Guild Wars 2

A few things Ive been wondering about:

How important is chill for a power necro? Aka berserker. I see so many slotting Chilling Nova as well Deathly Chill, which seems a bit odd to me, given that a greatsword is not exactly a condi weapon. Plus you have nonexistent numbers of +condi damage, and the blabber ive heard of chill not stacking terribly well in groups. – Blighters Boon seems potentially more useful for gaining lifeforce faster when stacking might, and running 6x strenght runes as I am. Thinking to get a sigil of strenght as well.

And what options does necros have for moving faster? Signet of the Locust seems to be an easy choice, but eats an utility slot. Tried out dagger for a while cause of Quickening Thirst in blood, but pretty much locks you to blood magic and id rather run death or soul reaping as second choice beside spite. Then theres Speed of shadows for shroud only. Did I miss anything?

How useful is Chill of Death in the spite line? I heard it have an icd of 20s. Plus with enemy boons being pretty much nonexistent in pve, it packs quite low damage. Yet I keep seeing it chosen all the time in builds listed. Not a pvper myself. I can understand the use and need for it for ripping boons in pvp.

Slotting chill traits is because there is nothing else to get. Camping in RS is lower damage then dagger auto, so Deathly Chill is pretty much the only option in terms of best possible dps.
Necro has warhorn.
Again, chill of death is taken because there is nothing else.

Are you saying that the Reapers shroud damage is too low to be worth fighting in shroud for extended periods of time?

Then what really is the draw of Reaper if the shroud damage is poor, and dagger does better damage than GS?

Correct, you only go into Shroud to fire off the spells that are a dps increase and then you shift back out.

Reapershroud comes with 5 spells, not just an autoattack. The real draw of the Reaper is Deecimate Defenses trait.

But your confusion is somewhat warrented. You wouldn’t expect the Power Reaper to take the EXACT same traits as the Condition Reaper in the Reaper line. And they are clearly Condition indented. Honestly it’s a bit poorly designed. Basicly it means that at least Reaper’s Onslaught isn’t good enough. This is all talking with mostly raid conditions in mind

I see. Then it must be Soul Spiral that is the big draw of RS, with Executioners Scythe if below 25%. And the ocasional charge if the situation warrants it. As well stability on demand.

Then I can see why you dont want Blighters Boon, nor Reapers Onslaught.

Soul Eater is a definite trap talent, since if you only use Grave Digger sub 50%, then it refreshes automatically. Though does Augury of Death not have any usefullness if you depend on shouts?

LucianDK.8615:

Are you saying that the Reapers shroud damage is too low to be worth fighting in shroud for extended periods of time?

Then what really is the draw of Reaper if the shroud damage is poor, and dagger does better damage than GS?

Shroud is a defensive option. You enter it if you need a shield, some mobility, and Stability. It’s also useful for tearing through Break Bars. And the damage isn’t bad, it just isn’t ideal.

As for Dagger, the Dagger auto is our strongest direct damage attack when the target is above 50% health and Gravedigger is our strongest attack when the target is below 50% health. This is an intended trade-off. The Greatsword wasn’t supposed to be just our best weapon in every situation.

I know the greatsword is not always ideal. Though I find it hard to not have a ranged option on swap, such as an Axe, due to some of the melee hate mobs and encounters in hot.

If taking the warhorn, do you then usually take the trait that bolsters it? Im seeing you can get almost perma uptime on swiftness.

LucianDK.8615:

I know the greatsword is not always ideal. Though I find it hard to not have a ranged option on swap, such as an Axe, due to some of the melee hate mobs and encounters in hot.

The difference between Greatsword and Dagger above 50% isn’t so extreme that I feel obligated to take Dagger (nor would I feel obligated to take Greatsword if I were going Dagger/?). Some people swear by full melee, but it isn’t necessary. If you want to go Greatsword + Axe/?, that’s still totally fine.

LucianDK.8615:

If taking the warhorn, do you then usually take the trait that bolsters it? Im seeing you can get almost perma uptime on swiftness.

