn’t technically that). What I’m saying is that we don’t have a build that shines like other classes.
I assume you’re thinking of builds like trap ranger, shatter mesmer, bunker ele, etc. Those builds can only be said to “shine” if they are at the Anet-intended power level. However it’s pretty clear that they need to be adjusted downwards. So when Anet says that they want other classes to have build options like necro, it means they don’t want there to be builds that “shine”, but that each classes’ build list should reflect the one I posted above. Lots of cool things you can do, but none that stand out as imbalanced or “the best”.
(edited by lettucemode.3789)
Are there any videos of these people playing necromancers in sPvP using these builds?
I’m going to be honest here. Last 3 days I’ve been in sPvP struggling to find a build that works for necromancers. On my thief I’m easily able to do my job as a roamer and take points solo from bunkers and reinforce my team on points. Same thing on my warrior, but I just prefer thief for roaming. We typically win a majority of the time unless we face a team with double 100 blades warriors, which admittedly I have trouble with. Especially if they coordinate their attacks like most do. From a thief’s persective, the only things I fear is warriors and this 100’nades build that engineers are running. Necromancers have thus far been easy to kill.
On my necromancer its a different story. I honestly feel this class has the least amount of options when compared to other classes. There is no build that “shines” as is discussed above. Just a lot of “so so” builds. Some less viable than others due to game mechanics (IE. conditions). D/D elementalists are one of the hardest classes for me to fight as a necromancer.
I’ve tried the condition build. Conditions get wiped to often and to easily for this to be anything but a liability to the team. I am effectively doing no damage half the time because of this. This includes the terror build, which to the best of my knowledge, you can’t achieve 100% fear duration with in sPvP for the extra terror tick. Seriously, I want to know where you’re getting this 5 seconds of fear from. The lack of life force generation is also a serious problem for this type of build.
I’ve tried the power build. Glass as hell and lacks any of the survival mechanics other classes have to compensate (plate armor, invulnerability skills, mobility skills). Typical fight involves me taking a dirt nap before I even realize it due to the lack of mobility skills. Once in a while I’ll catch someone unaware and destroy them with a dark pact well bomb, but its not very reliable since it relies entirely on me landing the dark pact. Ele buster build? I really don’t know what to say about that. Any half decent elementalist is not going to let you kill him.
I’ve tried the minion bunker build. I don’t care what Bhawb and Bas have to say on this matter. My experiences have been radically different. The minion AI does not function properly most of the time. This is especially apparent with the bone minions who almost never attack my targets when I do. I’m constantly having to micromanage my position just to blow them up on target. The flesh golem has the same problems, but not as bad. However, if I encounter any class that stealths (thieves, mesmers, engineers), the flesh golem AI breaks half the time and will end up standing still for most of the fight until I force him to reengage with charge. TBH, the only minions I don’t have trouble with is the flesh wurm and the bone fiend. They always attack when I do and I’ve never noticed them having problems engaging targets. I haven’t used the shadow thinger so I can’t comment on its ability to function. Downed state is another matter. There have been more than one occasion that when I go down, all my minions freeze and just flat out stop attacking anything. Most of the time they don’t do this, but this is not something that can be relied on, and thus cannot be considered viable. Unreliability in any form is not viable. Especially in a competitive environment such as PVP. Everything needs to function as its supposed to all of the time.
There are also a few skills that I have issues with as a necromancer. Plague Signet is still broken. There have been many times where I’ll use it and nothing happens. This isn’t a blocked/dodged/line of sight issue. I’ll typically fear my target first so I can land these important skills. You can’t evade when you’re CC’ed. Then of course is Corrupt Boon which everyone already knows about. Why does this even need to be an invisible projectile? Why can’t it function like epidemic? No other class in any game that I have played has ever had issues with skills just simple not working at critical moments.
Stuff goes here.
(edited by Kravick.4906)
Seriously, I want to know where you’re getting this 5 seconds of fear from
I think it can be achieved with reapers protection + corrupt boon on stability + DS3 + Staff 5
Seriously, I want to know where you’re getting this 5 seconds of fear from
I think it can be achieved with reapers protection + corrupt boon on stability + DS3 + Staff 5
The build Bhawb uses has double duration on Fear. He also said 4 second fear, which is Reaper’s Mark + Doom.
