Guild Wars 2

130 range no cleave is just /facepalm on a class like a necro that is very immobile. It needs SOMETHING. Either a range boost to 300ish range like ele dagger has, or ability to hit three targets (without extra LF gain). Something to make it not a complete chore to use in both PVE (because no cleave) and PVP (because such short range).

Dagger necro isn’t even so much bad as just such a chore to use because of the meaninglessli limited dagger 1. It just feels clunky. Completely different than any other dagger class. There’s absolutely no reason it needs to be the most limited auto attack in the game.

Yukishiro.8792:

130 range no cleave is just /facepalm on a class like a necro that is very immobile. It needs SOMETHING. Either a range boost to 300ish range like ele dagger has, or ability to hit three targets (without extra LF gain). Something to make it not a complete chore to use in both PVE (because no cleave) and PVP (because such short range).

Dagger necro isn’t even so much bad as just such a chore to use because of the meaninglessli limited dagger 1. It just feels clunky. Completely different than any other dagger class. There’s absolutely no reason it needs to be the most limited auto attack in the game.

Dagger has 1 root, focus has 1 chill, staff has 1 chill, dark path has a 5 1/2 second chill and teleports you to them….

Learn to use CC at the right moment and pick the right offhands for what you are trying to do. Even warhorn could give you the tools to not be kited, and if you are building for dagger/dagger DPS you can get a +15% movement speed trait (ok its not in the DPS tree but it still is there)

I have absolutely no problems with dagger in PvE or WvW.

It isn’t about getting kited per se. The problem is the spec is meaninglessly static compared to other dagger specs, because of the meaninglessly restrictive auto attack. Play a dagger elementalist for about 30 seconds and you’ll see what I mean. Making dagger auto attack either cleave or have 300 range wouldn’t overpower it. It would just make it much less of a chore to use.

P.S. That trait is a 10% movement increase, not 15%. It doesn’t stack.

Yeah the dagger does feel a bit better on ele I suppose since it can hit more then 1 thing.

I just feel like we already have decent AoE potential with staff/wells/epedemic. Then again so does ele so thats a moot point.

I would be for this if they didn’t nerf the single target damage since thats what I am using it for. I only wonder though would that make dagger OP?

I think the weapon that needs the most work right now is the Axe. Its ability 1 is just terrible (I mean common, I already can get 9 stacks of vuln + regen with focus by hitting 1 button). 2 is a good life force gainer but 3 is extremely situtional and lacks synergy with other things you would be doing at the time you used it.

Personally, I like the idea of a necromancer getting in there and shivving things up close. I think the real problem dagger #2. It takes too long to use it, and the life steal is barely noticeable. If it were like an instant lifetap or just simply faster casting, that would make dagger much more fun.

Needs a reliable gap closer. Dark path needs to boost range to 1200 and projectile travel speed increase or put a gap closer on Dark Pact and leave dark path broken. Autoattack chain is dull beyond words. Eles/thieves have it right. If you are going to make it so the whole chain doesnt cleave at least make the finisher cleave and do something interesting.

Cleave I could see, but I love the melee attack of the daggers, I personally would have to see a range increase, as being melee in their face works way better for me with wells, and the fact that they don’t expect a necro to be in their grill circle strafing them.

300 range is still effectively melee range, it’s just not quite so punishing. It means you can actually take a step sideways now and then without getting the out of range message. It is what most of the elementalist dagger skills have for range and it works very well.

I try to get into dagger on necro but I just can’t, particularly in PVE, because it’s so clunky. Having to effectively stand close to still at 130 range just to deal damage to a single target is really awful compared to the playstyle of other dagger classes.

I would toss my vote in for 300 range as well. Like Yuki has stated it is still well within melee range but gives just a slight room for movement that I think daggers deserves.

I felt that way at first, so i leveled with the axe, then after being about lvl40 or so I went back to dagger and love it. granted I am a tank/support build so I don’t mind being up in the face on my targets.

I also vote for 300 range, if not cleave, at least let it hit as hard.

I would rather they just hit multiple targets at the same short range they are at (with maybe a damage increase). We have gap closers and CC. increase range simple makes us lazy. Allowing necros to hit multiple targets will increase the Necrobomb power, substantially, while still keeping the skill ceiling elevated and a use for DS abilities.

and while we are on this topic. Axe should be given an attack similar to the trident 1. to form better synergy with axe 3.

