Guild Wars 2

Hi all,

I started using the fear of death trait for some days just for the fun of it. To those that are too lazy to check it, it’s the trait that cast an AoE fear when you are downed.

I didn’t do any specific test yet, but in WvW it happen often that my fear doesn’t seems to go off.

I get downed, have 3 people around me without stability, and nothing happens. Sometime only one of them goes running, other aren’t affected. Sometime they all run in fear.

I try to do a stability check, they don’t seem to have it. It’s not on cooldown as I rarely get downed twice in 90 second. :P

Is it sharing cooldown Reaper’s Protection (fear on CC 90 sec CD)?

Also, 1 sec fear on downed state seems a bit lackluster if you ask me, even AoE. Why?
I know, 1 sec fear isn’t bad to buy some time when you got downed. The issue is the timing. Because the fear seems to cast while you are stil invulnerable from getting downed. So the fear finish, right in time for them to start stomping you.

I have 2 sec fear duration from traits/food, and by the time I can see my Downedstats UI, the fear duration is nearly over.

So from this trait, I have like 0.5 sec more in downstate. And for that, I have to spend traits in fear duration, food and maybe rune. When it works..

What do you guys think?

Kardiamond.6952:

Hi all,

I started using the fear of death trait for some days just for the fun of it. To those that are too lazy to check it, it’s the trait that cast an AoE fear when you are downed.

I didn’t do any specific test yet, but in WvW it happen often that my fear doesn’t seems to go off.

I get downed, have 3 people around me without stability, and nothing happens. Sometime only one of them goes running, other aren’t affected. Sometime they all run in fear.

I try to do a stability check, they don’t seem to have it. It’s not on cooldown as I rarely get downed twice in 90 second. :P

Is it sharing cooldown Reaper’s Protection (fear on CC 90 sec CD)?

Also, 1 sec fear on downed state seems a bit lackluster if you ask me, even AoE. Why?
I know, 1 sec fear isn’t bad to buy some time when you got downed. The issue is the timing. Because the fear seems to cast while you are stil invulnerable from getting downed. So the fear finish, right in time for them to start stomping you.

I have 2 sec fear duration from traits/food, and by the time I can see my Downedstats UI, the fear duration is nearly over.

So from this trait, I have like 0.5 sec more in downstate. And for that, I have to spend traits in fear duration, food and maybe rune. When it works..

What do you guys think?

I don’t think this trait is very good as it stands right now, but occasionally I see it used in WvW in narrow places and there it is absolutely devastating. The other night I watched a party made it rain lootbags after tagging another party on a high ledge then being downed.

Ahahah, yeah a very situational case. :P

I had taken this as a part of the fear build I am running right now is sort of a filler, an extra 2 second aoe fear when i really don’t need anymore fear.

I do however believe now that you have said it, that it must be sharing a cooldown with reapers protection. I noticed it go off MAYBE once or twice the entire night. Since most of my fights have reapers protection going off everytime it is up, it would make sense.

Considering Anet and their track record with on-X effect’s sharing cooldown it wouldn’t be shocking. I may convince on of my warrior friends to come test this in PVP with me

I think Reapers Protection also shares a cooldown with our downed#2 fear.

@Rennoko

It would be horrible, as I’m also trying a Fear build for fun and I wanted as many fear source as possible.

But If Reaper Protection and Fear of death share the same CD, it’s useless. I wouldn’t want my Reaper protection to be on CD because my Fear of death was used 90 sec ago.

4 sec fear on CC wasted for a 2 sec fear on downed state.

Try it with your friend please, and come back with result! I will switch to 15% cd reduction on DS if it’s the case.

@Alanis

I don’t think so, tho 1-2 month ago I remember having my downed state fear on CD as soon as I got downed, before even using it. But it didn’t happen since I respected fear, 2 days ago.

Kardiamond.6952:

@Rennoko

It would be horrible, as I’m also trying a Fear build for fun and I wanted as many fear source as possible.

But If Reaper Protection and Fear of death share the same CD, it’s useless. I wouldn’t want my Reaper protection to be on CD because my Fear of death was used 90 sec ago.

4 sec fear on CC wasted for a 2 sec fear on downed state.