Edit for below: The link was in his signature, which was referenced in his post, which is also why I know Reaper’s Protection is not a factor.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
Seriously, I want to know where you’re getting this 5 seconds of fear from
I think it can be achieved with reapers protection + corrupt boon on stability + DS3 + Staff 5
The build Bhawb uses has double duration on Fear. He also said 4 second fear, which is Reaper’s Mark + Doom.
Got a link to the build? I know how to get 100% in pve/wvw, but it requires food. Maybe there is a rune set I am unaware of.
Stuff goes here.
Master of Terror = 50%
Spite = up to 30%
Various rune combinations = up to 20% (assuming the runes work)
Master of Terror = 50%
Spite = up to 30%
Various rune combinations = up to 20% (assuming the runes work)
So in other words, a hybrid build. Meh.
Stuff goes here.
That was just an example of how to accomplish 100% fear duration in PvP. Most people that I know of that use Terror builds get 70% duration, as long as it is applied after other conditions are (always should be the case for the damage boost), you have a very good chance of getting a second tick on the normally 1 second fears.
Necro’s have so many variations of pvp builds that you can use. Some more successful than others but you can do well with a ton of different things. Here are a few of the builds I play in tpvp with incredible success.
Terror/Corruption: http://tinyurl.com/bqf35du
Power D/D # 1: http://tinyurl.com/byj5vnd (more bursty)
Power D/D # 2: http://tinyurl.com/co97ebq (might stack)
QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer
(edited by Khalifahaze.6045)
Powerr invented, protected, and used build #2 extensively with his team.
Sorry to be that guy, but Powerr didn’t invent this build, nor did he even play it correctly. Going into staff and spamming 2 3 4 5 isn’t a good way to play necro ever.
It was Jaja who came up with the build.
And the build hasn’t been viable for a long time.
Powerr invented, protected, and used build #2 extensively with his team.
Sorry to be that guy, but Powerr didn’t invent this build, nor did he even play it correctly. Going into staff and spamming 2 3 4 5 isn’t a good way to play necro ever.
It was Jaja who came up with the build.
And the build hasn’t been viable for a long time.
That first power build looks promising. I just tried it in a few games and I actually feel like I was contributing. A little squishy for my tastes, though. What are the limitations of this build? What classes will typically give me the most trouble?
Stuff goes here.
That first power build looks promising. I just tried it in a few games and I actually feel like I was contributing. A little squishy for my tastes, though. What are the limitations of this build? What classes will typically give me the most trouble?
It’s a high damage build with good power and good condition damage since it’s meant to use with carrion amulet. It runs double wells with signet of undeath. It was designed to be played within a tournament structure in team fights, with good communication and peeling from teammates.
Backstab thieves will instantly kill you without any deathshroud. At high level play though, premade teams have learned to target and kill necros first and this build was one of the reasons why necros are generally the first target in a team fight. Left alone, this necro build will crush a teamfight on a regular sized node.
Necros are team fighters, not roamers or 1v1 specialists or whatever you might think. They put out large amounts of sustained DPS in big team fights, and they are one of the best classes at doing it. Once that is understood you can start to get a clearer picture of what is and isn’t viable.
The 30/30/10/0/0 is somewhat outdated. The strength of the build revolves around Wells and the extra condi duration you got from going 30 in spite. It’s pretty glassy. It’s still a nice build to bomb from the ledges on Forest though.
The most common build is still the regular condi Necro build of 0/20/10/0/20 with 20 points to float around to grab some combination of lingering curse, reaper’s protection, and foot in the grave. The bread and butter Necro build that is more or less viable on all maps.
Power Dagger Necro, which also relies on Wells to a great extent, I think is pretty good on Forest as well due to the tight choke points around keep. It synergizes very well with a Guardian in node fights as you need the protection/support the guardian offers to really get the most out of this build IMO.