Hmm I understand your guys view, I personally am never standing still while fighting with he daggers, I am constantly circle strafing to the back of an opponent, so I don’t have an issue and I rather enjoy it, but I understand your points.

Making something 300 range doesn’t mean you can’t circle strafe or make you lazy. In fact, it means you can do so without losing dps if they step sideways for half a second while you’re doing it. It also raises the skill cap because it allows you to stay outside strict melee range while still doing dps.

But I agree adding cleave would be a decent solution too. It’s just that right now it’s IIRC the only 130 range weapon in the game with no cleave. Does thief dagger not cleave? If so I guess that’s another but again thieves are very different because they have vastly more mobility, much of it built into those very dagger skills.

if you try and hit hovering objects at 0 range the skill 3 will miss most of the times…

I think they should keep the range short but make it an aoe effect, like your slashing all enemies around you. It fits the intention of a short ranged skill, it fixes the problem of enemies moving around and causing you to miss as long as you keep them close, plus it makes us much more dangerous if we run in the middle of a big group to dps.

I actually use dagger 1 all the time, it does very nice damage with a power / critical build, especially if you stack some bleeds first.

I got a general problem in using dagger #1 against any class that also has melee attacks. One reason is these other classes not only have a melee autoattack but the other skills #2-#5 are also often melee range and these hit hard and sometimes knock you down or stun/immobilize you. When fighting a melee class you try to stay out of melee range and kite them, however #1 forces you to step into melee range and once you do that they unload their powerful #2-#5 skills and do much more damage to you than you can do to them with your #1 autoattack. And since the necro also has the lowest armor and no real escape ability, stepping into melee range against other melees for some #1 autoattacks is not worth the risk in my experience. It works great against classes that have no melee attacks or against players that only have ranged weapons equipped, however even rangers or mesmers with sword outdamage the necro in melee.

Cleave Dagger would be absurdly, brokenly overpowered if it maintained the current Life Force generation that it has.

And at this point, I honestly don’t even know if Arenanet has the code to make it so that the primary target would be the only one that you’re gaining Life Force from.

The dagger combo is actually very strong, you guys need to learn how to trait and spec yourselves properly. You should also learn how to use Death Shroud correctly. If you aren’t top score every game with daggers, reroll.

The necromancer’s dagger auto attack chain is honestly quite decent as is when used correctly, so I don’t really think cleave is needed, hell, how do you hit three people with a stabbing attack with a dagger?

Extra range I don’t think is needed either, if you have your other abilities setup properly, but it would really benefit from any extra range it can get, as it is a little unforgiving when up against tougher melee classes due to being out classed in raw damage potential.

The main issue I have with the dagger is its life steal ability, in PvE it works fine, but in any PvP situation its rather long channel time is a serious issue, because if you compare the health you gain and the damage you inflict compared to the damage and life force gain of the auto attack of the auto attack (also keeping in mind the other playing is going to be trying to kill as well), it’s usually much more practical for me to simply auto attack, except against inexperienced melee players… where it doesn’t matter anyway. If life siphon either worked twice as fast, or wasn’t a channel (ie: you could do other actions while it does its thing) it would be far more useful, in my opinion. If anyone thinks that would be to strong, then I could more then live with having a longer cool down.

@Shredicus.8706 Dark pact would be to powerful if it teleported you to your target like the thief’s Infiltrator’s Strike, which has the same range and damage, but only immobilizes for 1 second. being able to teleport to them and stab them in the back for 3 seconds, as fun as it sounds is to much. As is you can easily close the gap with those 2 extra seconds of immobilize, casting some other ability as you do so, or simply punish them if used while already on them.
Having dark path with more range/faster would be nice though, but having spectral grasp move faster and simply work more reliably I think would be more significant.

I would like it to hit multiple targets for quality of life in pve. Sure thief dagger is not aoe but it has a lot harder-hitting abilities on it, and ele dagger is aoe.

I think the life siphon is fine for pve, but they supposedly balance around pvp and it is too weak here imo. It’s a channel and risky since easily dodged/interrupted, it should heal or damage for a lot more.

I’m using dagger 1 fine without cleave. Turn off lock target, use the traits that gives you enfeebling blood, retaliation and fury on DS (all from the power/pres line) and just double-tap DS and then unleach your dagger 1 autoattack to win. It seriously does more/comparable damage to my guardian using her spin attack.