Try it with your friend please, and come back with result! I will switch to 15% cd reduction on DS if it’s the case.

@Alanis

I don’t think so, tho 1-2 month ago I remember having my downed state fear on CD as soon as I got downed, before even using it. But it didn’t happen since I respected fear, 2 days ago.

Yah, but it is still, IMHO, worth keeping Reapers Protection. I think the shared-cooldown is the 10s cooldown from the downed ability.

FWIW- I use the CD reduction trait, which I think is superior anyway.

Okay, so much for perception being accurate.

Reaper’s protection and Fear of Death do NOT share a cooldown.

Just tested in the Mists against the mesmer NPC, both fears went off within 10 seconds of each other. I did not happen to notice if Reaper’s protection sets a 10 second cooldown to the downed state fear, but that would be very minor for me as hopefully I am not going down in 10 seconds of Reaper’s prot. proccing.

So false alarm here… Not sure why it seems like the downed state fear isn’t going off as often, possibly the range is just not far enough.

Rennoko.5731:

Okay, so much for perception being accurate.

Reaper’s protection and Fear of Death do NOT share a cooldown.

Just tested in the Mists against the mesmer NPC, both fears went off within 10 seconds of each other. I did not happen to notice if Reaper’s protection sets a 10 second cooldown to the downed state fear, but that would be very minor for me as hopefully I am not going down in 10 seconds of Reaper’s prot. proccing.

So false alarm here… Not sure why it seems like the downed state fear isn’t going off as often, possibly the range is just not far enough.

Thans for taking the time to confirm this.

I sort of question what downed state fear actually gets you. Does anyone have any ideas that don’t involve cliff ledges? With a condition damage build, how hard does damage-on-fear tick for?

@Alanis

I wouldn’t remove Reapers protection, I would remove Fear of Death.

And Yeah I wasn’t sure between CD reduction and Fear of death. I use both. I just take fear of death because of the “fear build” gimmick.

KirinDave.6451:

Rennoko.5731:

Okay, so much for perception being accurate.

Reaper’s protection and Fear of Death do NOT share a cooldown.

Just tested in the Mists against the mesmer NPC, both fears went off within 10 seconds of each other. I did not happen to notice if Reaper’s protection sets a 10 second cooldown to the downed state fear, but that would be very minor for me as hopefully I am not going down in 10 seconds of Reaper’s prot. proccing.

So false alarm here… Not sure why it seems like the downed state fear isn’t going off as often, possibly the range is just not far enough.

Thans for taking the time to confirm this.

I sort of question what downed state fear actually gets you. Does anyone have any ideas that don’t involve cliff ledges? With a condition damage build, how hard does damage-on-fear tick for?

It is 30% Malice and 362 base dmg per tick.

I’d still rather take the DS ability cooldown reduction over anything I’d get while downed.

alanis.6094:

KirinDave.6451:

Rennoko.5731:

Okay, so much for perception being accurate.

Reaper’s protection and Fear of Death do NOT share a cooldown.

Just tested in the Mists against the mesmer NPC, both fears went off within 10 seconds of each other. I did not happen to notice if Reaper’s protection sets a 10 second cooldown to the downed state fear, but that would be very minor for me as hopefully I am not going down in 10 seconds of Reaper’s prot. proccing.

So false alarm here… Not sure why it seems like the downed state fear isn’t going off as often, possibly the range is just not far enough.

Thans for taking the time to confirm this.

I sort of question what downed state fear actually gets you. Does anyone have any ideas that don’t involve cliff ledges? With a condition damage build, how hard does damage-on-fear tick for?

It is 30% Malice and 362 base dmg per tick.

I’d still rather take the DS ability cooldown reduction over anything I’d get while downed.

The gw2 wiki says it’s 120 + 0.15c. I guess that’s wrong if you’re saying it’s 362 base. Do we have a formula?

KirinDave.6451:

Rennoko.5731:

Okay, so much for perception being accurate.

Reaper’s protection and Fear of Death do NOT share a cooldown.

Just tested in the Mists against the mesmer NPC, both fears went off within 10 seconds of each other. I did not happen to notice if Reaper’s protection sets a 10 second cooldown to the downed state fear, but that would be very minor for me as hopefully I am not going down in 10 seconds of Reaper’s prot. proccing.