No. The Warhorn trait is in the Blood line and it competes with Vampiric Presence, which is pretty great both for you and for your allies (it also heals you while in Shroud, making for pretty spectacular sustain). More importantly, Quickening Thirst compares favorably to the other Minor Adept traits in Blood, so you’ll have +25% movement speed all the time anyway. Banshee’s Wail is not a bad trait at all, I just find its placement unfortunate.

Hrm, speculating for daggeroffhand then for a more reliable speedboost. Sure 5 is a condi attack, but 4 looks like a pretty good condi removal and still allowing me to retain a ranged option in axe.

Having an axe would also make unholy fervor a sound alternative to chill of death, no?

Edit:

I did not see a response to this one. If you rely on shouts, doesnt Augury of Death have value by making them cycle more often?

If you use sup runes of strenght, does a sigil of strenght on wep have use to help generating might? I currently use air and force.

Finally, what would you say is the use for 4 and 5 on greatsword? So far ive been threating 5 as an aoe pull, and 4 as an aoe attack. Am I right?

LucianDK.8615:

Hrm, speculating for daggeroffhand then for a more reliable speedboost. Sure 5 is a condi attack, but 4 looks like a pretty good condi removal and still allowing me to retain a ranged option in axe.

For power builds using Dagger as their primary weapon, you can actually use any offhand weapon depending on the situation.

/Dagger is the purely defensive option. The condi transfer on 4 is obvious, but 5 is still useful for the Weakness (this is primarily how condi builds use it, too).

/Warhorn is our highest-damage option since 5 can give up to 50 hits untraited, which adds up to a lot of damage even if it’s slower and less visible. 4 is also spectacular for dealing with Break Bars, making this the best option in most circumstances.

/Focus 4 has the highest single-target burst if you’re righting just one target. 5 isn’t usually worth casting unless you need to trip off significant Might stacks or Protection, but in their of those cases, it’s amazing.

Again, your choice of off-hand weapon should vary depending on the encounter. D/W is always going to be useful, but sometimes D/D or D/F will be better.

LucianDK.8615:

Having an axe would also make unholy fervor a sound alternative to chill of death, no?

Yep. Chill of Death is a good trait but I generally prefer the reliability of Unholy Fervor. It really depends on how important ranged is to a given fight. Ideally you’d switch between them depending on the content, or maybe even go with Rending Shroud if you wanted more melee damage.

LucianDK.8615:

I did not see a response to this one. If you rely on shouts, doesnt Augury of Death have value by making them cycle more often?

It does. I personally prefer Augury of Death to Chilling Nova on Power builds.

LucianDK.8615:

If you use sup runes of strenght, does a sigil of strenght on wep have use to help generating might? I currently use air and force.

Sigil of Strength is overkill. We can already get ourselves to high Might stacks over the course of any serious fight, so add in any Might gained from allies and you end up wasting the Sigil slot (and a couple of gold). I’m experimenting with Sigil of Hydromancy right now, though that’s largely because I’m bored of Sigil of Air/Fire.

LucianDK.8615:

Finally, what would you say is the use for 4 and 5 on greatsword? So far ive been threating 5 as an aoe pull, and 4 as an aoe attack. Am I right?

4 is worth casting for the DPS increase alone, though I generally try to save it for the Blinds or the combo field (Gravedigger is a Whirl finisher, so you get Leeching Bolts every time you use it). 5’s mostly about the CC, but it can fail if the terrain is a bit off so I avoid relying on it. At least the cast time isn’t very long.

Some good stuff there. But im pretty much set on using axe as mainhand on switch, due to needing a ranged option. With GS being the melee option. Just too many moments with melee hate till i can do without a ranged option at all.

Ive tried dagger as main weapon, but gs just feels more satisfying to use. Plus it is a pretty large draw of the Reaper. Im pretty close to having unlocked Dark Harvest, just missing the auric sharpening stone. But only having 2/5 exalted mastery yet, and Im working on finishing ley line gliding first.

LucianDK.8615:

Some good stuff there. But im pretty much set on using axe as mainhand on switch, due to needing a ranged option. With GS being the melee option. Just too many moments with melee hate till i can do without a ranged option at all.

That’s fine! I usually run Greatsword+Axe/? in my power reaper builds as well. Axe also works well with any of the offhand weapons, though Warhorn is less useful generally since you won’t want to be in melee range for long periods of time while using an Axe (literally any melee option is better). My preference is Focus for the ranged damage, but /Dagger can work well too.