I also like lettucemode’s hybrid necro. It essentially plays exactly like the condi necro but with an axe instead of scepter. The damage is higher and you have burst from fear + Axe 2, but it’s more glassy than a normal condi as axe range is shorter than scepter range and you don’t have reaper’s protection or foot in the grave. Its main strength I feel is it is a backline fighter in team fights. I was skeptical about Axe in a hybrid build at first but it’s pretty strong due to the high rate of fire from Axe 1 and 2 which leads to many Barbed Precision procs. This is one of the reasons it is strong vs Eles who focus on high toughness and low HP which gets eaten up by high damage, short duration conditions.
Not sure about MM or bunker specs, haven’t experimented with them much.
(edited by Skyro.3108)
Necromancers can run side point bunker specs very well, using either DS, staff, or minions.
Minions work well because you can still get fairly high single target damage, while having full soldier gear for 27k HP and 3k armor, with quite a lot of siphoning from the minions, and either a lot of boon stripping (really hurts eles) or poison fields (hurts everyone else).
Staff works if your team is always planning to send people to finish the fight for you at near point, or as a second weapon in bunker builds with high healing power for constant high regen application and utility.
And DS works very well because you can have a very defensive set using high LF generation, yet with 5s DS CD, you can keep perma-fury/ret, remove conditions quickly, keep about 60% weakness uptime, and still have pretty high sustained damage from ret procs and high crit chance/damage.
I’ve been testing out bunker specs that would work in the middle, the problem is that you need very high LF generation, with high healing power to keep yourself topped off, using wells to control fights, otherwise it is really easy to blow you up the second DS goes down; although that can be mostly negated if you have a support guardian throwing out boons for you.
All classes have plenty of build options. The problem is a few classes have builds that work a little too well, in particular for dealing damage or at least burst damage, and necro does not have this. You can be killed in 5 seconds as a necro and you will never kill anyone else in 5 seconds. At this point there are not going to be major changes to the game so everyone needs to just deal with it. If you want to work on anything for necro it’s to stress things that don’t work well and that no one uses. Like the falling damage poison cloud trait lol. They still seem willing to address these kinds of issues, as per SOTG and warrior kick and banners.
I’ve played 6 of the classes extensively and still play 4 of them. I play a lot of spvp. Even though it’s pretty terrible now it’s still a good way to battle test your builds against equally geared players without coughing up gold.
My still favorite pvp necro build is the same for all pvp, though I swap the skills based on what kind of pvp and what map ie how much mobility is needed and do I want Epidemic.
It’s 0/30/20/0/20 with Reaper’s Protection, Terror, Greater Marks and Master of Terror and staff/scepter, usually with focus and usually with Nightmare runes. If you want range I think this is the best Necro can do. Condition + terror is a LOT better than just condition. A tradeoff is that Death Shroud is mostly defensive with condition builds.
I see Khalifahaze posted the similar one for dagger, pull the scepter skill and put the 10 somewhere else. Axe works ok now with these builds too.
(edited by zainey.5021)
The main issue with running Necro on side points is the lack of mobility, plus MM or bunker Necro builds do not contribute as much in team fights. It’s not all about bunkering/holding a side point, it’s more about what else do you bring to the table. For example, even though a BM ranger is more tanky and a better 1v1 class than a trap ranger, you’d want a trap ranger on backpoint since they contribute more to team fights. Common back point defenders like trap rangers, Eles, and Mesmers all bring something else to the table, and none of these classes are true bunkers or top of the food chain 1v1 specs.
If they buffed Flesh Wurm teleport range enough so that you could teleport from the mid node to the back node Necro’s may be able to serve a backpoint defender role however.
I’ve played minions in PvP almost exclusively since beta. The melee minions sometimes screw up, but it is incredibly rare.
no, is not that rare.
here is another one: In downed state, sometimes the flesh golem hits your target, sometimes not, this happen half the time (it’s so good when it actually attack).
No one target the flesh golem, cause it’s not a problem in terms of damage or condition. They just have to run a little to avoid golem’s attacks, until the minion lose target.
Really, you should pay more attention.
You should pay attention. He is correct. Their ai is tied to you attacks. Two single target attacks will change their target. Their ai is very simple to grasp once you pick up the method. Unfortunately, that is tough for many of us to do. My minions are reliable 95 percent of the time. Bone minions can get wonky, and flesh golem sometimes bugs, but usually when he does its my fault.