So false alarm here… Not sure why it seems like the downed state fear isn’t going off as often, possibly the range is just not far enough.

Thans for taking the time to confirm this.

I sort of question what downed state fear actually gets you. Does anyone have any ideas that don’t involve cliff ledges? With a condition damage build, how hard does damage-on-fear tick for?

@Rennoko

Thank you good sir for the testing. Really cool from you! I don’t know if it’s the range. But some people were melee range to me and it didn’t seem to go off. I’m wondering if it’s the same mecanism as reaper mark. It should.

@KirinDave

My build is condition heavy, but I don’t have the max condition damage yet.

Last time I checked, my fear was hiting for around 800-900 damage a tick. That’s really good damage, as Reapers Protection hit for around 3.2k condition damage when it goes off.

Fear of death isn’t that useful really. it does around 1.6k damage, and doesn’t work most of the time. It only use is letting you sruvive 1 sec longer if you are lucky.

I just love sending people in fear when they finally get me 4-5 vs 1.

KirinDave.6451:

alanis.6094:

KirinDave.6451:

Rennoko.5731:

Okay, so much for perception being accurate.

Reaper’s protection and Fear of Death do NOT share a cooldown.

Just tested in the Mists against the mesmer NPC, both fears went off within 10 seconds of each other. I did not happen to notice if Reaper’s protection sets a 10 second cooldown to the downed state fear, but that would be very minor for me as hopefully I am not going down in 10 seconds of Reaper’s prot. proccing.

So false alarm here… Not sure why it seems like the downed state fear isn’t going off as often, possibly the range is just not far enough.

Thans for taking the time to confirm this.

I sort of question what downed state fear actually gets you. Does anyone have any ideas that don’t involve cliff ledges? With a condition damage build, how hard does damage-on-fear tick for?

It is 30% Malice and 362 base dmg per tick.

I’d still rather take the DS ability cooldown reduction over anything I’d get while downed.

The gw2 wiki says it’s 120 + 0.15c. I guess that’s wrong if you’re saying it’s 362 base. Do we have a formula?

Yes, we have a formula. It is 30% Malice and 362 base dmg per tick.

I’m lost a bit, what is 30% malice? Am I missing something?

Malice = condition damage?

Kardiamond.6952:

I’m lost a bit, what is 30% malice? Am I missing something?

Malice = condition damage?

Correct.

So yeah your formula seems about right.

Kardiamond.6952:

So yeah your formula seems about right.

More discussion of it, and the person that figured out/posted the formula, was found here.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Spite-line-worth-it-for-condition-mancers/first

Wow, that’s sort of crazy. Let’s say a modest 800 condition damage at L80, fear + 5 stacks of bleed + poison is 1.1k dps, passively. For fears longer than 1s, that ends fights.

KirinDave.6451:

Wow, that’s sort of crazy. Let’s say a modest 800 condition damage at L80, fear + 5 stacks of bleed + poison is 1.1k dps, passively. For fears longer than 1s, that ends fights.

What enemy do you fight that has only 1,100 – 2,200 HP?

KirinDave.6451:

Wow, that’s sort of crazy. Let’s say a modest 800 condition damage at L80, fear + 5 stacks of bleed + poison is 1.1k dps, passively. For fears longer than 1s, that ends fights.

I don’t see how it would end the fight?

I wish it was that easy

But since I switched from power to condition, it seems to be pretty situation. On some class/build, it will work pretty well. Especially in group fight when you use epidemic.

But again others, like Powermancer, Guardian, P/D thief, DD Elem, Cat Engineer and some others, you will hit like a wet noddle. Those guys have too many heal/condition remover.

Kardiamond.6952:

KirinDave.6451:

Wow, that’s sort of crazy. Let’s say a modest 800 condition damage at L80, fear + 5 stacks of bleed + poison is 1.1k dps, passively. For fears longer than 1s, that ends fights.

I don’t see how it would end the fight?

I wish it was that easy

But since I switched from power to condition, it seems to be pretty situation. On some class/build, it will work pretty well. Especially in group fight when you use epidemic.

But again others, like Powermancer, Guardian, P/D thief, DD Elem, Cat Engineer and some others, you will hit like a wet noddle. Those guys have too many heal/condition remover.