I’d like to see dagger 1 have a range increase to 300 and dagger 2 to complete the channel a little faster than it does.

Axe 1 to have a boost to the power coefficient (If axe 1 did about 20% more damage than it does, base, it’d be probably around where it should be. It needs that kind of boost) and Axe 3 should be instant.

That’d be some decent stuff and certainly wouldn’t make dagger or axe necros some huge terror out on the field.

Minion of Vey.4398:

I’d like to see dagger 1 have a range increase to 300 and dagger 2 to complete the channel a little faster than it does.

Axe 1 to have a boost to the power coefficient (If axe 1 did about 20% more damage than it does, base, it’d be probably around where it should be. It needs that kind of boost) and Axe 3 should be instant.

That’d be some decent stuff and certainly wouldn’t make dagger or axe necros some huge terror out on the field.

Isn’t our class based around being a terror? I definitely agree on the changes to the axe. It’s not viable for ANY build and is an absolutely useless weapon because of it’s horrid speed. Dagger 2 channeling faster would definitely be awesome as well.

i think the problem with dagger 1 is that it is a 130 range move on a class with 1 gap closer which is only available in death shroud.

i really think axe should have been our melee weapon (with cleave) and dagger should have been our mid ranged weapon single target weapon. I also think dagger 2 is to similar to axe 2.

i went dagger dagger now i feel like a thief without the insane damage but a much higher hp pool

yes

i feel like a thief

with no damage

besides u get nice crunch when u crit with dagger what more do you want

Xherra.1639:

The dagger combo is actually very strong, you guys need to learn how to trait and spec yourselves properly. You should also learn how to use Death Shroud correctly. If you aren’t top score every game with daggers, reroll.

I wish at least here in the necro forum the morons would stop posting their generic l2p comments devoid of any substance.

It seems necro dagger do not get aoe because dagger do not grant aoe as a rule. So instead of making an exception for necros, how about replacing dagger with sword? Optionally still holding it reverse grip and using the same general animation.

Ezekeel, how about you just learn to play the hardest class in the game and quit whining?

Yeah, exactly these comments I was talking about.

How about instead of your generic l2p comments which are of no use to anyone, you try to post something helpful like a build or a video which shows how you tackle the problems mentioned in this thread.

I used to think that the dagger was up but I’m not so sure anymore. It can hit like a truck and builds a lot of death shroud, I’m going to have to disagree with the op, for now…

+1 Parakeet

Im sure I could, but then Id have to fight my own build, too selfish for that. Not going to ruin my fun killing everyone. Last game went 32-0 kills. So fun.

I love the dagger for parakeets reason, I always have full life shroud and it hits like a train.

Xherra.1639:

+1 Parakeet

Im sure I could, but then Id have to fight my own build, too selfish for that. Not going to ruin my fun killing everyone. Last game went 32-0 kills. So fun.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Today I solo’d the Blue Lord all while tanking two thieves, giving Svanir a wedgie and destroying the enemy trebuchet.

And? All that is easy mode. OMG I hit an object that just sits there.

Won’t let me quote for some reason, but @ the person who said no daggers cleave:

They just changed ele lightning dagger to hit 3 targets like 3 days ago – AND it has 300 range. Given that precedent I really don’t see what’s wrong with giving necro dagger either 300 range OR cleave. If they want to make it “hit three targets” cleave instead of true cleave that’s fine. I don’t think it really matters.

The point is just that necro dagger for some strange reason is the most limited melee attack in the game. Thief dagger is also 130 range no cleave but thief dagger has a gap closer built into dagger 2 and sort of into dagger 3, which also cleaves. Not to mention access to cleaving melee weapons too.

Right now dagger necro just feels so static compared to other melee classes. Not to mention it’s a total chore in PVE not being able to either stay out of mob melee range OR hit multiple targets.

if remove LifeForceGain or slow it down for a 300range or cleave, do u agree?
of course no
yes, these are great advantages over the daggers.
Fastest Life Force Gain is most important in WvW and sPvP. the faster u gain Life Force the more hp u have, at least.
Fastest attack speed benefits sigils of weapon such as XX% to XXX on critical. More attacks more crits thats true.
On that basis, u wanna a buff. this leads OP/IMBA!