I think the minion AI should react upon the start of your attack, not upon you hitting the enemy twice. Hitting the enemy twice is very conditional. The necro should be the one controlling the minions, not the enemies.
Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs
Again, we have a whole bunch of “builds”. Which techinically, we have the same as every other proffession, just no one really cares about naming a build that is so similar to the other one.(seriously, power builds can be varied, we get it). Every other proffession has the same type of build variations as well revolving around different profession mechanics.
-Power
-Hybrid
-Condition
-Minion
There, those are are 4 main builds with variation. If you want to name them “super ultra mega disease build” go ahead.
———————————————————
Point being is that we have a whole bunch of builds, none of which really are competitive. Our power builds basically make us the easiest class in the game to down.(seriously, what are we gonna, do, teleport to that minion we summoned? Aoe 1-second fear?, as soon as another person joins the fight, you are dead.). Not only that, we don’t do power better than the other proffessions, what is the point then?
Our conditions are weak, easily removable, and quite easy to counter with a minimal amount of condition removal/cc.
Hybrid is basically a mix of the two, “meh” if you go for damage you die quick, if you go for survival you don’t do better damage than any other professions, you die albeit a slower death.
Minion ai is awful. It just is. Its unreactive and taking 2 full hits to start them going is horrible as they aren’t exactly speedy to begin with. Melee generally can just kill them on their way and range can kite enough for them to never come into play. Please, do show me some videos of minions being even the least bit decent in pvp other than an already 2v1 fight.
——————-
SO, we have have a lot of “builds”, just none of them are better than cookie cutter builds from other professions.(much less the variations of such builds or different builds altogether).
Again, this whole point was that we have a bunch of builds, just as every proffession does. Doesn’t make us good in spvp.
(oh and that “team fight” stuff, yeah, staff ele or mesmer does the job better, or trap ranger, or guardian, or warrior really with this next patch, or engi with immobolize).
We don’t have nearly as many build choices as eles, that’s for sure. I don’t even play an ele, but right off the top of my head.
-Meteor Shower+AoEs
-Swirling Winds
-Mist Form
-D/D Ride the Lightning+Updraft
-Lightning Flash
-Healer
-Summons
-Forms and conjures
-Signets with longest recharge of 30 seconds.
Chipsy Chips(Necromancer) & Char Ashnoble(Thief)
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs
The Order of Dii[Dii]-SBI→Kaineng→TC→JQ
Necro Encyclopedia-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrAjJ1N6hxs
(edited by CHIPS.6018)
Trap Rangers, Condi Engi, and Condi Necros are the top 3 classes that serve the role of sustained AoE DPS/pressure roles. This is pretty much common knowledge. Each have their own strengths/weaknesses. To any particular class is superior to the other in this role is selling the other classes short. You’re either biased or trying to strengthen your own argument with an opinion that is not shared by many.
Mesmers and Warriors are spike DPS, and both are actually not very good in team fighters by comparison but viable in comps for different reasons.
Staff Eles are basically extinct in high lvl tPvP. The only time they were viable was pre-Evasive Arcana nerf and that was a bunker spec. I really have no idea why you even bring them up. If you honestly think they dish out more sustained AoE DPS/pressure in a team fight I don’t think any logical reasoning is going to help you.
And Guardians are the bunkers. Again, different roles.
Bottomline all of the Necro’s weaponsets are viable and each bring their own strengths and weaknesses. The spite, curses, and soul reaping line are all pretty strong relatively speaking, although there are UP’ed traits in these lines just like all classes have. Death line is highly tied to MM’s, which I won’t comment on because I’ve never seriously tested a MM spec. Blood line needs some serious work to make it viable in sPvP.
All in all Necros are great team fighters, with various builds they can use serve that role. If your argument was that we lack diversity in roles then I would agree with you.
I think the minion AI should react upon the start of your attack, not upon you hitting the enemy twice. Hitting the enemy twice is very conditional. The necro should be the one controlling the minions, not the enemies.
They react upon the start of the cast of your second ability. Meaning if you auto attack once, then do something like focus 5 with a long cast, they will aggro on the beginning of the cast, not when the enemy is actually hit by it.
There are also the more humble general purpose use builds.