Tell that to Wild Bill as Sophitia1. Very, very, very few people in WvW run with condition clears (for a variety of reasons). As such, there have been a class of very successful thief that uses cleverness, skill, stealth, and a build that maintains steady bleed pressure and relatively weak (1k/strike) direct damage. And they absolutely melt groups, even with only 5-7 bleed stacks. They’re just patient and they don’t show vidoes against people with great condition clear and reversal (which I think they tend to stalemate against, since it’s really hard to catch a stealth-heavy thief who wants to run).

The basic principle is difficult for a Necro to apply because they cannot play the waiting game as easily as a thief. However, that doesn’t mean it’s impossible. With a very high toughness and vit and condition damage, it’s not impossible.

alanis.6094:

KirinDave.6451:

Wow, that’s sort of crazy. Let’s say a modest 800 condition damage at L80, fear + 5 stacks of bleed + poison is 1.1k dps, passively. For fears longer than 1s, that ends fights.

What enemy do you fight that has only 1,100 – 2,200 HP?

The kind I have already been engaging with for awhile? Unless you get zerged or some totally absurd thief GC comes along, how often do you NOT get an enemy below 50%? 30%?

If you are downed and the enemy is not similarly closed to being downed, either you were sorely outplayed or sorely outclassed. Traits aren’t going to fix that unless your trait selection is absolute rubbish.

cleverness?

Wild Bill build is pretty straight forward, and require you to have good movement and not missing your C&D.

I saw how he explained how it was not easy to accomplish, and I still fail to see how it’s more complex then any other build. I tried it for a while and it was actually really boring, tho it was effective.

This thief build is the perfect exemple of the attrition class. This is what a necromancer should do. We are supose to be the attrition classe.

I have condition clear, I’m a necro after all. And even with 3 condition cleaner, a good P/D thief will win most of the time vs me. I have to be timed and dodge their C&D (without any vigor source). But at the same time, I can’t build condition on them because they have so many condition cleaner on that build.

They usually outlast me. Even If I’m cond/vitality/thought heavy geared. I usually can’t stack condition as consistant as them.

Kardiamond.6952:

cleverness?

Wild Bill build is pretty straight forward, and require you to have good movement and not missing your C&D.

I saw how he explained how it was not easy to accomplish, and I still fail to see how it’s more complex then any other build. I tried it for a while and it was actually really boring, tho it was effective.

Most of his cleverness is in fights vs mesmers and other thieves. And in general a very good positional, situational, and cooldown awareness. Lots of people try and play that build and fail to do it as well.

Kardiamond.6952:

I have condition clear, I’m a necro after all. And even with 3 condition cleaner, a good P/D thief will win most of the time vs me. I have to be timed and dodge their C&D (without any vigor source). But at the same time, I can’t build condition on them because they have so many condition cleaner on that build.

Haven’t you heard? Thieves deserve to have it easier than every other class because their glass cannons are squishy. And also, uh… deathshroud? And nevermind that Elementalists are even more squishy because they have a bunker build they could decide to play.

Kardiamond.6952:

They usually outlast me. Even If I’m cond/vitality/thought heavy geared. I usually can’t stack condition as consistant as them.

Stealth thieves are probably brokenly strong right now. That’s not what this thread is about though.

The thread is about asking, “Could a necro adopt a similar strategy if fear was added in the mix?” Because I seldom see people try that and the formula for fear damage is just bonkers.

Yeah Thief deserve perma vigor, best mobility, leather armor, stealth ect. because they have 12k hp. Poor thief.

But yeah, If I ever master Death Shroud, I should be able to defeat good P/D Thief. :P

Our “spammable” fear are too short to give us the chance of burning somoene with our condition will they are CC’ed. I use fear when I know my ennemy is about to heal.

Kardiamond.6952:

Yeah Thief deserve perma vigor, best mobility, leather armor, stealth ect. because they have 12k hp. Poor thief.

But yeah, If I ever master Death Shroud, I should be able to defeat good P/D Thief. :P

Our “spammable” fear are too short to give us the chance of burning somoene with our condition will they are CC’ed. I use fear when I know my ennemy is about to heal.