LucianDK.8615:

Ive tried dagger as main weapon, but gs just feels more satisfying to use. Plus it is a pretty large draw of the Reaper.

For my money, Blood Magic is really what makes the mainhand Dagger special. It can proc our vampire traits extremely well and pairs very nicely with Wells. It’s hard to fit Blood Magic into Reaper builds, though, so I mostly stick with GS.

LucianDK.8615:

Im pretty close to having unlocked Dark Harvest, just missing the auric sharpening stone. But only having 2/5 exalted mastery yet, and Im working on finishing ley line gliding first.

I just unlocked Dark Harvest last night! I’m not really a fan of the skin itself (it doesn’t mesh well with my Necro’s aesthetic and I generally prefer clean lines anyway), but the particle effects when you swing it are very, very nice. I may re-skin it back to Cobalt, but I’m trying to give it a chance to grow on me first.

You dont use reaper as a daggermancer?

And dark harvest is a free ascended greatsword, still using an exotic.

But I am curious, if you dont use dagger or blood as a reaper, then how do you get your speedboost?

LucianDK.8615:

You dont use reaper as a daggermancer?

Nope. You give up so much damage by dropping Spite and I’ve become kinda addicted to Foot in the Grave. This means Blood has to go, and I don’t enjoy Dagger nearly as much if I can’t abuse its bajillion-life-siphon-proc potential.

LucianDK.8615:

But I am curious, if you dont use dagger or blood as a reaper, then how do you get your speedboost?

Signet of the Locust. The active is actually pretty good in its own right, rivaling a full heal skill if you can hit 4-5 targets.

So you give up Decimate defenses as a daggermancer. Point at Signet of the locust, though I thought ppl prefered signet of spite instead. What is your other utility choices then?

LucianDK.8615:

So you give up Decimate defenses as a daggermancer

You don’t have to, you can go Spite/BM/Reaper, Dagger/x and Greatsword. I’ve been running without Soul Reaping for a while now just fine.

LucianDK.8615:

So you give up Decimate defenses as a daggermancer. Point at Signet of the locust, though I thought ppl prefered signet of spite instead. What is your other utility choices then?

For Spite/SR/Reaper, I usually run YSIM, Rise!, Suffer!, Signet of the Locust, and Chilled to the Bone. For my vampire build, I usually go Consume Conditions/Signet of Vampirism, Well of Suffering, Well of Power, and Summon Flesh Golem, with one free Utility slot (usually Well of Darkness, Well of Corruption, or Corrosive Poison Cloud).

Skoigoth.9238:

LucianDK.8615:

So you give up Decimate defenses as a daggermancer

You don’t have to, you can go Spite/BM/Reaper, Dagger/x and Greatsword. I’ve been running without Soul Reaping for a while now just fine.

Yeah I’m not trying to say you have to go Spite/SR/Reaper, just my preference is to drop Reaper before Soul Reaping. I really, really like having that 7- or 10-second cooldown stunbreaker.

I use Runes of the Traveler for my movement speed. Also, I tend to use Augury of Death over Chilling Nova in order to get more use out of Shouts. Suffer and YAAW are a great combination for stacking Might in a big burst while rebuilding your life force pool, and I try to use Rise on cooldown for the damage reduction. It makes for an obviously melee-centered power build, yes, but I honestly don’t feel as if anyone’s damage can be called terrible at 25 stacks of Might.

Blaine Tog.8304:

LucianDK.8615:

You dont use reaper as a daggermancer?

Nope. You give up so much damage by dropping Spite and I’ve become kinda addicted to Foot in the Grave. This means Blood has to go, and I don’t enjoy Dagger nearly as much if I can’t abuse its bajillion-life-siphon-proc potential.

LucianDK.8615:

But I am curious, if you dont use dagger or blood as a reaper, then how do you get your speedboost?

Signet of the Locust. The active is actually pretty good in its own right, rivaling a full heal skill if you can hit 4-5 targets.

Help me out here, see by taking spite i will have to drop curses meaning i drop plague sending and MoC meaning my cleansing and healing goes to S***. Cant let this happen because the class cannot play in a certain way to compensate for that loss unlike other classes.