I keep a variety of armor sets in my bags to adjust to the group mix but I have found it easier to assign trait points where the skills offer the most flexibility rather than maximize for one particular build. I never know what I’ll get in a pick-up group. Putting 20 into Death Magic is a priority because that line is filled with a variety of useful things.
Right now, I am 10/20/20/20/0 just for general use. I can run minions, wells, staff, chill, and little bits of other things. Most weapons are not optimal, though, but I have a lot of utility for different situations like this.
I think the minion AI should react upon the start of your attack, not upon you hitting the enemy twice. Hitting the enemy twice is very conditional. The necro should be the one controlling the minions, not the enemies.
They react upon the start of the cast of your second ability. Meaning if you auto attack once, then do something like focus 5 with a long cast, they will aggro on the beginning of the cast, not when the enemy is actually hit by it.
dagger auto attack wont make minions to start their attack if you are not in melee range. your attack must be succesfull or they will do nothing
That isn’t accurate. You need to land one attack, then start another attack. For example auto attacking once with dagger, then casting focus 5 will begin aggro the instant focus 5 starts casting; even if focus 5 is interrupted for any reason, they will continue attacking.
Bone minions can get wonky, and flesh golem sometimes bugs, but usually when he does its my fault.
so… now it’s our own fault if the game bugs, yeah that makes sense.
if you are right, usually I could avoid it, but other times… simply not.
I’m not that mad at minion’s AI. I just wanna read a post from devs that say something like this: “we know necro minion´s AI needs some love and we are working on it”
That isn’t accurate. You need to land one attack, then start another attack. For example auto attacking once with dagger, then casting focus 5 will begin aggro the instant focus 5 starts casting; even if focus 5 is interrupted for any reason, they will continue attacking.
you’ve done some sirious test o.O. I’ll try this
They have been working on our AI since launch, it has improved noticeably since then (Flesh Golem used to carry an immense hatred for life at launch, he’d chase anything that moved all the way across maps until he or it died).
And yeah, I’ve spent many hours testing minion AI. I’m making a video about it soon enough, once I figure out how to get it all done.
For 1 v 1 pvp, the terror build is hands down probably the best build to run, just for the control. An enemy cannot remove the conditions when you are fearing them ever 10 -15 seconds, and when your bleeds are ticking at 150 with 10+ stacks, that hurts. I also like the terror build in 5 v 5.
For WvW 15 man settings I run a power build (5/20/25/20/0) to get some survivability, but also to get wells on low cooldowns, and staff skills (greater marks, faster staff cooldowns)
I don’t like the zerker build in wvw as much because you’ll be dodging a lot and I don’t fancy getting hit for 8k backstabs, or confusion burned in 5 seconds.
I have not run minions ever in wvw, and if i see someone running minions i would advise them against it. maybe its ok for 1 v 1s, but in a group fight, the aoe alone will destroy them in 2 seconds and the damage they do, if they MANAGE to attack is paultry, and then your stuck without 3 utility skills.
Bhawb, the fact that you have to do your above rotation to even get mobs to attack, is completely inane. they should all attack my target immediately on the first attack. Thus i drop a well, they attack. simple. the yellow mobs do it… i drop a well, and they attack me. i use any skill, the mob turns red and attacks. Seems to me the same mechanic could apply to the minions. I press any button and damage an opponent, they attack my target.
(edited by Gryph.8237)
The mobs are responding to a personal attack on them, minions will respond in the same way to damage.
I don’t need to do a “rotation”, I just need to attack the person with single target abilities twice. That isn’t a huge issue, I really hope that everyone in a fight is planning on attacking their enemy at least twice. Why don’t they attack on the first hit? Probably so you can pull enemies even with minions out; attack the mob, get the pull, then when he gets close attack again for minion aggro. Why don’t minions aggro on AoE? I imagine either because there is no way for them to magically know which of the 5 people you hit to attack, or because you aren’t truly targetting anything (note that they will begin aggro on staff marks, they just will not change aggro).
The reasons for their patterns make absolute sense, and if we did not have that limited control we would be far worse off. The problem is that most people think that they can just pick up minions and magically make them work without any effort. You need to learn minion AI just like you need to learn how to use any other build out there.