My necro is not yet fully grown, but my guildmates who have L80 necros tell me that reaper’s mark and chillblains really mess with those p/d thieves darting in to try and tag you with stealth, and you can use the mark pop as a cue to get ready to dodge.

Kardiamond.6952:

cleverness?

Wild Bill build is pretty straight forward, and require you to have good movement and not missing your C&D.

I saw how he explained how it was not easy to accomplish, and I still fail to see how it’s more complex then any other build. I tried it for a while and it was actually really boring, tho it was effective.

This thief build is the perfect exemple of the attrition class. This is what a necromancer should do. We are supose to be the attrition classe.

I have condition clear, I’m a necro after all. And even with 3 condition cleaner, a good P/D thief will win most of the time vs me. I have to be timed and dodge their C&D (without any vigor source). But at the same time, I can’t build condition on them because they have so many condition cleaner on that build.

They usually outlast me. Even If I’m cond/vitality/thought heavy geared. I usually can’t stack condition as consistant as them.

P/D thief was a big issue for me for a while, but once I started using a fear/terror build, I destroyed several of them over the weekend. A few things that helped…

-I hope you are saving your PM, and not just blindly using it on-cooldown. I normally wait for 7-8 stacks of bleed prior to using this.

-Despite the condition transfer on dagger off-hand, I much prefer the focus. The life force generation is too good for me to pass up. With that, use FoC every cooldown.

-Don’t life blast at all, but use the fear judiciously. 2s of CC and the extra 1600-1800 damage is pretty nice.

-Reaper’s protection is very strong against a stolen fear.

Note: this is really only good for WvW, as you can’t get the duration needed in sPvP without a lot of compromises.

@Alanis
@KirinDave

Thanks for the tips! Been playing a Powermancer fort like 3-4 month, but I still very new to condimancer. I kick most people kitten but P/D are really a pain in the kitten

Will try those tips!

The PM tips, I might waste it too soon. And you use reaper mark right away? or you wai for them to stealth?

Or you keep them to stack DS fear and Reaper mark togheter so they can’t heal when they are getting low hp.

Kardiamond.6952:

@Alanis
@KirinDave

Thanks for the tips! Been playing a Powermancer fort like 3-4 month, but I still very new to condimancer. I kick most people kitten but P/D are really a pain in the kitten

Will try those tips!

The PM tips, I might waste it too soon. And you use reaper mark right away? or you wai for them to stealth?

Or you keep them to stack DS fear and Reaper mark togheter so they can’t heal when they are getting low hp.

If you can keep poison applied when they heal, then let them heal I say. This is something you learn when you play a pistol engineer; sometimes even with a ton of knockback it’s better to let them blow a heal midway through the fight with poison applied so you can have an interrupt handy for the second heal. Especially if you’re chilling as well.

Kardiamond.6952:

@Alanis
@KirinDave

Thanks for the tips! Been playing a Powermancer fort like 3-4 month, but I still very new to condimancer. I kick most people kitten but P/D are really a pain in the kitten

Will try those tips!

The PM tips, I might waste it too soon. And you use reaper mark right away? or you wai for them to stealth?

Or you keep them to stack DS fear and Reaper mark togheter so they can’t heal when they are getting low hp.

Sometimes I RM ontop of them near the onset, sometimes I just place it under myself. I don’t really have a rhyme or reason, just depends on how the fight is going. If I can get several stacks of bleeds on him, I’ll often try to double-fear him then, in hopes that it gives him less time to clear them.

@KirinDave

Yeah but the issue with Thief, is that Hide in Shadow (the heal that every thief use) also cure Bleed, Poison and Burn. So keeping poison on them is actually useless

Kardiamond.6952:

@KirinDave

Yeah but the issue with Thief, is that Hide in Shadow (the heal that every thief use) also cure Bleed, Poison and Burn. So keeping poison on them is actually useless

Last time I experimented, it cured the poison after the heal and still reduced the heal amount. I am not sure if this was a bug or not. Is it still this way?

Can you try it again? I asked a thief and he told me otherwise, but it’s been a long time ago.

Also the wiki(I know unreliable) says it remove the condition before healing.

And our Consume condition also consume conditin before healing.

I will try to test it when I get home too.