If i take plague signet, i will have to drop “Nothing can save you” which would be bad because DH and revenant would be virtually impossible to deal with without it. Again unlike other classes the class cannot play in a certain way to avoid this loss.

I am running a power build with berserker ammy D/D and GS with rune of speed. D/D because i need the transfer and blind with all the conditions since the class cannot play in a way that can avoid them unlike other classes. GS because the skills are really useful when fighting multiple melee players. Rune of speed because the class is unbearably slow without it.

Is there some power build i am not aware of that can drop all these things and is capable of outplaying conditions, multiple people, kites, mobile players, negate chains and stealth like every other class (except warrior).

With this league going on and after investing all my PVE progress in this class I am very close to hunting the person responsible for this design and tossing him/her in a dumpster.

Ragion.2831:

Help me out here, see by taking spite i will have to drop curses meaning i drop plague sending and MoC meaning my cleansing and healing goes to S***. Cant let this happen because the class cannot play in a certain way to compensate for that loss unlike other classes.

If you’re playing a power build, you don’t so much “have to” drop Curses as “get to.” It’s not a great trait line. It’s barely worth taking for condition damage builds. I don’t usually subscribe to the idea that one can play the game wrong, but taking Curses as a powermancer would be coming close.

But I’ll bite. You’re worried about healing and condition removal, right?

Well for self-condition removal, no profession in the game does this more easily than the Necromancer. Some combination of Consume Conditions, Staff 4, Dagger 4, Suffer!, and Well of Power should easily cover whatever condition removal you need, and that’s not even all the condi cleanse/transfer we have. I find more than one or two condi cleanses to be overkill for most PvE content. We can even make use of Runes of the Soldier/Trooper if you’re a Reaper for even more incidental condi removal. Seriously, getting rid of condis is so much easier as a Necromancer than as almost anyone else.

As for Healing, CC is a perfectly good heal even when untraited, though Signet of Vampirism can be quite good in group situations as well and Your Soul Is Mine is great as well. Outside of those, we have the entire Blood Magic line (which does a tremendously good job of sustaining you between heal skills), Unholy Sanctuary (haven’t tested this one extensively, but the numbers seem neat), and, of course, Blighter’s Boon, which does a very good job of healing even in spite of the nerf. We, again, actually have much better self-healing than just about anyone else. The only exceptions I can really think of are the Elementalist, the Guardian, and Engineers who abuse water fields, but none of those professions have a second health bar to hide under when their first health bar gets low.

What the other professions do have are better ways to avoid getting hit in the first place: blocks, evasions, invulnerability effects, mobility, etc. This means our healing and condi cleanse effects need to be much more robust to compensate, and while I’l not sure the difference is exactly as big as it needs to be, it’s flatly incorrect to say we’re worse at clearing condis or healing up than the other professions.

Ragion.2831:

With this league going on and after investing all my PVE progress in this class I am very close to hunting the person responsible for this design and tossing him/her in a dumpster.

I have a level 80 character for each profession. It really isn’t that had to whip up another character in a profession you enjoy more if you’re finding the Necro not really your style, particularly if your primary interest is in PvP.

Speaking of PvP, I’ve barely touched the game mode, but I will say I’ve had pretty good luck so far with a Spite/SR/Reaper build running Soldier’s amulet, and Runes of the Soldier/Trooper. It takes some very serious focus to bring me down, and I still deal pretty good damage… except against Rangers. Not sure how to deal with them, exactly. Mostly I just try to move on to other targets.

Im not saying Necros are worse at cleansing at healing because that is just untrue. I am saying that every other class has the ability to be effective while overcoming their weaknesses.

A well played thief can actually outplay 3 or 4 people without spamming stealth. It is hard, very hard to do but if you have the composure it is possible, when I use the class i definitely feel anything is possible as long as I very quickly make the right choices. The same goes for revenant. I don’t have much first hand experience with the other classes but just from my experience playing against them all those negate chains evades and mobility skills make those classes very flexible at overcoming many situations as long as the player makes the right choices very quickly.

Necro is a complete disaster of a class at doing this. The class feels like it has been stripped naked and wrapped around with bricks. It is always vulnerable, any other class handled by a competent player can make a necro do what he/she wants. I know this because i have been on both sides.

What im asking for is a build, any build that allows me to outplay under any circumstance. Like the way thief can. I have never run Shadow refuge, hidden thief or short bow so if i make too many wrong decisions i will die a lot but I found that these three things are not necessary if I kite properly, attack the right target properly, switch to a different target at the right time and most importantly, use the map terrain properly I can do some pretty insane stuff especially thanks to the DD elite.

Seriously ive tried everything, every build is always lacking something because the class cant use movement to compensate. Some of the cooldowns are too long, some skills are very luck oriented while some just put you in this impossible position where you need to use it to stay alive but you have to do something else at the same time to stay alive. I seriously need this class to work, too much is on it for me to just swap. So im just looking for a PVP build.

Ragion.2831:

Im not saying Necros are worse at cleansing at healing because that is just untrue. I am saying that every other class has the ability to be effective while overcoming their weaknesses.

A well played thief can actually outplay 3 or 4 people without spamming stealth. It is hard, very hard to do but if you have the composure it is possible, when I use the class i definitely feel anything is possible as long as I very quickly make the right choices. The same goes for revenant. I don’t have much first hand experience with the other classes but just from my experience playing against them all those negate chains evades and mobility skills make those classes very flexible at overcoming many situations as long as the player makes the right choices very quickly.

Necro is a complete disaster of a class at doing this. The class feels like it has been stripped naked and wrapped around with bricks. It is always vulnerable, any other class handled by a competent player can make a necro do what he/she wants. I know this because i have been on both sides.

What im asking for is a build, any build that allows me to outplay under any circumstance. Like the way thief can. I have never run Shadow refuge, hidden thief or short bow so if i make too many wrong decisions i will die a lot but I found that these three things are not necessary if I kite properly, attack the right target properly, switch to a different target at the right time and most importantly, use the map terrain properly I can do some pretty insane stuff especially thanks to the DD elite.

Seriously ive tried everything, every build is always lacking something because the class cant use movement to compensate. Some of the cooldowns are too long, some skills are very luck oriented while some just put you in this impossible position where you need to use it to stay alive but you have to do something else at the same time to stay alive. I seriously need this class to work, too much is on it for me to just swap. So im just looking for a PVP build.

unfortunately, I agree. For pvp my team is the following comp:

necro
necro
mes
ele
engi

and we’re pretty balanced together, fairly successful. Had a strong 11 win streak in ranked, then got a loss on a stacked double rev double necro condi team that just cheesed condi stacking and blew us away, and with the nerfed plaque sig its too much to push off. even timing condi transfers and bubbles, we’re looking at condi stacking so fast, can’t even press a button fast enough before going down. we continued to win a few, but the next day and day after that, we starting seeing a lot more cheese comps just decimating ranked matches..

triple DH trappers denying caps out of sheer burst and the cheese chain grab->trap which is unavoidable.

double revs running around focusing under mesmers

diamond skin twin comps combined with DH trappers, etc.

plenty of cheese comps out there, and most times we swap and play sides to avoid those unfortunate stackups. Sometimes we pull through and win by good teamwork, but a lot of time if not most, its like playing against unstoppable combos.

sometimes the class just feels like its useless against certain builds. there’s little room if none at all to simply excel by skill alone. It would be nice to stretch outside the box and be able to do more than just bring weak condi pressure and chills to the fight, albeit there are some poison and interrupts we can get in, but most of the time we’re walking health bubbles that get focused w/o any way to push people off.

edit:

here’s the three builds I run:

Bunker/Soldier – Sustains well and brings the chill, interrupts, and healing for teamfights but near zero damage input means can’t take down most if not all meta builds in games current state

Marauder fighter – even when bringing full on condition transfer tools to the table, zero chance agaist condition stacked teams. can fight well enough, but still suffers from no active blocking and mitigation, which it seems like other classes are rolling an abundance of.

Condi flavors – cele/carrion/viper/etc – Can bring the condi pressure, chills, poisons, some builds bring the burn+weak power pressure, but will fold under condi stacked teams, or two players with a lot of interrupts since our toolset is slow and easy to see telegraphing.